Why are people so against riven disposition changes?

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

2 hours ago, ranks21 said:

when you see these "nerf this" threads, you have to look past the complaints and the cries of the denizens and wonder about their ulterior motives which seems to be bringing down warframe on a whole. more and more of these till the devs actually starts to abandon this game because it's too much negativity from a very small group with big noise.

I  could care less about rivens and what they may do/don't, just remember warframe was built on power to combat hordes of enemies that have massive scaling. it's a rated M game and should stay that way, this aint Ratchet and Clank or those types of games that targets the adolescent audience.  all this talk of balance and nerfs for the past 3+ years has put the devs back against the wall with no letting up or ease for them to give us more and better content.

chill out, enjoy warframe as it is, let the devs get their groove back and give us great stuff like they used to do in the earlier days, this constant dumbing down of the game to make players like the OP contented needs to be shunned by the devs and go back to their roots and vision.

I really don't give a ….  and rarely side with or praise DE but  this is just wrong on so many levels and needs to stop.

This is how I feel too

[Cubewano]

I'd like to see rivens nerfed into non-existence if possible so yeah. They're a mess of an idea that adds to power creep while only being a bandaid solution to gear imbalance if even that. 

[(XBOX)FOCHOCLTstrfish]

They should change every week or two weeks in my opinion.

[(PSN)thowed]

Why are people so for it?  Why not just want other weapons disposition buffed without nerfing others?  No one really cares about any reason other than they can't afford one, can't get one to sell or genuinely want them gone all together.  I love how people worry about my Gram riven when Saryn destroys the map before I can even hit anything with it.  Stop worrying about what others have especially when it doesn't affect you.  Jealousy is not healthy.

[(PSN)thowed]

Funny no one tells all the for disposition nerfing topics anything about making they're own topic.  Simple answer TC, jealousy.  Spit out all the reasons you want, maybe a small percentage are genuine but mostly that's what it is.  Can't get the ones they want because of price or can't get one rng to make plat.  Sure glad I buy PA and always have plat.  I'd hate to let what someone else has bother me so much.  Like I said in the other topic, you're worried about my gram riven when Saryn is clearing the map before I can even get in melee range.

[LupisV0lk]

OP you forgot D. Unable or unwilling to get into the riven market and want to force the market to crash/cause a panic to get rivens for cheap.

I do find it odd when people use the "muh balance" argument after they've used the market price excuse first and been called out on it.

[DrBorris]

Nothing about Rivens effectively be a slot machine with the currency being hours of your time? How standard of linear vertical progression that exists in the rest of Warframe is thrown out the window? How RIvens don't even do their job at making 'bad' weapons good half the time? How the only way to move from the "have not" category to the "have" category is to get lucky with no means of working directly for what you want (within a reasonable standard deviation)?

I think this makes me a toxic community member, but if you defend those things above that part of the reason I would love to see a Riven rebalance is to see your salty tears.

 

And this "Rivens make DE money" is both hilarious and depressing. The hilarious part is that DE made plenty of money long before Rivens. The depressing part is that you are saying that DE should engage in borderline predatory practices for the money. You are the consumer for Pete's sake, don't advocate for greedy business practices.

Spoiler

This is not to say that I think Rivens are cursed to always be bad, in theory they COULD be one of the best end-game progression systems. But it is that possibility that makes me hate their iteration even more.

 

[LazyBlissIV]

Wasn't the point of rivens always to make money?  

[dEjAvU5566]

Only people against disposition changes are vested interest holders

[LupisV0lk]

Honestly i see no point. No matter what DE is buggered. If they do it they've just gone and killed the market because no one will invest out of fear of nerf herders calling for more nerfs because "nerf what i don't have reeeee" and have predatory youtubers make hyperbolic clickbait video's denouncing DE.

And if DE doesn't do it we're stuck with more whine on the forums.

DE is dammed if they do and dammed if they don't here people!

