Update 22.12.0: Weapons Changes Feedback Megathread

[Eljureo]

11 hours ago, Doomsknight said:

This is the best update ever, along with the beam weapon buff. Can't wait to see the upcoming melee balance patch ! (Please buff those good old melees like Mire, Ether series, Fang Prime, etc)

This, I wonder what kind of wicked stats will fang prime need?

[DrBorris]

After using the new Ignis... what? Hell no, Ignis was overall buffed.

[Ham_Grenabe]

27 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

After using the new Ignis... what? Hell no, Ignis was overall buffed.

Yeah, I was using my Ignis Wraith yesterday, and it's been buffed enough that I felt like I was cheating.

[Trentiel]

Alright let's talk about the Convectrix. See this wiki link for it's exact stats.

It's a weird beam based shotgun, with base physical damage, and a unique "scissor beam" mechanic.

As you start to fire, the two beams aiming out to the left and right sides, converge in the middle. Forming a solid beam. It has an alt fire, that does the reverse, starting from a forward position moving out to the sides. This firing method effectively makes this a beam weapon with a spool up time, and a slight amount of spread.

From what I could tell, Convectrix was designed for the player to feather the trigger, causing the beams to converge and separate like scissors. This spread the damage out among targets in an area, or kept it focused for single targets. You could control your spread.

However, it's awkward, because once the beams move out away from the aiming reticle, Convectrix loses almost all functionality as a gun. Guns fire where you aim. Convectrix does not. It fires off to the side, and decidedly not where you aim... until a second or so later. Effectively making it a beam weapon that has spool up time. Why? Honestly it's kind of a mystery. It feels as though it's a practical joke. Like some Corpus engineer has his buddy test his newest invention, laughing when the guy can't hit anything because the beams don't go where you aim. Then they decided to sell it to the Tenno. "HA! That'll show them for murdering us by the thousands every day!"

I've seen many complaints about the Convectrix. The number one complaint I see repeatedly is something along the lines of "why does the gun keep firing after I let off the trigger." Well obviously, this complaint doesn't consider the scissor beam mechanic. But it does illustrate just how weird and dysfunctional Convectrix's design is. It's not intuitive.

After the Beam Weapon Adjustments.

A few undocumented changes to the Convectrix were made in Hotfix 22.13.3.

-When you let off the trigger, the beams just stop firing completely. Rather than moving back to their starting point, they just shut off. Disallowing the trigger-feathering scissor-beam gameplay.

-The Alt-fire consumes much more ammo than normal fire. When you hold it down, it also shows an incorrect maximum ammo.

These seem like bugs, or a misguided attempt to address common complaints about the gun. I had believed before Convectrix was designed as a practical joke, and then forgotten. But with these changes, it's genuinely busted. Can we get a little attention on this poor orphaned gun. Can someone find a niche for it to fill?

Just some suggestions.

I propose a few changes that could make the Convectrix really interesting.

1. Return the old trigger feathering scissor beam functionality. At the very least, that was a kind of fun. Not ideal, frankly even that was still really awkward. A gun that doesn't fire straight is not a very useful gun.

2. Make the beams move in and out automatically while firing. At very high speeds, like some kind of image scanner of death. Alt-fire could be a toggle, wide vs narrow. Letting you flip it on the fly, while you're firing.

3. Make the space between the two beams solid. Like one big fat flat beam. But with a very short range like 12 meters, extending the range to a full 25 meters as the beams narrow with the alt-fire. Like the second suggestion, alt-fire would simply toggle between two states, and the margins of the beam would move into their new position over a period of time.

This is a picture I drew like... a year ago? The notes on the side are kind of out-dated. But it illustrates a thought.

[Pyradus]

Agreed. I was greatly disappointed when the beam changes did not fix the fundamental problems with this gun. Personally I feel like it should just fire a large spread laser like the Fluctus. Or, with the severe penalties to the usage of the gun, the base stats should be greatly increased.

Edited February 22, 2018 by CapnToaster

[rapt0rman]

I could seriously get behind a beam Drakgoon, makes perfect sense to me.

