[DELAYED] Damage 2.5 Part 1: Physical Damage

[vandald]

Impact should stun, possibly leaving enemies open for finishers. Puncture should cause attacks to ignore a portion of armor and/or shields. Slash should stay as it is now. All three of these effects could scale with damage dealt (longer stun for more impact damage, more armor/shield ignore for higher puncture) while also contributing to the entire point of hitting an enemy with attacks in the first place - I want to kill what i'm attacking.

[Nox_Terminus]

Prior to the introduction of Damage 2.5

Impact - Impact is considered a poor damage type due to its lack of an effective proc, as all it does is marginally inconvenience enemies for a brief period, and as a damage type it doesn't scale as there is no interaction which boosts its damage or makes it worth using over its peers.

Puncture - Puncture is considered an 'OK' damage type as it has a bonus to damage against armor, however its proc is considered pointless as enemy damage scales very high fairly quickly,and as a damage type it doesn't scale as there is no interaction which boosts its damage or makes it worth using over its peers.

Slash - Slash is considered the best physical damage type as while it may not be used for its bonus to damage against flesh (specifically), it has the most powerful physical proc in the game, which not only completely bypasses armor, deals with scaling enemies quite well.

After the introduction of Damage 2.5 (as currently explained)

Impact - Impact is considered a poor damage type due to its lack of an effective proc, as it acts as a major inconvenience to the player as enemies bounce around the map instead of dying, and as a damage type it doesn't scale as there is no interaction which boosts its damage or makes it worth using over its peers.

Puncture - Puncture is considered an 'OK' damage type as it has a bonus to damage against armor, however its proc is considered pointless as enemy damage scales very high fairly quickly,and as a damage type it doesn't scale as there is no interaction which boosts its damage or makes it worth using over its peers.

Slash - Slash is considered the best physical damage type as while it may not be used for its bonus to damage against flesh (specifically), it has the most powerful physical proc in the game, which not only completely bypasses armor, deals with scaling enemies quite well.

 

1 Damage type is made worse

1 Damage type remains the same

1 Damage type becomes the unequivocal best physical damage type in the game.

Add on to this that any non-IPS melee using a stance which procs an IPS damage type will now deal no damage, and additionally Hunter Munitions which is a new and brilliant mod introduced with Plague Star has gone from being the balancing point between several primaries against their more typically 'meta' peers, and also bridges the massive gap between primaries and secondaries in overall damage output. This is not what people wanted.

 

[A7xConnor]

So as I see it a lot of things could be made worse and a lot of things that are meta/strong already and don't need buffs potentially made even more so. Mainly for two things no one cares about and still won't care about.....

Slash, this could potentially be a buff to those already high slash meta weapons that don't need buffs (Tigris/Atterax etc) depending on how much damage it takes into consideration compared to the current 35% on a slash proc of the weapons overall base damage. It could potentially make weapons with good IPS spread just worse and even less in the meta leaderboard.

This will also potentially effect Hunter Munitions and just take the mod out of use by the few weapons that made use of it with high crit and damage but not slash focussed (Hello opticor, Rubico etc).

Also how will this behave on those weapons which are far from a slash damage weapon but have guaranteed slash procs in their stances? rapiers and what not.

 

 

As for Impact and Puncture, I highly doubt these changes will make them any more cared about, their function needs to be changed. Ragdolling is not what people want in a practical scenario outside of messing around..... if people are going to CC they are going to use abilities or blast (which you can choose to apply to your weapons). Not to mention it just makes it annoying to hit the enemies and kill them (thinking of Hydroid with his tentacles and how bad that use to be).

Puncture, a dead enemy is more important than a damage reduction, and damage reduction is even more useless when cast from the small focussed spectrum that a weapon can provide. As an AoE ability or whatever, sure it works (Equinox). People will also revert to CC by the time it gets to the point of needing protection from high level enemies killing you in seconds. Who is going to proc an enemy with weakness and just leave him there hanging around with his debuff? you don't.

And how will this effect the procs we get on ourselves? does this now mean we can be viable for 75% damage reductions and very annoying stagger/ragdolling now?

