Did the orokin really die?

[Pinegulf]

Hello, 

So why were the Tenno able to massacre the orokin?

Ordis Karris was unable to kill them

The Orokin whom Karris believes he has “murdered,” are revealed to have died countless times,

Yet, the Tenno were: 

When the ninth beat rang a torrent of blood filled the stadium, loosed by Tenno blades. The drums, the Empire, fell silent forever.

Void magic? (Way too booring solution, imho) 

Also why the !"#!"# were all Orokin in single spot? Decadent and corrupt does not mean stupid. 

 

Hmm. Come to think of it... Have the orokin themselves done anything in the lore? Executioners, Dax and Archimedians are seen in action, but I can't recall any 'orokin' doing anything. Maybe it's nothing, but just struck me. 

[Chewarette]

Dax can't kill Orokins, they have to obey to them, we can clearly see that with Teshin in The War Within. We can guess the Kuva has some mental control capabilities  for their own soldiers or whatever.

I think they were all in a single spot because they were celebrating victory, the end of the war. That's not stupid.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Chewarette

[ChaoticEdge]

No not all the orokin did died even Ballas is still alive which means of millions of possible they are alive, simple terms and simple answer which I conclude this long ago about the orokin are they really dead which I discover easy with a snap that orokin are just like roman empire for easy example repeat of history

• seize people
• control people
• make the people believed there is hope for the empire
• use soldiers to show how great and mighty they are
• power hungry then start killing each others for money or some stupid promotion
• more senseless killing
• lost control of military
• people in panic
• scattered all over the flipping globe/universe
• place in hiding

pretty much that how it happen to the roman empire just like it happen to the orokin which they flee into the void and they are in cyro status mode which they are alive but in frozen which you can go into the void, check defs mission and your probably scratching your head why there is cyro pod that look like ours just end up there which there is people in those pods which obviously they are still sleeping and had no clue what the heck is going on, as once you extracted out the mission pretty much you took those orokin people out and good gosh who know what did the lotus do to them which ask to deffer did she kill them or either she shelter them which we will not know.

At the time being there is lore that cover that orokin did manage escape the crazy event and end up being in grineer's fraction, corpus fraction or they lived somewhat peacefully or just join in one the syndicates that who good gosh we don't know about much because they ditch being orokin and didn't tell their next generation that they are part orokin or not.

Pretty much the system of you so far call orokin are still human being which their existence is everywhere, if you wanted the true modified orokin being that would be first one is Ballas which there is tons of orokin who has so much money, power and lots free time in their hands pretty much they mess around how they look like, so they gone blue which stand for higher status to presumed as in....I won't be surprised if the "Jade of Light" are bunch of green yoda people...Anyway pretty much assuming that we don't know how much the orokin higher up did to attend to mess around so pretty much they boasted they can't be killed because thanks to the kuva if they are not killed by the tenno so pretty much they would survived much longer in hiding.

[Olphalarepth]

12 minutes ago, Pinegulf said:

Hello, 

So why were the Tenno able to massacre the orokin?

Ordis Karris was unable to kill them

 

Yet, the Tenno were: 

 

 

Void magic? (Way too booring solution, imho) 

Also why the !"#!"# were all Orokin in single spot? Decadent and corrupt does not mean stupid. 

 

Hmm. Come to think of it... Have the orokin themselves done anything in the lore? Executioners, Dax and Archimedians are seen in action, but I can't recall any 'orokin' doing anything. Maybe it's nothing, but just struck me. 

Because orokin used kuva to perform the "reincarnation" and they did so with a living host. We know they could do it replacing their soul in the new host while being alive (pretty much like what a certain character wanted to do with.....play war within) but in case of death the service would had to be executed by someone else. When all the orokins where murdered at once there was nobody left to use kuva and bring them back.

One could even assume a dedicated and specifically trained orokin was necessary to revive a dead one in case it didn't had the chance to perform the soul transplant while being alive. As a last note we know very little of what actually happened when we killed all the orokins even though some theories are starting to emerge now that the story is slowly progressing revealing more connections and hidden motives of some characters.

[Ouinpis]

DEvide & impera they think

& for kid thaat want a lore go watch a f movie

Edited June 18, 2019 by Ouinpis

[Kaotyke]

The Tenno ate their soul.

Some escaped, like Ballas.

[Orcot]

The Orokin as a society died by the Tenno, the people are confirmed by Simaris Lore and the major story quest that they are alive as they are simply humans.

 

Corpus were a subculture derived from the Orokin that existed before the Collapse and it's hinted that there are other subcultures that survived the Collapse as well, they didn't all live in one spot to get slaughtered.  Tenno "killed" them by destroying their entire Executive government in one attack, Stalker Lore explains that when the war was won almost everyone that was important (Emperor, his Vassals, Retainers and other Executives) were all gathered for a big display and killed before anyone realized what was happening.  The Collapse that followed these events was made of a combination of disasters, the Grineer Rebellion started, the Infestation had just taken root in major cities and with no remaining upper government to maintain control everything else fell apart.

