Riven Changes Part 2

[Xolgys]

this sounds promising. good to see the reference for disposition is a bit more now than just the popluarity statistics altough i dont feel like current dispositions need a lot of change.

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Futurehero:

Rivens should never be the thing that make or break a build. 

 

Please consider lowering the numbers in general, and reduce the number of dispo 5 weapons as much as you can.

 

this would ruin fairness and the purpose of rivens especially buffing lower "tier" weapons into competetive realms. the numbers are based off of the base mods, for example maxed hornet strike and thats absolutely fine same as disposition as long as its revisited more than just once every year, even if there wont be any bigger changes.

[Vinotte]

 

Like how the people above me suggested

I also think riven cap should be increased at some point now, double the current max cap/adding half the current max cap should be enough for now

It maybe unnecessary for some people, but it won't bring any dissatisfaction to the community (not that I can think of), unlike disposition change or people asking nerf/buff

If the server and funds are the problem, just open a donation program, I bet many people will participate including me

Warframe is evolving game anyway, stuffs keep getting added, changed or improved. Despite hoarder mentality or not, possibility of asking another increase or not. Stuffs like "cap" should be schedule (yearly probably if twice a year is too much) to increase, following the content affected by it

About disposition change every 3 months, it sounds fine to me, we'll see how it goes when it's live

[Madway7]

One problem I have with the ranking system (assuming this is the MR requirement changes) is that it seems very arbitrary, while for the most part I seem to agree with the changes it seems odd on some weapons.
 

For example the AkLex Prime, this weapon has been outclassed by so many better secondaries, the weapon itself seems good just looking at the stats, but that's just if you use Primed Quickdraw to patch up the reload, but after that you realize that the recoil is awful, then theres the low fire rate coupled with bad accuracy, which can't all be patched up without sacrificing many mod slots, and despite these negatives the disposition was preemptively nerfed for both the prime and non prime version just because the prime was released and again when the mentioned dispo changes happened.

This is an MR15 weapon and it seems like it's disposition is getting lowered purely on that merit alone.

 

Something I do wonder is how updated are the usage stats that are being looked at, are they current year? all time? past few months?

 

[Jarriaga]

Hey DE! I just want to thank you for keeping your promise with regards to balancing Rivens and even committing to a threshold so we can know when to expect a change. Yes, my current Rivens could be nerfed, but I understand the intended purpose and use is not for me to rely on them, so I'm OK with that. 

I'm just curious about how you'll go about Archgun Rivens. You have mentioned that you want for Archguns to "feel" like a short "Oh yeah!" power-up moment, hence the cooldown timer so they won't replace normal weapons. Based on that principle, you may want to program a custom "Disposition 10“ exclusively for them. You won't get that power-up feeling you mentioned unless Archweapons completely overshadow and outclass everything else by a wide margin during the short time you're able to use them. There should be no contest when measured against other weapons with their own Rivens if you want to nail that "sweet power-up" feeling. 

Beyond thay, once Companion Rivens are added once again, will they include Artax Rivens? Sure the Artax is not meant to damage enemies and no Riven will fix that, but Fire Rate, Status Chance and Zoom greatly benefit the weapon for utility. 

[Guest]

13 hours ago, AutoCept said:

It really annoys me that you can invest hours in kuva rerolls or spending plat on a riven and then have the stats adjusted. I realize that it might create an even more scammy riven trading scene, but it flies pretty in the face of the "don't devalue players time" mantra that every other decision in Warframe (Hi Hema) seems to operate on. I realize you've still got a really nice stat riven roll, it's just irritating that it becomes less nice than before.

Rivens were always supposed to be adjusted regularly.

[Genesix6]

stat lock on rivens. Come on, i wasted a lot of kuva and didn't get a decent stat, and when I do get it, I get garbage stat such -100% damage.

Just give us the option to keep one of the stat in rivens.

[Snakehound762]

The real question is, why are riven dispositions retroactive? People who spend premium currency and invest countless hours into a kuva gambling system shouldn't have their reward changed after the fact based on game meta. Make changes to new rivens, leave players inventory unchanged.  

[Reifnir]

TBH I think the entire Riven system is a mess with its overinflated prices and unnecessary hype. 

Disposition aside, I wouldn't object if Rivens became account bound/un-tradeable after unveiling. With stat locks, "reroll only one stat" and all. 

[RhythmScript]

Let's do some Riven slot math.

It's 27 million registered Warframe users, right? I know they're not all active, but it's a nice base for the math.