 

 

So for now just from what we know from reading, there's nothing here that seems good to me or that I care about. Personally I don't only use slash focussed weapons, nor do I really care if they are or not....I use what weapons I like the function of. I use plenty of impact and puncture weapons. People don't care about enemy damage reduction from a weapon proc and generally people don't want enemies ragdolling everywhere or having some bad cc that is a couple seconds.

Personally I feel slash should be left where it is (mainly so it doesn't break or ruin all these other biproducts of the change) and Impact and Puncture need new functions which can be brought up to par and be thought of comparably to slash, rather than just increasing their numbers.

[SilentCircle]

I'd love to see Connor and Scott post a video of them getting the John Prodman poster with the new proc system.

[FelanGrey]

Glad to hear that Slash wouldn't change.

For other damage types, I'm hoping to see something more interesting, like:

Impact

I like how impact make mobs to Knockback when I play with melee weapon, but it always bother me when I want to shoot in head with auto trigger type gun.
So, would be good, if with 3-4 stucks it would open enemy for finisher attack. But for this you should to have high Impact damage and status chance to make it procs often enough.

Puncture

This type of damage I didn't like ever. Why would I hit someone to reduce the damage, if I'll rather kill it as fast as I can?
So, Puncture procs stucks could make enemies more vulnerable to damage. And limit of vulnerability could be based on Puncture damage % of your weapon.
 

[Cipher-Fox]

This feels like the wrong way to go about this, as the only thing that matters is making an enemy easier to kill. So things such as impact stagger and damage reduction (unless it can stack to 100%) are meaningless, where as making it so that something like a high puncture weapon will do a %finisher damage on proc based on the overall weapon damage, or an impact proc might disarm or shake an enemy so they can not react quickly or accurately causing them to miss shots and attacks for the proc duration (which should start at at least 3-4 seconds) and stack each time it is proced in succession. This might bring these damage types closer to being on par with current slash builds.

[(PSN)purpleskullgamin]

You know, i'm not entirely sure whether or not people are taking into consideration contact damage with impact, you are aware if a ragdolled enemy hits another it not only does extra damage but also has a chance to ragdoll the enemy behind it correct? I think y'all need to calm down and watch how this plays out I think it's fine. 

[PookieNumnums]

While that's neat and all, slash is still going to rule and slash puncture will be useful. But players would rather kill an enemy than knock it down. 

 

What we need is multipliers on proc dmg that increase with procs to enemies weak to those status effects 

 

Like I said this is neat but it isn't going to change the game as far as I can see. 

And, we will still be building for elemental damage mostly 

[SilentCircle]

1 minute ago, FelanGrey said:

Glad to hear that Slash wouldn't change.

Better read the OP again then. Mayor slash nerf is all I'm reading there.

[Spot.]

As others have already probably mentioned, will armor scaling be addressed in anyway? From what I understand, it has been a problem even before damage 2.0, and hasn't been looked at for awhile.

Spoiler

Also with the next part for elementals, does void damage count among them and can it actually be buffed so that it's actually effective at killing sentients? Cause right now it's only really used for eidolons and nothing else.

 

[Pyus]

2 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

...And what about Elementals!?

Currently, when rolling for Proc chance IPS damage counts as 4x when rolling. A 100 damage Slash, 100 Toxin damage would have a 80% chance to proc slash over Toxin. With Damage 2.5, will IPS damage retain it's proc chance weight multiplier? 

[Arkhenbarn]

I read once, I think for myself it may be cool. Then I take a few moments to actually think ; and I start to worry.

Let's make a quick point per damage type :

• Slash : OK, still works the same... but no, since it's based only on slash damage and not base damage (you contradict yourself a bit, but why not ?). Now here comes the embarrassing question : why do you think we use mostly Slash in the first place ? Sweet, sweet scaling ; because the only way to beat armor is to ignore it...
• Puncture : Actually, this is one is great. I don't have a lot to say about the proposed revision.
• Impact : Oh God, after thinking about it a bit, this one might do more harm than good... Why would I even want to send enemies flying ?! Don't you see the problem coming ?! Let's take your example with the Vulkar : how am I supposed to chain bullets in their head if they fly away ?! It makes no sense. But the major problem... *DRUMROLL*... Impact MELEE weapons ! Wow, now it's impossible to even build the combo counter ! Hell, it won't even be possible to inflict damage with a damage type !

