Please revert melee changes, it's not fun anymore

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

Is there a way to keep codex scanner or mining tool equipped? Before if I was scanning I could quick melee then go right back to scanning, now if I “fire” after melee I don’t scan, I use my gun.

[Chewarette]

7 hours ago, (PS4)RedGhost135 said:

DE said this was to make combat more fluid, but it seems to just have gotten chunkier

They've also said this is Melee 3.0 Part 1. But it seems you only hear what better fits your agenda.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Chewarette

[DoomFruit]

9 hours ago, Annnoth said:

Instead of calling out the system as a whole we should start isolating what exactly is wrong. Sounds like the problem here is stance animations restricting movement too much and locking you in longer than normal animations. We should instead be bringing attention to how bad some of the stances are and why that made quick melee was favorable to begin with. It's not the new melee systems fault for showing us how painful some stances are, especially when it overall does so much to smooth things out as is.

It's not just stance animations being complete crap, there are other problems too. I can no longer alt-fire my gun directly after swinging my sword (a huge problem for the corinth, also for penta, talons, etc.). If my gun's empty, meleeing will completely halt all reload progress because the gun's no longer active. I can't zoom in while charging up a redeemer or glaive shot any more, again because the #*!%ing sword has decided that it wants to get in the way.

1 hour ago, Chewarette said:

They've also said this is Melee 3.0 Part 1. But it seems you only hear what better fits your agenda.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, something like this is NOT something you do half-arsedly in parts. You do the entire thing at once or you don't do it at all. Imagine that instead of giving someone a liver transplant, you just remove their liver, sew them back together and kick them out, saying that this is just Liver 2.0 Part 1 and they'll get a Really Nice Liver, Soon(tm).

 

[nlas-slayerkane]

yup the new system has it flaws but we cant fully blame the full system yet ( for as far is i know) since its not fully released yet.. but yeah have to agree the quick melee is a loss in my eyse to .. 

[Chewarette]

49 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

As mentioned earlier in the thread, something like this is NOT something you do half-arsedly in parts. You do the entire thing at once or you don't do it at all. Imagine that instead of giving someone a liver transplant, you just remove their liver, sew them back together and kick them out, saying that this is just Liver 2.0 Part 1 and they'll get a Really Nice Liver, Soon(tm).

No. First, we can live without a perfect Melee, it's not an instant death penalty. Second, what they've done is great, putting the entire Melee 3.0 at once would probably bring 10s of thousands of critical bugs and the game would be entirely unplayable for weeks.

Implementing changes one at a time is way better to identify the flaws and issues.

Plus, the current Melee 3.0 Part 1 is perfectly playable and actually really awesome. There are only minor inconveniences which are mainly "But I don't like when I have to change my habits".

Edited March 21, 2019 by Chewarette

[Ryusuta]

Honestly, I'm okay with these changees, but I agree that auto-block is AWFUL.

That being said, the changes I'm really REALLY not looking forward to are the dumbed-down combos and the removal of channeling. I can't imaging the combo changes NOT ruining Cleaving Whirlwind and Bullet Dance, and who even knows what this will do to Life Strike.

[(XBOX)FISTO ROBOT0]

Please don’t revert the changes, there is always growing pains. Not having to hold down a button and tap it again to constantly switch back and forth from melee to gun is fantastic. 

[(XBOX)FISTO ROBOT0]

I think a more constructive approach would be pointing out aspects we can improve. My friend who I game with all the time who HATES almost all and any changes and is a big grouch is even okay with this melee change. 

[(PSN)BJwobbleDix]

I love the new system.  Has made things feel soooo much smoother and sped the game up even more.  Like others have said, theres gonna be fixes in certain areas needed to help progress it.  I could definitely see some stances needing fine tuned in the beginning aspects of their combos to make things feel smooth. 

[MacKerris]

I will wait for them to complete the new console system before I give my final verdict. But at this point neither I nor my clan mates like the new system.

[Chappie]

Change is inevitable...growth is optional.   

Simply put..this game is ever evolving.  It does not revert.  It has not reverted in any significant way since day 1.    So why are you asking for something that isn't going to happen?   Melee 3.0 is coming and the first wave is here.

[SilentMobius]

12 hours ago, (PS4)RedGhost135 said:

I don't recall anyone asking for these changes (except for people that only use the zenistar)

I asked for keybinds to attack-and-switch to primary/secondary/melee, It's pretty close to what I wanted. And I barely use the Zenistar

[DogsConkers]

The only issue I've had with the new melee is when fighting the Exploiter. If I have a melee weapon equipped auto block will prevent me from throwing a canister.

[Serafinia]

I am also not a fan of the changes but this is the first phase yet and that's why have feedbacks to tell the devs what is wrong with the current one. They will certainly improve it and kick out the stances which slows your game. The quick melee was a simple but efficient way to kill high amount of mobs in a time so they just need to combine the speed and fluidity of quick melee with the dedicated melee attacks and combos which is not an easy task but they need remove basically all the stances which contains stops or force you to move slow. With the quick melee you can run with certain weapons or attack fast like whips, daggers, swords, staffs etc and move fast with polearms etc.

