Sanctuary Onslaught: Difficulty Changes!

[Wyrgula]

Why this? there is so much other things that NEED to get fixes, portals creshing games, portals never showing up, really bad spwans, Ia that spawns and stay on the spawns, host migrations bugs, losing all the rewards bc crashes/hostmigrations or something else(bug).
it's been a long time since o enjoyed myself playing with frinds and this mode had me enjoying again, even with all those problems, losing rare drops over and over again, it was still FUN.
And now lets make harder to get anythig(i can understand but i will get anythign better with this?) enemy scalling still a problem in the whole game, they enemies drop nothing  ok the droptables are really big and ok let's make this just another survival with all the problems that this game mode DIDN'T have before.
We are enjoying this u guys don't need to "fix" this in this way i think, please fix other things first and after that we can see if its better doing thi or other option.

[NoLife]

"Go faster, test how far you can go!"
*Restricts how far you can go, outside of enemy scaling. Nerfs ability to gain efficiency at any reasonable rate.*

[Laiyenu_Rae]

Great patch, now I can ignore this mode 100% after I farm the weapons out of it.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

4 hours ago, TheLeonBM said:

Please remove endo from Elite Onslaught tables, or at the very least increase the amount. It is a very subpar reward. We could easily get the same amount from doing things like Hieracon in a lot less time and with minimal effort.

Absolutely this, what the hell am i gonna do with 400 endo? Fuse an ammo drum?

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Efficiency drain gets ridiculous but the real issue is the lack of spawns in what is supposed to be an ONSLAUGHT DE... I was in a group the other day and we were keeping efficiency at 100% easily while chatting and then the very next round there simply weren't enough enemies to kill and we failed with 20 seconds remaining, regardless of the fact all enemies were being instantly killed as they spawned.

As for increasing armour you can do that all you like but it won't fix any exploiting, every tenno with half a brain knows how to completely negate armour in this game when required.

[Al3xusLov3]

11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Sanctuary Onslaught is where we play by Simaris' rules. You already know by now the jist of our Khora plans, but we also have to do some tweaks to Onslaught.

Here's what we're doing with ELITE Sanctuary Onslaught!

Our plans with this are a bit tougher to map out succinctly because the mode still needs attention to fixes. However, some data has come back that we don't want to keep to ourselves.

Enemy scaling is broken. If things felt too easy compared to normal-gameplay, it's because they are. Take a look at the way an Infested Charger's health behaves - this discrepancy applies to all enemies, not just the Charger!:

This is semi-complicated to fix, because in a way this has led to hollow gains - enemies are providing significantly more Affinity (and thus, Focus) but in reality they are much weaker than they should be. To maintain the current difficulty of the mission type as best we can, we will have to lower enemy levels, which will impact Focus gains. We absolutely intend on this mode still being a Focus boon, and playtesting shows that gains are still enormous compared to normal play elsewhere (with Adaro strategies being the exception).

We understand the importance of reaching Zone 8, and will tweak numbers carefully to ensure that mark is still reachable before enemy difficulty is too high. But as a mode intended to offer bite-sized “arcade style” type gameplay, we are adjusting the later stages to further limit run duration: Efficiency Stimuli will no longer appear past Zone 15, and Efficiency drain reaches 10x normal rate by Zone 20, instead of capping at 6x.

Leaderboards will also be completely reset soon as we continue to fix up the issues and they won't see a real role until we're ready.

The Hotfix notes (either today or tomorrow) will have full details this is just a TLDR!
TL;DR That enemy scaling is broken and difficulty changes will follow!

P.S I thought I was actually really good at making builds, but sometimes, the scaling is just simply not working.

When you get to fixing the real issues like the parts drops then post, enemy color is insignificant and unimportant! How you cheat people so they can't get the Khora parts then wanna try to make like you changed it to somewhere else? We not that stupid but some might look it. Make the frame parts drop and stop the dumb relics nobody wants!

[-CdG-Zilchy]

I don't mind the radiant relic rewards tbh because I came back from a long hiatus and need them, but I do wish the parts had more chance of dropping instead. The pictures and endo rewards however...

