Login Rewards kind of unattainable for new players

[-Trey-]

[Hypernaut1]

Ultimately DE is going to decide what they want to do.... And seeing that the current system is already a rework and seems to be working heavily in their favor, I doubt they even consider changing it.

The message from those that are complaining seem to be "I don't have the patience orv want to commit to your game for X number of days. Give me those 600 day rewards now!" I don't see how that's a convincing argument for retention.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Ultimately DE is going to decide what they want to do.... And seeing that the current system is already a rework and seems to be working heavily in their favor, I doubt they even consider changing it.

The message from those that are complaining seem to be "I don't want have the patience orv want to commit to your game for X number of days" I don't see how that's a convincing argument for retention.

I give up.

Seriously. 

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

The reason Primed Shred is a 600 day reward is because people have reached the 600 day mark.... Do you want them to STOP rewarding people because the new players are not there yet? This is the one small thing in the game that doesn't cater to new players.... Im honestly tired of them catering to only new players, iv been on and off this game for nearly 4 years now, im also a founder and MR 24.... but there is very little that benefits me. But you look at Sorties... all the rewards are beneficial to primarily new players, Alerts? New players, Unvaulting Primes... New players. 

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Ultimately DE is going to decide what they want to do.... And seeing that the current system is already a rework and seems to be working heavily in their favor, I doubt they even consider changing it.

The message from those that are complaining seem to be "I don't have the patience orv want to commit to your game for X number of days. Give me those 600 day rewards now!" I don't see how that's a convincing argument for retention.

While that argument is understandable.

How are newer players ever going to keep up with the Login Reward System if it keeps getting added onto, to the point where they're three or four years behind everybody?

I'm not saying they should get the same Rewards any easier, but the Login Rewards should probably have a cap-off at some point before the gap between us get's even more ridiculous.

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, PureIcarus said:

The reason Primed Shred is a 600 day reward is because people have reached the 600 day mark.... Do you want them to STOP rewarding people because the new players are not there yet? This is the one small thing in the game that doesn't cater to new players.... Im honestly tired of them catering to only new players, iv been on and off this game for nearly 4 years now, im also a founder and MR 24.... but there is very little that benefits me. But you look at Sorties... all the rewards are beneficial to primarily new players, Alerts? New players, Unvaulting Primes... New players. 

Plains of Eidelon seems to be mainly early new player content too. While vets probably only get that one boss to grind over and over at night. I'm kind of disappointed that they insist on keeping it a playground for low level content..... 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said:

While that argument is understandable.

How are newer players ever going to keep up with the Login Reward System if it keeps getting added onto, to the point where they're three or four years behind everybody?

I'm not saying they should get the same Rewards any easier, but the Login Rewards should probably have a cap-off at some point before the gap between us get's even more ridiculous.

I would assume that DE will decide a practical point at where most vet players stop playing, then just fill in milestone's with a generic repeating reward. I would think they would stop at 600, but I have no idea what their data looks like. 

I Will agree that they should probably stop at some point.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I would assume that DE will decide a practical point at where most vet players stop playing, then just fill in milestone's with a generic repeating reward. I would think they would stop at 600, but I have no idea what their data looks like. 

I Will agree that they should probably stop at some point.

If analytics show that a higher % of tenured players continue to invest real $ in the game, long-term login rewards will continue.

[Sloan441]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said:

How are newer players ever going to keep up with the Login Reward System if it keeps getting added onto, to the point where they're three or four years behind everybody?

What is offered in the login rewards system is perfectly available to anyone; you just have to keep logging in. If you do, you'll get whatever is offered.

Don't worry about what others are doing. It's really none of your concern. Your concern should be with what you can attain. Best get started.

 

 

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

9 hours ago, Sloan441 said:

What is offered in the login rewards system is perfectly available to anyone; you just have to keep logging in. If you do, you'll get whatever is offered.

Don't worry about what others are doing. It's really none of your concern. Your concern should be with what you can attain. Best get started.