 

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

I just got the patch on PS4....

I'm trying to like it, because I like Warframe... but I don't like it at all.

I'll keep trying to "give it a chance" but it's killing my desire to play.

Spoiler

I was all set to buy the Tennocon digital pass for Baro... but if this kills my desire to play... why waste the money?

 

Melee is what drew me into this game. For years (up until last year when i started) I thought this game was only another shooter (from all the videos I saw) and I hate shooters. I played Destiny as my first shooter to take seriously, mainly because a friend played, and really disliked it, until they added melee weapons that were fun,... but they had ammo... ANYWAY... I probably wouldn't have picked up Warframe if not for Destiny2 suiciding itself and my friend quit playing it so I didn't have to anymore either... and once I saw Warframe with dual-bladed polearms and speed of movement, I was hooked. Dropped Destiny like a hot potato, and never looked back.

Quick-Melee
What I liked about Warframe was the quick-melee fluidity of using Melee as I dashed around without missing a step. That's now lost. Now, it's swing,swing,fancy halting swing... yeah, no. Uninterrupted swings is what felt all ninja-y and fit with the movement and speed of the game - especially in the context of wading through hordes of enemies. Combos might be OK for locking on to single strong targets that benefit from damage multipliers or status effects on certain steps of a combo, but feel entirely out of place when fighting hordes. That's the reason I never used combos.

I never used Guns unless it was a last resort or was strategically beneficial (ranged enemies way out of reach but a real problem, dargyns on plains, Ancient Healers making the front lines nigh-invincible.) For everything else, I was a melee player, and used "guns" only as "quick-guns" on backup (I wonder if shooter-centric people would be as up in arms if guns had "Gun combos" that you were locked into now that altered the rate of fire of your shots and had you stop shooting mid-attack to twirl them around all fancy-like for funsies, like Quick Melee is locked into Combo Melee now...)

Spoiler

I'm told Nunchucks still have a fluid basic combo... (Atlantean something, that I probably don't have) but they're Nunchucks... and that doesn't sound fun to me. Dual bladed polearms are cool (Orthos Prime's design is not cool, but I liked the combat style - will eventually buy the bladed skin rather than the white doorknobs - if its quick melee returns).

Auito-Blocking
Auto-blocking may be saving some of my health, I don't know, but I can understand people's frustration with it. It decides when to interrupt your input. It's like all enemies with ranged attacks suddenly got a "stun warframe" bonus status effect on their attacks, not just the enemies with ragdolls. Before, as Inaros, I could dance through the storm of bullets and then sand-to-face-finisher-restore-my-life without any problems... now, my warframe is suddenly concerned about blocking....

I recently got Primed Sure Footed at 400 days login reward, and even that short blocking animation whenever I would have been ragdolled is annoying for its purpose (but it's far better than the ragdoll effect, so I won't suggest any changes to it.)

Aimed slams... are a mixed bag for me.
I've played around with them... and sure, they're sorta fun. I got used to using ground slams to instantly cut short my jumps so I didn't overshoot ledges and platforms that I wanted to land on... especially in parkour challenge rooms. Now, aimed slams don't guarantee that immediate landing where I want to be. The removal of that tool will take getting used to, I guess. Not happy about it, but not "angry" about it, like the removal of quick melee.

 

 

For Melee 3.0 to be a "success":
(as I said as soon as I heard these changes announced and previewed, and hyped)

The first basic combo of every melee stance needs to reflect their old Quick-Melee behavior. (unless changes would make them MORE fluid -  I don't recall by heart from memory, the quick attack pattern of every weapon/stance.) Combos that halt movement should require an additional deliberate button press (a different button than quick melee or movement - both essential to quick melee staying quick melee - preferably block).

Removal of a stance to retain the old behavior is NOT an acceptable option, reducing Mod Capacity. Also, some weapons' default quick melee patterns were not as fluid as some stances' quick melee behavior.

I'd bring back the Block Button somehow. It was integral for more than just blocking, as some mods required use of blocking to trigger effects. There HAS to be a way. Even though I didn't use those, I empathize with those who are now unable to use those mechanics, and can see how vital it was to their success. Removal of Auto-Blocking would also benefit me and my play style, so win/win.

Directional Melee Aiming
One of the PRIMARY reasons I selected Polearms (aside from cool factor and quick-melee attack fluidity) was the quick melee attack pattern sliced a diagonal, striking both flying enemies and crawling enemies without needing to jump attack or slide attack to hit them.

This is the main reason I'm tempted to pull out my gun, to just take those types of enemies out when other melee weapons just won't hit enemies slightly off my very narrow plane of attack. It's not very fun or cool or ninja-y to whiff, slashing at the air, and hit nothing while the little osprey just dances around, a few inches out of reach - and when you try to jump attack, you miss by a mile because your timing was off by a split second, and can't keep slashing? what?

 

Those are my thoughts.

The goal of Melee 2.999997blahblah was to smooth out the transition from Guns to full combo melee... I never used full combo melee, for a REASON, and these changes force me into it, removing "quick melee" that was much more fluid in actual combat. It's a total fail for my play style.