[-Kritias-]

Finally it could be something like a challenge

The first few times I thought I´m crazy wether the enemies are weaker or not

[AnonumusSoldier]

15 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Absolutely this, what the hell am i gonna do with 400 endo? Fuse an ammo drum?

ive been getting batches of 700, is that a bug? 

either way, i really dont get the community hate for endo in elite mission rewards like kuva survival and sorties. At MR25 with all of the r10 mods at max, i still run out of endo. Rivens cost 7k each to rank up. Thats 3 hours on kuva fortress/hiercon/onslught. Should it be upped, most certainly. removed? hell nah.

 

 

As far as the mission changes, i had a feeling this was coming, and disagree with them. This mission is hard enough alone mechanic wise to go the distance (which is what it was intended to be, advertised as such and begged for the community as) and your wanting to make it harder??? once again, new content is regulated to the well organized meta groups and the common warframer that can only play public is left in the cold.

 

ANd 

Quote

 We absolutely intend on this mode still being a Focus boon, and playtesting shows that gains are still enormous compared to normal play elsewhere (with Adaro strategies being the exception).

really? Onslaught was better and waaay more fun then adaro, this code word for nerf is horrible.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 minutes ago, AnonumusSoldier said:

ive been getting batches of 700, is that a bug? 

either way, i really dont get the community hate for endo in elite mission rewards like kuva survival and sorties. At MR25 with all of the r10 mods at max, i still run out of endo. Rivens cost 7k each to rank up. Thats 3 hours on kuva fortress/hiercon/onslught. Should it be upped, most certainly. removed? hell nah.

 

 

As far as the mission changes, i had a feeling this was coming, and disagree with them. This mission is hard enough alone mechanic wise to go the distance (which is what it was intended to be, advertised as such and begged for the community as) and your wanting to make it harder??? once again, new content is regulated to the well organized meta groups and the common warframer that can only play public is left in the cold.

 

ANd 

really? Onslaught was better and waaay more fun then adaro, this code word for nerf is horrible.

I just came back from 2 years away from the game. All my prime mods are maxed and I have 300k + endo in reserve. Imagine how much the players who didn't stop for 2 years have. That's why.

[BladeRambler]

Game mode is dead to me until host migration reward losses are finally fixed. I'm tired of playing it then losing everything at the end: find a better mechanic DE.

[Lakais]

The changes make sense when I look at them from what I can imagine to be the design goals and points for the mode. They intend that regardless of how cheeseball a group is, they WILL get kicked out and not too far in. 

I have deliberately stayed away from the game mode because it's a buggy mess and also because I knew there would be a lot of changes. Though I did wonder why DE chose to move away from what I originally understood would essentially be a gauntlet of missions with a capped 20 minute timer. Kill as many and go as far as you can in the 20 minutes you are given. The Stimulus also seemed to have a different function. But the answer to that is this exact thread, or the replies within. People would complain endlessly "Why you wanna stop fun!? I can go for longer then 20 minutes!" 

But when I look at that concept and what we got, in regard of high-end builds they would in general be the exact same: emphasis on high power AoE nuke frames and weapons. 

So I'm going to assume that DE set the "expected mission time" to 20 minutes after which they "strongly suggest" that you should wrap this up. As for the enemies, they HAD to lower the levels after fixing scaling. There is a curve of enemy power and survivability that has to be somewhat followed. I mean, the soft cap is probably more likable then a 20 minutes timer you can't alter in any way and the enemies suddenly becoming brick walls of deathsponge, further diminishing the efficiency gain through kills. 

[calliph0re]

I think these changes really need to come with an increase in the rate at which the Focus multiplier scales up. More specifically, the 16x cap needs to be reached at or before Zone 8, and scaling before that should be ramped up accordingly. It just seems like such an obvious change to make, given the reduction in Focus gains due to reduced enemy level, as well as the increased restrictions on long runs.

As an aside, I have to ask: what exactly do you mean by "normal play elsewhere"? Mid-level survivals, defences, or exterminates where you get like 500 Focus per orb? Even lower-tier missions where you'd be lucky to get over 300? Is this supposed to be the benchmark of what's acceptable, when everything costs hundreds of thousands of Focus points?