 

 

Yes, but if the Login Rewards keep getting added on to, newer players will eventually never be able to reach the same items others have in a decent time frame. Three to four years of distance is a bit much for anyone, and I sincerely doubt most players will stick around for that long . I'm not saying they should get it any easier, they should take the same amount of time we have. Yet the Rewards should eventually stop at some point (at least when it comes to Mastery items), so that they can start to catch up to us in that regard. Maybe making it so we just start to receive Cosmetics afterwards and not items tied to Mastery would work for me. I don't mind that we get Primed Mods too, since they're just a bit of extra power creep that isn't necessary at all, but is just nice to have and isn't affected by Mastery. It's not a sweet weapon tied to a gating system wherein if you don't have enough Mastery, you can't access certain things. 

A distance between players in terms of promotions, in-game cosmetics or materials is expected when someone's been playing for far longer than you have. You really can't stop something like that, but when it comes to Mastery and cool weapons, I'd like an end to the system to a certain extent. Veteran players who stick with the game for a long time will get Primed Mods and exclusive Cosmetics, while newer players will still have to wait out the system for their Mastery, but will only have to play for about a year and a half to get all the Mastery possible in the system, and will then proceed to get what other Veterans get. Having to wait two years or more seems a bit ridiculous to me.

[Troll_Logic]

16 hours ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said:

How are newer players ever going to keep up with the Login Reward System if it keeps getting added onto, to the point where they're three or four years behind everybody?

So the players who have been loyally logging in for three or four years shouldn't have any rewards for that time?

[(PSN)TheHypothes]

I think the main point here is looking at it as time goes forward. I've been playing for years, and I took some time off and fell behind, but I don't really care. I'm still not that far behind, so maintaining my logins isn't an issue.

 

What -IS- the issue is players just now starting out at any given point from now going forward. The longer it takes someone to finally discover the game, the more insurmountable the logins become. Eventually we could be looking at new people having to do 1000 logins for rewards other players are enjoying. It'll eventually become impossible. 

 

Others have already presented what I consider the correct solution as well. At SOME POINT, rewards that directly impact game systems, like Mods or MR, should stop, and start offering things like exclusive cosmetics (maybe even special daily login Deluxe Skins and the like). Maybe not 600, maybe not 700, who knows what's a good cutoff right now, but eventually it'll have to or risk turning new players off, and that's really not good for anyone.

 

I can personally vouch for not getting into other games at all because I knew how much catch-up work I'd have to do to play with friends. It's still a game at the end of the day, not a job.

[Knight_Ex]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Vagnar said:

I think the main point here is looking at it as time goes forward. I've been playing for years, and I took some time off and fell behind, but I don't really care. I'm still not that far behind, so maintaining my logins isn't an issue.

 

What -IS- the issue is players just now starting out at any given point from now going forward. The longer it takes someone to finally discover the game, the more insurmountable the logins become. Eventually we could be looking at new people having to do 1000 logins for rewards other players are enjoying. It'll eventually become impossible. 

 

Others have already presented what I consider the correct solution as well. At SOME POINT, rewards that directly impact game systems, like Mods or MR, should stop, and start offering things like exclusive cosmetics (maybe even special daily login Deluxe Skins and the like). Maybe not 600, maybe not 700, who knows what's a good cutoff right now, but eventually it'll have to or risk turning new players off, and that's really not good for anyone.

 

I can personally vouch for not getting into other games at all because I knew how much catch-up work I'd have to do to play with friends. It's still a game at the end of the day, not a job.

Why are you talking like the login rewards are a requirement to enjoy the game, they are NOT, a person can just function fine without them, there is no real PVP in this game so there is no clear advantage over someone, the login rewards are just rewards for someone that decided to keep with their login rewards, there should be no "catch up" mechanic due to the time investment people already have, in general this whole thread was likely created due to someone wittnessing a login reward weapon, likely the zenistar and became disgruntle as a result of not being able to get said weapon until they invest the proper amount of daily logins.  Everything has a cost and this is it.