You want to balance damage types ; OK, totally fond of the concept. But you have to think about everything around it and the major part of the game that makes 99% of the builds nearly identical (diversity, wow) : SCALING !!!

[Redeye]

1 minute ago, Arkhenbarn said:

SCALING !!!

 

[AnemoneMeer]

Please don't get rid of the numbers cloud that feeds mods such as Relentless Combination, or unfairly nerf weapons that gained bleeds from their stances instead of status chance. Rapiers are almost entirely puncture, but their ability to deliver bleeds made them great with Relentless Combination and able to compete with the top tier weapons. Likewise, there are pure elemental weapons that get slash procs from their stances, and these weapons already need as much power as they can get with Atterax/GalaPrime around.

 

I agree 100% with nerfing slash as a damage type, but don't nerf weapons and mods that don't need the nerf just to nerf the best weapons a bit.

[mrfluffydeath]

2 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

 

. Slash has long been considered the most powerful of these effects, primarily because Slash procs stack on top of one another and scale with weapon damage, while both Puncture and Impact procs could only have their flat effects refreshed.

Slash ignores armor, and continues to damage as it continues to proc. Leading to things dying quicker. Dead enemies do no damage. Death is the Ultimate Debuff.

[Feltal]

I didn't want to use anything with hunter munitions anyway...

[(PSN)purpleskullgamin]

Another thing kinda dissapointing how last I knew shotguns couldn't get -ips on there rivens

[Zarlockk]

I am not a fan of ragdoll effect on impact. It is annoying when you want to get the kill. I rather see freeze or disarm effect instead. Sure it can create funny moments but....no.

Of course my suggestion might be op but at the same time, impact is worst of the 3 damage type in terms of usefulness. Dont get me wrong, there are some great impact weapons but....

Just no ragdoll please

[ExplosiveBolts]

2 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Galatine will still inflict more serious singular procs in a wider area - ‘tis but a scratch.

I'm sorry, I can no longer support the game or your company after failing to properly reference Monty Python.

[KunoUshinawa]

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Any edge case things that feel like massive nerfs should be civilly listed so we can address.

ALRIGHTY THEN!!!

If this statement is true:

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Slash will continue working as it does now, stacking multiple status effects on top of one another.

Then this one is a lie

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

before, a Slash proc would scale based on the weapon’s total base damage output. Now, all procs will be calculated using ONLY the damage type of the proc that is being inflicted.

So which is it? As it is right now when hunter munitions procs slash while I'm using my Arca plasmor the tics deal 9,631.44 slash dmg, with this suggested change the Arca plasmor would deal a total of... let's see 100% of 0 is... oh right NOTHING.
Well let's look at some weapons and see the difference:

Weapon     Slash tic now     slash tic after change
Atterax:             15.75                40.5
AkstilletoP         13.3                  10.8
GalatineP          57.75              158.8
Rakta Cer         43.75                12.5
Baza                  5.6                    3.5
Opticor              350                   50
aklex P              52.5                  15
Vectis P             113.75             46.7
Lenz                  241.5                0
Ignis Wraith       8.75                  0
Guandao           31.5                63
Zenith                52.5                15
Supra Vandal    15.75               6.7
Tenora                 8.05              4.6

The reason there are so many primaries is because of Hunter Munitions which, after the suggested change, will be worth less than the effort it took to get it. To pretend this isn't a massive all-around nerf is rather ballsy.

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

In an update coming soon, we will be making changes to IPS status effects and proc damage calculation. Our primary goal was improving Impact and Puncture; both of these procs will now scale in effectiveness, based on the damage dealt. An Impact proc with a small damage output (like a single Akstilletto bullet) will still only cause a short stagger, while an Impact proc with high damage output (like a Vulkar shot) can scale all the way up to a ragdoll, temporarily immobilizing them. In a similar manner, Puncture procs will now scale in effectiveness from 10% to 75% damage reduction, based on the damage dealt at the time of proc. Slash will continue working as it does now, stacking multiple status effects on top of one another.

So screw the newbs is what you're saying... Because they have high damage weapons right?

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Impact now serves as a great means of crowd control. Got a Corpus Tech threatening your excavator? Immobilize priority targets by unloading your Akstillettos, giving you more time to address the threat. Overwhelmed by an army of MOAs? Level entire rooms with something like a Strun!

