Kubrows useless ?.

[OvisCaedo]

Useless, no. Clunky, very. And... well, a lot of the kubrow breeds do have sort of questionable skills for most contexts.

I think part of the issue is that their only survivability mods are directly tied in effectiveness to your own frame choice. They'll be plenty survivable if you're playing a health/armor tank yourself. Nearly unkillable, even! If you aren't... Then even with maxed mods they really aren't going to have the durability to survive how bad their own facetanking AI is. Many frames can survive having low health stats because they actually evade damage or have personal DR of some kind, dogs don't.

They could really use an alternate exclusive set of "flat" mods for survival as opposed to only the link ones. Let people link to their tanks for the fun synergy, but give pets another option to bring them up more for pairing with "glass" frames.

Edited October 11, 2018 by OvisCaedo

[SpicyDinosaur]

Sentinels don't have any real survivability. I've watched my sentinels die repeatedly while I was downed, waiting for them to rez me with the appropriate mods. The only good sentinels are wyrm, carrier, and helios. They have specific mods that make them valuable tbh.

 

If Kubrow were given specific mods or had time spent on them, they'd probably have more value yes, but let's be honest, people only use sentinels for vacuum, otherwise everyone would be using whatever they felt was apropos for the mission.

[aswitz87]

Doggos and kitkats are tankier than most frame when modded right.  If the pet goes down, most assuredly the person who modded it did a craptastic job.

[Cloudyvisage]

A no Forma Kavat/Kubrow can still be incredibly tanky. A single Forma and a tanky frame with a suvivability focused build? They are comically more durable than sentinels, the only reason sentinels can even survive at all is because they draw basically zero aggro, everything else has to be dead before enemies even look at them, dogs and cats don't have this, they soak up attention and damage for you so your enemies aren't trying to pump you full of lead/lasers.

The awkward point about that though is that the frames that need that distraction are also the frames that don't allow you cats/dogs to be tanky, I'd advise another mod that takes the same slot that the current survivability mods do, basically, a traditional vitality/redirection, you can only have one or the other, either you get infinite tanks cat/dog via the scaling to you mod or you get a tanky cat/dog irregardless of your stats with the base percentage increase.

[Makunogo]

so how do we mod it for a frame that's using no survivability mods w/o it getting wrecked? 

[Marvelous_A]

Survivability is not the main problem here, but even if you solve it most pets are worthless anyway compared to Sentinels in terms of utility. The only exception is Smeeta.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Marvelous_A

[Erytroxylin]

To get survivability out of them you are forced into certain builds on certain frames. They are much more limiting to use than a Sentinel is, and Kubrows don't really have the utility to be worth that. Kavats can be, but I still prefer to take a sentinel 9 times out of 10.

[Lost_Cartographer]

1 hour ago, Makunogo said:

so how do we mod it for a frame that's using no survivability mods w/o it getting wrecked? 

In short, you don't.  You bring them along if you're a stat heavy frame meant to bulldoze through targets with raw firepower and durability.  Squishies that rely on CC will probably only get real mileage out of kavats simply because kavats can rapidly strip armor and provide consistent crit buffs (adarza, +60% crit chance every 10 seconds out of 20.) or a chance at a myriad of whatever buffs that people like to pretend are constantly and reliably up (smeeta, which has a 28% chance every 27 seconds to give you a random buff.)

Otherwise, if you plan on performing little in the way of moving around, grab a sentinel so you can just suck stuff up without exposing yourself too much.

I much prefer pets as I do like moving around, and walking over and picking crap up isn't the insufferable chore a lot of people make it out to be, but I doubt most of these people would make it through the first episode of old school DooM on the difficulty "hurt me plenty."

I think the only Kubrows ever really worth using are the sahasa and raksa, but even then, I'd prefer kavats.  Kubrows definitely need a rework from a utility stand point.

