[Spoiler] Dev Workshop: New Mods Part 2!

[Caligran]

First of all, thank you SO much for the Riven mods- they are definitely a breath of life to this game, and I like most everything about them. I will resist the temptation to preach the Karak master race. I feel as well that some of them were indeed exceedingly powerful for their weapon class *cough* Tonkor, Zarr *cough*. I really appreciate this change, and am wondering whether or not you could look into changing some restrictions for unveiling- I've recently been talking to some newer players who have just finished the War Within, but get challenges that they 'cannot' complete, with the main criminal involving headshots during movement, such as aim-glides or sliding. I don't know if there is a great way to solve this problem, but I think that having the option to spend Kuva to reduce the future MR cap of a Riven mod to decrease the unveiling challenge difficulty (and in turn the power level of the Riven Mod) would be a really good change- it would provide some progression (outside of the Trade market) to players with Riven Mods, while also making them more easily 'accessible' to lower MR players.

[----Fenrir----]

On 17.11.2016 at 6:33 PM, AscendingDusk said:

“Riven Disposition”

So, how will this scale as time goes on? Braton for example I think used to be considered a top tier weapon. Now its’s mediocre. The game evolves and some weapons are simply outdated. So, what happens when a more powerful weapon exceeds today’s Soma or Simulor in the niches? What happens if damage changes negatively affect some of these weapons? Will these weapons gain better riven mods to make up for the changes? And will that affect existing or only new riven mods fitted for those weapons.

Do not forget possible nerfes or buffes in the future. Not to mention the issue with certain weapons having different variants with huge gaps in strength. For example I got a decent Cernos riven mod after 2 re-rolls. Not the best possible but quiet good (+~120% crit damage/ +106% toxin damage/ -30% attack speed). How is that mod gonna be changed? I mean there is a Cernos Prime coming up that will likely be quiet good. The Rakta Cernos is also already quiet good. Yet there is also the normal Cernos which is pretty meh. Which of those will the mod be balanced for?

This system is a huge mess and trying to balance it like this will simple just cause even more balancing issues and probably make a lot of people very unhappy with DE.

Edited November 18, 2016 by ----Fenrir----

[Volinus7]

devstream 83

"Our goal whether you agree with it or not"

"Is to give new lives to old stuffs"

Why don't you just buff the weapons? You didn't add any new weapon mechanics on riven mods, they're just constant value offsets.

They're unnecessary if you just buff weapon stats directly.

 

Weapon progression is separated and becomes staircase instead of linear because of riven mods.

Instead of previous mods that can be used on all weapons, these mods are locked with specific weapons only. If you want this specific "bad" weapon to be "good", riven is necessary right? And your effort on this specific weapon cannot be used on other weapons, this discourages people from trying to perfect various types of weapons they'd rather focus on few most powerful meta again whether riven creates new meta or not. 

Players grind mandatory mods from r-0 to max rank this is where linearity ends, next you need to climb the RNG staircase to make this bad weapon become good.

 

DE ANSWER me please why do you have to make it looks worse for players.

Which part of riven mod properties makes sense?

Edited November 18, 2016 by Volinus7

[-VG-Tahabata]

Please Fix this, Stats dont meet the weapon it is a waste of cycle and kuva.

Edited November 19, 2016 by -VG-Tahabata
typo

[Death_Master_]

Why making rivens for good weapons bad?

No matter how good is riven mod on trashy weapon it won't bring it to life from a bin, it will just annoy people of how unfair it becomes.

Actually good weapons need a huge buff too to make them better for things like endless missions and sorties.

[ChaellExE]

On 11/17/2016 at 1:30 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

RNG Mods in Warframe!?
We should certainly take some time to speak to the doom that RNG Mods being a sign of nefarious dealings. While it may pre-date many accounts, Warframe already had RNG Mods in the game. In fact RNG Mods used to be the only type of Mod you could find for Upgrading your gear. We switched to a static Mod system in Update 7, and now 12 Major Updates later we are revisiting the concept with completely different intentions: an End-Game option rather than the only path. 

If what you say is true, there better be a better way of acquiring them. The current way makes them "special" so that these kind of dealings will happen for sure.

And also DE why advance warframe to go back to the way it was before it became what we now define warframe?

[Finedaible]

Question: What do the Mastery requirements mean about the mod's stats? Do they increase the higher the Mastery? Also, what is the max Mastery level a Riven mod can be?

[Virsalus]

How are riven mods supposed to be an endgame thing when the only thing you can do to get them is the daily sortie? Is that supposed to keep players involved?

[JohnCarraway]

Can anyone explain me please. With the new changes. Will the stats for rifles like soma/simulator/tancor be changed on existing mods,or I'm wrong?

