Demolyst is now just another immune HP sink

[Enialyx]

So a few days ago, the demolyst could be slowed by Nova's molecular prime just fine.
Today, absolutely no effect.

Could we please stop with these immune HP sink bosses?

It cuts down variety from the game, directing players to use frames which merely buff themselves or the group.

[Steel_Rook]

While I agree with this in principle, Demolysts are a unique situation. They aren't just combat bosses, but rather suicide rushers. Being able to stop them in place essentially undermines their entire design. And considering the Demolysts are literally the only thing capable of destroying a Conduit in the time allotted, undermining them undermines the entire game mode. While that's not always a bad thing, making Demolysts vulnerable to control turns the entirety of Disruption into a gear check. Do you have hard control? If so, you win. If not, come back when you do.

I honestly don't see any way to make the Disruption game mode work without making Demolysts ability-immune. There are far too many ways to cheese them otherwise.

[Walkampf]

In this particular case, it actually makes sense. It forces most people to communicate to take him down before he destroys an objective.

Allowing it to be CCed whould defeat it's very purpose.

[atejas]

They're still vulnerable, they just periodically cast nullification bursts. They've always been like that.

[(PSN)robi191291]

hace 1 minuto, Steel_Rook dijo:

While I agree with this in principle, Demolysts are a unique situation. They aren't just combat bosses, but rather suicide rushers. Being able to stop them in place essentially undermines their entire design. And considering the Demolysts are literally the only thing capable of destroying a Conduit in the time allotted, undermining them undermines the entire game mode. While that's not always a bad thing, making Demolysts vulnerable to control turns the entirety of Disruption into a gear check. Do you have hard control? If so, you win. If not, come back when you do.

I honestly don't see any way to make the Disruption game mode work without making Demolysts ability-immune. There are far too many ways to cheese them otherwise.

Agree. 

I think that the demolyst it´s not the problem, if not the other enemies. Here have sense with the others no. 

At this point i think the abbilities of CC and Nuke need a rework. Because buff the CC and nerf the nuke not gonna change nothing. 

[Enialyx]

This trivializes warframe abilities.

Why are we even doing 5-forma warframe builds, if the only use for boosted abilities is to kill basic enemies? 
You can kill those with basic frames with zero forma.

Abilities should be available as tactical counters to specific problems. Exactly like in mastery rank tests. Now, it's just one immune hp sink after another.

[Jivy]

i just think of them as these guys

[Drasiel]

5 minutes ago, atejas said:

They're still vulnerable, they just periodically cast nullification bursts. They've always been like that.

This. There haven't been any patches yet today. 

[Steel_Rook]

1 minute ago, Enialyx said:

Abilities should be available as tactical counters to specific problems. Exactly like in mastery rank tests. Now, it's just one immune hp sink after another.

That turns everything into a gear check, though, which heavily undermines the actual "gameplay" aspect. If all problems are solved by simply bringing the "correct" Warframe and sleep-walking to it, the core gameplay loop is reduced to just inventory. I have the impression that DE are still trying to design a game to be actively played, with mechanics encounter mechanics which matter. That requires some amount of cheese to ensure that the mechanics cannot be entirely circumvented, as well as to reduce the feeling of HAVING to play a specific set of Warframes on a specific game mode.

One of the reasons I don't like Defence missions, for instance, is that bringing Frost or Gaara makes SUCH a massive difference that I feel no motivation to bring anything else.

[adry306]

For me the problem is that warframe abilities are completely useless for those immune enemies, why make them useless? If they worked it'd just be too op, that's right, but why not make them work to a lesser extent? Instead of making them completely stop, maybe slow them? (for some abilities like vauban's and stuff like that, that makes the enemies stop completely), banshee's weak points should work (maybe they do and i don't know about it), nezha's divine Spears? Ragdoll them for like 1s, maybe with a "cooldown" so it couldn't be spammed (synthesis targets have that btw) , make procs work too, but obviously dont make the enemy stop if he's burning, just let it burn and take damage. radiation? It takes damage from allies. Cold? Slow him, a little bit, i think you get the point. but hey, I'm not a dev, maybe that would be too hard to implement or doesn't make sense to them, this is just my opinion, ignore it if you want, reply if you want

[Enialyx]

16 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

I have the impression that DE are still trying to design a game to be actively played, with mechanics encounter mechanics which matter. That requires some amount of cheese to ensure that the mechanics cannot be entirely circumvented, as well as to reduce the feeling of HAVING to play a specific set of Warframes on a specific game mode.

I can respect this. However, there's a difference between some cheese and full immunity for every boss.

[Ced23Ric]

54 minutes ago, Enialyx said:

Do you always reply with snide comments to customers giving feedback in the actual feedback section?

Isn't this #General Discussion?

[YazMatazO]

1 hour ago, Enialyx said:

So a few days ago, the demolyst could be slowed by Nova's molecular prime just fine.
Today, absolutely no effect.

Could we please stop with these immune HP sink bosses?

It cuts down variety from the game, directing players to use frames which merely buff themselves or the group.

