(PC) Gauss / Signature Weapons Feedback

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

15 minutes ago, YatogamiOdin said:

How so? I personally favor the Agile animation because the Noble one is just too jumpy for me. Having Gauss take a "running man" pose as his idle seems perfectly in-theme.

I mostly meant the noble one, because it is too jumpy and also janky. Gauss being a little bouncy and impatient is perfectly good, but he hops like a guy walking on hot coals, and it's a very short loop with an obvious loop point. Agile one is okay.

[PistilWhip]

1 minute ago, (NSW)ToadBlue said:

I mostly meant the noble one, because it is too jumpy and also janky. Gauss being a little bouncy and impatient is perfectly good, but he hops like a guy walking on hot coals, and it's a very short loop with an obvious loop point. Agile one is okay.

I definitely agree with you there. Now that I think about it, it almost seems like Agile and Noble are switched, considering how the Agile sets tend to be more bestial, and the Noble sets more refined. For Gauss, the calm, collected one is Agile and the bouncy, impatient one is Noble.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

THEY'RE TWEAKING GAUSS GUYS

WE WON!!!

[PsiWarp]

Very nice tweaks. Now his battery is quite sustainable, even with Kinetic Plating and Redline both active, you can keep sprinting to increase charge. Battery charge on Mach Rush hits and Kinetic Plating melee hits are icing on the cake.

Does Mach Rush + Thermal Sunder cause an elemental proc on hit/shockwave explosion? 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

2 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

Very nice tweaks. Now his battery is quite sustainable, even with Kinetic Plating and Redline both active, you can keep sprinting to increase charge. Battery charge on Mach Rush hits and Kinetic Plating melee hits are icing on the cake.

Does Mach Rush + Thermal Sunder cause an elemental proc on hit/shockwave explosion? 

When will it hit consoles though

[Sace]

Thanks alot for the tweaks, Gauss plays very good now. Still have to stay mobile but it is less hectic and you can make more use of redline. The only thing that I would like to see tweaked a bit more is Mach Rush. I still think it should gain speed with prolonged use so that Gauss becomes faster the longer he is able to sustain Mach Rush. This would help alot in Open World while having no negative impact on navigating smaller spaces. Other than that DE did a great job!

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

6 minutes ago, Sace said:

Thanks alot for the tweaks, Gauss plays very good now. Still have to stay mobile but it is less hectic and you can make more use of redline. The only thing that I would like to see tweaked a bit more is Mach Rush. I still think it should gain speed with prolonged use so that Gauss becomes faster the longer he is able to sustain Mach Rush. This would help alot in Open World while having no negative impact on navigating smaller spaces. Other than that DE did a great job!

I hope sustaining redline is not too easy

I love the challenge of this ability because it makes me feel like i'm in a race 

Also gauss' theme relies on always keeping momentum and always moving...i hope that feeling isn't nerfed by the new buffs

[PistilWhip]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

I hope sustaining redline is not too easy

I love the challenge of this ability because it makes me feel like i'm in a race 

Also gauss' theme relies on always keeping momentum and always moving...i hope that feeling isn't nerfed by the new buffs

I would say Redline is in a good place now. Before, it felt like an "oh crap" button for when I needed the fire rate, plus the extra damage reduction from Kinetic Plating; it's not something I actively tried to use because there was a risk of the battery bottoming out at an inopportune moment. Now it's something that I'm comfortable using whenever I need to stay still (as in, not Mach Rush) for more than a couple seconds.

Edited October 2, 2019 by YatogamiOdin

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

3 minutes ago, YatogamiOdin said:

I would say Redline is in a good place now. Before, it felt like an "oh crap" button for when I needed the fire rate, plus the extra damage reduction from Kinetic Plating; it's not something I actively tried to use because there was a risk of the battery bottoming out at an inopportune moment. Now it's something that I'm comfortable using whenever I need to stay still (as in, not Mach Rush) for more than a couple seconds.

So you still frequently use mach rush

But you don't spam it for no reason?

I can live with that

All i want for the mobility reliant warframe to be mobility reliant 

I don't want him like zephyr where she's highly mobile but you barely need that mobility in most cases

Edited October 2, 2019 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk

[PistilWhip]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

So you still frequently use mach rush

But you don't spam it for no reason?

I can live with that

All i want for the mobility reliant warframe to be mobility reliant 

I don't want him like zephyr where she's highly mobile but you barely need that mobility in most cases

In a typical mission, I will use Mach Rush when I need to get from point A to point B without frequent stops. For something like an Exterminate mission, Mach Rush will be used more sporadically as I pause to clear enemy clusters. For something like Mobile Defense, I can go all the way from one terminal to the next, Mach Rushing as terrain allows. When I do have to stop at a terminal, that's a decent time to Redline and Mach Rush/Thermal Sunder as needed to top up the battery.

Gauss really shines in Rescue and Sabotage missions, because barring doors that need multiple players to open (assuming you're not solo), you can be done with the objective before your squadmates even reach the halfway point. I had a particularly entertaining case of this where the starting point was ~2km away from the objective (a Sabotage reactor) for some reason. I destroyed the reactor and waited at the extraction zone for a solid minute or two. I love Gauss.

[GreyEnneract]

On 2019-09-02 at 1:15 AM, GreyEnneract said:

Just for ease of understanding, I think Wisp/Saryn/Mesa/Wukong/Gara/Oberon/Nova, etc. are all great frames more or less.
Meaning my balance philosophy is to have all frames be around their level of viability in their own unique ways.
I'll also be saying "you guys" to just refer to DE as a whole, and to not target specific devs.

