Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[FabioGOD]

About ash... you nerfed it long time ago now you are paying attention ? well thats nice. About the new buffs i think gara really needs a buff lol, sortie lvl even with a lot of str and armor mods its like BAD, about mag and chroma, they are going to be better? so yes why not!!, volt also looks nice, need to see how this frames are going to work now!!, about the nerfs...... to be honest im not a rly sound quake lover, BUT EMBER why DE why... ember is perfect, dont do that please.... , about zephry... i literally dont see anything that makes me wanna play with her, + i think she´s the worst frame ever (my opinion) so yeah.... thats it.

[LuckyCharm]

Very hesitant on these banshee changes if im honest. Locking down enemies outside your teams vision is even more enfuriating than killing them. Add the that how affinity works. Banshees teammates will now have to chase her butt around the map when she goes to collect loot just to keep getting xp. 

As for the ember changes, halving the range on wof is going to severly hurt mine. I don't run extended range so now halving my range will pretty much only kill enemies right on top of me which my melee weapon does better

[Edzhang]

Love most of the changes..

- please give a long duration on atlas’s rubble (like 12s for each rubble), i want my atlas to be tanky long enough, cause rock supposed to be hard..

- so many players asked for this, please let us change chroma’s energy in mission..

- mag’s pull need to be tweaked a bit to have some synergy with magnetize.. 

and again, thx for the rework.. so many good things here..

[Sannidor]

Will Zephyr be able to cast Dive Bomb from standard jumps?

I hope she will, alright :)

[Foberon]

I m so happy with what i ve seen so far!! I also watch the stream i have seen some of it in action and i love the direction their going with Zephyr!!

Her first if you charge it makes you hover in the air for (either a set duration or based on how much you have charged it thats what Rebeca said) one or the other! And its a combined tailwind and divemomb which they make room for a new power!!!

We didnt see much of her second new ability not even the animation just that it makes tornadoes bigger, which i dont know what that means they didnt say. The only hint i think is that she said it will be an air slice type of attack.

They also didnt say anything about turbulance, which means they didnt touch it!

Many improvement for her tornadoes!!! They no longer throw enemies all over the place they keep them inside, the nearest also follows you you mouse cursor, you deal 100% of your weapon damage on all the enemies that tornadoes have cced just by hitting the tornado!!! They also get bigger with her second ability which as i said above i dont know what it means..

plus i think they said that all of her abilities will cost less power while airborn maybe its an addition to her curent passive!

Im so excited cant wait to play her!!!!

[Vogue]

8 minutes ago, mkoo33 said:

"The problem is that what those powerful people are looking for is most efficiently obtained in lower level areas."
 

Well, "the problem" as you stated it..  it's not a problem at all.
Running a level 10 exterminate alert for a reward that i want... even though i did the mission hundred of times and it's boring, what am i supposed to do, take  limbo and a mk1 braton  to make the gameplay more interesting ? it wont.. 

So the real problem is that "we deserve a challenge"  !

the problem is players wanted to work on 1 warframe and 1 alone, they do not adjust to the content they are doing.

 

Like I wont go into a spy sortie as a ember, I would look for a stealth frame for it, or go into a defense as some squishy warframe and zero defensive or shield to protect us.

 

Everyone is complaining about ember not doing anything on sortie, but with the right group and weapons, she can do them just fine

[FeatherSigil]

I'd like to first express my gratitude for the Mag changes to come. Energy pool increase, Polarize buff, Crush being an additional source of shield restore / overshield creation on top of Polarize--all good stuff.

However, I think some small QoL improvements and one major addition to Crush can make her kit much more attractive (pun intended) to players. Most of these changes don't require the creation of any new tech or visual effects.

 

PULL

1. Moves shards towards Mag (from any direction, not just Pull's area of effect). This gives the player a degree of control over where the shards end up and ensures that less of them simply lay on the ground wasted. The tech for this already exists with Greedy Pull. Just make it apply to Pull independent of the augment so that Greedy Pull doesn't become a functionality tax.