AOE is Crowd control, single target stagger/knock down affords us nothing. In this game we are SWARMED by enemies who deal COMPRABLE damage to what we do. It sounds like you're trying to describe Blast procs but you're just using the wrong word. Until Impact can AOE knockdown don't bother acting like this is a buff. Constantly knocking down a single target forces me to re-aim costing me valuable damage that could be killing the target faster.

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Puncture can be used to minimize enemy lethality for frames with less survivability. Using high status puncture melees like Boltace or Endura, go blow-for-blow with Butchers and Powerfists without breaking a sweat. And if your Lex Prime can’t oneshot the Heavy Gunner rumbling towards your defense point, the enemy’s damage will be diminished long enough to safely deal the finishing blow.

My sister taught me a valuable saying: Never swing first, but if you have to swing make sure they never get back up.
Unless I'm pairing infinite Puncture procs with a bless Trinity this is not diminishing the threat. Killing an enemy reduces its damage output by 100%

Proposed changes:

All status procs have a length of 7 seconds.

Impact: All impact damage ignores shields, but not proto-shields. Impact procs slow enemy movement by 5% per proc up to a max of 65%, no scaling with damage amount, each proc refreshes the duration, This make enemies easier to kill AND reduces the damage they deal immediately, also makes impact viable damage against grineer.

Puncture: All puncture damage ignores armor, but not shields/proto-shields. Puncture procs make "holes" in armor, holes aren't actual holes that you have to aim at, these "holes" decrease the reduction to other damage types by 5% per proc up to a total of 55%. Doesn't scale with damage amount. Each proc refreshes the duration. This makes puncture AS USEFUL AS CORROSIVE against armored units.

Slash: DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING!! THE PROPOSED CHANGE NERFS ALMOST EVERY WEAPON IN THE GAME AND WILL CHANGE NOTHING ABOUT ATTERAX SPIN TO WIN OR GALATINE PRIME SPIN TO WIN BUILDS DOMINATING MELEE.

Edit: Actually I guess there is one change you could do, In the codex, in the tutorial that we read for damage, it is explained that when you or your enemy has shields that bullets/melee strikes don't actually hit them, so how are they getting slash procs? Make it so slash and puncture procs can't be received through shields, both for enemies and for we Tenno. This will also help set corpus apart and make them less of a joke.

The current problem is that puncture and impact are worthless, buffing what they already do doesn't make them better. You need a drastic change in the behavior of these two damage types to make them worth the mod points/endo/credits/forma/potatoes we put into our weapons. AND with the changes I've stated above Khora can be a straight out dps warframe with slash, or she can be a support warframe AND still have dps with impact/puncture.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT DO WHAT YOU'VE PROPOSED.

[ADirtyMonk]

1. Scaling procs is a great base to have. There is a lot of potential for rewarding players who build for extremely high status chance and balancing with pure crit builds outside of Condition Overload as well as rewarding the "elemental" frames by allowing them to achieve a unique tier of procs (ex. if heat procs only went up to 4 stack, ember would go up to a tier 5 with the bonus being t5 procs doing true damage). Very glad you guys decided to make that improvement.

2. Thanks for not touching slash.

3. New puncture and impact, while definitely a buff from before, are still extremely weak compared to slash as they are single target CC/debuff whereas slash is death which is far better. Of the two impact will be far worse as the non damaging, difficult to track, nature of ragdoll has the overall effect of taking enemies outside of a player's kill zone. There is a reason why Zephyr's tornados and Hydroid's old Tentacle swarm are considered bad ults.

This makes your post using the Strun as an example of a great use of impact absolutely laughable because the only thing the player will be doing is knocking enemies out of the strun's damage dropoff range. I'm honestly a little disappointed that no one on the game design staff caught this.

I personally would avoid high impact status weapons at all costs.

For puncture, I dont have that much to say at the moment other than I would need to test out just how effective a 75% DR on puncture proc is in improving survival in sorties/floods but I would still prefer slash by a great margin. Additionally, again I find the use of melee as an example of the usefulness of the proc laughable. Most melee units have very little armor/shields and they very quickly die before they get a few hits in. Melee units are not the issue for players using melee. The issue are the rest of the enemies shooting at the players who are not getting damage reduction.