[Azamagon]

There is one thing from the new beam-update that makes ANY kind of "scissoring"-mechanic useless for beam-weapons anyway, and that's this:

"Perfect accuracy and high fire rate is balanced by limited range and damage ramping up from 10% to 100% over 0.8 seconds when firing and decays back to 10% over 1 second after stopping."

^ That needs to go first, before even planning anything interesting for the Convectrix's unique mechanics.

EDIT; Love your idea #3 though, wouldn't mind that change at all. Your idea #2 also sounds quite cool, but #3 seems easier to create (and is probably more practical too).

Edited February 22, 2018 by Azamagon

[TheGrimCorsair]

31 minutes ago, Trentiel said:

Alright let's talk about the Convectrix. See this wiki link for it's exact stats.

It's a weird beam based shotgun, with base physical damage, and a unique "scissor beam" mechanic.

As you start to fire, the two beams aiming out to the left and right sides, converge in the middle. Forming a solid beam. It has an alt fire, that does the reverse, starting from a forward position moving out to the sides. This firing method effectively makes this a beam weapon with a spool up time, and a slight amount of spread.

From what I could tell, Convectrix was designed for the player to feather the trigger, causing the beams to converge and separate like scissors. This spread the damage out among targets in an area, or kept it focused for single targets. You could control your spread.

However, it's awkward, because once the beams move out away from the aiming reticle, Convectrix loses almost all functionality as a gun. Guns fire where you aim. Convectrix does not. It fires off to the side, and decidedly not where you aim... until a second or so later. Effectively making it a beam weapon that has spool up time. Why? Honestly it's kind of a mystery. It feels as though it's a practical joke. Like some Corpus engineer has his buddy test his newest invention, laughing when the guy can't hit anything because the beams don't go where you aim. Then they decided to sell it to the Tenno. "HA! That'll show them for murdering us by the thousands every day!"

I've seen many complaints about the Convectrix. The number one complaint I see repeatedly is something along the lines of "why does the gun keep firing after I let off the trigger." Well obviously, this complaint doesn't consider the scissor beam mechanic. But it does illustrate just how weird and dysfunctional Convectrix's design is. It's not intuitive.

After the Beam Weapon Adjustments.

A few undocumented changes to the Convectrix were made in Hotfix 22.13.3.

-When you let off the trigger, the beams just stop firing completely. Rather than moving back to their starting point, they just shut off. Disallowing the trigger-feathering scissor-beam gameplay.

-The Alt-fire consumes much more ammo than normal fire. When you hold it down, it also shows an incorrect maximum ammo.

These seem like bugs, or a misguided attempt to address common complaints about the gun. I had believed before Convectrix was designed as a practical joke, and then forgotten. But with these changes, it's genuinely busted. Can we get a little attention on this poor orphaned gun. Can someone find a niche for it to fill?

Just some suggestions.

I propose a few changes that could make the Convectrix really interesting.

1. Return the old trigger feathering scissor beam functionality. At the very least, that was a kind of fun. Not ideal, frankly even that was still really awkward. A gun that doesn't fire straight is not a very useful gun.

2. Make the beams move in and out automatically while firing. At very high speeds, like some kind of image scanner of death. Alt-fire could be a toggle, wide vs narrow. Letting you flip it on the fly, while you're firing.

3. Make the space between the two beams solid. Like one big fat flat beam. But with a very short range like 12 meters, extending the range to a full 25 meters as the beams narrow with the alt-fire. Like the second suggestion, alt-fire would simply toggle between two states, and the margins of the beam would move into their new position over a period of time.

This is a picture I drew like... a year ago? The notes on the side are kind of out-dated. But it illustrates a thought.

Gimme idea number 3. Do want. Please. It'd be like a beam version of Arca Plasmor.