[jfhsanseiIII]

Don’t care about the nerfs.  Anything that keeps acweapon from being THE BEST.  I understand the market argument and it hits me as well.  I just enjoy going to my arsenal, hitting random, and seeing what madness pops up.  I do feel there needs to be some weapons that are less powerful so players feel that they’re progressing to new and more powerful equipment, but it needs to level off at some point. There’s value in choice and DE would lose money if they didn’t constantly introduce new, varied, and balanced equipment for us to play with. From a business and variety perspective it makes sense. 

[CoolDudeMcCool]

Might as well make all Rivens max disposition, it'd be more fair than what we have now

[jfhsanseiIII]

The only concrete answer is it’s a sound business decision.  If a weapon is really popular then people will only use that weapon. That’s why people only use Saryn for some missions and Ember for others.  That’s why ignis wraith is probably the most used primary now.  DE makes its money off of new stuff and the Forma, reactors, etc that people use to maximize them.  If everyone runs around with ember and an Ignis Wraith they make no money.  Nerfing keeps their player base and avoids power creep.  In the case of Rivens as well.  

[Eisdschungel]

Imo they should just buff some of the gargabe dispo 1 weapons (Tonkor and friends), while giving us more ways to get rivens.  If your Casual Player has more rivens, they are more likely to give a non meta weapon a spin (coz People usually dont Build these weapons without having a God riven except for Mr, with more riven Ill more likely get "Trash" i might use)

Same goes for the Time needed to Farm the kuva needed to roll.  If i can only get a small numbers of Rolls, i am more likely to invest into rivens known to be very strong like a Pyrana or Rubico or Gram and not a Hind or Hirudo. 

This would be Bad for riven prices, but personally i would take the price loss of my gems if that would help achieveinh what the System was initialy made for: Making Low Tier weapons stronger

Edited October 23, 2018 by Eisdschungel

[iman00700]

As long as dissposition for,supra vandal,sigmia and octantis and strun wraith dont change im good with any dissposition rework/nerf

[Obviousclone]

Because everyone deep down hates the people in trade chat who scream GOD TIER RIVEN 3k plat

 

and if we nerf their rivens then they become poor and sad.

[Zi-Sui]

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

i find that ANYTHING is effective in PoE bounties. I wont even check the mods on my weapon sometimes going into one. The Meta is definitely not a problem there.

Have you modded MK1-Braton and potato-formaed it to max and gotten it a good riven and tried it there? Because let me tell you from experience of doing so expect for the riven, and aking it to Hydron Sedna, with everything except a primed bane mod maxed which should be there for added crutch. I can tell you that you start to have slower kills at level 40 grineer. What happens when you bring that to a bounty where enemies have noticeably tougher base stats and level 60? Shiit happens, that's what.

If the riven system worked like it was supposed to, with regular updates, you could do sorties and arbitrations with a larger scale of weapons. Now you have a more limited selection due to weaker rivens on weaker less-used weapons.

And for what? Because things are good as they are now? OP weapons being more OP and weaker weapons being weaker and even less popular? Why do you think DE gave that (bugged) weapon buff to arbitrations? Why do you think they created the riven system in the first place? Seems to me to be the same reason, so that less-used weapons would see more use. I've not seen you answer that point in any topic, just dodge it with your usual "things are fine" crap.

[Guest]

I wanna see it updated, the nerf is just a part of it. There are a bunch of underused weapons with low disposition, and overused weapons with high disposition right now.

[Zi-Sui]

3 hours ago, (PS4)thowed said:

Funny no one tells all the for disposition nerfing topics anything about making they're own topic.  Simple answer TC, jealousy.  Spit out all the reasons you want, maybe a small percentage are genuine but mostly that's what it is.  Can't get the ones they want because of price or can't get one rng to make plat.  Sure glad I buy PA and always have plat.  I'd hate to let what someone else has bother me so much.  Like I said in the other topic, you're worried about my gram riven when Saryn is clearing the map before I can even get in melee range.

That's bs. I've been vocal on these topics for updating dispositions and I always repeat the same point that gets ignored by your side: to make lesser-used weapons more used.

