Arca Plasmor Change

[(PSN)lhbuch]

I hate the nerf, Plasmor scaled very poorly against armor, it was only possible due to Hunter munitions which already seems to be in the nerf pile.

It is even worse to think about the possibility that this was caused because one augment for one frame. 

[(PSN)lhbuch]

Agree with OP. Plasmor is rly fun and still powerful, but it is MILES behind weapons like Tigris Prime, Strun Wraith etc...

After a certain level, it only performed well against armor with hunter munitions.

If this change was motivated due to the new harrow augment, make it so the interaction with the augment is limited etc...

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

If Harrow is the reason for the arca nerf I'd rather Harrows Augment change.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

17 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Thats what i was talking about.

People come up and defend this senseless nerf because apparently the devs realized it does something they do not want to do anymore. All these white knights come and defend DE for removing one of the main damage source on a weapon because:

1. it was not intented
2. its a bug
3. it shouldnt have done that

And yet the weapon was active for 4 months, if it was too good they could balance it in week 1.

Dude the weapon was known being capatable of this from the start, after 4 months this is not a fix this is a straight nerf.

Should i use the same argument on channelling? How much they want to see things play out before they decide it needs fixin?

Agree 100%. Now people here that claims this weapon was OP never used it on endless seriously, the thing starts to fall off at lvl 80-100 without hunter munitions.

If this was caused by the augment, make its interaction with the augment nerfed, not the weapon as a hole, like one bonus headshot per shot and not for all enemies hit etc...

[(PSN)lhbuch]

I havent seem any please nerf Arca Plasmor headshot bonus thread since its release and now that it is done everybody comes out and say that it was deserved.

Maybe I overlooked.

[IceColdHawk]

vor 1 Minute schrieb (PS4)lhbuch:

Maybe I overlooked.

No, you didn't.

[Madway7]

19 hours ago, Misgenesis said:

In your world.

 

In a sense it was an unnecessary change because Arca Plasmor still mows down groups of enemies with ease. Caustacyst was obviously broken, you should instead be asking for a buff to its base stats.

So I've used the Caustacyst, but only in it's current state, without a really good riven it's not worth using at all imo.

Its range with Primed Reach feels like what it should be at base and it's charge attack is far too slow to be effective. 

 

If charge attackes were much faster or modable I would probably agree, but since it's not nerfing the weapon in this regard did not do it any favours.

(In most cases the enemy would be killed by an ally before you even hit them with it, that and it general you're leaving yourself open to attack)

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

I havent seem any please nerf Arca Plasmor headshot bonus thread since its release and now that it is done everybody comes out and say that it was deserved.

Maybe I overlooked.

Some are just quick to "white knight" or knee jerk DEs poor knee jerk decisions that make 0 sense.  Than to actually use their own brain on whether or not it was really needed. 

That's my perception anyway. 

Edited January 29, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[MysteriousPixie]

2 hours ago, Midrib said:

You don't need a PhD in post nerf Arca plasmor to know how the nerf is going to affect it, You won't get a bonus multiplier for headshots anymore, the weapon is exactly the same just the headshots you were getting won't grant you extra damage anymore.

The weapon is not ruined, your rivens are just as good, there is just no point going for headshots (unless you are using acolyte mods) anymore since they are basically body shots now.

as much as i find this nerf unnecessary and stupid in my opinion, people are overreacting as if they halved the damage of the Arca plasmor or removed its punch thro, it will still be the same beast of a weapon, just with a bit less overkill.

But they did halve its damage... With armour being as op as it is more damage was always welcome :S

P.S.: Explosives still exist? Are they now going to nerf the corinth and penta and too?

Edited January 29, 2018 by FunnyBunny3141

[Kayll]

53 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

Some are just quick to "white knight" or knee jerk DEs poor knee jerk decisions that make 0 sense.  Than to actually use their own brain on whether or not it was really needed. 

That's my perception anyway. 

When you see the sheer amount of people using the weapon in game, you are positive if you made any thread going against it there will be a ton of resistance.
Why would anyone come to the forums for such a fruitless effort?

