"You only need to do 65 percent of the challenge to complete Nightwave" means 65 percent of returning players are effectively screwed.

[Cubewano]

14 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Your feelings =/= reality, that is true. 

I think that pretty much ends any further arguments you could raise. 

If you are going to base your statements on perception and not reality then you can stay in your bubble as long as you feel comfortable and throw your tantrums for as long as you want, just know that you will likely be ignored. 

You want change? Raise some valid arguments. 

You believe what you like, but the world isn't the fairy tale you want it to be, and just because you hope people will see things the way you want them to does not mean they will. Humans aren't objective entities, and our scope of understanding is limited by what we perceive, if being aware of that truth is living in a bubble to you then so be it, but it's still a farm roomier domain than whatever crevice you are deciding to live in. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by Cubewano

[0_The_F00l]

Just now, Cubewano said:

You believe what you like, but the world isn't the fairy tale you want it to be, and just because you hope people will see things the way you want them to does not mean they will. Humans aren't objective entities, and our scope of understanding is limited by what we perceive, if being aware of that truth is living in a bubble to you then so be it, but it still a farm roomier domain than whatever crevice you are deciding to live in. 

Right back at you mate, 

Everything you said applies to your own perception. Which for some reason you believe is the one true and correct view of the game and everyone else's is flawed or incorrect.

What puts your perception above anyone else's? 

[MagPrime]

37 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

What puts your perception above anyone else's? 

In my experience, Cube's perception of a situation is far less clouded than most.  So they're more likely to give unbiased, educated and fair assessments.

 

[0_The_F00l]

28 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

In my experience, Cube's perception of a situation is far less clouded than most.  So they're more likely to give unbiased, educated and fair assessments.

 

I have no personal enmity with him (or her, or... Them ), or his older views, only a disagreement with current one,

the entire argument put forward is that people 'perceive certain things to be unfair and react without having any real basis' 

my question is what about those that perceive it to be fair? is their view any less valid if it is based only on perception as well ? 

On One side mentioning "the world isn't a fairytale" implying there is an order, cause, effect and consequences of actions which I agree with (absolutely don't know why he said this, it does not help his argument) 

and in the same statement saying  "our scope of understanding is limited by what we perceive" which implies the presence of the structure is irrelevant and the scope of action performed does not impact the consequences. 

 

If he can raise a sufficiently valid argument maybe I would change my view, this is after all a discussion not a debate, but so far I have seen no reason to. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by 0_The_F00l
Typos and grammar

[jfhsanseiIII]

On 2019-04-22 at 2:21 PM, MagPrime said:

The story behind the current series doesn't support a permanent installment.  Nightwave's set up lends itself to short stories, pop up villains that we beat down and get rewarded for.

Plus, DE likes reoccuring rewards.  The Wolf armor and other Wolf specific items may get added to the reward pool of something else or even his own drops but pretty much everything else in the reward tiers will make a come back.  (and are already in the open game drop tables)

The only way this is bad for returning players is that they wont get the top tier rewards on this go round.  DE's history shows everything else is coming back. 

They were also quite clear on it all coming back again.  I’m also hoping that they just release loads of them so that they all overlap at some point two or three years down the road.  It’d be fun to see players min maxing their weekly reward potential and writing guides about it.

I’m kind of burnt out on them though.  If there’s one that overlaps my agenda or sounds fun I’ll do it.  Otherwise, I’m just going to do whatever I want now.  

[MagPrime]

Just now, jfhsanseiIII said:

They were also quite clear on it all coming back again.  I’m also hoping that they just release loads of them so that they all overlap at some point two or three years down the road.  It’d be fun to see players min maxing their weekly reward potential and writing guides about it.

I’m kind of burnt out on them though.  If there’s one that overlaps my agenda or sounds fun I’ll do it.  Otherwise, I’m just going to do whatever I want now.  

I'm burnt out on them as well.  Mostly I've told friends and clan mates to hit me up if they want a hand with any of it and just not stressing beyond that.  

And I would love to see what you're describing, sounds amazing.  