2. Has a 100% chance to generate energy orbs for enemies it kills. Those energy orbs are attracted to Mag for convenience (the tech for this already exists with the various Vacuum effects throughout the game). Pull's damage is so low, especially as enemy durability improves, that it's highly unlikely this could become overpowered. Instead, because Mag is such an energy-hungry frame, this change would encourage players in mid-to-high-level content and beyond to watch enemy health closely, exploit the bonus damage from Magnetize and use Pull at the right moments as a killing blow in addition to its already effective crowd control potential. The skill of setting up enemies for this and having the right timing leads to the energy reward.

 

MAGNETIZE

1. If you Pull an enemy and they fly into a Magnetize bubble, they get stuck in it. The way things are right now you can outright Pull an enemy through a Magnetize bubble when what you really want is to add enemies into it. They can get stuck in the bubble, but only if you're lucky that they hit the ground within the bubble.

2. If you Pull shards (see above) and they move through a Magnetize bubble, they get added to it instead of continuing towards Mag. Like the Pull change listed above, this gives the player more control over their shards.

3. Bubbles attract shards to themselves within a small radius. The tech for this already exists with Vauban's Vortex. We want shards in bubbles, this helps that.

 

CRUSH

1. This is my big idea for Crush, one I've presented in the forums before: Singularity. (Formerly known as Trash Compactor)

This is not an augment. This is not a statistical increase to Crush. All this is, is an alteration to how Crush's crowd control works, which could be an alternative to or inclusion with the shield restore.

-At each damage tick, Crush moves all enemies affected by it, and all shards within its radius that are not within a Magnetize bubble, to a magnetic well: a single point in front of Mag. They're still levitated and unable to do anything. The tech for this already exists with Nidus' Larva. You don't necessarily have to create any new visual effects for the magnetic well, since the enemies moving to one point would already convey what's going on.

-When the ability ends--when Mag presses her hands together--the magnetic well rapidly descends to the ground. All the enemies affected by Crush are violently compacted--or crushed, if you will--into the ground, while all the shards are deposited beneath them. The same knockdown effect happens, but now all the enemies are clustered together in one location.

-This has a number of synergistic effects with the rest of Mag's kit, which I'll list below.

 

Pull + Crush: Gather enemies closer to make it easier for Crush to collect them and soften them up before the big damage.

Crush + Pull: Gather all your enemies into a single point, then send them flying for additional crowd control and comedic value.

Magnetize + Crush: Drop your enemies into an existing bubble... (and then Crush them again for the bonus damage)

Crush + Magnetize: ...or create a new bubble with plenty of victims ready for slaughter. (and then Crush them again for the bonus damage)

Crush + Magnetize + Polarize: Gather your enemies, create a bubble ensnaring them all, then Polarize them to add plenty of shards for more damage as well as the shield/armour explosions. (and then Crush them again for the bonus damage)

Polarize + Crush: Weaken your enemies before Crushing them.

Crush + Polarize: Gather your enemies together, then Polarize them for a massive series of shield/armour explosions and plenty of shard generation for Magnetize.

 

-This modification to Crush also aids team play in the same way Nidus' Larva does, bringing enemies into a single location (which can itself also be a zone occupied by other warframe abilities, creating further team synergy) and making them easier to shoot or stab en masse.

-Many have asked for Polarize to scale. I agree with this, but my proposed Crush modification would help address that because of the Crush + Polarize combo: we would see improved performance from Polarize because the targets would already be close together, facilitating the explosions from Polarize.

Edited February 3, 2018 by FeatherSigil
Typos

[Stoner]

26 minutes ago, malekas said:

"don't even try her out" 

 

2000 hours in game and she's my second most used frame, please try again. 

Mhm, then you know exactly what I'm talking about. 

[hodagacz]

1 minute ago, Vogue said:

the problem is players wanted to work on 1 warframe and 1 alone, they do not adjust to the content they are doing.

 

Like I wont go into a spy sortie as a ember, I would look for a stealth frame for it, or go into a defense as some squishy warframe and zero defensive or shield to protect us.

 

Everyone is complaining about ember not doing anything on sortie, but with the right group and weapons, she can do them just fine

At the moment she can.

[jiminatorx]

(old) Banshee resonating quake: energy cost increases, area of effect increases, damage increases

Ember WoF: energy cost doubles, area of effect gets cut to 1/3, damage doubles

Edited February 3, 2018 by jiminatorx

[ADDgamer45]

8 minutes ago, mkoo33 said:

"The problem is that what those powerful people are looking for is most efficiently obtained in lower level areas."
 

