(The Jovian Concord: Update 25) New Boss Fight: Ropalolyst Feedback

[minidelight]

wow what a terrible and extremely buggy boss fight.......

 

.DE just stop doing boss figths, STOP IT ffs! , after all these years all we got was sup par boss fights, where only the cetus eidolons were kinda decent and maybe the profit taker minus the knockdowns. And now we got what its IMHO the worst boss fight  in the game, awful gameplay mechanics, not fun at all.

 

the only good thing i have to say about the boss is that it looks good, so good job for the design/art team...........gameplay wise is a dumpster fire

[84773-RY]

I personally enjoyed the fight. First time I played I soloed with Valkyr, and kinda ran about and experimented to work out what to do.

Having fought sentients before I tried the operator weapon fairly early on and when I found after taking down the shield I could not harm it still, I jumped at it (Similar to Exploiter) in the hopes of finding a epic cut scene, and discovered the grab prompt. It was after this, it took me longer to work out what to do.

I got the right idea by ramming against the conduits but due to not being charged they did not do much. Took me longer to work out they needed charging first. 

Once land-bound I took down the back thingis a good 5+ times before by chance spotting the console button.

 

However, once I eagerly invited a friend along they had a vastly different experience. The lasers Valkyr was able to mostly shrug off would one hit kill them, their cues too fast once lag was factored in for them to dodge. The Lotus transmissions took up way too much space for them to run and gun through. And often after they fall off they get blasted by one of the above lasers before they could recover. 

 

I have the following ideas and suggestions however:

• When you grab the Ropalolyst and ram an un-charged conduit, I would suggest a light zapping and either Lotus or Alad V announcing that you'd need more power than that. This would at least let you know you are on the right track.
• The console to fire the laser could have more attention drawn to it. Maybe have it a big console, behind a big blast screen (replacing one of the cover-blocks that already exists) to draw more attention to it. A big conduit coming from that to the laser above could help too.
• When Ropalolyst grabs you, the delay without being able to do anything is frustrating. I have a few suggestions there
  • Maybe it could immediately throw you, either off the map (with recovery option) or into the ground (for knockdown)
  • Another option is if it grabs you in your warframe to automatically force you into operator to fall down and attack to free your frame (or be pulled back and take damage)
  • For if your operator is grabbed, it could immediately crush you to take you back to your frame.
• For the Lotus transmissions I think there should be two options when selecting the node, with transmissions, without. In a similar way to how you have the option when selecting nightmare or normal for a node. Without transmissions could also cut down the distance needed to travel to get to the fight.
• I'm a little sad our operator did not react at all to what the lotus was saying, but can understand why as it would get in the way with how we feel with the new/revelation.
• The grabbing of Ropalolyst could be an automatic thing same as Exploiter.
• I'd also up the health a little (No more than double) and lower the damage by the same amount. This would be a fun mission for Zephyr to shine but if I recall she's not a tanky frame.

Edited May 23, 2019 by 84773-RY
Removed bug stuff

[Prime_bucket]

Boss fight design feedback:

1. There's no visual indication of inhibited Operator abilities.

2. Ropalolyst grabbing a Warframe mechanic can go 5 times in a row. Especially in the last phase. Stunlocks are more annoying than 1HKO.

3. There's no clear instruction for what we actually need to do. That's for all 3 phases.

4. Transmission from Natah is obstructing half of the screen.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Prime_bucket
Removed bug report, will post it in bug-thread.

[--END--Rikutatis]

For everyone complaining about 1 hit kills, you do realize you can dodge and/or take cover behind the huge boxes in the arena right? The lasers are telegraphed enough that you know it's coming. I swear, it feels like you guys just want to stand still and face tank everything in the game.

[Krowiplacek]

As the title says, if the Flydolon grabs you when you're solo (and it will, the grab is EXTREMELY spammy, I've had encounters where it grabbed me like 5 times in a row with me unable to do anything), you can't get out of the claw, since there's no one there to shoot it. Sometimes transference works, but it's really unreliable because of that nullifier mechanic and doesn't get the frame out of it so you just stand there doing nothing anyway until the boss drops your frame.