A unique riven contains a number of stats. I don't know exactly how the code is formatted on DE's end (I'll assume it's done to be easy to work with rather than with strict space minimization in mind) but let's just say a Riven must encode the following information:

-Weapon it applies to (FLOAT value, assuming all weapons have a numerical position in the database and we want to be able to scale on into basically forever)
-Polarity (INT? Rivens only appear for 3 polarities I think, but just in case)
-MR requirement (INT)
-4 stat assignments (4x INT, assuming these are ENUMs they won't exceed an INT's size on disk, there just aren't that many possible stats)
-4 stat values (4x FLOAT)
-Total rolls applied (INT)

That's 6 INTs at 16 bits a piece, and 5 floats at 32 bits a piece. That's 256 bits per Riven, if I did my math right, or 0.032kb. If a Riven is a unique Object in code, there's object overhead which Google reveals to me is typically 0.016kb (in C++), for a total Riven size of 0.048kb. That means it takes about 1.3GB to give every registered user one Riven slot (again, this is assuming that it's structured as above; that could be refactored to be smaller, and it may be smaller than that, but it gives room for Rivens to grow as the number of weapons they can be applied to is increasing pretty constantly). For the current 90 riven cap, the theoretical maximum size-on-disk of the Big Master Riven List is just shy of 117GB, assuming a data structure similar to above.

That means if one were to quadruple the size of the Riven database, meaning every player had access to 360 Rivens, it would mean allocating 468GB of HDD space. Let's just say 512GB for ease of the math, since HDDs come in sizes scaled in powers of 2.

Presume the Warframe Master Database Server is configured in RAID 6, which requires 4 redundant copies of a given HDD to operate, and that means 4 512GB HDDs would be required to quadruple the Riven capacity.

at about $70 USD per 512GB HDD, my back-of-napkin math puts the raw dollar cost of implementing such an upgrade at about $280 USD ($370 CAD or thereabouts), plus shipping and handling of course.

Shall we start a GoFundMe? 😜

[Prof_Blocks_007]

Scheduled disposition updates that now draw (at least partially) from weapon power rankings is brilliant news!

An increase to the Riven slot capacity would greatly appreciated (and is clearly a common request going by the rest of this thread), but I understand that server/bandwidth limitations are an issue, especially if the number of hitches I see when opening the Arsenal/Mods Station are anything to go by.

Regarding shotguns that require a riven to hit 100% and/or avoid needing 4 dual stats (forcing Corrosive/Blast, Radiation/Viral or Gas/Magnetic), would it be possible to increase the base status chance to compensate for disposition reductions?

For example, lowering Kohm's disposition from 1.4 to 1.2, but increasing Kohm's status chance from 25% to 27%. This would shift the riven status chance threshold (with Riven + 3 dual stats) from 120% to 90.4%. Meanwhile, a Kohm Riven with 120% status chance at 1.4 dispo, would become 102.86% at 1.2 dispo. This would enable the reduction of riven disposition (the overall power), without the loss of 100% status.

Another option is changing the pellet status calculation to follow the listed value per pellet, instead of the current probability-based calculation, but I don't even know if this would be possible to do, given just how much it could break mechanics-wise.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

12 hours ago, AgrotheStrider said:

Guess it dosen't help i hoard them 😅

I wish they would reduce rivens to 3 possible stats instead of 4. Could probably raise the cap.

[Ferbsol]

From 80s to smth like 60 s kills for orbs mothers and probably in the future if we get another orb with the archgun thing or some archwing boss will kinda be mandatory cause they will probably get 3 times more lets say for example multishot than the normal mod. Sounds horrible 

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

Archgun rivens sound like a horrible idea. I'd rather see the atmospheric damage increased across the board. My primary weapons shouldn't be doing more damage than guns that are used to shoot at spacecraft.

[Me.KayOh]

On 2019-02-22 at 5:48 PM, AhkNemet said:

I would like to see the riven cap increase by mastery rank as well.

At Mr 25 I have way more weapons that I USE on a regular basis (and have worked on with forma etc) than I would at MR 10. I'm now also over my limit, since I received a further 3 rivens from a login reward and I'm left with having to get rid of rivens I want to make room for rivens I've not yet completed the challenges of, or that I'm trying to sell.

With more specificity of rivens being added, 90 is no longer enough. There's absolutely no wiggle room at the moment, unless DE's plan is to force us to use only a couple of the weapons we spent the time on to make strong?

+1 This please. I understand the deal with database space being a limiting factor here, but there's been enough time since the introduction of rivens, to find a solution. Being in the place where I am in the game atm, I find it very intriguing to go back to weapons I never really used, and getting a riven for it to see how best I can get the weapon to perform. This is like a sort of end-game that I've given myself and this is actually fun for me but it's disappointing that there's a riven cap. I've had to compromise several lovely rivens that I owned simply because I had more than one riven for that particular weapon and I wanted a brand new riven for a different weapon (that I did not have a riven for as yet).

Also different ways to get more Kuva would be nice but that's a topic for another time.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

On 2019-02-22 at 5:38 PM, Descent-of-Damocles said:

40% bonus damage

Wow, game changing. How will you ever kill a Butcher?

[EquinoxPrime]

On 2019-02-22 at 4:13 PM, Knight_Prospekt said:

 Things just got spicy 😅

Things will balance out over time if they intend to have regularly scheduled disposition changes. Might be a little rocky at first until everyone adapts to it ^{_{(there will always be a little uproar here and there of course)}}, but this is a welcome change in my opinion. Even more so considering dispositions were never meant to fixed values to begin with. 🤔

Also yes, higher riven capacity please.

