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[DE]Connor

Dev Workshop: The Features of Focus 2.5

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1 minute ago, Magnus said:

 

Players' choice. Choosing to be less effective is punished with being less effective. That's how it is in any game. If you want the Focus, you go get it. Four days is nothing. A half hour of grind each day is nothing. Doing it the right way? Just as miniscule. And the rewards for it can be fantastic.

Don't beg for things. Do it yourself. The world won't do it for you.

This is a videogame, by the way. This is a fantasy.

Fantasy shouldn't be crafted to feel like working a real job (which it sounds like you may not).

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1 minute ago, Magnus said:

Four days is nothing. 
Don't beg for things. Do it yourself. The world won't do it for you.

This is exactly the kind of lowest common denominator response I expected.
There's even a Strawman in there. Glad DE doesn't oblige these types of players.

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7 minutes ago, Fishyflakes said:

This is a videogame, by the way. This is a fantasy.

Fantasy shouldn't be crafted to feel like working a real job (which it sounds like you may not).

Yes, I'm aware this is a video game. However, you don't seem to be aware that this is Warframe. If you want something, you go grind for it or plat for it or pay real money for it.

Unless you are currently advocating buying focus with plat, you're not making any point. And if you are, you are making a very bad point.

5 minutes ago, GreyEnneract said:

This is exactly the kind of lowest common denominator response I expected.
There's even a Strawman in there. Glad DE doesn't oblige these types of players.

The point of focus is a long, end game grind. There are plenty of people who put in the time, and the effort, to get to that cap so they can make their operator that much stronger, because they want it. They're willing to work for it.

I'm sorry you think you deserve to get it more instantly and for less effort than other people put in right now on top of the massive cost decreases.

Edited by Magnus
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One more note...

 

I know this has little to no impact on... well... anything, but seeing the odd numbers of the new node rank ups hurts my OCD.

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17 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

On average, node costs have been reduced by almost 30%. When combined with the millions of Focus saved on pool capacity, the cost of Focus as a whole will be roughly half of what it is currently.

This effectively slashes overall pool costs to 20% of what they used to be, encouraging players to spend more time upgrading their Focus nodes, making tangible progress through the various trees

 
 

Not Enough, 30% & 20% is next to nothing, this needs to be around 10-20% at the very minimum!. (Edit: Thanks to someone else who pointed this error out to me, the lower the cost, goes down by % not higher)

Yes, I'm an idoit

17 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

 Focus points are still collected into five separate trees, but all will now have a shared pool capacity - this means you can upgrade your pool size using the points from any school you wish, which increases the maximum capacity for every school all at once!

 

What does this mean? does this mean we can collect points into a shared pool and then give out the points to any school?, I know you can upgrade your pool size, but how exactly, details Connor.

 

 

Edited by Circle_of_Psi
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57 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

However:

Why downgrade an already highly underwhelming, flat-damage, no-utility node?

How much energy do Operators have? If it's more than 40, this sounds like it'll be a buff since void dashing already takes a fourth of your energy.

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1 minute ago, Magnus said:

Yes, I'm aware this is a video game. However, you don't seem to be aware that this is Warframe. If you want something, you go grind for it or plat for it or pay real money for it.

Unless you are currently advocating buying focus with plat, you're not making any point. And if you are, you are making a very bad point.

I'm sure you're also aware this is also the same Warframe that lowered the cost of many Cetus recipes almost thrice over, mostly likely caused by player outcry.

The current system leaves a lot of players unhappy; leaving it how it is obviously not an option.

The whole point of this thread is to discuss possible tweaks or changes, so I'm not sure why you're defending the current system. :awkward:

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Just now, Circle_of_Psi said:

What does this mean? does this mean we can collect points into a shared pool and then give out the points to any school?

I think they should really show how all this is supposed to look on the dev stream, it is all way confusing right now.

 

I am still beside myself on the "No Lens Refund" bit. People spent plat on those. and they are not cheap. 40 plat each. What the hell DE!?

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5 minutes ago, Magnus said:

I'm sorry you think you deserve to get it more instantly and for less effort than other people put in right now.

There's that strawman again. You literally offer nothing to the discussion, since you just want to lie about people.
After doing this twice, don't expect any acknowledgement by DE or anyone else.