Well, "the problem" as you stated it..  it's not a problem at all.
Running a level 10 exterminate alert for a reward that i want... even though i did the mission hundred of times and it's boring, what am i supposed to do, take  limbo and a mk1 braton  to make the gameplay more interesting ? it wont.. 

So the real problem is that "we deserve a challenge"  !

The majority of complaints about ember and banshee being too powerful are from the players who want to play the whole mission not just sit back and let them do the work and get experience from it. Long time players tend to not worry about that so much. If you better the gains further into the game you will get 1 less complaints about the passive farming and you can also work on getting further into the late game content.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Atlas petrify needs to be an aura. Something that can buff u, ur rumblers, ur wall, and ur allies without impairing vision or having to turn it on and off or wrry eith activating it constantly. Plus, rubble should be able to be vacumned with ur sentinels.

[GoodOldLeon]

Much of the things said about WoF can be said about Peacemaker too. It's an incrediblly powerful and boring skill to use. I don't think it needs a nerf though, but it surely needs to work differently.

[TrinXT]

8 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

incorrect. they're both support frames. They both offer cc, maneuverability, and enhanced speed. Only difference is, one is objectively better than the other. anything zephyr can do, Titania can do better in spades. I want that fixed.

Air burst might end up being amazing for cc and the extra size it gives to Tornadoes might make them better for cc too, possibly made better when combined with the 12 Tornadoes from the Funnel clouds augment, if it works with that. Tornadoes damage sounds like it might be pretty high now since firing into it deals 100% of the shots damage to all enemies inside of the Tornado while also dealing the damage/status from Tornadoes. The charged effect and hover effect on Tailwind might increase speed and manoeuvrability, idk. We'll have to test the changes to know if they're good or not. Either way the changes are still subject to change, so at least test them out before you decide they aren't good enough.

[ADDgamer45]

They tried to solve ember by turning her into banshee. But ember doesn't have silence or resonance to fall back on. Plus banshee's passive.

[Cytobel]

Errrmmm....  Okay, so I'm going to say this now:  NERFING Discharge is going to simply revert Volt to Speed build and dank Sanic memes ONLY!!!  Buffing the damage IS NOT NEEDED AT THE COST OF LOCKDOWN, AS DAMAGE DOES NOT SCALE!

I STRONGLY recommend a review of Volt's other powers if you're going to touch Discharge in this fashion.  Better still, there are at LEAST 30 PAGES of strong recommendations in the 104 (and STILL growing) pages of the Rework Megathread.

I ask you to consider not killing ranged ability on Volt if you had any intention of Volt doing ANYTHING but ONE BUILD, and a build that's HORRIBLY DISRUPTIVE to other players at that.  Speed build causes constant complaints from other players, is severely and hideously disruptive to new players (from personal experience with new players in my Clan, and I'm not even running Blind Rage or Augur Secrets on my Speed build), and is a consequence of marginalized abilities in the rest of his kit.  Better still, you still can use Electric Shield in Speed build, so WHY BOTHER WITH SHOCK OR DISCHARGE?  Guns scale, these abilities do not!

You just signed up for another Volt rework with this idea, y'all DO realize this, right?

------------------------------------------

Okay, it may sound as if I'm being hyper-critical of this one change, but I've put more playtime into Volt than many of Digital Extreme's emplyoees COMBINED.  I've been in mission with Volt for better than 1000 hours OF MY LIFE, and I have a vague idea of where some problems are:

-He NEEDS a Speed that scales less strongly with Power Strength, has higher initial effect, and has better base duration.  This would encourage new players to use Speed and make Volt more approachable, without buffing or encouraging the Speed build.  Ideally this would feel about the same as Speed does now at around 200% Strength or so.

-He NEEDS a meaningful interaction between Shock and Discharge, as well as between Shock and Speed.  If Shock is to be a keystone ability, then lets see something happening between Shock and Speed!