I would recommed the following additions. The Ragdolling enemies into a surface or other enemies should take off a significant portion of HP (40-60%) depending on how easy it is to achieve ragdoll. "light" enemies would have less HP taken off. "heavy" enemies would have a lot of HP taken off. Frosts snowglobe used to have this but with an instant KO on everything which was definitely overpowered but should not have been removed entirely. I believe that the boltor series still does this as well although I do not know to what extent the damage is.

For puncture, I would like to see it ignore a % of armor (ex. 40-75%). This way it contributes to damage but does not step on the toes of corrosive damage which strips armor for the entire team.

Edit: I misread. That is a @(*()$ HUGE nerf to slash and makes Hunter Munitions worthless on pretty much every gun except for Panthera and maybe the Miter.

[Casardis]

I made a topic shortly after Devstream 101 exactly because I was afraid you guys won't change anything from your forst public discussion. Seems my concerns were well-founded.

Please please PLEASE reconsider the ragdoll. I made extensive feedback here to back my point so please consider reading it instead of ignoring feedback against forced ragdoll mechanics.

Additionally, your changes still won't make a difference to the biggest issue in the core of enemy scaling: infinite armor scaling. Even with your changes I will guarantee more than 3/4 of players will simply opt for Slash, includinf on Khora. This changes nothing.

Unless you put a more balanced cap to enemy damage reduction, slash os still the meta and always will be.

[Cipher-Fox]

5 minutes ago, Uzkost said:

ALRIGHTY THEN!!!

If this statement is true:

Then this one is a lie

So which is it? As it is right now when hunter munitions procs slash while I'm using my Arca plasmor the tics deal 9,631.44 slash dmg, with this suggested change the Arca plasmor would deal a total of... let's see 100% of 0 is... oh right NOTHING.
Well let's look at some weapons and see the difference:

Weapon     Slash tic now     slash tic after change
Atterax:             15.75                40.5
AkstilletoP         13.3                  10.8
GalatineP          57.75              158.8
Rakta Cer         43.75                12.5
Baza                  5.6                    3.5
Opticor              350                   50
aklex P              52.5                  15
Vectis P             113.75             46.7
Lenz                  241.5                0
Ignis Wraith       8.75                  0
Guandao           31.5                63
Zenith                52.5                15
Supra Vandal    15.75               6.7
Tenora                 8.05              4.6

The reason there are so many primaries is because of Hunter Munitions which, after the suggested change, will be worth less than the effort it took to get it. To pretend this isn't a massive all-around nerf is rather ballsy.

So screw the newbs is what you're saying... Because they have high damage weapons right?

AOE is Crowd control, single target stagger/knock down affords us nothing. In this game we are SWARMED by enemies who deal COMPRABLE damage to what we do. It sounds like you're trying to describe Blast procs but you're just using the wrong word. Until Impact can AOE knockdown don't bother acting like this is a buff. Constantly knocking down a single target forces me to re-aim costing me valuable damage that could be killing the target faster.

My sister taught me a valuable saying: Never swing first, but if you have to swing make sure they never get back up.
Unless I'm pairing infinite Puncture procs with a bless Trinity this is not diminishing the threat. Killing an enemy reduces its damage output by 100%

Proposed changes:

All status procs have a length of 7 seconds.

Impact: All impact damage ignores shields, but not proto-shields. Impact procs slow enemy movement by 5% per proc up to a max of 65%, no scaling with damage amount, each proc refreshes the duration, This make enemies easier to kill AND reduces the damage they deal immediately, also makes impact viable damage against grineer.

Puncture: All puncture damage ignores armor, but not shields/proto-shields. Puncture procs make "holes" in armor, holes aren't actual holes that you have to aim at, these "holes" decrease the reduction to other damage types by 5% per proc up to a total of 55%. Each proc refreshes the duration. This makes puncture AS USEFUL AS CORROSIVE against armored units.

Slash: DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING!! THE PROPOSED CHANGE NERFS ALMOST EVERY WEAPON IN THE GAME AND WILL CHANGE NOTHING ABOUT ATTERAX SPIN TO WIN OR GALATINE PRIME SPIN TO WIN BUILDS DOMINATING MELEE.