Thanks in advance.

[aerosoul1337]

We need shotgun riven mods instead of sentinel weapon ones =(

[Berserkerkitten]

Thanks for tweaking them! This still isn't suuuuuper relevant to the weapon it's for, but it's a lot better than what I used to get. ♥

 

[Armetage]

I understand that you want people to use different weapons and a wider verity of weapons but making RNG mods is not the way.  Just make the existing weapons that are not being used better.  RNG is not fun.  On top of that each riven mod will have an ideal set of stats that people are going to want because it will be the best numerically.  On top of that if someone has a slightly better version of that ideal mod there weapon is just better.  If my Riven mod has 100% crit and someone else has one with 101% crit then that one is better by 1% even if every other stat on the mod is the same there mod is still better.  If DE insist on keeping some version of this system in the game there are much better ways of doing it.

1.  Let us pick witch stats get re-rolled and witch don't.

2a.  Let us add Kuva to existing stats to push them to what ever is the potential max for that stat.

2b.  Alternatively have the stat %s be fixed per weapon type.

Doing this will let all players get the best version of a mod without hoping for a lucky roll.  I have bad luck, to the point if it was not for bad luck i would have none at all, so this system to me seems like the worst thing ever.  For now this does not affect me directly because I use shotguns as my primary weapon but it gives me pause.  With Valkyr Prime being released, one of my favorite frames, should I keep investing time and money in a game that is implementing a system that could be the death nail for me personalty.  Everything in the game up to this point can be obtained with hard work and time but with riven mods that is not the case.  No matter how much time and effort I put in I may never get the "perfect roll" that I am looking for.  In the end the riven system seems more like a bottomless pit of grind then a fun system.  On top of that with the trading system it will have people paying high amounts of plat for the perfect riven mod.

I don't think the system will ever be good but I do think it can be made tolerable with enough changes.  In closing I think if a player puts in effort to get resources spending those resources should always net the player a positive reward in some way, shape, or form.  At current the Riven system is just a sink for time and effort for only a slim luck based chance at a useful reward. 

[Snake]

13 minutes ago, Armetage said:

1.  Let us pick witch stats get re-rolled and witch don't.

Yes -- Let us pick which stat gets re-rolled and which doesn't.

I do you like where this is going though - feels like a step in the right direction. Thanks for the update DE.

Edited November 19, 2016 by 5nak3Doctor

[Zebiko]

So Disposition. Does it change for person to person or just overall ranking in popularity of whole community?

[Rurabomber]

Riven mods are just TOO random. Since they were released, I've spent more than 120 000 kuva on rerolling many different mods. I got lucky 3 times, but it was still far from being a perfect roll. Because of that, I just sold those mods for a few thousands of platinum (5700 to be exact) to people who are probably a bit angry right now, because the stats were just nerfed in the last hotfix. 

Meanwhile, the mods I kept are getting too expensive to reroll and still have crappy stats. Nobody will want to buy them (too many rerolls), and I will certainly not want to keep them, because of the 15 riven mod cap......

This whole system is a good idea, but I bet that executing it PROPERLY would take a lot more effort than the whole "Damage 3.0" rework - if it ever gets introduced. I agree with people saying that right now this system is a bottomless pit of RNG and in the long run is simply not fun.

[Snake]

How can you tell the Disposition of a mod in Trade chat? Also it only shows the Disposition in arsenal when its on the weapon not in the Mod menu that I can see.

Can Disposition be changed or leveled?

Edited November 19, 2016 by 5nak3Doctor

[HyokaChan]

I think Punch through riven modifiers should be a straight + x meters and not %, because most weapons don't even have punch through to begin with, so 1 or 100% of 0 is still 0.

[motorfirebox]

What I'm wondering is, is the Riven Disposition dynamic? So for instance, does the Paris have a different disposition from the Paris Prime? So would a Riven mod for the Paris (equippable on both the Paris and the Paris Prime) would have different stats depending on which you equipped it on? Because while a full-strength Riven mod is almost certainly overpowered for the Paris Prime, it's probably not on a stock Paris.

Edited November 19, 2016 by motorfirebox

[Chrif1992]

On 17/11/2016 at 11:30 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Accessing Kuva Siphons is being experimented with to not be a random chance in a tileset, but rather a guaranteed spawn on planets when the Fortress is in the vicinity (like Fomorians and Negators) with a possible cooldown. To be determined!

Big yes to this, but the cool down would be far too annoying.

If it is on a player cool down it would be difficult to make farming parties which would ruin a community aspect of kuva farming. I like joining randoms and sticking with them for a few missions then moving onto another set of people.