[(PSN)TheHypothes]

15 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

Why are you talking like the login rewards are a requirement to enjoy the game, they are NOT, a person can just function fine without them, there is no real PVP in this game so there is no clear advantage over someone, the login rewards are just rewards for someone that decided to keep with their login rewards, there should be no "catch up" mechanic due to the time investment people already have, in general this whole thread was likely created due to someone wittnessing a login reward weapon, likely the zenistar and became disgruntle as a result of not being able to get said weapon until they invest the proper amount of daily logins.  Everything has a cost and this is it.

 

Can you honestly, with a straight face, tell me if I was trying to convince you to play a game and I told you "yeah but you can't have this REALLY GOOD item until you've logged in for 1000+ days even though it'll probably take you less than a year to do all the content that isn't time locked," that you'd be like "yeah that's reasonable"?

 

The initial post may be just someone complaining, but it still raises a valid point when looking towards the future. We don't know what future rewards will be yet, but it's not unrealistic that something may be considered essential. Some have even expressed interest in an exclusive frame and such.

 

Based purely on this active discussion, I'm stating that I do believe, at some point, the existing system will discourage new people from playing, as rewards will be unobtainable within the game's lifespan. If you want that to be the case, that's your opinion, but I'd like to see the game stay strong for as long as possible, or what I have invested in it will be irrelevant.

[Troll_Logic]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Vagnar said:

What -IS- the issue is players just now starting out at any given point from now going forward. The longer it takes someone to finally discover the game, the more insurmountable the logins become.

The logins will never be insurmountable because players have already qualified for them.  If someone says "It's not fair for me to have to log into the game for 2 years to get that" I'll reply with "Someone already has."

1 hour ago, (PS4)Vagnar said:

Eventually we could be looking at new people having to do 1000 logins for rewards other players are enjoying. It'll eventually become impossible. 

Only if the game disappears and then, what does it matter?

1 hour ago, (PS4)Vagnar said:

Others have already presented what I consider the correct solution as well. At SOME POINT, rewards that directly impact game systems, like Mods or MR, should stop, and start offering things like exclusive cosmetics (maybe even special daily login Deluxe Skins and the like).

People would complain about that as well. 

This argument simply boils down to this.

"I want that cool new mod.  You mean someone logged into the game for almost two years to get that?  Well, I WANT IT NOW!  IT'S NOT FAIR."

1 hour ago, (PS4)Vagnar said:

I can personally vouch for not getting into other games at all because I knew how much catch-up work I'd have to do to play with friends. It's still a game at the end of the day, not a job.

That's your choice.  If it's a regular game where people play for a year & quit, then I understand.  But this game has been going for over four years.  This is a horse of a different color.  DE didn't build WF, sell a few DLCs, and call it a day.  DE is constantly adding and refining WF so it's nothing for someone to start a year behind his friends and then catch up.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Vagnar said:

Can you honestly, with a straight face, tell me if I was trying to convince you to play a game and I told you "yeah but you can't have this REALLY GOOD item until you've logged in for 1000+ days even though it'll probably take you less than a year to do all the content that isn't time locked," that you'd be like "yeah that's reasonable"?

If that's how ALL the people who have that REALLY GOOD item, then sure.  I'd be perfectly fine with that.  Then that's something to look for.  Something to earn.

 

You're missing that the point for these rewards is to reward the players WHO PLAY THE GAME.  I'm willing to bet that 95% of the players who want this mod right now won't be playing in a few months.  It's the same thing as the players who buy the plat, buy every prime WF and weapon, rush through every item for MR, hit a wall they can't buy through, and say "This is it?  It's boring."

[(XBOX)Slimm qp ReapeR]

On 7/24/2017 at 8:01 PM, eksby said:

600 days to get Primed Shred means a new player will have to log in every day for almost two years just to get that mod. Perhaps it's time to revisit the login reward method, maybe make it a 30 day cycle where you can pick what mod or weapon you want at the end of each cycle? 

