Shrine of the Eidolon: Hotfix 22.12.3

[Skaleek]

18 minutes ago, Wevi said:

 

•  A Toxin ancient's roar can bypass quickthinking insta killing your frame regardless if you had energy

.

This has been abug around since they added toxic barf to the toxic ancients. Actually, i dont think this is QT failing you, if you are going to take lethal (even after qt) damage, you go down and you skip losing the energy. Basically, its a feature, not a bug, and toxic barf off toxic ancient does -insane- damage. Toxic vs tenno is already 175%, and im fairly sure this abilities scaling is bananas.

[brewedjuice]

13 minutes ago, DemonikWarframe said:

Still no fix to volt discharge duration? Hello? Is that intended that you HALVED BASE duration of it, on top of HALVING its duration outside of close range, making it do at least 20% to 100% less damage, have at least 50% to 75% less duration and call it a BUFF? Revert it to what it was, kthnx.

i dont say revert the change, but it does seem like his base duration ate a nerf along with the range change. that being said my volt clears hydron in 2 discharge, so all they did was make a new banshee.

[RedToothKaki]

They mentioned a few dargyn fixes, however they hadn't mentioned a fix for if you have a sentinel on and exit the dargyn, your sentinel will attempt to destroy the dargyn. Me personally I normally run diriga with vulklok, sooo my diriga will instantly destroy the dargyn... which sucks because how am I gonna get back to the gate after I'm done fishing :[

[TyrianMollusk]

16 minutes ago, Neightrix said:

Still need Rubble to be vacuum-able.

EDIT: Better yet, make it not a drop at all. Altas should simply get it.

Also needs higher armor cap.

They definitely should not solve this with vacuum, since Atlas players may want pets.

Maybe rubble should just creep towards Atlas all the time, and then give him a modest rubble pickup radius.

[Perekta]

Syandanas are still bending weirdly on many frames like there's an invisible bump on their back. It's been like this since for months so I hope it's not intended, because it makes some syandana frame combos look terrible.

[Dracario]

22 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Atlas Change:

• Reduced the decay rate of Atlas’ Rubble by half.

Thanks DE, the rate of decay was absurd.

[shootaman777]

Not going to revert the nerf to drop rates of Axi vaulted relics from bounties?  

As mentioned in: (https://forums.warframe.com/topic/916854-vaulted-relics-in-poe-bounties-and-syndicate-packs/):

 

"

According to update 22.12 patch notes (https://forums.warframe.com/topic/918482-shrine-of-the-eidolon-update-22120/)

 

"

 

• Prime Vault Bounty Relics in Stage 1 have been moved to be rewarded in Stage 2 and weighted accordingly amongst the other Stages. It’s worth noting that Bounty Stage 5 now yields the highest chance of getting a Vaulted Relic. Our intentions here are to alleviate players abandoning the Bounty after the first Stage.

"

Upon some calculation (done for vaulted Axi relics in bounty 5), I found something eye-opening in the post-change odds of getting vaulted relics. 

I used Desmos calculator to do the math, so there were no significant mathematical errors, and since I copy+pasted these values you see here into Desmos, there is no chance of improperly entering values (https://www.desmos.com/scientific).  If you believe my numbers are wrong, double check them as I did - you'll find out that they're not wrong: 