[bad4youLT]

Id prefer if its firing mechanic could be toggleable using alt-fire , same for phage

[Trentiel]

1 hour ago, Azamagon said:

There is one thing from the new beam-update that makes ANY kind of "scissoring"-mechanic useless for beam-weapons anyway, and that's this:

"Perfect accuracy and high fire rate is balanced by limited range and damage ramping up from 10% to 100% over 0.8 seconds when firing and decays back to 10% over 1 second after stopping."

^ That needs to go first, before even planning anything interesting for the Convectrix's unique mechanics.

EDIT; Love your idea #3 though, wouldn't mind that change at all. Your idea #2 also sounds quite cool, but #3 seems easier to create (and is probably more practical too).

That cool down mechanic is a bit odd. I'm not sure what problem it solves exactly. If anyone knows why it was introduced, or for what reason it was given. I'd love to know.

Maybe tapping the trigger allowed you to do damage without spending ammo? Or something? So they needed a mechanic to force the player to use the beam in continuous fire?

And thanks for your support of this idea. I hope it's seen. Convectrix does at least need these 2 undocumented bugs addressed. It's such a cool looking gun with a great reload animation.

As a way to address under-used guns, Rebecca and Megan should do a challenge to play with the guns that sit at the bottom of the player-used stats.

[Trentiel]

Oh. This needs to be pointed out.

Hotfix 22.13.4

• Convectrix Alt Fire Beams now continuously Sweep back and forth.
• Fixed the Convectrix showing different Ammo types between fire modes. (Alt-fire is now using Shotgun shells like Primary fire)
• Fixed Convectrix beams visually crossing each other.

Well. I guess I have something to play with now.

[OvisCaedo]

So they made it sweep back and forth in the same patch that they're... making it so damage needs to ramp up individually for each target you want to hurt. I guess I have not tested it, but that SOUNDS pretty bad.

[MechaTails]

I tried to like this gun for a while, but could only make it work with a Sonar Banshee.

The scissoring action is fun, but really only ever useful against Infested mobs. Corpus and Grineer don't amass like that, they tend to be scattered, ironically making the wide sweeping beams more useless lol.

While I'm not opposed to having specialized weapons that are especially good against certain factions, I don't think the majority of the community feels that way because they start screaming to buff everything so it's OP against everything.

I think Convectrix can work as is, but it definitely needs tweaking. The constant "scanner from hell" effect between the two beams sounds like a good idea.

-----------------------

The Fluctus-like projectile-beam can be for a new weapon.

I'd like a new gun with a charge mechanic that fires a wide crescent projectile-beam. If you've ever played the NES Ninja Turtles game, there's a half-moon throwing weapon there that would make a good starting point for the feel this projectile-beam should have.

•Hold trigger to charge, release to launch a projectile beam.

•Longer charge causes a wider, and slower beam.

•The projectile-beam shoves enemies away, as if they were being pushed by a broom. Enemies are constantly damaged while touching the projectile-beam.

Edited February 23, 2018 by MechaTails

[Trentiel]

6 minutes ago, OvisCaedo said:

So they made it sweep back and forth in the same patch that they're... making it so damage needs to ramp up individually for each target you want to hurt. I guess I have not tested it, but that SOUNDS pretty bad.

When you put it like that, holy cow, that's silly. If it really works that way... the Convectrix firing mechanic is at complete odds with the continuous-fire beam damage mechanic.

If this is true. I think we maybe need to push this a bit harder.

Beam weapons need to be able to hit things consistently.

4 minutes ago, MechaTails said:

I tried to like this gun for a while, but could only make it work with a Sonar Banshee.

The scissoring action is fun, but really only ever useful against Infested mobs. Corpus and Grineer don't amass like that, they tend to be scattered, ironically making the wide sweeping beams more useless lol.

While I'm not opposed to having specialized weapons that are especially good against certain factions, I don't think the majority of the community feels that way because they start screaming to buff everything so it's OP against everything.

I think Convectrix can work as is, but it definitely needs tweaking. The Fluctus-like beam can be for a new weapon.