 

[Hawk1911]

I've been saying this from the very beginning after I hatched the Quest Kubro, they simply do not attack quick enough in this game.  Warframe, a game about basically hits per minute" has an animal companion that takes about 10 seconds or more to "line up its shot" then charges in a straight line and misses 50-70% of the time, that percentage goes up to 100% if you already killed the target.  They need a near instant wind up and their AI needs to be significantly improved to deal with the clear bugs that cause them to just stand there taking hits after the target that they were going after dies, most of the time because they were too slow.  That single straight line attack also misses because the Kubro does not deviate from the path so once the target moves half foot to the left or right the attack will miss.  What needs to happen is a guided attack of some kind so that there is only a 10-20% chance of a miss rather then the 50-70% chance that they currently have.  My current Kubro is the cloak dog (the breed escapes me) and I saw someone here mention those abilities in my experience the dog abilities simply do not proc often enough to help during a stealth mission.  Either because the companions are too slow or they are glitched out and yes that ability mod is in the 1st slot so that is not the problem.  The mod reads when maxed out "cloakes its owner when there is an enemy within.. 20-30 meters" that is a lie because I've been looking at enemies within 2 feet of me and the Kubro failed to proc her ability more then 50% of the time, or more in fact.  As far as their abilities are concerned they are just as unreliable as their attacks.

I've used the same not-dog and not-cat since I made them and I am determined to use them to their fullest but when I see them confused by an enemy who is directly in front of them and NOT attacking it makes me shake my head and at times wish I had my Helios prime with an potato'd body and weapon along with a forma or two.  I potato'd and Forma'd both my cat and dog twice now evenly, while not maxed on all mods I'm slowing building them up and again they are very dependent on what frame you use, for the most part.  Having to max out every single mod is costly in every sense of the word when you could be using that endo and credits and what not to upgrade your frame, weapons, archwing etc.  If you want players to sink tons of endo just to fix your poor attempt at making a living companion then make it worth our time, money and effort.

The kavats have a whole different problem but only because they have WAY more universal attacks then the Kubros which I felt was odd considering the Kavats came long after Kubros, to me it seems like along with the Kubro's designs and horrible fur "textures" Kavats took priority and they just dumped all their resources into the Kavats rather then trying to make them balanced.  I mean really look at this texture for the Kubro fur and tell me that it's "current gen" and this is after DE's effects and lighting "fixes" with the last patch, my Stella looks even worse because of their "fixes" (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=153736948).  The Kavats' AI has issues when trying to figure out which attack pattern to use, even when you "prioritize" the mods or heck even if those attack pattern mods aren't even on the animal they still do the wall jump move or whatever move that you took out to make room for damage or whatever.  By the time the AI finally acquires its target and does the 20 second long attack animation the target is either gone from the area or more likely dead.  The grind for the Kavats alone was ridiculous enough especially since their location is limited entirely to the derelict and that you barely got 1 or 2 DNA strands per run even IF you scanned 10 or more cats, that's another thing that needs to be changed (those DNA alerts do not show up nearly as often as they should).

Mean while the Grineer crazy cat lady's Kavats deal way more damage to you the player and attack much more frequently by at least 5-10 times more frequently, and I mean just a single cat.  Why were OUR pure breed cats, made from DNA scans from original Kavats, less useful then the grineer cats?  It makes very little sense when you think about it objectively.  One counter argument to this is "well ours have more complex attack patterns" my point still stands, why do our cats take so long to do even a basic scratch or bite attack?!  Same with the dogs though even the Grineer dogs attack kinda slow there's just more of them.

For as much work as you need to put into both the Kubro's and the Kavats I expected far better results then what we're currently limited to, plus the fact that both require DNA stabilizers which again pointless just another unexplained money sink that, by now should not cost money.  The companions are far from useless, however they are also far from being what they should have been to begin with let's be honest.  They are also too heavily dependent on the frame that you are currently using while the sentinel is not yet you can make them more durable, something is wrong with the current system.