[MagPrime]

26 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I have no personal enmity with him (or her, or... Them ), or his older views, only a disagreement with current one,

the entire argument put forward is that people 'perceive certain things to be unfair and react without having any real basis' 

my question is what about those that perceive it to be fair? is their view any less valid if it is based only on perception as well ? 

On One side mentioning "the world isn't a fairytale" implying there is an order, cause, effect and consequences of actions which I agree with (absolutely don't know why he said this, it does not help his argument) 

and in the same statement saying  "our scope of understanding is limited by what we perceive" which implies the presence of the structure is irrelevant and the scope of action performed does not impact the consequences. 

 

If he can raise a sufficiently valid argument maybe I would change my view, this is after all a discussion not a debate, but so far I have seen no reason to. 

I'm not trying to tell you what Cube meant or expand on it.  You asked why their perception was above other peoples, I gave you the reason I have placed it higher than just about everyone elses here. 

[0_The_F00l]

33 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

I'm not trying to tell you what Cube meant or expand on it.  You asked why their perception was above other peoples, I gave you the reason I have placed it higher than just about everyone elses here. 

Please let the person who I asked the question explain himself. No need to answer for them. Or get into an argument for it either. 

What you have told me is "in the past he has been fair" that does not make his views any more (or less) valid than mine,

I do not know you or cube, I only know what is being said here,

this is not an attack on any individuals character or past actions. When I asked 'why his view was better than anyone else's' I was not doubting his integrity or capability (trust me my words would have been a lot different if I thought so) I was expecting a reasonable explanation of why they thought so. 

You have vouched that he has been fair and unbiased, which I appreciate so will look forward to his comments answering my question.

But as of now it is not enough to change my own views on the matter. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by 0_The_F00l

[beercritch]

I cant see why there is a lot of bad blood about nightwave.

 

Its a fantastic principle if you think about it for a second. DE have developed a way to make everyone play a little bit of everything and we get rewards for doing it. Now if you join some obscure map node there will be someone there doing something nightwave related. 

More people playing a more varied spread of missions in the game can only be a good thing

[Test-995]

1 minute ago, beercritch said:

I cant see why there is a lot of bad blood about nightwave.

 

Its a fantastic principle if you think about it for a second. DE have developed a way to make everyone play a little bit of everything and we get rewards for doing it. Now if you join some obscure map node there will be someone there doing something nightwave related. 

More people playing a more varied spread of missions in the game can only be a good thing

Reason is simple, not every people do enjoy every missions, and some acts are breaking PuG (at least ESO one will encourage people to NOT stay for rotation C).

[SastusBulbas]

Im struggling to do the missions, 12h a day working away from home, kids. 

 

Never hunted animals, no friends list, lucky if I can spend an hour. Time torn between WF and WoT.

 

I support the game, spend real money on it. But sick of the stupid no life grindwalls making so much content exclusive to the privileged in many of todays games

 

I dont get to play Warframe as I want, as I am doing missions I dont enjoy in the vain attempt to get to lvl 30 in Nightwave.

 

I am at Nightwave lvl 25. I see no way past it, I need to make friends in game to do two missions, spend an hour (or more if I fail) in Kuva Survival, and learn to hunt perfectly for some animal captures and a couple of other missions.

 

Its not fun anymore, its a chore and if I dont get Umbral Forma and the Armour, i have wasted all my time playing.

 

My three kids have quit playing WF ffs.

 

World of tanks has done the same, Frontline we quit, stupid no life grinds, now you need a few hours play for 7 days to make 30k damage for a special crew. Jeez.

 

 

Funny thing is, many of us busy real life older players spend money, we have spent a small fortune enjoying online games, usually because of limited time and usually spend on items we just dont have time to grind.

 

Its like thank you for the support but if you dont commit 100% of your free time to our game tough luck.

[NaoEthelia]

23 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

By "screwed over", I imagine you mean "can't acquire the Saturn Six cosmetic items and an Umbral Forma, none of which are important to player progression". They can still play the Series for Cred, cosmetics, Potatoes and unique Mods. They just can't get everything. Anyone who doesn't play the game at all in over a month, can't have access to every single one of the rewards.