There are different types of those. There is one that is really tanky and does nothing else than rush you down. Others try to do something else, some of them get status procs so you can do more damage with your redeemer. 

There actually is more variety there than this lets on. 

[ZeroBladeTV]

Bullet sponge bosses that are immune to all Warframe abilities are the most lazy way of adding any content, imho. They just take the frame away from Warframe and it just becomes War, since ofc you're gonna use the frame that has self damage buff to kill them with weapons.

They take a unique game and turn it into just another shooter.

[lnfine]

I believe nothing changed.

Demo does nulli pulses that strip all the bad stuff from it. It also gets adaptive resistance to powers.

It was the case in the first day too - I was running Nova, and demo was stripping M.Prime just fine. You just had a short window to abuse the damage multiplier and slow before the pulse.

I think even Lockdown eventually gets ineffective if you use it too much on demo.

The only thing I found Demo unable to outright strip with the nulli pulse is Peaceful Provocation because it's not a status effect in the classical sense. But I believe Demo still develops resistance to it's effect.

[Enialyx]

17 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

Isn't this #General Discussion?

 

Wow. So it seems to be. I really thought I put this in general feedback !

 

14 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

It may have been moved? Who knows >_>

 

Yeah, actually I think it was. Remember it being just under "My Input Melee 3.0 Blocking" there.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Enialyx
Multi-answer

[undeas]

I have said in the beggining this is other bring chroma/roar rhino game mode...

(May be one support if you are going for a long time of ocurse)

[Sahansral]

CC frames loose again, damage continues to rule supreme. 

Nothing new. *sigh*

[Kyoresh]

1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:

If all problems are solved by simply bringing the "correct" Warframe and sleep-walking to it, the core gameplay loop is reduced to just inventory

You mean exactly like Eidolons, ESO or arbitrations?

[SordidDreams]

2 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Being able to stop them in place essentially undermines their entire design.

Not being able to stop them undermines the entire design of every frame whose abilities include stopping enemies.

Quote

And considering the Demolysts are literally the only thing capable of destroying a Conduit in the time allotted, undermining them undermines the entire game mode.

By the same token, Chroma being able to kill bosses quickly due to his buffed damage undermines every boss fight, Saryn being able to wipe the room with her spores undermines the ESO game mode, and so on and so forth.

Or maybe, just maybe, some frames being stronger than others in certain game modes is the whole point and gives purpose to both the frames and the modes. DE have stated they want to counteract the damage meta that has developed, where CC frames are considered useless. Well this mode here was a perfect opportunity for that. A swing and a miss.

Quote

making Demolysts vulnerable to control turns the entirety of Disruption into a gear check

WF is a heavily stat-based game, basically everything in it is a gear check. Indeed, them being immune to (or able to cancel) CC abilities doesn't make them a skill check, it just makes them a DPS gear check rather than a CC gear check.

Edited May 27, 2019 by SordidDreams

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:

While I agree with this in principle, Demolysts are a unique situation. They aren't just combat bosses, but rather suicide rushers. Being able to stop them in place essentially undermines their entire design. And considering the Demolysts are literally the only thing capable of destroying a Conduit in the time allotted, undermining them undermines the entire game mode. While that's not always a bad thing, making Demolysts vulnerable to control turns the entirety of Disruption into a gear check. Do you have hard control? If so, you win. If not, come back when you do.

I honestly don't see any way to make the Disruption game mode work without making Demolysts ability-immune. There are far too many ways to cheese them otherwise.

How is this situation any different?  It's a DPS gear check.  The only things you can bring that are useful are buffers.  Do you have a buffer?  If so, you win.  If not, come back when you do.

A truly valid concern is the lack of counter play.  Even something as simple as being able to melee yeet it into a wall only when it's in the middle of doing it's exploding dance would be enough.  (And then it runs back to the console.)  That way there is at least something to do instead of being a strait DPS check.  This way even if you don't choose a buff frame you can do something useful for the fight.  There is still the issue of making the majority of frames useless, but at least the mode would be in a condition I think most people would accept.

[Pretzellis]

Except you can indeed affect demolysts with abilities?  They just have a periodic nully effect that cancels them early.  

That's very different from being outright immune.

[Ephemiel]

2 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

While I agree with this in principle, Demolysts are a unique situation. They aren't just combat bosses, but rather suicide rushers. Being able to stop them in place essentially undermines their entire design. And considering the Demolysts are literally the only thing capable of destroying a Conduit in the time allotted, undermining them undermines the entire game mode. While that's not always a bad thing, making Demolysts vulnerable to control turns the entirety of Disruption into a gear check. Do you have hard control? If so, you win. If not, come back when you do.

I honestly don't see any way to make the Disruption game mode work without making Demolysts ability-immune. There are far too many ways to cheese them otherwise.

Taking into account they recently admitted that the Demolysts were pretty much a last minute addition, it's clear they don't care.

[bibmobello]

They should reset the scores...

[NaoEthelia]

-snip-

Edited May 27, 2019 by NaoEthelia