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So, the bulk of the changes effectively amount to "see guys we're reducing the grind a bit"

 

Zenurik:
-Void Singularity (doubled pull speed)
-Lightning Dash (costs 10 energy per cast)

 

Singularity is literally the last thing I will end up unlocking and ranking up with Zenurik because of how "whatever" of an ability it is. Even doubling the speed of it doesnt make it any more desireable.

 

Lightning dash costing more energy makes me want to turn it off. Question though, is it now just 10 energy for a void dash, or is it 10 energy on top of what it already takes from the operators energy when performing void dash?

 

Vazarin:
-Guardian Blast (grants 160 shields at max, up from 100)
-Protective Dash (grants 5s of immunity at max, up from 2s)

 

Wowe. Guardian blast grants a whole 160 shields! I dont see much of a reason to use this either. Go into operator mode and stop killing things to give allies a dash of shields, how fun...

 

Protective dash is better now but still you need to go into operator mode in mission, stopping killing and taking out threats that are causing your allies health damage to heal them. Sure, can be decent on a defense between waves but not much use outside of that.

 

Unairu:
-Void Spines (reflects 100% damage at max, up from 25%)
-Stone Skin (adds flat armor, 60 for both warframe and operator at max)

 

Unairu I still dont, havent, and wont use. How do void spines even work? Cant comment on this abilities tweak.

 

Stone skin still sucks. Its >60< armor. Thats nothing.

 

Madurai:
-Void Strike (continues accumulating damage boosts over multiple uses of void mode, each rank adds additional attacks up to a max of 8)
-Blazing Dash (now stuns enemies instead of ragdolling)

 

No idea about these Madurai passives since I only use Madurai for its waybound passives for other schools.

 

Further, its sad to see you guys are planning on keeping convergence orbs. This is one of the most universally hated aspects of the focus system. It doesnt provide any change of pace having to drop what you are doing essentially becoming a Pavlov companion every time the convergence dinner bell rings.

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Just now, Dornez said:

I think they should really show how all this is supposed to look on the dev stream, it is all way confusing right now.

 

I am still beside myself on the "No Lens Refund" bit. People spent plat on those. and they are not cheap. 40 plat each. What the hell DE!?

The update won't be that major. Some abilities are getting tweaks. The Major ones don't seem to change that much. It's not really neccesary.

The major tweaks are lowered focus costs across the board.

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12 minutes ago, Fishyflakes said:

Why give Zenurik's Lightning Dash an energy increase?

The whole point of the Zenurik and Naramon waybounds is to make your Void Dashes traverse extreme distances on the fly.

Why lower your available dashes for some low strength slow as mollases lightning orb?

Please reconsider, dear developers.

Personally I have never found a use for it, so I don't use the lightning dash node at all. 

 

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The problem people have with convergence orbs is that (a) it's highly random, (b) can cause the need to stray from objectives and team mates in order to activate and (c) can alter the speed of gameplay drastically, depending on the mission type.

Instead of convergence orbs spawning, can we consider a similar mechanic to focus 1.0 where we had to activate our focus manually based on a timer...except instead of activating "focus", we activate the "convergence" effect?

So basically you use the old mechanic and assets from Focus 1.0 to replace the convergence system instead of the focus activation system.

I don't have enough information on Focus 2.5 to make suggestions on what the cool down should be, how it should scale etc. 

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1 hour ago, [DE]Connor said:

However, we didn’t stop there - to hasten Focus progression even further, we reduced the costs of unlocking nodes across all trees. The table below compares what a 5 rank passive node (like Zenurik’s Energy Pulse) costs before and after these changes:

Focus2point5.PNG

 

Still far too much, this is more acceptable

 

Focus2point5_PNG_73ec3859dc92b3219a5d281

 

At the very least an max of 1,0000 to 3,0000 is acceptable too (not any higher) 

Edited by Circle_of_Psi

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1 minute ago, -dicht.Goko- said:

it's highly random,

*Stares longingly at orb that spawned 400+m away during a survival mission*

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Another question: As time passes, is it your intent to expand the trees further? Eventually more and more people will be completely maxed out. Seeing more nodes/perks added in time would be welcome.

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with Lenses becoming so common now, i'm not surprised you aren't refunding Lenses - fair enough.