((100-33.04)*(100-33.04)*(100-27.54)*(100-43.18))/(100*100*100*100) = 0.18459946968492 = odds of getting no relics
((100-33.04)*(100-33.04)*(27.54)*(100-43.18))/(100*100*100*100) = 0.070161046027085 = odds of getting 1 relic from stage 4
((100-33.04)*(100-33.04)*(100-27.54)*(43.18))/(100*100*100*100) = 0.14028520065108 = odds of getting 1 relic from stage 5
((33.04)*(100-33.04)*(100-27.54)*(100-43.18))/(100*100*100*100) = 0.091086715627085 = odds of getting 1 relic from stage 2
((100-33.04)*(33.04)*(100-27.54)*(100-43.18))/(100*100*100*100) = 0.091086715627085 = odds of getting 1 relic from stage 3
((33.04)*(33.04)*(100-27.54)*(100-43.18))/(100*100*100*100) = 0.044944819060915 = odds of getting 2 relics from stages 2 and 3
((33.04)*(100-33.04)*(27.54)*(100-43.18))/(100*100*100*100) = 0.034619488660915 = odds of getting 2 relics from stages 2 and 4
((33.04)*(100-33.04)*(100-27.54)*(43.18))/(100*100*100*100) = 0.069220774036915 = odds of getting 2 relics from stages 2 and 5
((100-33.04)*(33.04)*(27.54)*(100-43.18))/(100*100*100*100) = 0.034619488660915 = odds of getting 2 relics from stages 3 and 4
((100-33.04)*(33.04)*(100-27.54)*(43.18))/(100*100*100*100) = 0.069220774036915 = odds of getting 2 relics from stages 3 and 5
((100-33.04)*(100-33.04)*(27.54)*(43.18))/(100*100*100*100) = 0.053318443636915 = odds of getting 2 relics from stages 4 and 5
((33.04)*(33.04)*(27.54)*(100-43.18))/(100*100*100*100) = 0.017082256651085 = odds of getting 3 relics from stages 2/3/4
((33.04)*(33.04)*(100-27.54)*(43.18))/(100*100*100*100) = 0.034155531275085 = odds of getting 3 relics from stages 2/3/5
((33.04)*(100-33.04)*(27.54)*(43.18))/(100*100*100*100) = 0.026308861675085 = odds of getting 3 relics from stages 2/4/5
((100-33.04)*(33.04)*(27.54)*(43.18))/(100*100*100*100) = 0.026308861675085 = odds of getting 3 relics from stages 3/4/5
((33.04)*(33.04)*(27.54)*(43.18))/(100*100*100*100) = 0.012981553012915 = odds of getting 4 relics

(odds of getting <1 (0) relics) = 0.18459946968492
(odds of getting 1 relic) = 0.070161046027085 + 0.14028520065108 + 0.091086715627085 + 0.091086715627085 = 0.39261967793233
(odds of getting <|= 1 relic) = 0.18459946968492 + 0.39261967793233 = 0.57721914761725
(odds of getting 2 relics) = 0.044944819060915 + 0.034619488660915 + 0.034619488660915 + 0.069220774036915 + 0.069220774036915 + 0.053318443636915 = 0.30594378809349
(odds of getting <|= 2 relics) = 0.57721914761725 + 0.30594378809349 = 0.88316293571074
(odds of getting 3 relics) = 0.017082256651085 + 0.034155531275085 + 0.026308861675085 + 0.026308861675085 = 0.10385551127634
(odds of getting <|= 3 relics) = 0.88316293571074 + 0.10385551127634 = 0.98701844698708
(odds of getting 4 relics) = 0.012981553012915
(odds of getting >|= 3 relics) = 0.012981553012915 + 0.10385551127634 = 0.11683706428925
(odds of getting >|= 2 relics) = 0.11683706428925 + 0.30594378809349 = 0.42278085238274
(odds of getting >|= 1 relic) = 1 - 0.18459946968492 = 0.81540053031508
 

**Note** - probabilities are expressed in decimal form with no rounding, or as intermediate values.  Additionally, these are calculations that take into account overall odds, not odds by each stage. 

Drop chances are from (https://n8k6e2y6.ssl.hwcdn.net/repos/hnfvc0o3jnfvc873njb03enrf56.html)

 

The way I see it, only 2 statistics from that matter:

(odds of getting >|= 1 relic) = 1 - 0.18459946968492 = 0.81540053031508

(odds of getting <1 (0) relics) = 0.18459946968492

 

The odds of getting at least 1 relic are 81.54% and the odds of getting 0 relics are 18.45%, post-change.  These numbers may look and sound good, but they're really not. 

 

Keep in mind that you're doing bounty 5 stage 1 essentially for free, getting nothing of worth for your troubles. 

Let's say that doing stage 1 of bounty 5, leaving to Cetus, going back to the Plains with the bounty queued up again, and reaching the bounty area again takes 1 1/3 of the amount of time that a bounty takes.  I'd say that's fairly accurate for someone with a good PC, good net, and who is running solo. 

This does not even consider that when only doing stage 1, the Tenno has the option of returning to Cetus and requeueing the bounty if stage 1 is a vault defense or liberation, making overall better time by requeueing and not wasting time in a long bounty. 