I'd like a new gun with a charge mechanic that fires a wide crescent beam. If you've ever played the NES Ninja Turtles game, there's a half-moon throwing weapon there that would make a good starting point for the feel this crescent beam should have. Hold trigger to charge, release to hurl a beam that devastates everything in its path. Longer charge causes a wider, and slower beam. Make the beam shove enemies back when it touches them, that way it can hit them multiple times. Multishot would increase the amount of times the enemy is shoved back.

I Just want a gun that fires where I aim. A big flat short range beam, isn't really like the Fluctus. It's a beam, not a projectile.

 

[MechaTails]

Look up a video of the TMNT weapon, it's a "projectile beam", exactly like the Fluctus.

Though it emphasizes how careful we have to be with the terms we use when talking about this stuff since the same term can mean different things.

EDIT: I updated the post with clearer terms. Now it would work like a [unorthodox] beam, dealing constant damage as long as it's touching the enemy.

Edited February 23, 2018 by MechaTails

[Trentiel]

So a few things

• The beam turning off immediately when you release the trigger is still in place. Which removes precise scissor-beam game-play.
• It is true that beams require training on a single enemy to ramp up their damage to 100%. So the alt-fire, which now moves the beam back and forth, doing only 10% of the damage you'd get when trained on a single enemy.
• The beam moves slowly back and forth, but not slow enough to ever train on a enemy long enough to build up to 100% damage, and not fast enough to keep the damage from resetting back to 10% on the next pass.
• Because the beam is able to hit stuff in the middle repeatedly a bit easier than the outside, you caaaan over a long time, ramp up damage on enemies directly in front of you. But the alt-fire is still under powered even in ideal simulacrum situations.

In conclusion. Convectrix is still a practical joke gun. It does do damage, it is functional, if you use it like a standard beam weapon. But the alt-fire is undermined by the beam ramp-up mechanics. It sacrifices your ability to hit anything directly in front of you, to do 10% of your damage to a crowd of enemies. Assuming the perfect situation where you have a full crowd to be hit by the sweeping laser.

I think disappointment is warranted.

[Acersecomic]

Let's be honest, as long as it has to focus in order to be useful, people are not gonna use it.

DE... this is a failed mechanic, please fix it, it is such a beautiful and powerful looking weapon.

[LuckyCharm]

Why not.. have the normal fire focused, and the alt fire do the scissors thing like it does. It would actually be so much better

[Urlan]

I used to use it before as well, not sure if I will use it much with its base damage reduced and this mechanic in place.

[Stoner]

Love the idea of either having a wide spread/ less range and a focused beam/ more range. I really hope DE sees this.

[(PSN)remo_yesman]

Upon careful examination,  it looks like the Ignis was buffed, but again, I use it for resource farming I dnt have a Limbo, hes kinda trolly.. Hopefully its still a effective box breaker..

[(PSN)remo_yesman]

9 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Yeah, I was using my Ignis Wraith yesterday, and it's been buffed enough that I felt like I was cheating.

Ay boss, when does the patch hit consoles..?

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

1 hour ago, Urlan said:

I used to use it before as well, not sure if I will use it much with its base damage reduced and this mechanic in place.

You do realize ALL beam weapons are monstrous now? In no conceivable way are any of them inferior to how they were #Facts

Edited February 23, 2018 by (PS4)LoisGordils

[Atalix]

I do agree the Convectix needs more work on how to be at least a more fun beam weapon to use.

I had a thought of how to improve it, allowing an increased firerate mod to increase the beam merger speed along the same idea of making them both appear one like a flat laser upon merge.  Given the Convectrix' alt-fire mechanic. Maybe increase speed of that function so in some way useful to increase spread for more coverage like a literal laser fan to sweep than trying to hit two precise targets with two thin beams.

I enjoy using my Convectrix when I can, I enjoy hearing that awesome firing sound effect though. ^^

[Urlan]

2 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

You do realize ALL beam weapons are monstrous now? In no conceivable way are any of them inferior to how they were #Facts

That would be a matter of opinion, some are better yes. But I would wait until you have them before you; on console to make that final judgement call. Until then, seeing us work through these issues with input from the devs should help it be better for you so that is a good take-away at least.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Urlan