It's a really easy fix, I'd suggest implementing button mashing as a way to get free, reducing the time the Ropalyst holds you and giving the grab better telegraphs+a cooldown.

And for the love of god, have the playtesters also play the content you're putting out solo, obvious stuff like this always somehow gets through >.<

[Drachnyn]

You can transfer out and then shoot the hand with your space kid.

[Ophiolith]

27 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

For everyone complaining about 1 hit kills, you do realize you can dodge and/or take cover behind the huge boxes in the arena right? The lasers are telegraphed enough that you know it's coming. I swear, it feels like you guys just want to stand still and face tank everything in the game.

I personally don't feel like the damage those beams do is a huge issue, especially in a squad, and the telegraphing isn't all that bad, but currently I feel the dodging could stand to be a touch more forgiving.  There were quite a few times I died due to the lasers covering a large enough area that I simply couldn't evade in time.

Other than that, I agree.  In terms of problems with the fight overall, it's definitely least concern type stuff imo.

[Ophiolith]

So after a bit more time mulling the fight over and getting a night's sleep, I have a few more thoughts on the Ropalolyst fight overall:

Conceptually, I really like the direction DE are taking boss battles.  Having patterns to suss and light environmental puzzling feels good, and having challenge that can't be inherently trivialised my minmaxing is IMO a huge step in the right direction for what should constitute high-level content.

Where it falls down however is, unfortunately, execution.  Quite apart from the current bugs which I'm sure will be ironed out in the coming days, the whole thing just feels like it needs a bit more polish.  At the very least, some textual prompts in the style of The War Within / Kuva Flood would be incredibly helpful for newcomers trying to figure out the flow of the battle, but more than that, I feel like the Ropalolyst itself could do with a good deal more visual info regarding its state.  Does its shield need depleted with a void weapon, or is it just in an invulnerability phase?  When should it be considered vulnerable to being grappled (random quips from Alad V aside)?  Further to that, there were a lot of random shield depletions, magnetic damage, stunlocking, nullification, ability locks, one-hit kills etc that came out of absolutely nowhere.  I'm sure maybe they were telegraphed by something at some point, but I feel this leads back to one of Warframe's ongoing problems, which is that there can often be so much visual clutter it can be difficult to figure out what is going on during more intense combat.

I want to love this boss and I hope DE iterate further on its mechanics going forward, but it currently replicates a whole bunch of bugbears that have plagued the game for years.

[Guest]

Solo notes: -

Event is interesting, and on a par with expected new style WF bosses. It doesn't come across so much as a blocker, more of something to get Wisp and progress the story.

It's not as challenging as the Eidolons, but it is satisfying. All in all, its a step up from your oldskool bosses, which we like so pretty good.
Once you work out the telegraphs, and stop trying to block with your face, its much more enjoyable event.

Also: I switched to Zephyr for this event and have not regretted it 🙂

Feedback:

• As noted above, HPs of the synoid nodes might be a little low, but I do possess prior experience in breaking these things, knowing what weapons and damage type to use.
• It certainly picks itself up very quickly after damaging the synoid, which initially gave the impression I was doing something wrong.
• Using operator mode to get out of being grabbed should be a thing - the frame should teleport to your location regardless. Currently you can wait in operator mode (10-15 secs?) until the animation thing ends, then get your frame, but if you go back early, then you're still in the grasp of the boss.
• Only 1 really picky thing: After you slam the boss into a capacitor - and as you are just recovering from the fadeout from the cutscene of the platform(s) being destroyed - the boss is already firing lasers as it is picking itself off the floor, rather than giving you any breather. Once you know this, it's a case of just rolling straight out of the cutscene, but it should really wait until the boss is actually stood up before it starts pelting you with lasers again.
• Took me a while to work out that you had to drive the thing into the capacitor chamber - Rocket and chicken ceasar sAlad V's ambiguous dialogue wasn't much help in places, as it was often mis-timed - you were already waaaay ahead whilst he was "helping" with something two stages prior.