Yeah, Nightwave isn't perfect. But what is your definition of a fair cutoff point for players to acquire every reward? How many weeks should players be allowed to ignore this game completely and get the same rewards that those who regularly play do? Seven weeks? Eight weeks?

I imagine a fair cut-off would be 35-45% percent of the challenge. 65% percent is still considerably high initially, and the nightwave extension added two more weeks into the equation cutting it down to 55% percent. This is an improvement, but I personally think they need to go one more home stretch and further reduce it down to 35-45% of the challenge of the challenge.

[Uber.Munchkin]

Let me preface my comment here by quickly going over my situation.  I have limited playtime due to real life commitments, usually I can get an afternoon in over a weekend and occasionally an evening or two during the week.  This means that I am at about Rank 10 with Nightwave and unlikely to get beyond 12-14 before the challenge ends.

The thing is, I'm fine with that.  The Umbral Forma would be nice but it's not required, same with the armour set.  What the Nightwave Series has let me do is get the two Aura Mods that never came up on an alert while I was playing (Corrosive Projection and Rejuvenation) and grab a decent amount of Nitain for future use on builds, it's also gotten me a couple of nice cosmetics and a couple of slots. 

All told it's been pretty good for me from a casual player perspective.

I play the challenges that I can do as part of my normal playtime and occasionally make time for the others, I have a couple of friends who play and we do sorties together so that's always a way to get the 'sortie with friends' done.  I steer clear of the hour long survival and defense missions, they are not interesting to me, especially with limited playtime.  But the kill X with element Y has been a fun way to break out some underused weapons and throw an elemental build on them to try it out and the open world challenges are a reason to get out and explore the open world zones a bit more.

I accepted pretty early on that I wasn't going to get the top tier rewards as I just don't have enough playtime to dedicate to the game.  But that's fine, I've gotten what I wanted out of Nightwave and had a decent amount of fun doing so.  It'll be interesting to see what the next season has in store for us.

I think that all told it is a vast improvement on the alerts system.  My only complaint would be that the Wolf Himself is not that interesting an opponent to fight he's just a giant bullet sponge with a super powerful melee attack.  Also his drop table is garbage. 🙂

Happy Warframing folks.

[0_The_F00l]

38 minutes ago, Uber.Munchkin said:

Let me preface my comment here by quickly going over my situation.  I have limited playtime due to real life commitments, usually I can get an afternoon in over a weekend and occasionally an evening or two during the week.  This means that I am at about Rank 10 with Nightwave and unlikely to get beyond 12-14 before the challenge ends.

The thing is, I'm fine with that.  The Umbral Forma would be nice but it's not required, same with the armour set.  What the Nightwave Series has let me do is get the two Aura Mods that never came up on an alert while I was playing (Corrosive Projection and Rejuvenation) and grab a decent amount of Nitain for future use on builds, it's also gotten me a couple of nice cosmetics and a couple of slots. 

All told it's been pretty good for me from a casual player perspective.

I play the challenges that I can do as part of my normal playtime and occasionally make time for the others, I have a couple of friends who play and we do sorties together so that's always a way to get the 'sortie with friends' done.  I steer clear of the hour long survival and defense missions, they are not interesting to me, especially with limited playtime.  But the kill X with element Y has been a fun way to break out some underused weapons and throw an elemental build on them to try it out and the open world challenges are a reason to get out and explore the open world zones a bit more.

I accepted pretty early on that I wasn't going to get the top tier rewards as I just don't have enough playtime to dedicate to the game.  But that's fine, I've gotten what I wanted out of Nightwave and had a decent amount of fun doing so.  It'll be interesting to see what the next season has in store for us.

I think that all told it is a vast improvement on the alerts system.  My only complaint would be that the Wolf Himself is not that interesting an opponent to fight he's just a giant bullet sponge with a super powerful melee attack.  Also his drop table is garbage. 🙂

Happy Warframing folks.

You sir, I believe, are the model which DE built the system for. 

[SenorClipClop]

2 hours ago, NaoEthelia said:

I imagine a fair cut-off would be 35-45% percent of the challenge. 65% percent is still considerably high initially, and the nightwave extension added two more weeks into the equation cutting it down to 55% percent. This is an improvement, but I personally think they need to go one more home stretch and further reduce it down to 35-45% of the challenge of the challenge.