-He NEEDS (as the non-Primed version) at least 65 Armor and 225 energy at level 30, and BOTH Primed and non-Primed Volt need to see a bump to base Sprint Speed (probably at least to 1.2 or 1.25).  These statline changes are based off of new player experiences I've seen collected over the years, as well as my own experiences with Volt.  The numbers are a bit spitball, but I'd wager they're CLOSE to the right point.

-And finally, Volt NEEDS some measure of scalability with his damage skills.  I'd recommend some sort of interaction between Shock and Discharge to start, something between Speed and Shock (casting Shock while Speed is active triggers a Ball Lightning maybe?), and some kind of utility to casting Shock and Discharge against foes that are at higher levels (such as a resist debuff, knockdown, or disable).  The logic here is to encourage players to look at other options than Speed build.

EDIT:  The Zephyr changes sound...  interesting.  I will note that you need to be able to do more than look STRAIGHT DOWN to pop a Dive Bomb.  Looking away from enemies is NOT GOOD IN WARFRAME, and looking STRAIGHT DOWN is kind of not as workable as you assume (read the many Ground Slam melee threads if you don't believe me),

Also, I saw that the damage cap was being removed for Discharge.  The fact that this is happening could mean that there would be a minimum duration for lockdown.  I hope this is the case.  DE, please verify, it'd help all the Volts' blood pressures.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Cytobel

[PR1D3]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

Perhaps you can explain this.

Impact potentially throwing enemies away is bad (let's just ignore people reacting to Sonicor). Pull and Ripline are too powerful and make people go way past your feet, so you have to chase them down.

Why would I ever use Push? How would Push be different from Sonic Boom?

I kind of already did.

" It would make it to where you could pull stray shards to Magnetized bubbles. Or something even crazier, the ability to magnetize the shards to you to maybe boost your defenses or storing them to eventually shoot them, like a shotgun spread, back at enemies to damage, knockdown, blow back, and/or throw shards into bubbles to make them stronger.

Still having a CC utility while also having the extra damage potential and more importantly pick up stray shards, so they won't go to waste, not it bubbles to put them in bubbles to make the magnetize DoT and Explosion stronger.

And to a certain extent it would and is, sonic boom. A cheap, spamable cc ability, with the caveat of that it has certain extra qualities that go well with the rest of Mag's abilities.

Edited February 3, 2018 by PR1D3

[schilds]

Her problem end-game is staying alive, not damage.

[ObviousLee]

3 minutes ago, TrinXT said:

Air burst might end up being amazing for cc and the extra size it gives to Tornadoes might make them better for cc too, possibly made better when combined with the 12 Tornadoes from the Funnel clouds augment, if it works with that. Tornadoes damage sounds like it might be pretty high now since firing into it deals 100% of the shots damage to all enemies inside of the Tornado while also dealing the damage/status from Tornadoes. The charged effect and hover effect on Tailwind might increase speed and manoeuvrability, idk. We'll have to test the changes to know if they're good or not. Either way the changes are still subject to change, so at least test them out before you decide they aren't good enough.

you're right on the we gotta wait and see, and I was pretty happy with the ult change as it's effectively the mechanic I created in my rework post a while back, but I still feel it's not enough. She needs some form of sustained flight.

[Trichouette]

Il y a 5 heures, [DE]Connor a dit :

ASH

Bladestorm - Upon activating Bladestorm, Ash’s clones will do the stabbing, leaving the player free to act. Ash can choose to join in the execution by using Teleport on a marked enemy.

Great, finally, not stuck watching ash doing all the work.

I'll miss my popcorn though.

Il y a 5 heures, [DE]Connor a dit :

Rubble (new mechanic) - Comes from killing petrified enemies. Atlas collects rubble to restore his health, or temporarily increase armor if already at max health.

As I suggested in the Prime time thread, I would suggest granting him a bit of (flat) energy regen per rubble picked up. Simply because using petrify all the time is going to be a pain for the energy pool.

ALSO PLEASE tweak down petrify's brightness, it's blinding for your teamates.

Il y a 5 heures, [DE]Connor a dit :

Resonating Quake (augment) - Upon cast, places a Quake that does not require channeling to maintain, meaning Banshee can move freely. Has a short duration, and does not move with the player. Has double the range of a regular Soundquake, but does more damage near the center.

Why not make the base ability like this instead of keeping it on an augment ?