We've yet to realise the full LOL potential of the name. I give the better meme's a couple of days.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Guest
Additional feedback

[Raso719]

Once bugs are dealt with I'm sure the fight will be fun. In the meantime, however  

-It charges its instant kill shot ALL THE TIME even during cut scenes or when it transitions into more scripted moments. This means if you aren't in operator form before a cut scene starts your die. Period. The end. Unless there are 3+ people present in which case maybe you'll be the lucky one not to get shot. 

-Lots of instances where you'll fall and then spawn back into the same place you fell from.

-Can we make it so that if the Ropalolyst still has void shields you can't mount it? Ive heard it said that this was the case but it isn't. This just leads to too much trolling. 

-I can't readily tell when dangling the BFG/orbital strike actually connects. Make it more obvious please?

-Ropalolyat frequently gets stuck in the upper structure of the capacitors. 

-Entering and exiting Operator gets very glitchy during the boss fight. I've been stuck as a non-existent operator a few times who was unable to use any abilities.

-When defeated I don't always teleport to the end. Sometimes when I do I'm stuck. Each platform seems to be deliberately placed an inch and a half further than you can typically aim glide after a bullet jump. I don't know why this is. If you're gonna put them that far out please place some wires or something we can run on.

-leaping between cables leading to the capacity seems clunky. Can there be some sort of way to just seamlessly leap between the rows?

[CeejAttack]

Overall, a very interesting boss fight.  I'll be interested to do it more once a lot of the bugs have been fixed.  But that leads me to what I feel is a big negative with it;  the reward table.  There isn't a reason to go back and do this boss fight once you have wisp parts and the mods, except just for fun once and a while.  I feel like there needs to be something more valuable to work for.  Best example I could give is how the eidolons have arcanes.  Gives plenty reason to keep farming them.  That's the main thing I'd like to see change.  Just feels lacking, especially since you can't do this fight until you've gotten pretty far into the game.  But it's a cool fight, and I just want a reason to keep doing it.  

Edited May 23, 2019 by CeejAttack

[hyzmarca]

8 hours ago, _Behemot said:

Giving it a bit more health, means that I can bring a group with me to a fun boss fight. I don't mind a bullet sponge as long as its fun. Keyword here is fun. Ropalolyst is fun, it just doesn't last long at all. A Lowbee can go find a clan or a group to play with to get the full co op experience, solo players are normally most of the time GOD like so it doesn't matter if it has boosted health. If you are past the sacrifice you aren't a lowbee anymore. The Ropalolyst isn't an armored tank. Giving it more health would not hurt the boss fight at all. If you realize that you will need more ammo packs to beat it build it. Its part of the games system, use it. Stop giving them excuses. I have 2 clan member lowbees that I took with me to the boss fight and they was disappointed by how fast it ended and then they logged off cause they didn't care about the rest of the update. DE is focusing too much on the farming aspect not the experience of an awesome fight, lengthy fight, people tend to not care about how long it takes as long as its fun thats why people love their endurance runs, because theres fun in that for people. Same thing with boss fights, bosses should have mechanics yes, but also health. Thats how it is in all video games Final Fantasy, Guild Wars, Maplestory, Mabinogi, Vindictus, Dragon Nest, Megaman, Spyro, literally any game that features a boss, is a damage sponge, but warframe is the opposite, the complete opposite. But I digress. I just find it ironic that time was spent on this boss to look and seem amazing to be so weak health wise. How did Wolf of Saturn 6, a assassin have more health, than a huge sentient node boss thats the lead up to the new war. Mabye I'm just too strong.

You can always bring weaker weapons with lower-ranked mods.   There's nothing preventing you from doing less damage if you want more of a challenge. 

Personally, I found it to be just right,  in terms of time required to kill.  I don't have to spend ages plinking at it with meta weapons, like Wolf.  I don't need a hyper-specific meta setup to kill it in less than an hour,  like the Plains Eidolons.  It doesn't have forced waiting like Ambulas.  And it doesn't get one-shotted by someone else before I even reach it like every other node boss.