Any better ideas? 

Edit: This isn't about needing the weapons or mods, but about how it feels for a new player when they see they will have to wait literal years to get something they might want in the login milestone awards. It doesn't exactly feel motivating to know that you need to log in 600 days to get Primed Shred, or 300 days to get Zenistar. And there's currently literally nothing you can do to make those time-gates shorter, unlike in the rest of the game where you can pay plat to rush something, or use plat to buy a vaulted item from another player. 

--

Do you like the way login rewards are right now? Vote here: http://www.strawpoll.me/13525030

I mean I don't really see the problem with it as it's just incentive to keep playing the game. There are plenty of other weapons/mods in the game currently that can easily take the place of these login weapons and rewards. I'm one day away from p shred. But that can easily be replaced by vile acceleration. One thing I will say tho is, I believe we should be able to trade those mods/weapons we get from login. We earned it so it's should be OUR choice to trade them. Yeah, of we risk possibly never being able to get that mod ever again but that should be OUR choice.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

5 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

So the players who have been loyally logging in for three or four years shouldn't have any rewards for that time?

Of course they still should, the point is items related to Mastery should eventually have cap.

Vets can still receive Primed Mods and Cosmetics, along with the 50 Reward packs. 

Edited August 13, 2017 by (XB1)Graysmog

[deathwishNL]

On 25-7-2017 at 3:01 AM, eksby said:

600 days to get Primed Shred means a new player will have to log in every day for almost two years just to get that mod.

Dude, everyone started as a 'new player' one day, so did us veterans. Can't blame us you only just found out about this awesome game. Not like we got it in 30 days either.

So, sit ur a** down and play and enjoy the game. Thats what we did and everyone else before you. So sick of these new generation players wanting everything easier and cheaper! bleh

[(PSN)TheHypothes]

2 hours ago, deathwishNL said:

Dude, everyone started as a 'new player' one day, so did us veterans. Can't blame us you only just found out about this awesome game. Not like we got it in 30 days either.

So, sit ur a** down and play and enjoy the game. Thats what we did and everyone else before you. So sick of these new generation players wanting everything easier and cheaper! bleh

That's... actually how most MMO do things. Old content becomes easier to clear. Old equipment becomes easier to obtain. Most veterans are fine with this, because it keeps the population flowing as people come and go.

 

We've been playing for years, but that includes plenty of content droughts and a lot of running missions just to run missions because we were waiting for said content to arrive.

 

It's whatever though. There's always 2 dramatic schools of thought in these types of discussions who like to spin every other post to make them sound like the holy grail to the game:

1) GIMME EVERYTHING NOW FOR FREE 

2) NO I'M SPECIAL BECAUSE I'VE DEDICATED MY LIFE TO A VIDEOGAME KEEP THIS GAME A VET'S CLUB NEW PLAYERS STAY OUT STOP MAKING THE GAME FRIENDLY FOR NEW PLAYERS OR YOU DONT CARE ABOUT MEEEEEEEE

 

Most people fall in the middle somewhere. The idea is to find a setup that appeals to everyone to keep the playerbase happy and healthy across all levels of content. Playable content that actually impacts gameplay should be something anyone new or old can aspire to achieve within a realistic timeframe.

[(PSN)fullblast35]

so why not give every new player everything?  I can understand the frustration of a new player who wants things other advanced players have,  but this isn't argument enough to give them rewards players obtain by login in more than others.  This is precisely to encourage you to keep on playing.   If you're a new player you have more to discover than to sit and hope for these things to happen.  At some point in your progress you will eventually come up with your own builds not even requiring primed shred.   How did other players make it without having it?  Obviously they played a lot.  everybody goes through it.  You don't even have to play that much, as long as you login at the given time which also replenishes your syndicate cap, focus cap and your trades.  Ok yeah, players with this mods could have a little more advantage, but they earned it.  and it's about the same with weapon rewards, sigils, exilus adapters and potatoes.  the game literally lets you bypass mastery locked weapons and frames if you buy them from the market, there had to be somewhere to distinguish players who play intensively and those who play once in a while.  And if you're a new player who already knows about primed shed you're probably youtubing content way ahead your progression status.