The other possible reason why players prefer Sentinels for one is that they are always on top of you, unlike your companions who have to catch up and sometimes they get caught on anything or get downed.  Sentinels also have their weapons separate from their host so that it gives you more options when setting up the sentinel itself and it's weapon so you actually have far more space and mod capacity then you do with the companions.  The companions on the other hand need everything possible to be crammed into one animal, attacks, health, armor, health regen and maybe an owner assist mod if you're lucky enough to have enough space.  Too many mods with not enough space, if more companion only mods did multiple things per mod card rather then how they are now I'm sure that would help fix at least PART of the problem, with mod space at least.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Hawk1911

[Makunogo]

14 hours ago, Littleman88 said:

In short, you don't.  You bring them along if you're a stat heavy frame meant to bulldoze through targets with raw firepower and durability.  Squishies that rely on CC will probably only get real mileage out of kavats simply because kavats can rapidly strip armor and provide consistent crit buffs (adarza, +60% crit chance every 10 seconds out of 20.) or a chance at a myriad of whatever buffs that people like to pretend are constantly and reliably up (smeeta, which has a 28% chance every 27 seconds to give you a random buff.)

Otherwise, if you plan on performing little in the way of moving around, grab a sentinel so you can just suck stuff up without exposing yourself too much.

I much prefer pets as I do like moving around, and walking over and picking crap up isn't the insufferable chore a lot of people make it out to be, but I doubt most of these people would make it through the first episode of old school DooM on the difficulty "hurt me plenty."

I think the only Kubrows ever really worth using are the sahasa and raksa, but even then, I'd prefer kavats.  Kubrows definitely need a rework from a utility stand point.

 

yea but if im still using them should i just omit the survivability mods on the kubrow as well is what i was getting at 

[cheliel]

On 2018-10-11 at 4:02 PM, HEA-Devazone said:

sahasa kubrows with [Dig] mods can spawn energy orbs
usually around 3 x energy orbs or 75 energy.
if you have maxed arcane energize you will get extra energy boost from the arcane.
if you use banshee with primed flow and efficiency + max range sound quake
you will pretty much have an infinite energy regen ( you still need to move around a little )

 

Dig have cooldown of 15 second and Cast time of 5 second.

Thanks for the details

I use Sahasa dig with Mag greedy pull 

That way even if the dog digs from afar, once I hear it bark I just turn and grab the orbs/ammo

That’s 75 energy or whatever is running low (red orbs too) 

I also use it with WOF Ember which I keep mobile, so I don’t mind getting the orbs 

Huras is fine with Ember if I recall right 

Chesa is too slow to keep up with looting unlike Carrier’s looter mod 

They need to update the kubrows’ sprint and abilities somehow, so the dogs can keep up with the pace/rhythm of the game

[SpicyDinosaur]

All I hear when people say that sentinels are better than pets is "I can't live without vacuum." Seriously, it is literally the only reason the diverse array of beasts you can pull from would be "useless."

 

You get over that faster than you'd think if you are using a pet. 

[KrazyKavatLady]

On 2018-10-11 at 2:18 PM, HerpDerpy said:

Pretty much all pets are useless compared to sentinels. Only time they don't die straight off the bat is if you have them fully modded(6+ forma) and use them with an already tanky frame. Personally I only ever use smeeta, but that's because I find sentinels INCREDIBLY boring, and cats are cute, and the buffs are nice too i guess.

... What? I use my Adarza Kavat the most, then the Smeeta, and then my sentinals.

They're only useless if you mod them to be useless.

[Hypernaut1]

7 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

All I hear when people say that sentinels are better than pets is "I can't live without vacuum." Seriously, it is literally the only reason the diverse array of beasts you can pull from would be "useless."

 

You get over that faster than you'd think if you are using a pet. 

I truly don't understand why people act like vacuum is is essential. Even before the mod change, I preferred other sentinels to carrier. 