Edited May 23, 2019 by hyzmarca

[spliffy69]

Hi ... First a big thank you for the remastered gas city. It looks amazing. The beginning of the boss fight brings a long speech from Natah and it blurs half the screen. Very very annoying when everyone is speed running parkour to the start of the boss fight. I experienced in one run a returning blackout screen every second after i got killed and/or fall of the platform. Another run gave me a black screen when i fall of the platform and it just stayed black. ... 

[Azrael]

5 hours ago, UnderRevision said:

6 hours ago, Azrael said:

Last time I was grabbed I pressed 5 and got out of it. It's not a guaranteed death.

Really?  How odd.  I tried doing the controller equivalent several times and it didn't work.  I'll check again next time I fight it.

Actually, later on I tried that and it kinda worked, in the sense that I went operator and used the floor laser to force him to drop my frame. 😄

But I've also been dropped without dying, I guess just after a set time?

[Wgni]

Basically all the complaints I have with this boss.

Also, Natah obstructing our field of view for about 3 minutes straight doesn't make it any better.

[DoomFruit]

1 hour ago, Drachnyn said:

You can transfer out and then shoot the hand with your space kid.

 

2 hours ago, Krowiplacek said:

Sometimes transference works, but it's really unreliable because of that nullifier mechanic and doesn't get the frame out of it so you just stand there doing nothing anyway until the boss drops your frame.

As above.

[Smilomaniac]

26 minutes ago, Wgni said:

Also, Natah obstructing our field of view for about 3 minutes straight doesn't make it any better.

No kidding, after the second mission I had to put transmission and speech audio down to 0, just so I could hear what my friends were saying on voice.

[selimsrm]

This has mostly been commented already but my impressions of the fight;

Dialog that covers half the screen is obnoxious, some of the syndicates do it in an invasion and Natah should be shrunk to the smaller window after the first completion.

Instructions for the fight are unclear, I sorted out the charging the towers with the Ropas beam and to lower shields with operator but it took a few minutes to figures out to grab it and crash it into a tower. Once on the ground the 'fins" on it's back were obvious targets but Alad V saysing "hit it big" didn't alert me to the panel to fire the laser.

The tiles to reach the boss have a few locations where the waypoint is oddly placed on the map and the larger parkour areas can be tricky if a players doesn't have void dash (mind sprint and void flow) maxed out to get seven dashes.

Other than some occasional clipping of the Ropa into the platform, the fight feels solid and can be done relatively quickly solo and in a group.

[Cody]

video shows enough. this was during the phase of trying to burst the limbs from the back of the boss. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIcumWP9oJw&feature=youtu.be

[Loza03]

Two main complaints

First: Operator powers can be nullified for the first time. Specifically void dash. I've had several times where I've wanted to dash up to the Ropalolyst or across a gap and I just jump off like a lemon because my dash decided it didn't want to work? But other times it does. At least have some form of indicator as to when I can or cannot use my base Operator moveset.

Second: During cinematics, enemies spawn and lock onto you before you can move. And, in fact, spawn right next to you. And, furthermore, are on a tiny platform when they're designed for long-range engagements with lots of dodging room (due to the design of the Gas City). Have fun getting insta-gibbed!

 

Otherwise it's a pretty fun engagement.

[PY-R0]

Firstly, the name. Whoever told you that Rope-A-Loli is a good name, they lied. Fire them.

Secondly, the Flydolon itself is almost no threat at all. Yes, you can get insta-killed, but honestly, if you jump around you can avoid it easily. Bigger threat are the Amalgams and smaller Sentients. That's not how a BOSS fight should be.

Thirdly, enviromental kills. So we have all this amazing gear and Frames, to kill a boss by using a console.

 

When you smash all the bugs, this will be the second easiest boss fight in Warframe. Second, because you can't beat Sergeants level. 