[failedtodiet]

I'm a solo player, i'm not happy with this patch. Would you please re-balance it for an average person to be able to get past zone 8 elite onslaught ?.

[Nobodys-Perfect]

@[DE]Rebecca

These changes are going almost in the exact opposite direction to what the players who enjoyed elite sanctuary onslaught as a gamemode want. Nobody complained about these 'problems' you're addressing. Are we playing the same game as you guys?

With the exception of messed up spawnrates on certain tiles, loot tables and the general instability, the gamemode was well liked for what it was presenting and it's accessability to varied styles of play (warframe and weapon loadouts) in terms of gameplay. Take what you had and soup it up along the same lines. Don't homogenize it into being the same thing as other styles of mission.

These outlined changes are going to push it into being like much of the rest of warframe's content (Read: Scaling enemy meta. Effective caps on viable time you can spend in one mission), instead of being different and therefore somewhat interesting in it's own right for standing apart.

Soloing the elite onslaught is now more or less killed, too. Or at least it seems a hell of a lot less viable with these efficiency changes and nothing pushing up the spawnrate in turn.

 

[Shadedraxe]

Oh, here I thought you planned on fixing the broken scaling of enemies in the base game starting with onslaught, but it turns out onslaught scaling is just a broken version of an already broken scaling system. And my god, the grineer armor scaling is absolutely the worst part. Why else do you think corrosive projection and corrosive procs are so meta? This kind of push will make onslaught be full of nothing but cheese.

[Atekron]

or, instead, why not to fix focus gain for entire game? the rest of missions and PoE, where it's not working at all, ppl, than, stop to bore yourself to death in bere and adaro

[MinkoElkra]

So I got home from work and thought 'I'll play some onslaught in warframe."

NOPE.

You ruined the difficulty curve for solo play in both modes, and I play solo because every time I play public I lose rewards. I used to be able to play for a half hour to an hour (zone 10 to zone 20) of this in one go; now what I was using (which was already a modified build to deal with lack of enemy spawns in a gamemode entirely reliant on them) has trouble getting to zone 6. Yes it's not maximized effectiveness, but that's beside the point. My sustain has been cut in half. (and that's based off my shorter runs)

Why is it that every time I find something entertaining or fun in this game it gets ruined a week later? DE, I suggest you reevaluate your definition of "fun," because it doesn't seem to match up with that of your players. Everyone I personally know that played this game left because of this kind of stuff. My entire friends list is offline for weeks at a time, and at least one has uninstalled warframe with no intention of ever installing it again because of the lack of focus on real, actual fun.

The core gameplay for this game is amazing, please stop nerfing it every time people start enjoying themselves.

 

TL;DR Onslaught change nerfed solo play ridiculously; DE doesn't seem to understand "fun"; I'm forever alone in this game because of that.

[Buff00n]

Before the latest hotfix I was making the Khora BP grind enjoyable by soloing regular onslaught with every single frame in alphabetical order.  Every one I tried was doable without resorting to spin2win.

However, after this latest change, I can't even make it through zone 8 with my bae Octavia, where before I could solo elite onslaught with her.  Efficiency hits a brick wall around zone 7, and zone 8 starts in a hole you can't get out of.  I'm restricted to meta murderframes if I want to go solo rotation C with *regular* onslaught.  

I'm fine if Elite mode requires either a group or a meta frame.  But I think regular mode should be solo-able through zone 8 with any frame, and that's just not the case anymore.

I can't think of another way to make this fun, now it's *work*.

[__Beowulf__]

I want to use my well modded frame, my well modded weapon, my custom made zaw. All the stuff that I put time, effort, forma, reactor, rivens and so on, but i can't. The efficiency drops to zero whatever i do. So you are forcing us to use "press-4-to-nuke-all-frames + whip", that's not fun, it's mediocre, that's not a game mode I like to play, and I refuse to play that way.
Please DE, take a look at the efficiency system, fix the enemies spawn rate, fix the enemies AI, they run to cover at the opposite side of the map, or hide in some room, 
we don't fail because we lack the ability or the dexterity, we fail because this game mode is broken and unbalanced.

[anyse]

14 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

playtesting shows that gains are still enormous compared to normal play elsewhere (with Adaro strategies being the exception).