 

So far from what's known the Collapse wasn't a slow process and it's not explained very well as the following Dark Age hasn't been explored much in the story.

[Loza03]

6 hours ago, Pinegulf said:

Hello, 

So why were the Tenno able to massacre the orokin?

Ordis Karris was unable to kill them

 

Yet, the Tenno were: 

 

 

Void magic? (Way too booring solution, imho) 

Also why the !"#!"# were all Orokin in single spot? Decadent and corrupt does not mean stupid. 

 

Hmm. Come to think of it... Have the orokin themselves done anything in the lore? Executioners, Dax and Archimedians are seen in action, but I can't recall any 'orokin' doing anything. Maybe it's nothing, but just struck me. 

As to question one, most likely, yes, a bit of Void Magic. It's also likely that their Continuity protocols were destroyed. Ordan Karris only killed their bodies - several Warframes have the capacity to manipulate souls, and it's implied in the Conclave that all can do something with 'Oro', specifically destroying it. Or maybe we went the Fullmetal Alchemist homunculus approach, and just kept on killing potential replacement bodies until there was nothing left.

 

As for why all the Orokin were there? They weren't, just the ones in charge. They thought they'd won the war, and it was this big old ceremony to celebrate, so most of the leaders were there. Other less important roles weren't (confirmed in a Synthesis imprint, where a handful of survivors actually meet up after the fact and one references meeting others), but remember: the seven are functionally immortal, or were before the Tenno. There wouldn't have been the typical setups to replace lost leaders - they even locked much of their tech to genes. So we destroyed the leadership and the whole empire collapsed because big chunks of the infrastructure became unusable and the chain broke.

According to the Arid Eviscerator, Ballas wasn't the only Executor to survive - at least one other, Avantus, did too (possibly having an emergency body tucked away), but she got killed by the Grineer, and she showed fear of death before this, so it's likely this is permanent without the infrastructure to enact continuity. It's implied that a couple others may have as well (we know Ballas did) since they were planning to re-establish the congress of Executors - the Honoured Seven. The Guardsman imprint references an 'Executorial class ship', although it's explicitly called out the Executor it belonged to is not aboard, likely dead, especially as the other Orokin specifically calls out that they're all dead or missing. Even if any others did survive and were trying to reconvene, given that we know about Ballas's involvement in the collapse, it probably would have not ended well for them. We can account for three - Ballas himself, Avantus and whichever one the other ship belonged to, leaving only four unaccounted for. Most of them probably really did die to the Tenno attack, which means that the rest would probably have been easy pickings for Ballas to off himself - or maybe he even had Umbra kill them to further cover his tracks (and further torture Umbra, being the tool of the Betrayal he tried to stop.)

[nslay]

On Lua rescue and on some other Lua missions (but especially rescue), there's a room full of ghostly figures  sitting in chairs and moving around. In music test, these figures can also be seen laying down on reclined chairs. Also, the white tree branches that pulse with energy whisper "help me" repeatedly. So no? I figure their brains have been backed up to a neural sentry or similar system. Just my guess though!

Edited June 18, 2019 by nslay
phone autocorrect was not correct

[-Krism-]

I like how nobody agrees on why they were killed but can't reincarnate anymore, I don't have an answer either tho, maybe something to do with the Duviri dudes

[GrayArchon]

10 hours ago, Pinegulf said:

So why were the Tenno able to massacre the orokin?

Ordis Karris was unable to kill them

Ordan Karris was a mercenary without special abilities besides his skills, training, and equipment (as far as we know). If you read far enough into Teshin's talk during Conclave, he implies that the Tenno are able to absorb the Orokin's life force (called oro) whereas most others would not be able. This results in a permanent death of the soul of the Orokin individual. Jury's out on how accurate this really is to the lore.

Also, it's probably a healthy dose of this:

10 hours ago, Olphalarepth said:

When all the orokins where murdered at once there was nobody left to use kuva and bring them back.

We know that not all Orokin were wiped out at the Terminus. Executor Avantus, one of the most powerful of the Orokin, doesn't seem to have been present, and was later killed by Grineer. The Twin Queens of the Grineer were Orokin who managed to escape and take control of the Grineer and become their leaders. And, of course, you have Ballas.

10 hours ago, Pinegulf said:

Also why the !"#!"# were all Orokin in single spot? Decadent and corrupt does not mean stupid.

The Old War was over. All their enemies were dead (so they thought). People love to celebrate. Again, it doesn't seem like Executor Avantus was there. Perhaps she was the Designated Survivor.