 

Until Melee 2.999998, including the return of quick-melee behavior (even if it's just changes to combos), my enjoyment in the game is killed, and so is desire to play, and if not for Nightwave's forced timetable to get standing, I'd likely just stop playing until the update... good play, DE, good play, heavy handed force-to-play tactics win again?
 

(and since this is General discussion, I'll find a post in Feedback to add this to as well, so it gets read by devs too)

Edited March 21, 2019 by (PS4)AyinDygra
General Discussion/Feedback comment at end.

[DoomFruit]

4 hours ago, Chappie1975 said:

Change is inevitable...growth is optional.

Why is change inevitable? Changing something just for the sake of changing it is pointless and usually harmful. The saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is extremely old, you'd think that people would pay more attention to it.

[(XBOX)Dex Xean]

I like the melee changes all I use to do was slide whip or polearm quick melee with this new instant melee I use staves and machetes combos now with the new  directional ground slams as gap closers.

[Chappie]

3 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

Why is change inevitable? Changing something just for the sake of changing it is pointless and usually harmful. The saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is extremely old, you'd think that people would pay more attention to it.

People thought the horse and buggy wasn't "broken" either.    Would you like to go back to this "simpler times"?

Edited March 21, 2019 by Chappie1975

[DoomFruit]

Just now, Chappie1975 said:

People thought the horse and buggy wasn't "broken" either.    Would you like to go back to this "simpler times"?

The difference is that cars weren't worse than horses and buggies. The current melee system is worse than what it replaced.

[rapt0rman]

6 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

The difference is that cars weren't worse than horses and buggies. The current melee system is worse than what it replaced.

Er... Cars were pretty much entirely worse than horse and buggies when they were first introduced. The current melee system isn't completely implemented yet.

[Lakais]

20 hours ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

Was part of melee 3 going to include some stance reworks? I could’ve sworn I heard that on one of the dev streams but I can’t be sure 🤔

I suppose growing pains were inevitable, most of us only ever really used stance combos to be flashy, never out of practicality, maybe some of this awkwardness will pass as people get more proficient with their stances...

But I do think some stances need to be adjusted.

Right now we are in Melee 3.0 Phase 1. In this phase they implemented the instant switching and removal of blocking. Basically this phase was all about the core systems and controls. In phase 2 we should be seeing the stances getting their reworks and the combo controls being simplified and/or unified and the whole light attack, hard attack and combo counter rework thing to be added. At least that was the last I understood of their methodology. So to recap, what we have now is just the first part of the much larger rework.

They wanted the core mechanical parts in our hands to shake out the bigger kinks before reworking the other slightly less important parts. 

[(PSN)Sentynela707]

7 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

I'd bring back the Block Button somehow. It was integral for more than just blocking, as some mods required use of blocking to trigger effects. There HAS to be a way. Even though I didn't use those, I empathize with those who are now unable to use those mechanics, and can see how vital it was to their success. Removal of Auto-Blocking would also benefit me and my play style, so win/win."

This right here, would solve my growing disdain.  I too mainly melee over shooting.  Please bring it back.

[(XBOX)FOCHOCLTstrfish]

nah, it is better now.

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

personally, i think in its current state its annoying to the point that i dont even know why they bothered and certainly dont understand hyping it. for the most part, it feels the same, until you get into the details. at which point, most of the changes you really notice are negative, except for things like directional slams, and instant swaps, which could have been added without an entire overhaul. and even those additions created issues. i know that its a multi stage process, but at this point i wish they would've waited until it was finished. quick melee being gone is a detriment to many weapons. auto block is extremely annoying. directional slam needs tweaks as it often seems to want to go a certain distance and will often overshoot what youre aiming at. i wish you could hold the melee button while in air to still slam straight down. the inability to rebind the channeling has messed with many people's ability to get their controller setups to feel efficient again if they didnt stick with default. instant swap introduces small yet extremely annoying things like the fact that the mining tools get put away if you melee, requiring you to pull it back out everytime you need to melee the enemy interrupting you as you mine. i would assume this is true of any gear that replaces your gun in your hand, such as scanners. im just disappointed overall at this stage, and seeing as i play on console, its not getting fixed soon. being that i tend to melee alot (probably more than i should, as in long runs i tend to melee until its getting me killed) this feels like its going to ruin alot of my playtime for the next few months. guess ill be playing alot of sekiro, but i wish they wouldn't have done this with nightwave active, as it feels like you get punished for not devoting time to warframe right now.

Edited March 22, 2019 by (XB1)ashes of suvius

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

It’s only part one of the update. Stances might get a rework next. 

I’m cool with the changes, though, because I only played with weapons that had fast combos to begin with, specifically galatine. The two swipes of the stance combo are better than the quick melee and I like having spin2win at the ready whenever I want it. The melee rework is actually how I wanted the game to play to begin with. 

I understand that it sucks for players that found a quick melee they preferred. This melee rework was a big risk that I’m surprised They attempted.