Perhaps if it was made like a void fissure alert I would be happy. It pops up for 30 minutes on a planet then takes a break and then pops up maybe an hour after it expired. This would limit the amount of farm people get but also allows for us to make kuva farming parties

[Tomppak]

On 17.11.2016 at 2:30 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Cycle 1: 900
Cycle 2: 1000
Cycle 3: 1200
Cycle 4: 1400
Cycle 5: 1700
Cycle 6: 2000
Cycle 7: 2350
Cycle 8: 2750
Cycle 9: 3200
Cycle 10: 3600

Is there a reason why the increase per cycle is so counter intuitive? Currently, it's:

900
+100
+200
+200
+300
+300
+350
+400
+450
+400
.... "Continues each cycle, no cap" -> Continues how? There's no clear rule on how it'll continue?

 

[nonscience]

Short version :

Thanks DE, this revised version is far better than the original one. Making "old" weapons usable again on high end of the game is great (was already using them anyway, but this makes them even more enjoyable).

And as for the people asking "why not just boost the old weapons?".
What's the point of boosting them? We need a ladder to climb the ranks and reasons to try new arsenal.

[ACorpse]

On 17/11/2016 at 1:32 PM, Machine_Head said:

excellent im looking forward to these changes but will you enable another way for riven mods to be obtained outside sorties.

as some of us (myself included) cant get a good team for sorties

 

Team's not a problem, I can carry any sonofa through sorties. It's the RNG that hoses me. I'm 0 for 6 on riven chances so far. Endo, endo everywhere, when I already have 500k saved up. :(

[Otakuwolf]

I hope i won't sound too critic but riven cycling cost should be static, there is no good reason to make it increase with every roll.

If that's a mechanical way to "encourage" (i'd say "force") me to play with a certain set of stats on a riven mod i'd say that is instead making me not bother anymore after the first two or three rolls and try to drop a better one from sorties.

[alpine]

Hi,

I'm actually a bit sad, that the challenges are gone. The remaining part is, for me personally, not very attractive. We have a sortie RNG wall to get access to the system in the first place, one challenge to reveal the mod and a Kuva grind for a simple slot machine. Farming the Kuva is currently the most interesting part of the loop for me, since it's a new thing you can play around with. And of course I'm excited to play around with stupid weapon/mod combinations, but...I usually abandon systems after a short time, when the RNG is too heavy and I regularly get "rewarded" with blanks. This currently includes the sorties.

So to not ruin warframe for me, I have to wait until i can get some cheap untouched rivens on the market/from clan-members *sigh*

[AcceptYourDeath]

Very happy with the changes so far and what seems very likely being implemented in the nearest future. I view Riven now as a way for me as a player to take "buffing" in my own hands within a reasonable "range." For weapons I care.

However I still have 2 major concerns. I am not entirely sure with the current status on these insane negative stats. In particular minus overall-damage. It seems as if they still take place and I haven`t picked up anything from DE on this. If i am not mistaken there is literally no way to counterbalance examples like -187%. Based on that this is as far as I am concerned not up to debate whatsoever. A counterbalance on riven rendering all mods and a weapon strictly useless with its weight? Am I missing something here? 

I am fine with negative stats in general, but not with this extremes no matter any changes next to it to the system. It feels like a middle finger, it is a middle finger and I am not gonna have it, thanks very much :oP Even if rerolling would be for free, it`s funny the first couple of times, not so much later on. "Haha yeah -180% - I am not laughing oO"

Please if anybody could comment on this :o) What is the current state exactly with negative overall-damage (others)?                 

My other cocern is with the grind, which had a noticeable reduction already, good decision! While it makes sense to prevent perfect soma-mods flooding the game in no time I feel like the game should keep track of a general investment with riven mods (account based on an individiual player level). If I am working on my 20th riven mod at some point in the future it would be really really really good to get some kind of discount? 

I mean it probably will go in these directions:

"Hey you are rerolling your 10th mod?" 

"YEAH love it :D" 

"Ok you know what? 800 from now on!"

"YAAAAY^^"

"Uhhhhh still on it? Nice ....20th riven now" 

"Jap :o)"

"500 ;o)"

OR

"Pfffffff ....uhmmm....well I guess not .....Project 20 canceled"

Sure 20 riven mods is a far stretch at the moment, but it will become a thing on secondarys, warframes? melee etc. so some stepping stone rather sooner then later adressing this would be nice to see.

If not a "discount" or overall progression-tracking with a relief in mind maybe riven disposition could reflect the amount of Kuva? Top tier expensive, decent weapons less expensive, bottom tier cheap!