For the record, I have a god roll Opticor riven and a decent roll Paracesis one and I've sold and traded Rubico and Lanka riven. Got other rivens too for good weapons so I really don't have a reason to be jealous. I just want to use more weapons in harder content for fun instead of relying on meta like Ignis Wraith or Pyrana Prime all the time.

[DeMonkey]

13 minutes ago, BoarWarrior said:

Got other rivens too for good weapons so I really don't have a reason to be jealous.

It's just generic strawman nonsense.

Oh you're just jealous.

Oh you just want to influence trade chat.

Oh you're just a nerf crier trying to bring the whole game down.

Oh I don't actually have a logical argument as to why dispositions shouldn't be changed, so I'm going to deceitfully misrepresent other people's argument to make them look bad instead. It's nothing new, best not to respond to it as if it had any meaning.

[Alaeacus]

6 hours ago, Saturmorn_Carvilli said:

But I think this is a wrong mindset to say if the rest of the squad, or even one player, completely dominates every mission you take part in, it has no affect on your gaming experience.  It most certainly does, much in the same way bustin' noobs in PvP games does. 

This has nothing to do with Rivens.  I dominate missions with just my Exalted Blade.  Last night's Orokin Survival, I left with 1100 kills, and the next highest players was at 500.  All Exalted Blade.  Nothing you can do will prevent this from happening.  It's called "PUG".  

[Lost_Cartographer]

People want to see rivens nerfed because they think a game like warframe needs to be "balanced."  Like... no... strip some of those damage mods off your weapon and equip fast hands or something if you want enemies to take more than one shot to kill.

I used to be in the camp of "balance the game!" then I realized what BS that mind set is.  Warframe isn't about balance, it's about the power fantasy.  Modding let's me balance myself, even if it's a bit of a chore to properly balance my combat power against the enemy I'm facing (if I could make the star chart a flat level 30-50 range across the board, that'd be just peachy.)  

The only real reason DE should balance anything is under one of two scenarios:

The weapon/frame is playing the game for the whole squad, giving no one anything to do.  This can drive away players.

The weapon is used in every situation AND far outclasses anything else.  This can influence DE's bottom line.  The "and" is important here.  Technically, the MKI Braton is useful in every situation, but it's easily outclassed.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Littleman88

[LupisV0lk]

4 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

It's just generic strawman nonsense.

Oh you're just jealous.

Oh you just want to influence trade chat.

Oh you're just a nerf crier trying to bring the whole game down.

Oh I don't actually have a logical argument as to why dispositions shouldn't be changed, so I'm going to deceitfully misrepresent other people's argument to make them look bad instead. It's nothing new, best not to respond to it as if it had any meaning.

I mean your not wrong on all counts there Monkey.

People would be jealous and want to knock others down a peg or two.

People would LOVE to influence trade chat, just look at how that went with the maymay strike stampede.

Yes there are people out there who do indeed want to nerf everything into the ground.

These are logical, just they're the ugly truth.

Edited October 23, 2018 by LupisV0lk

[Zgwortz]

I kind of agree dispositions ought to be updated on a regular schedule - monthly or quarterly.   But perhaps to make it less of an impact, whenever a disposition change occurs for a weapon during those regular intervals, it probably should only shift by one from the current disposition.

For example, lets say you have a weapon X which has disposition N -- when the periodic change is run, it sees that weapon X is more or less popular than it's disposition supports, so it changes that disposition to either N-1 or N+1.

That way, a weapon with the best disposition which has suddenly gone from completely unpopular to most popular, would take 4 periodic changes to make it's disposition match it's popularity... but it might not go that far, as during that time other weapons might become more popular instead.

New weapons would start with a neutral disposition of 3 and shift automatically from there.
 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

16 hours ago, (PS4)SteveOMatic said:

If they did this regularly, then it would have been fine.  It would also probably stabilize the riven market instead of the insane prices we see today, but they waited too long and now the pain point is going to be too great.  They'll have to figure something else out or piss of a ton of folks which may cost them $$ and player faith.  They keep mentioning that they need to look at  them, but haven't done anything, and the longer they wait the worse it is.

I personally don't buy Rivens over 100p, so I welcome a change as well.

This is a fair point.