Vacuum is ONLY useful to me if im farming a specific rare resource or happen to be using a weapon that Burns through ammo, which is not often. Other than that, it's practically pointless I truly don't understand it. Yes, you get more resources... But I already have more than enough. I rarely run out of ammo during a typical mission. My play style doesn't rely on orbs at all either.... So why do I NEED vacuum again?

[Toppien]

En 11/10/2018 a las 15:22, Divinehero dijo:

yea.. when i'm on my inaros my kavat NEVER dies w/ it's whopping 7500 HP on top of my modding to be healed by my melee atks and vice versa

he said kubrows, not kavats, even kavats are more usefull than the poor furballs

also, kubrows are pretty much being forgoten, they are full of bugs, visual bugs, animation bugs, and AI bugs, theres no way of making them decent in comparison against sentinels

and they mosly encourage going melee only cuz you need to put the hunter mods on so the player can get any sense of control over the incompetent behavior of the doggo

i love kubrows, hell i breed a lof of them cuz they look cute (not with the recent update that made their fur ugly as hell) but they are broken and forgoten in comparison to other companions

and now we are going to get moas, like we need another companion that can wander around being useless, pretty much a customized moa specter

 

plz fix the doggies already ;A;

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by Toppien

[SpicyDinosaur]

5 hours ago, Toppien said:

he said kubrows, not kavats, even kavats are more usefull than the poor furballs

also, kubrows are pretty much being forgoten, they are full of bugs, visual bugs, animation bugs, and AI bugs, theres no way of making them decent in comparison against sentinels

and they mosly encourage going melee only cuz you need to put the hunter mods on so the player can get any sense of control over the incompetent behavior of the doggo

i love kubrows, hell i breed a lof of them cuz they look cute (not with the recent update that made their fur ugly as hell) but they are broken and forgoten in comparison to other companions

and now we are going to get moas, like we need another companion that can wander around being useless, pretty much a customized moa specter

 

plz fix the doggies already ;A;

 

This comment is more than a little bit laughable. SInce, between kavats and kubrow, my best selling pets are Kubrow. 

[Hypernaut1]

Some people are too stuck in their own opinion to realise that not everyone feels the same way. 

Many of us use pets without issue. You may not because of your own gameplay style. Don't speak for everyone and make blanket statements... Because you're wrong.... And casual...

[ReshyShira]

One of the issues with the pets (other than them being slow to react to enemies/move around) is that you're more or less forced to use a frame with high base armor and health stats, due to the Kubrow/Kavat having piss poor stats of their own.

[BDMblue]

When you build the mods and partner them with a tanky frame they do well. My Inaros dog has 9500 hp 150 shields 1100ish armor. My Inaros is also my melee frame and uses life steal on his melee. The dog has never died. Mot 2 hours.

[(XBOX)Elofy Wolf]

No, Kubrows are far from being useless. The Kubrows I own and modded rarely dies only while leveling and I have about six Kubrows and one Kavat. So I know my Kubrows and about the mods, if the player doesn't know how to keep their Kubrow alive unless while leveling then they're doing something wrong or they don't have the greatest mods for their doggy.

[-NightmareMoon-]

The real problem is not they are useless but people rather have vacuum that dealing with the shore that is picking up every single thing that drop, is way more efficient to just use a sentinel, sadly DE after all this years dont understand that people HATE to pick up stuff manually, you will find some players defending the organic pets but lets be real, they are the minority, and for a good reason.

until DE realise that people like to use organic companions and implement vacuum as a default warframe pasive ability, people will always prefer sentinels, that's a fact.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, -NightmareMoon- said:

The real problem is not they are useless but people rather have vacuum that dealing with the shore that is picking up every single thing that drop, is way more efficient to just use a sentinel, sadly DE after all this years dont understand that people HATE to pick up stuff manually, you will find some players defending the organic pets but lets be real, they are the minority, and for a good reason.

until DE realise that people like to use organic companions and implement vacuum as a default warframe pasive ability, people will always prefer sentinels, that's a fact.