3 runs of bounty 5 stage 1 takes 4 bounty stages' worth of time, by the (4/3) conversion rate.  The 4th run of bounty 5 stage 1 will coincide with bounty 5's stage 5 by this metric.  Essentially, you get the same amount of rolls with either method in the same time, meaning that the odds are available to be directly compared. 

 

These are the pre-change stage 1 statistics of bounty 5, for 4 runs:

 

(50^4)/(100^4) =  0.0625 = odds of getting no relics
(50^4)/(100^4) =  0.0625 = odds of getting 1 relic from run 1
(50^4)/(100^4) =  0.0625 = odds of getting 1 relic from run 2
(50^4)/(100^4) =  0.0625 = odds of getting 1 relic from run 3
(50^4)/(100^4) =  0.0625 = odds of getting 1 relic from run 4
(50^4)/(100^4) =  0.0625 = odds of getting 2 relics from runs 1 and 2
(50^4)/(100^4) =  0.0625 = odds of getting 2 relics from runs 1 and 3
(50^4)/(100^4) =  0.0625 = odds of getting 2 relics from runs 1 and 4
(50^4)/(100^4) =  0.0625 = odds of getting 2 relics from runs 2 and 3
(50^4)/(100^4) =  0.0625 = odds of getting 2 relics from runs 2 and 4
(50^4)/(100^4) =  0.0625 = odds of getting 2 relics from runs 3 and 4
(50^4)/(100^4) =  0.0625 = odds of getting 3 relics from runs 1/2/3
(50^4)/(100^4) =  0.0625 = odds of getting 3 relics from runs 1/2/4
(50^4)/(100^4) =  0.0625 = odds of getting 3 relics from runs 1/3/4
(50^4)/(100^4) =  0.0625 = odds of getting 3 relics from runs 2/3/4
(50^4)/(100^4) =  0.0625 = odds of getting 4 relics

(odds of getting <1 (0) relics) = 0.0625
(odds of getting 1 relic) = 0.0625 * 4 = 0.2500
(odds of getting <|= 1 relic) = 0.0625 + 0.2500 = 0.3125
(odds of getting 2 relics) = 0.0625 * 6 = 0.3750
(odds of getting <|= 2 relics) = 0.3125 + 0.3750 = 0.6875
(odds of getting 3 relics) = 0.0625 * 4 = 0.2500
(odds of getting <|= 3 relics) =  0.2500 + 0.6875 = 0.9375
(odds of getting 4 relics) = 0.0625
(odds of getting >|= 3 relics) = 0.0625 + 0.2500 = 0.3125
(odds of getting >|= 2 relics) = 0.3125 + 0.3750 = 0.6875
(odds of getting >|= 1 relic) = 0.6875 + 0.2500 = 0.9375

The way I see it, only 2 statistics from that matter:

(odds of getting <1 (0) relics) = 0.0625

(odds of getting >|= 1 relic) = 0.6875 + 0.2500 = 0.9375

The odds of getting at least 1 relic were 93.75% and the odds of getting 0 relics were 6.25%, pre-change. 

However, if you recall what I just said, you'll be thinking about how the odds of getting at least 1 relic are 81.54% and the odds of getting 0 relics are 18.45%, after the supposed 'adjustments to weighting that were made accordingly' to the drop chances in order to 'alleviate' players. 

"

In other words, this was a direct nerf to the drop rates for Axi vaulted relics from bounties.  

Is there any plan to revert this nerf to the drop rates?  

[Sinnjid]

Now, while you're at it with making necessary improvements to Atlas's Rubble, could you possibly consider making Rubble affected by Vacuum? A brawler like Atlas shouldn't spend his time picking through corpses for rubble. This change would allow him to do what he does best: Punching things at any opportunity presented to him, and not worry about picking up shiny rocks.
On a similar note, you might want to buff Volt. You went overboard with the "balancing" you did. Finally, you missed two guns. The Mutalist Quanta and the Stug are busy crying in the corner, waiting for the day when they will finally be decent.
Oh, and, if you could, reconsider dropping raids. Eidolons are just a seven minute lightshow, and are nothing like Raids at all. The teamwork is missing, the meme runs and fun aren't there, and the overwhelmingly elitist recruiting chat teams are a mess.