Then what's the point to do this mode except for the frame and vandal part? and when it comes to focus farm why don't we go back to adaro?

this mode is gonna be just another "farm and forget" like defect and infested salvage if you don't make up your mind and make it the prime source of focus that accessible to both casual and hardcore like you want it to be

[MinkoElkra]

Tried some more, I'm now annoyed and have no desire to play warframe. Fancy that.

 

Congratulations DE, with one update you turned "I think I'll play warframe" into "I want to do anything other than play warframe." (stating the obvious but.....that's not a good thing...)

 

That fact that I shifted from the former to the latter in less than half the length of a normal play session shifts my attitude from annoyed into actually angry. I quit sessions for making me annoyed, I quit games for making me angry. I'm going to go cool off for now, but in the near furture I probably won't be playing much warframe until I see some sort of revert to this as I've already played more than enough of everything else.

[MinkoElkra]

6 hours ago, m0b1us1 said:

We want a CHALLENGE DE. We want to feel everything we have learned and skills gained to be tested, not how easily we can support the saryn, or use nuke trin, or spin-to-win. We have done that for years. End game needs to put us as players to the test.

I skimmed earlier, reading entire thread right now (though from most recent post to oldest, rather than front to back). Finding something like this makes me want to smash my head into my desk.

 

For anyone scrolling through that thinks like this, please stop. Warframe's mechanics make "challenging gameplay" effectively impossible. DE would have to rebuild from the ground up to achieve something like this. The best they can do with the game in it's current state is artificial challenge (i.e. increasing the lvls of enemies, nerfing players with special conditions, giving units invulnerability frames, etc. -though that last one is mostly bosses). If you want actual challenge, as much as everyone involved doesn't want to hear it, you need to play something else.

[trndr]

15 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is semi-complicated to fix, because in a way this has led to hollow gains - enemies are providing significantly more Affinity (and thus, Focus) but in reality they are much weaker than they should be. To maintain the current difficulty of the mission type as best we can, we will have to lower enemy levels, which will impact Focus gains. We absolutely intend on this mode still being a Focus boon, and playtesting shows that gains are still enormous compared to normal play elsewhere (with Adaro strategies being the exception).

Wasn't it pointed out in devstream 109 onslaught should change focus, from being a booring mess, to being fun?

Well it was fun, but I guess we can't have fun in warframe. Now we get the same affinity as in the rest of game, which means if/when you remove stealth an alternative will be found.

As you realized with coptering the only way to stop something is to give a viable alternative, Onslaught was that alternative, but you opted to dissapoint...

[Leorion]

These changes seem absolutely against the general consensus of anyone that has played this game mode. The game mode has provided hope to players, and it's true it needs fixes but this is the exact opposite of what people have been asking for... Please reconsider. 

The enemy level changes make sense if it should have always been that way and I understand it's complicated fix so please take as much time as you want buffing their HP but reducing the focus gain and increasing the drain will be the most punishing thing that will happen to this game mode. The game mode already restricts the majority of Warframes out of the mode. If you want to go solo, you have to pick a select few warframes with a select few weapons and the efficiency counter is still ludicrously fast and insane. The biggest problem with it remains the enemy spawn. The challenge is supposed to be how fast we can kill, but instead it's another RNG challenge about how much enemies can spawn. Unless the enemy spawn can be consistent in a way that there is always enough enemies around to increase efficiency to a stable level, please do not nerf the efficiency counter. 

Furthermore, when it comes to the Focus nerf, I am honestly gutted. I was told through the Prime Time that you can solo max your focus limit daily and I was so excited to finally be able to do it because the Adaro method is extremely boring and tedious. Solo-ing the normal mode already rewards low focus in comparison, and the Elite mode is far too hard to be able to get past Zone 4 casually. I was honestly asking for more focus to be rewarded but then reading the workshop here has left me feeling like I will never be able to truly get into the Focus system. 

The fact that it rewards more Focus than normal gameplay is not something to be happy about... Normal gameplay rewards 1,000 - 5,000 Focus per mission, depending on how you play and we have a 250,000 Focus limit per day! At that rate we need to play 50 or more mission just to get to that level. Is that intentional?