There are many other weapons that are stronger than a good majority of the others,and threads could be made for them, but everyone knows what these weapons are and even the people using these weapons should expect them to be brought to the chopping block, and not feign surprise when its finally their turn.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

21 hours ago, Ogarra_Remaellus said:

You actually tried headshots with Plasmor? Just make it do crap tons of damage, point and shoot.

 

IKR?!!!

Opticor and it's 2.5 mil headshots was WORRIED before this change!

Wait, no it wasn't...

[Chipputer]

10 hours ago, Kayll said:

Where did this Harrow reasoning even come from?

The usual, "correlation must equal causation or else my knee jerking into my ribcage this hard isn't justified," that usually follows a nerf.

The gun is still good, minus the bug where it doesn't deal damage on headshots, so I don't see what the problem is. I'm still killing with it just as efficiently with my Gas Man loadout.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

38 minutes ago, Kayll said:

When you see the sheer amount of people using the weapon in game, you are positive if you made any thread going against it there will be a ton of resistance.
Why would anyone come to the forums for such a fruitless effort?

There are many other weapons that are stronger than a good majority of the others,and threads could be made for them, but everyone knows what these weapons are and even the people using these weapons should expect them to be brought to the chopping block, and not feign surprise when its finally their turn.

I'm still perplexed as to why Arca Plasmor is the scapegoat here?

Harrow augment or not, every shotgun in this game with punch through can do the exact same thing AP was nerfed for doing. 

Wouldn't it make more sense to leave the AP head shot alone, But add a little more splash and nerf the innate punch thru instead?

Edited January 29, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[Badgriuel]

53 minutes ago, Kayll said:

When you see the sheer amount of people using the weapon in game, you are positive if you made any thread going against it there will be a ton of resistance.
Why would anyone come to the forums for such a fruitless effort?

There are many other weapons that are stronger than a good majority of the others,and threads could be made for them, but everyone knows what these weapons are and even the people using these weapons should expect them to be brought to the chopping block, and not feign surprise when its finally their turn.

I think it more has to do with DE breaking something because of something new they introduced could "break" the game if used with a very specific Warframe and augment mod. Which mind you was recently introduced. If DE is worried about getting too many headshots with 1 round fired from the Arca Plasmor then maybe they should of thought about that when they first introduced the weapon? A big part of the reason why you can get more then 1 headshot on a single target is because of the type of round that is fired by the weapon.

"Arca Plasmor is a Corpus-built plasma shotgun that fires highly damaging pulses of  Radiation" 

So since the round fired is a pulse this leads us to believe that one round fired from it sends out a wave of pulses in a group. How many pulses we don't know but we know there is more then 1 and Hell's Chamber will give us more or anything that adds multi-shot. 

Assuming that's what DE meant by their post about the Arca Plasmor changes. Or it could be just the punch through, which every gun and shotgun can have sooooo.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Badgriuel

[Kayll]

19 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

I'm still perplexed as to why Arca Plasmor is the scapegoat here?

Harrow augment or not, every shotgun in this game with punch through can do the exact same thing AP was nerfed for doing. 

Wouldn't it make more sense to leave the AP head shot alone, But add a little more splash and nerf the innate punch thru instead?

My most wasn't directed at the Arca Plasmor directly, I simply gave a reasoning of why you don't see anyone making posts about over used strong weapons in general.
 

14 minutes ago, Badgriuel said:

I think it more has to do with DE breaking something because of something new they introduced could "break" the game if used with a very specific Warframe and augment mod. Which mind you was recently introduced. If DE is worried about getting too many headshots with 1 round fired from the Arca Plasmor then maybe they should of thought about that when they first introduced the weapon? A big part of the reason why you can get more then 1 headshot on a single target is because of the type of round that is fired by the weapon.

"Arca Plasmor is a Corpus-built plasma shotgun that fires highly damaging pulses of  Radiation" 

So since the round fired is a pulse this leads us to believe that one round fired from it sends out a wave of pulses in a group. How many pulses we don't know but we know there is more then 1 and Hell's Chamber will give us more or anything that adds multi-shot. 