Thanks for the workshop! 👍

[SigmaBlack]

One thing everyone seems to be forgetting about when talking about Riven Dispos is to first streamline the posibilities that innately come with said Rivens. Weird, because it was a remarked comment a year ago when talking about this same topic.

Let me explain: for example purposes only, let's say we have 2 rivens (XXX Visicron and XXX Critatis) that both add +Crit Chance and +Crit Multi (regardless of the name actually having those mods attached to them or not). Now, we know that each part of the name of a Riven is linked to a certain stat, but because the order those stats appear in said riven, the name can vary even if the stats it has are the exact same.

So why not just streamline the possible names a Riven can come with, and with that, reduce the disk space associated with multiple copies of exactly equal rivens?

If a riven comes with +Crit Chance and +Crit Multi, just let it be named, for the sake of simplicity and space, Critatis, and adjust the order of stats it comes with so it always displays them in the same manner (first stat always +Crit Chance, second stat always +Crit Multi).

I think that process alone would make the servers save a lot of memory that could go into allocating more space for other rivens, even if the cap isn't risen.

PS: Pardon my possible misuse of words or lack of sense in the message, english is not my first language 😅

[ChiefTheHero]

f

[-Hammers]

Yeah okay thats great and all, but can we actually address the copious amounts of unhealthy RNG, and thus toxic trading community made by rivens RNG? It wouldnt be so bad if rivens were not just constantly shoved at us with sorties and gifts of the lotus, on top of adding the wholly uneeded arch gun rivens. As stated by so many before me, the way we roll rivens needs to be changed to allow locking of stats.

Example:

You still need to roll it for 900-3500 kuva per cycle.
The first stat to lock lets say is, 10k kuva, that's a hefty chunk but reasonable. second stat you lock is now 20k kuva, third stat lock 30k kuva, and finally the negative lock 40k.

Now you may be saying, "gee billy that's a a lot of kuva". And you are correct.....except for the fact people have spent literal millions of kuva on singular rivens to amount to literally nothing remotely close to desired stats, OR dissuades the ability to ACTUALLY MAKE A SPECIFIC RIVEN FOR A VERY SPECIFIC FUN AND NICHE USE.

It's not end game, it is literally a giant scratch off ticket system, in which the lucky get rich, or they get taken advantage of by the toxic community that is riven trading.

Why is it I need to spend 1-5k PLATINUM if i want best in slot riven for X relevant weapon, because the gods shined upon some random guy who rolled it twice? Rather, why is it, i know people who have used said 1 MILLION plus kuva on rolling, to amount to nothing but a dead, and hopeless grind, that just burns people out?

I won't accept the argument, "well if you dont like X dont do X", no, i think rivens for their original purpose are very interesting and cool, especially considering we are going to actually get relevant balance to them every 3 months. But if they (DE) are going to keep making more, and giving them away, and adding them to the loot pool, I will not just ignore it.

 

[Dishonored]

i'm not sure why we need riven for Archgun but
Yeehh min-maxing weapon to their maximun potential is pretty fun and painful at same time but rewarding in the end i guess.. ( *100k kuva reroll flashback)

im kinda liking the manual dispo change.
if something going from 5/5 to 1/5 it going to bring alot of ....yea
kinda risky..

[Shelusine]

I am honestly not hyped by this. Why this much time investment in changing riven disposition but this little spent to refresh old mods/old weapons ? Is it that hard to see that most Aura stats are pointless or that weapons like the tetra need changes ?

[Autongnosis]

In the same breath, why not also make min disposition rivens worth a slot? Many of those aren't useful at all even if you max roll because of how low the numbers get, to the point where you're better off using standard mods.

That, or make the disposition affect the damage increasing stats, but make stuff like mag size, ammo reserve, reload speed, flight speed and punchthrough uneffected by disposition? 

[Biosko]

On 2019-02-23 at 1:24 AM, Drawer-san said:

Like always people wanting more riven space just to hoard/sell and still use the same 6 weapons overall.

You guys dont have a max capacity proble, u have a hoard problem.

Actually I use nearly all of them. Dont assume something you cant know. And the ones I dont frequently use is for if the weapons get a slight change making them fun to play (more range or less recoil or better sound)

[Ferbsol]

En 23/2/2019 a las 11:16, Futurehero dijo:

Stop being entitled and learn to play 

Irony

[Drawer-san]

hace 10 horas, Biosko dijo:

Actually I use nearly all of them. Dont assume something you cant know. And the ones I dont frequently use is for if the weapons get a slight change making them fun to play (more range or less recoil or better sound)

So yeah u have hoard problem.

But what DE dont understand is that rising the cap to just 99 is equivalent million of platinum expend on just that.

They could give the "orokin cell BP" solution and sell 1 slot for 50pl. that will work 😁