[ComCray]

Been skimming a bit throughout the discussion (which I didn't expect to go on as long as it did) but I can't actually find a compelling reason why the system should be changed. I'm sure these reasons must be in here somewhere, because I refuse to believe this has been going on for the few vapid attempts at an argument I've seen. 

SO, can is there anyone willing to consolidate these arguments in a single post? I'm not looking for a wall of text, just some bullit points will do. 

Why? Because I'm trying to wrap my head around the whole concept. Apparently this is a thing for some people and for the life of me, I can't figure out why it would be - apart from the obvious negative "because new players are entitled S#&$s", which I don't believe in.

Edited August 13, 2017 by ComCray

[Knight_Ex]

20 hours ago, (PS4)Vagnar said:

 

Can you honestly, with a straight face, tell me if I was trying to convince you to play a game and I told you "yeah but you can't have this REALLY GOOD item until you've logged in for 1000+ days even though it'll probably take you less than a year to do all the content that isn't time locked," that you'd be like "yeah that's reasonable"?

 

The initial post may be just someone complaining, but it still raises a valid point when looking towards the future. We don't know what future rewards will be yet, but it's not unrealistic that something may be considered essential. Some have even expressed interest in an exclusive frame and such.

 

Based purely on this active discussion, I'm stating that I do believe, at some point, the existing system will discourage new people from playing, as rewards will be unobtainable within the game's lifespan. If you want that to be the case, that's your opinion, but I'd like to see the game stay strong for as long as possible, or what I have invested in it will be irrelevant.

 Yes, I can say with a straight face that I can wait that long, because I don't weigh the merits of a game on a single element, one weapon out of 200+ other weapons that can be just as equally as effective given the right mods and such, if we get to the 1000 day mark I can wholeheartly say that I'm sure the login rewards will be the least of their concern, if new players have that much entitlement then perhaps they are better off playing other games, warframe isn't a game that you can collect everything you want in a short duration, like most F2P games it has elements that are only available when someone devotes enough time into the game, I mean jesus its not the first game to do this and won't be the last, people can take a piss on the login rewards all they want but I stick by with what I said as these are not required things to progress in the game.

[lainiwaku]

guys, you forgot about returner that came back to warframe like me
I'm not a new player, when i came back i was MR19 almoste 20 but because i didn't played for almost 2 years, even if i have 1.000H  of playtime, i need to do  that daily tribute system since day 1, even if i have already been connected for days befor that new system !
So the problem is not only about new players
with that reward system i feel like being treated like a newbee...
i have almost everything on the game but i will need to connect everyday for 2 year  and may be more to have the actual rewards ...
So guys please stop saying 'naah new players need to wait blablabla' because i am not and i already played for a long time

Edited August 13, 2017 by lainiwaku

[Chipputer]

44 minutes ago, lainiwaku said:

i didn't played for almost 2 years, even if i have 1.000H  of playtime, i need to do  that daily tribute system since day 1

Literally every single player had to start from day 1 when the new system hit. Not a single person got boosted further. You don't get special treatment any more than the vets who had played for multiple hours, daily, before it dropped who didn't get any special treatment at all.

[lainiwaku]

8 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Literally every single player had to start from day 1 when the new system hit. Not a single person got boosted further. You don't get special treatment any more than the vets who had played for multiple hours, daily, before it dropped who didn't get any special treatment at all.

yeah and that's why that system need to be changed... it's not rewarding neither for newbee neither for veteran, only for people who catched up the system at the good time
anyways  if  this reward system wouldn't be a problem we wouldn't have this big topic of 11 pages
can say what you want i still feel like this system treat me like a newbee not like a system rewarding veteran and playtime
 

Edited August 13, 2017 by lainiwaku