I still don't know where people are getting this "it got nerfed cause of Harrows augment" bit from,the fact that the Arca Plasmor still procs arcane's that require a headshot probably means that it'd still give the benefit to Harrow. (can't test cause headshots aren't doing damage.

And again I don't know where people are getting the "arca plasmor shoots multiple projectiles", since it makes no sense for them to make it that way. The multiple hits only occurs on headshots, aiming anywhere on the body results in a single damage number with an unmodded plasmor, while aiming at/above the head it results in mutliple numbers (3-10+ UNMODDED) depending on where the enemy and the shot is.

[Badgriuel]

12 minutes ago, Kayll said:

And again I don't know where people are getting the "arca plasmor shoots multiple projectiles", since it makes no sense for them to make it that way. The multiple hits only occurs on headshots, aiming anywhere on the body results in a single damage number with an unmodded plasmor, while aiming at/above the head it results in mutliple numbers (3-10+ UNMODDED) depending on where the enemy and the shot is.

If you put a max ranked Hell's Chamber you get 2-3 waves per shot. If you then add a Riven for it that gives it even more multi-shot you'll get more waves with each press of the trigger. 

 

14 minutes ago, Kayll said:

I still don't know where people are getting this "it got nerfed cause of Harrows augment" bit from,the fact that the Arca Plasmor still procs arcane's that require a headshot probably means that it'd still give the benefit to Harrow. (can't test cause headshots aren't doing damage.

Because the change happened at the same time that Harrow got it's new augment. So people put 2+2 together. I mean it's a weapon that fires a pulse even when I'm not aiming for headshots and just aiming at center mass I can get headshots because of how big the pulse is. 

[Kayll]

@Badgriuel
I guess since you didn't read the unmodded part here is a visual example for you.
An unmodded plasmor hitting multiple times,this occurs on a number of enemies, some worse more than others.
https://gfycat.com/QueasyQuarterlyBeardeddragon

 

[Badgriuel]

2 minutes ago, Kayll said:

@Badgriuel
I guess since you didn't read the unmodded part here is a visual example for you.
An unmodded plasmor hitting multiple times,this occurs on a number of enemies, some worse more than others.
https://gfycat.com/QueasyQuarterlyBeardeddragon

 

I did read that, but we don't know if those numbers are just showing up that often because of the no headshot damage and its causing other things to happen. Issue is we don't know if all those 0's are a part of the current bug.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

Betting most people are angry at the change to arca plasmor. Warranted or not, the change was not a good idea. Maybe its concept was, but the implementation was flawed.

For those that want to know what happened, DE made the headshot multiplier of the Arca Plasmor 0.0x, so when it hits the head, it deals 0 damage. This is an obvious change to remove the headshot capabilities of the arca plasmor, but it wasn't for the damage was it? If the damage were the real issue, DE would've have changed the multiplier a long time ago to prevent the arca plasmor from dealing more damage than it deserved all this time, but why now? Simple, DE didn't want Arca Plasmor getting headshot kills. This is obviously a bug, but the change gives light to the intent.

Why do headshot kills matter more than the damage? The answer is Harrow. The newest augment of harrow makes Covenant's crit buff last longer on headshot kills. Combine with AP's high chance at headshots, this ensures that even if Arca Plasmor did the same damage as body shots, he'd still get the headshot kills, and thus the augment's effects. In order to stop this, DE destroyed all chances at headshots entirely. The timing of this change is no coincidence at all.

This settles the argument on why the Arca Plasmor was changed, but how can we fix this oversight? Revert the change? Not likely. What Arca Plasmor needs is a mechanical change. Resizing the collision mesh is one idea, but one I've been pundering is making it similar to the Fluctus in mechanics. The effect is similar, but the Fluctus is more consistent with its output and can use "skill" to get headshots. It's a thought, but not a necessity. 