 

anyways Convergence is a problematic thing because while it achieved the goal of avoiding AFK'ing and Et Cetera - it also totally takes a steaming dump on anybody that isn't abusively collecting Focus. because to use the Focus Crystal effectively, you need to group the Enemies up, and turn them off so you can go get the Focus Crystal and come back to Kill them.
if you just play the game, you'll either miss most of the Focus Crystals entirely, or you'll get basically nothing because you'll pick it up and there won't be a solid ocean of Enemies for 45 seconds.

to which end the Focus Crystal forces doing exactly what it exists to prevent (abusive Focus farming) in order to get Focus Points in any significant quantity.
if getting Focus is going to stay tied to XP (which is a mistake in itself, instead of tying to completing challenges to actively earn while playing?), then i don't think Focus will ever become a system that's reasonable for the vast majority - so separating game systems from XP will... help a lot at allowing creative freedom for usage of game features.
i've got something on Challenge based earning of things from XP to Focus to Mastery that i'll probably wrap up sometime soon, but for now just think of removing the tie of basically everything from XP and instead presenting myriads of Challenges and Challenge modifiers to complete in Gameplay which earns you points in these various systems. which would be no more randomly vaporizing Enemies, but dealing with them in various creative ways and the more creative and complex you do so, the better you're rewarded.

 

53 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

Why downgrade an already highly underwhelming, flat-damage, no-utility node?

probably to give less capability of stunlocking Enemies with it(unless you have all of the Waybounds), if i was to guess.

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1 minute ago, Fishyflakes said:

I'm sure you're also aware this is also the same Warframe that lowered the cost of many Cetus recipes almost thrice over, mostly likely caused by player outcry.

The current system leaves a lot of players unhappy; leaving it how it is obviously not an option.

The whole point of this thread is to discuss possible tweaks or changes, so I'm not sure why you're defending the current system. :awkward:

At the end of that Cetus costs nerf, you still had to fish in a specific way. If you changed your spears, you had to throw bait again because it broke it. You had to use the right spears for the right fish or bring Volt. You had to actually put in effort to still get your fish, as minimal as it was.

The costs are already being reduced and convergence will eventually™ get removed. On top of that, waybound themselves already didn't take that long, despite being the long term end game grind focus was designed to be. The people who wanted it, got it. There will always be a better way to go about gains. Then, we have people who don't want to put any work in at all.

3 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Still far too much, this is more acceptable

 

Focus2point5_PNG_73ec3859dc92b3219a5d281

 

At the very least an max of 1,0000 to 3,0000 is acceptable too (not any higher) 

Do you think it's fair to the people who want it more, who are willing to do more, to have a) their work undermined b) attempts at self improvement rendered useless c) wasted so much time just to see DE turn around and just hand out what is meant to be an end game grind?

It will always take effort and some amount of dedication. That has always been what focus was conveyed as.

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vor 14 Minuten schrieb Circle_of_Psi:

Not Enough, 30% & 20% is next to nothing, this needs to be around 40-50% at the very minimum!

What does this mean? does this mean we can collect points into a shared pool and then give out the points to any school?, I know you can upgrade your pool size, but how exactly, details Connor.

 

 

they reduced it to 20% from the current 100% u want them to increase it back up?

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Just now, Circle_of_Psi said:

Not Enough, 30% & 20% is next to nothing, this needs to be around 40-50% at the very minimum!

Dude read again. Cost will be cut TO 20% of what it currently is.

So will have 80% reduction in cost.

Edited by Kaotyke
@(*()$ auto correct

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33 minutes ago, Magnus said:

No, it isn't. Furthermore, it can be done in a singular day with Teralyst farming currently.

If the teralyst farming time to unbind a node is so low, why not reduce the focus cost accordingly so that normal play can also unbind a node?

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59 minutes ago, Echoes said:

That's... sad :c

But i'm okey with everything else

I agree everything is fine but I really don't get why we can't get the lenses back. I mean after hearing focus was going to get another look I decided to use some of my greater lenses so I could continue to farm focus xp. I wanted to use them to make the better eidilon lenses but In the sixty some bounty 5 missions I ran at that time I got two eidilon lenses bp... Then bounties got changed and I started to get eidilon lenses almost every time I ran the bounty. I'm sure alot of people are not in the same boat as me so maybe that's why DE doesn't want to mess with it...but then again if it's a small number of people then it shouldn't be to hard to do. I guess it's my fault to assume the focus re-rework would go down the same way the first rework did.

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Just now, Agnitrix said:

Will the Brilliant Eidolon Shards spent on previous unbindings also be refunded?

Yes.

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