Being afk on the ground for so long kinda goes against "fast paced gameplay" don't you think ?

Il y a 5 heures, [DE]Connor a dit :

Spectral Scream - Removed walk speed and jump restrictions You can now freely move while this is active! Damage output is now also affected by the Vex Armor's Fury bonus!

Sorry but I still won't use it.

If I wanted a flamethrower, I would pick ignis.

And the ONE THING every player is asking is to be able to switch element during mission.

Also I was kinda expecting a change to his 4th ability but well, vex armor's changes are great.

 

Gara and ember's change seem nice, it won't fix ember destroying everything, but it's a great idea in my opinion.

I don't see how that'll make mag any better though, shield is still worthless and that frame relies on it a lot.

 

However, I still don't see why you (and players) want to hold on zephyr's passive & first and second abilites (and them merging)

Well tweaks are better than nothing after all.

[ADDgamer45]

This locks embers gameplay to running in trying to get a few kills while you have energy. Then running back out trying not to catch a stray bullet.

Edited February 3, 2018 by ADDgamer45

[ZephyrPrime]

Oh... Oh yes.

[Shadedraxe]

I’m liking Atlas’s synergy. But petrify still limits movement (and you’re doing away with that restriction on spectral scream for Chroma, but not petrify for Atlas?). And petrify still makes it too difficult to see what’s going on in front of you when using brighter energy colors.

And rock wall, even with the boosted health, is a small and really bad at defending anything wall. Considering the augment gets rid of the boulder that could be made decent with petrify’s velocity and damage boost, I don’t see much of a good use for the wall itself. You could argue it’s great for blocking a door way. But that slows enemies and you can’t shoot through rock wall. It’s as annoying as a frost making choke points in enemy spawn points in defense. It’s not fun when it hinders allies from shooting enemies. Snow globe is however a great bunker when maintained by a frost instead of left somewhere in the field. I would love it if Rock wall was wider and shaped in a semi-circle Instead of a flat wall. Allowing to be used more like a small bunker for you and allies to stand behind. Then if only it had some holes or cracks for atlas and allies to see enemies on the other side (enemies still can’t shoot through them). And if atlas and allies shot at rock wall it would blast rock chunk projectiles from the other side that would deal decent damage but most importantly knock enemies down and propel them away, allowing rock wall to add some more defensive utility against enemies on the other side of the wall (more for defensive purposes than volt’s offensive shield). This way atlas could bunker down in front of a defense pod/target and shoot and propel away enemies coming close (this way it won’t be dramatically outshined by snow globe, stasis cataclysm, and the new glass wall, unless it remains as just a wall for minimal blocking defense).  And just a fun idea, what if Atlas could bullet jump into rock wall and initiate the boulder and take control of it during its duration, also giving atlas rubble upon exiting the exploding boulder. This way Atlas can control the the position of where enemies get knocked away to. This also allows atlas to at least be able to initiate the boulder manually up close when using the augment, while still having two other walls used by allies to defend a target (only atlas could initiate and enter the boulder).

also about the proposed changes to rumblers, I’m loving the aoe petrify blast on cast and the fact that rumblers leave rubble. But will the rumblers themselves be good at dealing damage and will they actually be able to pull agro? Otherwise I’d probably just end up casting and uncasting them for the aoe blast and the instant rubble. What is giving me an incentive to keep the rumblers out? Why should I babysit them and heal them with petrify if they still do poor damage and don’t pull agro away well from you and other players?

[mkoo33]

Just now, ADDgamer45 said:

The majority of complaints about ember and banshee being too powerful are from the players who want to play the whole mission not just sit back and let them do the work and get experience from it. Long time players tend to not worry about that so much. If you better the gains further into the game you will get 1 less complaints about the passive farming and you can also work on getting further into the late game content.

Agreed.

The real problem as i said before is that DE doesn't care for long time players.
The players who want to play the whole mission.. :) The same mission they did hundreds of time..
I don't see any MR 5 and above so keen on doing that. I repeat myself, the missions are boring. Most of the time i play solo for some components i need, but lately i am asking myself why do i do that ? 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Also, plz give mag more energy.

I have a negative range ember build... How will these changes effect that?

Zephyr changes sound epic!