 The results of the current change destroys Harrow's use for the arca plasmor entirely. Not only has Covenant been changed, but Thurible has been hurt too. With no headshot kills, Thurible will not perform at its best. Ivara's prowl suffers too due to the headshot multiplier she has. Aside from headshot frames, any user will have issues with it since the damage coming from the weapon is inconsistent. Also, in higher level content, when headshots are almost always mandatory, the Arca will fall off. Along with this, headshot challenges have become null with the AP. Think it over DE. This may save the forums from another Vivergate crisis.

Edit: Made word corrections so that readers don't misinterpret the info present. This thread  is not about the performance, but rather the intent behind the change.

Edited January 29, 2018 by (PS4)Crixus044

[Fallen_Echo]

4 hours ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

Agree 100%. Now people here that claims this weapon was OP never used it on endless seriously, the thing starts to fall off at lvl 80-100 without hunter munitions.

If this was caused by the augment, make its interaction with the augment nerfed, not the weapon as a hole, like one bonus headshot per shot and not for all enemies hit etc...

1 second delay between any enemy hit should be enough knowing how clustered the enemies are normally.

Also since i see you are on ps4, can i ask you a little favor?

We currently have a debate on whenever this weapon was really bugged or not on headshots. It would be great if someone not on pc could clarify how many times this weapon hits heads if it only barely skims the head part on a mob.

[LuckyCharm]

On 1/28/2018 at 1:24 PM, UncleWalrus said:

Let me rephrase this: Digital Extremes nerfed Mag because Mesa was too powerful.

DE nerfed greedy pull, because more than just mesa got energy. Saryn, Excalibur, Ember.. really every frame that could nuke was nuking. They nerfed it because it was making everything non interactive. like playing with a permenant energy banshee

[OvisCaedo]

I think the change is complete nonsense, but you're kind of off here, still. DE already said that it dealing 0x damage was a mistake and they meant to have it dealing 1x damage. I'm guessing when they suddenly decided the weapon should be nerfed, they just changed the value without ACTUALLY checking how they'd programmed it to begin with.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

25 minutes ago, OvisCaedo said:

I think the change is complete nonsense, but you're kind of off here, still. DE already said that it dealing 0x damage was a mistake and they meant to have it dealing 1x damage. I'm guessing when they suddenly decided the weapon should be nerfed, they just changed the value without ACTUALLY checking how they'd programmed it to begin with.

They made it 0.0x for a reason, but whether is was intentional or an accident doesn't change the intent behind the change. The intent was to stop Harrow. Reminds me of when Greedy Pull was changed because of Mesa.

Edited January 29, 2018 by (PS4)Crixus044

[o.0-]

I have to wonder if is more a consequence of the recent optimizations that had been shared in the patch notes?

For example, with cleaning up code and then having it auto-generate, it's totally plausible that due to how the Plasmor does hit detection, something was likely changed or even broke, and the quick short term band-aid was to change the modifier and it can up as a new bug as result of trying a quick fix, as the devs have stated.

So on this issue, I'll just wait to hear what the devs tell us next, as I can understand going though those lines of code has to be a headache to figure out where the problem is originating from.

And I think of it as playing whack-a-mole, makes some changes over here, and now you gotta makes changes over there, and then this breaks over here and on and on.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

Just now, SPARTAN-187.Thanatos said:

I have to wonder if is more a consequence of the recent optimizations that had been shared in the patch notes?

For example, with cleaning up code and then having it auto-generate, it's totally plausible that due to how the Plasmor does hit detection, something was likely changed or even broke, and the quick short term band-aid was to change the modifier and it can up as a new bug as result of trying a quick fix, as the devs have stated.

So on this issue, I'll just wait to hear what the devs tell us next, as I can understand going though those lines of code has to be a headache to figure out where the problem is originating from.

And I think of it as playing whack-a-mole, makes some changes over here, and now you gotta makes changes over there, and then this breaks over here and on and on.

Agreed. I think the change that is needed is a mechanical change, not a knob tweak, which is all this is. Bugged or not, intentional or not. This change is not the right call and comes from the wrong reasons. I think a mechanical shift to make it like the fluctus will fix just about everything.