10 hours ago, Pinegulf said:

Have the orokin themselves done anything in the lore? Executioners, Dax and Archimedians are seen in action, but I can't recall any 'orokin' doing anything.

The Executioners are Kela de Thaym's combatants in the Rathuum pits. If you are referring to Executors, then they in fact are Orokin. The Executors were the leaders of the Orokin. Ballas is the most well-known Executor, and he was responsible for many of the facets of the Origin System as we know it: the creation of the Sentients, the creation of the warframes, the fusion of the Zariman survivors with the warframes to create the Tenno, the creation of Excalibur Umbra specifically, and ultimately, the destruction of the Orokin Empire through his betrayal and desire for revenge. In much more recent history, he erased Natah's "Lotus" reprogramming, as seen in the Apostasy Prologue, which allowed her to return to Tau and be with her Sentient family, which will likely have massive effects on the universe as the Sentients prepare to invade later this year.

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

So Orokin death falls into a weird grey area. We know they can die as Margulas was sentenced to death Via the jade light. (which we don't know much about)

The Orokin dyeing seams to be a sort of anomaly as during the war within we learn that a soul can be transphered from one host body to the next threw a process known as conunity thus keeping a person alive indifferently. We hear Ballas talk about how his perfect death was stolen from him in the Chimera prolog so it can be assumed that the orokin can die. A bit of lore sprinkled here and there indicates that both corpus and grineer are diet forms of orokin (with many corpus claiming they themselves are pure descendants of the orokin). Though we do not know the natural lifespan of the orokin should this be the case we did recently get a few images of a new faction in a dev stream a while back that appears orokin in design that may be what's left of the orokin (if not inspired by them lore wise).

 

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

The Tenno slaughtered the high lords and Executors. The lower class populace either died in the war or ran off and are hiding in certain places. A common theory is that the Planes of Duviri are the remnants of the Orokin empire. They probably chill out somewhere in deep space while watching the origin system. 

Whenever the time comes to meet them, I hope for once they will be nice Orokin. 

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

14 hours ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

I like how nobody agrees on why they were killed but can't reincarnate anymore, I don't have an answer either tho, maybe something to do with the Duviri dudes

Literally everyone has agreed on why they can't. They cant reincarnate because nobody was left to perform the ceremony.

[Lakais]

There is also a distinction to be made about who and what is "Orokin". The empire was VERY caste-based, think India but an order of magnitude more severe. Personally, I hold that Orokin at the same time denotes the Empire, the citizens of the Empire to those outside the Empire, and a highest tier caste within the citizenship to those on the inside. 

So basically, to those on the outside or basically subjugated by the empire, everyone who voluntarily lived under it's rule were Orokin. But on the inside, we had Dax, Archimedians, Executors, Sectarus, Enginus and who knows how many other different castes/professions. Of those castes, Orokin was the highest tier, the main authority class. This is entirely speculative, of course, because we don't have enough information about the specifics of Orokin society's internal structure, just the very broad surface details.

This leads to that when the Tenno "killed the Orokin", I believe they killed the top echelon, cutting off the head, so to speak. The important people to whose caste-based genetics were locked the important bits of infrastructure like Solar rails that were needed to maintain the Empire. Including the knowledge and access to Continuity tech. But because to those on the outside, anyone born under Orokin rule is Orokin. This includes those descended from these original "orokin". Hunhow calls Alad V orokin because Hunhow is from the outside. And to it, Alad is descended from people who lived under Orokin rule, thus Alad is orokin.  

So this depends on what you mean by "Orokin". If you mean the empire, then yes. The Roman Empire parallel made before is very fitting here. If you mean by people, then the higher controlling caste was cut down to such an extent that the Empire could not function, Ballas, Bilsa and a few more survived the original purge, though some died later to other causes. If by orokin you mean every human born under the Empire or descended from those, then No. If that'd be the case, we'd only have Grineer and Infested. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Lakais

[(XBOX)Nich5201]

I believe the orokin are not truly dead they are alive but only in a soul like way they have no body to return to. If someone probably drinks the kuva and a orokin soul is nearby. I think they would be able to take control of that body. This is justmy thoughts because I would love if they come back. I got more Ideas for how they could return.

[schilds]

Speaking of reincarnation ...

[Mieo_Mio]

The Entrati family on Deimos is also still present and very much active. Though biologically cursed and likely prisoners for eternity. (given the infested regenerative nature.) Kuva I don't think would work for them. Was this discussed? Well, anyway. Not all Orokin died... certainly.

[schilds]

14 minutes ago, Mieo_Mio said:

The Entrati family on Deimos [...] Was this discussed?

Given Deimos was released in 2020, I very much doubt it was discussed in 2019 :-P.