It's still a choice. Maybe DE likes the fact that some players discover on their own that vacuum isn't necessary. Maybe they feel it makes the choice feel engaging. Why remove and simplify that? 

Truth is vacuum isn't necessary in any way. It's one of the most luxury utilities in a game about mobile ninjas. 

And again..... It doesn't take long to get to a point where drops DON'T matter in this game. I literally ignore floor drops and still collect a majority of it. Why do vacuum users insist on assuming that without vacuum you will be regulated to combing the floor? No. You just keep playing like always... And still end up with enough resources at the end of the week. THAT'S why some people, like me, think vacuum isnt all that important. To reiterate.... We play practically the exact same way with or without vacuum, and still don't experience any setback. Pet users aren't scrambling around rooms trying to get everything. If you have OCD and need to stock pile unnecessary resources, then yes, you may need vacuum. 

Edited October 19, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[Zi-Sui]

My pets have 13k health and 1k armor when I play them with Inaros, and pretty high stats with Valkyr too. Even my Nekros pet only dies once or twice tops in a 40min kuva survival, and I think I'm using just Vitality and Gladiator Resolve on him.

You gotta get those pet mods and use them, and the higher your stats the higher your pets stats then.

[Hawk1911]

7 hours ago, BoarWarrior said:

My pets have 13k health and 1k armor when I play them with Inaros, and pretty high stats with Valkyr too. Even my Nekros pet only dies once or twice tops in a 40min kuva survival, and I think I'm using just Vitality and Gladiator Resolve on him.

You gotta get those pet mods and use them, and the higher your stats the higher your pets stats then.

Mods can't fix broken AI parameters that's one of the major problems or any of the myriad of other problems that they both share, I guess people don't like to read.  Yes you can make them near indestructible but have fun getting them to be anything else but a drawing agro away from the player.  That's the point everyone here is trying to make, they need a total rework, both cats and dogs.

There's not much point in bringing your living companion if all it does is trail behind by about 100 yards at all times while you're running through the map or gets stuck fighting one enemy and then dies or while you're in combat manages to finally kill 1 single enemy while half of the other sentinels even with just 1 Orokin cell would have killed multiple or at least been able to soften up far more then the kubro or the kavat. 

This is simple math, you want to bring nothing but a walking agro tank that rarely kills anything because the AI wasn't properly built?  Or do you bring the non-organic that hovers over you at all times never gets left behind, can kill regularly and is utility in nature?  I like bringing out both my cat and my dog but to simply say "oh you're not using it right" is simply the wrong "counter argument" to make.  Again having nothing but an HP pool animal is not comparatively better then a sentinel who may be slightly less tanky but can do more.  The animals NEED something more then just being "tough".  You'd know that if you were honest with yourselves.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Hawk1911

[ranks21]

they bleedout plain and simple, no matter how much armor.shields/health they have they'll die/get downed quicker than a sentinel. I don't use these pets because they have no survivability and get themselves killed since you have no control over them= useless.

fact# 3 they always get stuck even in an open field. fact #4 they will get a whole team downed trying to revive them. fact #5 only useful at low levels.

some of the mods they have that link them to the frames for surviving should also be for sentinels or give sentinels better self healing.

inaros cant keep them alive that long either, if they were better than sentinels you would see them in ESO and other mid- low high level missions.

no matter how hard you try with these doggies/kats they are ultimately not worth the hassle.

ps: saying pets are better than sentinels is simply being naïve and dishonest with one's self. sentinels are far more superior in almost every way.. they can attack an enemy 30m away, cc a crowd, and my favorite spread and proc status all of which pets cant do. even auras and mods like stand united, condition overload hunter munitions, weeping wounds just to name a few benefits more than what a pet can do for a loadout.