So you believe that it's fair to players to receive everything from the Series by doing less than half of it. What, then, is the point of having elite objectives if people can get everything accidentally, or by ignoring the game for ~2 months? And then, if you can get to the last exclusive item in as little as a third of the Series' time frame, what are the hard-core players going to do for the remaining ~2 months? If the requirements for everything are going to be that low and uncompelling, why even have objectives at all?

EDIT: If it wasn't clear, I strongly believe that less than 50% involvement for 100% completion is much too low.

Edited April 24, 2019 by SenorClipClop

[YUNoJump]

8 hours ago, SastusBulbas said:

Never hunted animals, no friends list, lucky if I can spend an hour. Time torn between WF and WoT.

 

I support the game, spend real money on it. But sick of the stupid no life grindwalls making so much content exclusive to the privileged in many of todays games

 

So you believe that people who put less time into something deserve just as much reward as people who put a lot of time in? It's unfortunate that you can't make more time to play, but if people got the same rewards irrespective of how much time they put into the game then what's the point of putting any time in at all? 

 

8 hours ago, SastusBulbas said:

Its not fun anymore, its a chore and if I dont get Umbral Forma and the Armour, i have wasted all my time playing.

 

You know there are rewards on the other levels right? Not just the Umbra Forma and the Armour? The Umbra Forma isn't even that useful anyway, it sounds like you don't really play enough to be doing stuff like levelling expensive Umbral mods and min-maxing endgame builds. If you're in a position where you're gonna have barely any time available it's probably not a good idea to focus solely on the absolute highest bar and ignore anything along the way.

 

8 hours ago, SastusBulbas said:

Funny thing is, many of us busy real life older players spend money, we have spent a small fortune enjoying online games, usually because of limited time and usually spend on items we just dont have time to grind.

 

Nobody forced you to give money to the game, it sounds like you don't really like the game at all so I'm not sure why you'd spend that much money on it. Generally the standard procedure is "spend money on a game because you like it" not "spend money on a game you don't like and get angry that the game doesn't change to suit what you want". 

[SastusBulbas]

1 hour ago, YUNoJump said:

 

So you believe that people who put less time into something deserve just as much reward as people who put a lot of time in? It's unfortunate that you can't make more time to play, but if people got the same rewards irrespective of how much time they put into the game then what's the point of putting any time in at all? 

 

 

You know there are rewards on the other levels right? Not just the Umbra Forma and the Armour? The Umbra Forma isn't even that useful anyway, it sounds like you don't really play enough to be doing stuff like levelling expensive Umbral mods and min-maxing endgame builds. If you're in a position where you're gonna have barely any time available it's probably not a good idea to focus solely on the absolute highest bar and ignore anything along the way.

 

 

Nobody forced you to give money to the game, it sounds like you don't really like the game at all so I'm not sure why you'd spend that much money on it. Generally the standard procedure is "spend money on a game because you like it" not "spend money on a game you don't like and get angry that the game doesn't change to suit what you want". 

I dont mind grinding frames or rewards, but brickwalling it with timegates is another matter and add to that the forced mission types that serve no purpose.

 

As for me, I played beta, a good part of my kids highschool got into WF through my lad who got into WF because he watched me play beta.

My three kids cant be bothered anymore, considering my eldest was more into it than I ever was....

 

I returned at the tail end of 2018 to an acount with nothing but a few basic weapons, since then built my own full dojo, grinded anything going, own all prime apart from the beta, and a dual pistol, and have all regular frames too. 

 

So not exactly lazy or avoiding any bloody grind.

 

Though your right, I dont min-max end game builds, most are based on builds a few of the Youtubers post vids of, though I have an Inaros with Lazy tank and another Inaros with Umbral mods and forma'd a little different.

 

A few duplicate frames. My last forma build was playing with Mk1 Braton and so far 7 forma. So no, nothing serious. Casual play, liked alerts, platooning with my kids. 