[LeTigreVolant]

The fight is cool and all but once you get the 5 mods and wisp you just have nothing to farm at all, just a little bit of focus or something like that would be great just for the incentive to fight it again.

[shut]

9 hours ago, Snackrat said:

Random nullifying effects. From what? Not the boss, it isn't looking at me, its over by a battery where my teammates are doing the mechanics as normal. Not other mobs, there aren't any. They died immediately a while ago. Nope, just nullified. And it isn't a standard null because you lose everything. *Even your Operator*. I can't even Void Dash. I can't even transfer back. I literally can't do anything. There is no telegraph for how and why this is. It just happens. There's nothing to learn here, just accept that fate hates you.

THIS. Holy mother of god, THIS.

The inconsistent, untelegraphed mapwide nullifications turned an otherwise-fun fight into one of the most miserable experiences I've had in this game. Transferring between Warframe<->Operator is pathetically unresponsive, Void Dashing is blocked for several seconds for some reason (and often boots you out of Operator mode when successful), Warframe abilities seem to be occasionally blocked as well... and all with no telegraphing whatsoever.

The best ^{(read: worst)} part of this is that it's not even a consistent nullification. When players try to do outlawed actions such as transferring or Void Dashing, it'll sometimes succeed-- meaning that they're going to keep trying to do it, only to be disappointed and frustrated 90% of the time.

 

All Operator-related content released over the past year and a half revolved around seamlessly swapping between Operator and Warframe in mid-combat. Players have been encouraged to rely on synergies between the two, and to let the modes make up for each others' weaknesses. Experienced players have spent the past year and a half creating builds for (and developing muscle memory around) this seamless swapping.

The Ropalolyst fight kind of just... shat on top of all of that.

 

EDIT: Other issues in this fight:

• Ropalolyst can grab you without telegraphing. What the hell's the point of the ropalolyst's slow "reach down and grab" animation if it'll auto-snatch regardless of whether it's doing the actual "grab" part of the animation?
• Solo players are helpless against the grab, but can transfer into Operator to escape... after about 5 seconds of being sandbagged. (I get that being able to transfer into Operator instantly would trivialize this, but is there not a better way? For example, blocking transference entirely BUT letting the warframe button-mash to escape?)
• When you recall your frame after escaping the grab as Operator, your frame will still be grabbed. Which is wildly inconsistent with the gameplay that we're used to-- shouldn't the frame come to you, instead of the other way around?
• The above still happens even if your frame falls to the ground upon transferring to Operator. Your frame isn't in the ropalolyst's hand, your operator isn't in the ropalolyst's hand, but upon transferring... your frame magically just materializes in the ropalolyst's hand?

Edited May 23, 2019 by SortaRandom

[DDDarkHunterrrrr]

The nullifier effect on the Ropalyst fight SUCKS when using Limbo. I just tried running that fight with him, and none of my abilities worked. AT ALL. Honestly i hope thats just the nullifier affect and you guys can just remove it. Im guessing its not though as whenever i rolled i was instantly put out of the rift, and i was able to cast cataclysm without it turning off, but walking in it did absolutely nothing, like some sort of glitch in the matrix. Iv got a sneaking feeling DE wanted to just remove limbo from this as an "i win button". I hope not though. It would be nice to not get punched below the belt for simply wanting to play the game the way we want. Just let the boss's attacks go through. The other eidolons have moves that ignore rift. Use that mechanic and just give us the 2 energy/second passive and the ability to ignore fodder enemies, instead of just kicking us for playing characters you guys make. Till that whole deal gets fixed, theres no point in even considering using limbo for that boss fight, which just blows. Id like to have fun please. Thats what games are for.