[Neo_Ganryu]

Any chance you guys might be able to address this as well at some point? It would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Skaleek]

Why do we have to loot rubble? Take the worst thing about WF, and apply it to Atlas? No one likes playing find the item pickups.

[Vladinald_Trutin]

Spoiler

Is it possible to tone this down a little bit? 13 Dargyns while being undetected is a little bit much...

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

Still waiting for my Chroma fixes

[Chakravikari]

uhhhh

[kuryux]

DE, please consider fixing fishing bugs!

-Bait disappearing right after we drop it;
-Fish sometimes not spawning, even with proper bait, at the right time and place;
-Zipline fishing aim.

We all love fishing, but well love more with these fixed!

 

Also, please fix the press 5 to die! Thats a big gameplay issue.

[brewedjuice]

9 minutes ago, jiminatorx said:

not to worry, people have been complaining about frost, mesa and equinox spam. your favorite frame will be coming soon.

oberon? lel if they nerf oberon theres something wrong. my 2nd favorite is ember. so wrong again. im not even salty about the changes, i know how to play her. equinox is just gonna replace old ember if they dont nerf her, what else can they even do to mesa.. anything else would just make her garbage. i only really use her in index. and frost.. really? i dont see frost that consistantly, and only use him for mobile defense. try again m8.

[-AncientWarrior-]

4 minutes ago, yoshi245 said:

Working as intended. Seriously they need to rework current Vex armor again, it either does nothing despite having high values, or does barely anything (if it works) at same values.

Yep .. Even thou the Scorn and Fury % looks good .. the damage and armour buffs hardly do anything .. I understand they had to do something with Chroma's Vex but to gut him so badly is a big shame when they have just got more players use Chroma again .. silly move.. thou not surprising 

[Skaleek]

2 minutes ago, shootaman777 said:

The odds of getting at least 1 relic are 81.54% and the odds of getting 0 relics are 18.45%, post-change.  These numbers may look and sound good, but they're really not.

The odds of getting at least 1 relic are 93.75% and the odds of getting 0 relics are 6.25%. 

However, if you recall what I just said, you'll be thinking about how the odds of getting at least 1 relic are 81.54% and the odds of getting 0 relics are 18.45%, after the supposed 'adjustments that were made accordingly' to the drop chances in order to 'alleviate' players. 

"

In other words, this was a direct nerf to the drop rates for Axi vaulted relics from bounties.  

Is there any plan to revert this nerf to the drop rates?  

Thank you for doing some math and crunching numbers. I havent had a chance to check it (there's a lot there), but i hope people bring attention to this post. Much appreciated!

[brewedjuice]

Just now, Madas007 said:

Yep .. Even thou the Scorn and Fury % looks good .. the damage and armour buffs hardly do anything .. I understand they had to do something with Chroma's Vex but to gut him so badly is a big shame when they have just got more players use Chroma again .. silly move.. thou not surprising 

it seems that refreshing his vex sometimes keeps the buff %'s visually, but clears the actual buff, which then has to be charged again. i noticed it fighting eidolon.

[Tendou_Souji]

24 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Atlas Change:

• Reduced the decay rate of Atlas’ Rubble by half.

Thank you SO much for this change; there are however, some things I'd like to address.  

 

[Sumarbrandr]

No changes for Volt? Not on intended role. 

[KDlux]

all this led to was the infamous black screen/mission progress screen frozen after a mission was done. It is happening repeatedly. fix ASAP please. its not fun closing the whole game mission after mission. thank you

[Maka.Bones]

Ty for the changes/update! 

Btw, the gantulist oneshots me while I'm on my archwing

[Alkavike]

28 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

 

Atlas Change:

• Reduced the decay rate of Atlas’ Rubble by half.

 

....That's it?

[brewedjuice]

4 minutes ago, Vladinald_Trutin said:

  Hide contents

Is it possible to tone this down a little bit? 13 Dargyns while being undetected is a little bit much...

100000000000000000% agree with this. i had 15 and it was the worst thing ive ever had to do in this game in all 25 of my mastery ranks. this is so insanely toxic to put that many and require undetected.  (btw mine gave me a flippin furax riven...  /wrists)

[shootaman777]

3 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Thank you for doing some math and crunching numbers. I havent had a chance to check it (there's a lot there), but i hope people bring attention to this post. Much appreciated!

:)