The current problem is that puncture and impact are worthless, buffing what they already do doesn't make them better. You need a drastic change in the behavior of these two damage types to make them worth the mod points/endo/credits/forma/potatoes we put into our weapons. AND with the changes I've stated above Khora can be a straight out dps warframe with slash, or she can be a support warframe AND still have dps with impact/puncture.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT DO WHAT YOU'VE PROPOSED.

This, literally this, is the type of fix the damage types needs

[Dragazer]

2 hours ago, Naftal said:

How do you buff the two bad options to be as good as death?

Has DE offered you a job yet? You clearly have their same flawed logic and have missed the big picture.

The reason slash builds are so popular is because armor scaling is so asinine that slash procs are literally the only 1 out of the 3 that can deal with this nonsense. 

 

Brozime's vid here shows us this at work here

Have you ever thought, that maybe if the armor scaling was reworked to be resonable we wouldnt have to all flock to slash builds to circumvent it?

But then again, time after time DE has shown us they are deathly allergic to logical decisions.

[Casardis]

8 minutes ago, Uzkost said:

ALRIGHTY THEN!!!

If this statement is true:

Then this one is a lie

So which is it? As it is right now when hunter munitions procs slash while I'm using my Arca plasmor the tics deal 9,631.44 slash dmg, with this suggested change the Arca plasmor would deal a total of... let's see 100% of 0 is... oh right NOTHING.
Well let's look at some weapons and see the difference:

Weapon     Slash tic now     slash tic after change
Atterax:             15.75                40.5
AkstilletoP         13.3                  10.8
GalatineP          57.75              158.8
Rakta Cer         43.75                12.5
Baza                  5.6                    3.5
Opticor              350                   50
aklex P              52.5                  15
Vectis P             113.75             46.7
Lenz                  241.5                0
Ignis Wraith       8.75                  0
Guandao           31.5                63
Zenith                52.5                15
Supra Vandal    15.75               6.7
Tenora                 8.05              4.6

The reason there are so many primaries is because of Hunter Munitions which, after the suggested change, will be worth less than the effort it took to get it. To pretend this isn't a massive all-around nerf is rather ballsy.

So screw the newbs is what you're saying... Because they have high damage weapons right?

AOE is Crowd control, single target stagger/knock down affords us nothing. In this game we are SWARMED by enemies who deal COMPRABLE damage to what we do. It sounds like you're trying to describe Blast procs but you're just using the wrong word. Until Impact can AOE knockdown don't bother acting like this is a buff. Constantly knocking down a single target forces me to re-aim costing me valuable damage that could be killing the target faster.

My sister taught me a valuable saying: Never swing first, but if you have to swing make sure they never get back up.
Unless I'm pairing infinite Puncture procs with a bless Trinity this is not diminishing the threat. Killing an enemy reduces its damage output by 100%

Proposed changes:

All status procs have a length of 7 seconds.

Impact: All impact damage ignores shields, but not proto-shields. Impact procs slow enemy movement by 5% per proc up to a max of 65%, no scaling with damage amount, each proc refreshes the duration, This make enemies easier to kill AND reduces the damage they deal immediately, also makes impact viable damage against grineer.

Puncture: All puncture damage ignores armor, but not shields/proto-shields. Puncture procs make "holes" in armor, holes aren't actual holes that you have to aim at, these "holes" decrease the reduction to other damage types by 5% per proc up to a total of 55%. Doesn't scale with damage amount. Each proc refreshes the duration. This makes puncture AS USEFUL AS CORROSIVE against armored units.

Slash: DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING!! THE PROPOSED CHANGE NERFS ALMOST EVERY WEAPON IN THE GAME AND WILL CHANGE NOTHING ABOUT ATTERAX SPIN TO WIN OR GALATINE PRIME SPIN TO WIN BUILDS DOMINATING MELEE.

The current problem is that puncture and impact are worthless, buffing what they already do doesn't make them better. You need a drastic change in the behavior of these two damage types to make them worth the mod points/endo/credits/forma/potatoes we put into our weapons. AND with the changes I've stated above Khora can be a straight out dps warframe with slash, or she can be a support warframe AND still have dps with impact/puncture.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT DO WHAT YOU'VE PROPOSED.

This ^