Moving on from the limbo rant, the nullifier affect just straight up blows in general. Its absolutely horrible and seems like incredibly lazy game design. If you want your boss to not instantly die from an ability, or not get completely cheesed, you should have your boss do something creative to go around it. Have it fly to the center of the map and do an EMP pulse or something, or have it make a claw attack that procs magnetic to drain energy. Maybe there are amalgams that can HEAL the boss mid fight. Its your game, get creative with it. Dont just use the lame excuse of "we want this boss to not insta die so we're gonna effectively cheat with our dev powers". Thats honestly what it feels like. Its like the boss was given anti fun cheats or something, and its really obnoxious. To make matters worse, the nullie affect is really glitchy, with abilities getting negated at random. And dont get me started with how infuriating dealing with operator form in that fight is. Constantly getting stuck trying to go between forms is just stupid, along with anything else that comes up in the mission.

Next problem! This thing has no HP, and its just infuriating. For something you guys really hyped up the dude's health pool cant take much more than a hit from a marshmallow. The only challenging thing about the fight is the irritating "no fun allowed" cheats i mentioned before, and the fact that he can just casually 1 shot you. Hes just a really irritating flying noodle that goes down in like 5 to 10 minutes tops because the only thing hes good for is making you wanna not play this game. The 1 shotting isn't even that bad after you know to roll like your in dark souls and your life depends on it. Its just a pain.

Now lets talk about the lovely problem i found with the scourge (gun spear). It cant damage the boss. It just cant. Theres something wrong with the hit registration or something, because the shot just explodes a mile away from the actual body of the eidolon. I dont know if its due to the weapon shooting projectiles, or if its because it can do splash damage, or something else. Im gonna go and run some tests with weapons to try to figure out which weapons just get completely back handed.

(EDIT: i decided to bite the bullet and farm whisp, and while we're here, MOOOOOORE PROBLEMS!!!)

1. The boss will randomly vanish off the map, hitbox and all, and will then reappear a short amount of time later in a random location

2. The boss can still 1 shot you DURING cutscenes

3. Climbing on the boss before it charges one of the turbines breaks the fight permanently. Only fix is the host leaving the mission and the session reloading

4. Aim gliding while pressing X (or bound key) to climb on the boss will break your camera after the cutscene, forcing you to be constantly aiming, and zoomed in

5. The boss will randomly teleport all over the boss room at random. This happens at any point during the fight, including when it should be getting lasered by the ceiling

6. Occasionally the laser pointer animation (used to show where the 1 hit kill attacks will hit) will break, causing the boss to instead instantly 1 shot you with aimbot levels of accuracy with no warning

7. The boss will sometimes EMP you without playing an animation

8. The giant laser the boss fires (used to charge the turbines) will sometimes not interact with the turbine hitboxes, causing them to not charge

9. The animation of your warframe climbing on the boss is completely broken, causing your frame to glitch out, freeze, and levitate off screen, before teleporting on to the boss's head

10. Boss will sometimes clip through the floor during the knocked down phase of the fight (where you use the ceiling laser), making it impossible to damage the 2 nodes on its back

11: Boss AI will sometimes get confused if 2 players are at different turbines, causing the boss to fly to 1 turbine, but then whip around and fire its laser at the other player from across the map

12: giant laser (used to charge turbines) seems to partially clip through/around edges of turbines, killing players behind cover

(END OF EDIT)

 

Summery: This fight is a giant irritating mess. It's just a lazily made boss with too little HP, anti fun cheats, lazy 1 shot mechanics, and apparently a semi broken hitbox. The only redeeming factor is how you use the environment to kill it, but that also gets pretty boring.

I was really wanting the mods it drops, but this boss is such an irritating waste of 1s and 0s that im honestly not going to bother. I'm just gonna avoid it and get my mods from somewhere else. Its not worth the pointless headache this boss brings. Someone let me know when its worth fighting.

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by DDDarkHunterrrrr
Added list of other bugs

[Ham_Grenabe]

I ran it today to clear the node. I don’t think I’ll do it again:

1) There’s nothing much to get from it (since I bought Wisp specifically to avoid another Hildryn-farm experience, and the Amalgam mods are for weapons I’ve mastered and never used since).

2) It’s fairly uneventful.

3) I have to listen, and watch, an interminable monologue that obscures half my screen.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Ham_Grenabe