 

I have still to max out standing in Fortuna and the Plains, still a lot of MR tests ive avoided since last year, a lot of builds and weapons to play with. 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by SastusBulbas

[Riger82]

On 2019-04-21 at 10:19 PM, NaoEthelia said:

Dedicated players will still be rewarded for dedication. Hard to get cosmetics would still be reserved for those willing to put in the hours to grind them since they're locked at rank 30. Prestiges in the current nightwave is also non-existent since there's no exclusive reward beyond Rank 30 armor.

Making Nightwave Series permanent won't change that. 🙂

What grind? I missed the first three weeks of Nightwave, and I'm already only one more week from getting the tier 30 reward. Its no different from any other event that had event specific cosmetics. You were either there to get it, or you weren't. Its that simple.

Go beg Blizzard to let people get the 2015 Christmas cosmetics and toys because some missed them because they weren't playing. Its no different than what you're wanting here.

[Lysithea.Nya]

On 2019-04-22 at 8:01 AM, NaoEthelia said:

they are effectively screwed over

It is their problems

[(PSN)Ch1b1N1njaGam1ng]

On 2019-04-22 at 6:04 AM, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

First time I've seen a thread title need a TL;DR.

Nightwave Bad

[SastusBulbas]

On 2019-04-24 at 5:13 PM, YUNoJump said:

 

So you believe that people who put less time into something deserve just as much reward as people who put a lot of time in? It's unfortunate that you can't make more time to play, but if people got the same rewards irrespective of how much time they put into the game then what's the point of putting any time in at all? 

 

 

You know there are rewards on the other levels right? Not just the Umbra Forma and the Armour? The Umbra Forma isn't even that useful anyway, it sounds like you don't really play enough to be doing stuff like levelling expensive Umbral mods and min-maxing endgame builds. If you're in a position where you're gonna have barely any time available it's probably not a good idea to focus solely on the absolute highest bar and ignore anything along the way.

 

 

Nobody forced you to give money to the game, it sounds like you don't really like the game at all so I'm not sure why you'd spend that much money on it. Generally the standard procedure is "spend money on a game because you like it" not "spend money on a game you don't like and get angry that the game doesn't change to suit what you want". 

 

Lol. I completed Nightwave after all. 

[SlamH]

On 2019-04-22 at 5:27 PM, Mez999 said:

This thread reads more like “I’ve missed the start so DE should extend it because I want the rewards”. 

I completely agree, the people that play Nightwave get the Nightwave rewards and the people that dont, dont get the rewards. There is nothing unfair about that

[Yagamilight123]

En 24/4/2019 a las 4:46, NaoEthelia dijo:

I imagine a fair cut-off would be 35-45% percent of the challenge. 65% percent is still considerably high initially, and the nightwave extension added two more weeks into the equation cutting it down to 55% percent. This is an improvement, but I personally think they need to go one more home stretch and further reduce it down to 35-45% of the challenge of the challenge.

You dont play when the event happen you dont get the rewards ... its not that hard to understand ... its how 99.9% of the online events works .

[Psykhe27]

Wolf's mask does not exist. I slaughter this fool and get NOTHING!!!!

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

On 2019-04-21 at 10:01 PM, NaoEthelia said:

Having to do only 65% of the challenges effectively means that if any returning players have passed the 35% leeway, which in this case means Week 5 - Week 10, they are effectively screwed over. The slight deadline expansion is good to have as it extends the deadline to roughly Week 12, which reduces the minimal requirement to 55% of all challenges, but the numbers are still not good. It still means that roughly 55% of returning player (which in this case Week 6 - Week 12) are effectively too late to join. Nightwave as it is, is currently hostile towards long-term returning players, the very playerbase that you want to keep, and you don't want to screw them over, do you?

Let's fix that.

Nightwave series and any series in the future should be permanent. Let us pick routes on what we want to work towards. This would effectively remove the pressure to continuously play this game, and not only this will be a QoL feature for players that may not have that much time on their hands to begin with, it would also still welcome any returning players with a reasonable chance to catch up what they have missed.

PS. Please keep this thread civil.

This... is actually the first piece of nightwave commentary that I think has some merit.