0. The first issue is with his passive.
Since you guys gave up on shield gating instead of trying to make it work as hard as possible this passive is useless, even with DR (damage reduction).
It's not even the fault of the passive itself, shields are just terrible. Even the shield focused tank Hildryn isn't taken to Arbitration en masse where tanks shine.
I would suggest this just giving more movement speed based on the battery level.
Or just giving him universal DR while moving/% chance to force dodge a damage instance.*

1. Next up is his 1st ability.
As for the Kinetic Plating synergy, it just feels like you guys threw another slash proc on something, whether it makes sense or not, just to have an ounce of scaling.
So as a side note, please god just finally give impact and puncture procs scaling that's on par with slash. This meta was already stale even 3 years ago.
Giving melee mod scaling to this ability would be all it needs to scale if that's truly the goal here.

2. Time for the 2nd ability.
Kinetic Plating outright needs to not drain any battery if I'm not being hit. It's frustratingly asinine.
Gauss already has to spend his energy for a fluctuating DR buff that doesn't even block all damage types.
Whereas other frames have consistent DR buffs that block all types of damage.
Being able to reach 100% DR doesn't balance it out when it's not all damage types (many toxin based enemies exist) and when high fire rate enemies constantly have you at half battery at "high levels" (now 80)*. There would need to be a buffer window between getting hit and the battery draining.
The only way you can even stay at 100% DR is when using Redline, however then you have Kinetic Plating and Redline both draining your battery at the same time, even whilst taking no damage.
This has been greatly alleviated due to being able to hit 100% becoming easier, however the point still stands as high level enemies tear him apart.*

Then there's the energy restore conversion rate. It's much too low, especially when it's applying to the damage dealt after calculating the DR. Even if that's a bug, 5% is too little.
Having to recast Thermal Sunder and Mach Rush many times, on top of energy drain effects being more prominent in the game than ever before makes the conversion % very important.
If the energy conversion were increased to at least around the Rage mod's level, this would counteract all of the energy issues brought up.*

3. Thermal Sunder.
This ability has quite a few issues, but it's also the easiest to make better in a way.
The base range is too low, but this goes for many Warframe abilities, so it's nothing new.
Having the AoE shrink, and not having the lingering heat/cold/blast field proc heat/cold/blast per second makes this ability unworthy of its energy cost.
Only proc'ing heat/cold/blast on the initial hit is quite mediocre, even more so with the base range that it has.
It's already a bit awkward to use this on a frame that's supposed to be constantly moving.

I would suggest removing the capability to re-cast cold onto itself for the freeze and heat onto itself for more damage, while keeping the capability to combine them into blast.
That way you can balance it with a non-shrinking AoE field and even proc'ing heat/cold/blast all at the same time per second to all enemies within when combining heat and cold.
Then while using Redline, the secondary effects Thermal Sunder used to have in this scenario on the base ability would still be available just like they are now.
Such as only needing one cast to freeze and so on while Redlining.

The combo damage on this is actually good now, however it's still not worth the energy cost while all the other issues are still here, and it's still a bit odd to have an ability like this on such a mobile frame.*

-On a side-note, heat procs still don't scale (the true reason Ember is still bad, not entirely her kit).
Thermal Sunder's heat variant also drains from your battery, which you need maxed at all times in areas with real enemies for Kinetic Plating's DR.
Thus, I don't think this will ever really be used. Mach Rush already has AoE CC and even scales over Thermal Sunder due to the weird slash proc addition with the synergy.

4. Finally there's Gauss' ultimate, Redline.
The obvious thing to say here would be, why doesn't this also give more movement speed? I personally would also add a flight-speed buff onto this ability as well.
It would really help up flight-speed weapon's viability, and it would even go along perfectly with his signature weapons.
I think the idea of using duration to scale his percentages is great personally.
Good work making this much better, Gauss finally allows you to play the game.*

The issues deleted here have been fixed for the most part, as the battery mechanics have been vastly improved.*
Lastly, the Redline animation takes way too long. Never would have thought the "speed frame" would ever have a slow cast time.

Offering insight as to why the way things are calculated and scale matter to veterans, and why some things are meta for a reason while others aren't are also sprinkled in here.
The wild and cool ideas are for the other posts in this thread to come up with.
Thanks for reading.

The recent buffs really did help Gauss out and finally made him playable, ignoring the fact that it took over a month.
I'm quoting my old post to show the still relevant issues, and to also show how much I deleted due to the great improvements you guys have made to him.
There are also additional notes for the current patch. Truly a huge step forward, nice job DE.
 

[GreyEnneract]

Also just as a heads up, still can't use Fulmination/Firestorm on the Akarius/Acceltra (Or Hildryn's Balefire still *cough*).
Seems like quite the oversight.

[Raqiya]

7 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Considering the fact that Gauss buffed by Volt and Wisp is literally impossible to steer, giving Mach rush even more speed may not be the best of ideas. Also Redline gives a small boost of speed to Mach rush already.

Im pretty sure it doesn't, I haven't read that anywhere or noticed it when playing. Also, let's not forget that he's the "Speed" frame. 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 hour ago, YatogamiOdin said:

In a typical mission, I will use Mach Rush when I need to get from point A to point B without frequent stops. For something like an Exterminate mission, Mach Rush will be used more sporadically as I pause to clear enemy clusters. For something like Mobile Defense, I can go all the way from one terminal to the next, Mach Rushing as terrain allows. When I do have to stop at a terminal, that's a decent time to Redline and Mach Rush/Thermal Sunder as needed to top up the battery.

Gauss really shines in Rescue and Sabotage missions, because barring doors that need multiple players to open (assuming you're not solo), you can be done with the objective before your squadmates even reach the halfway point. I had a particularly entertaining case of this where the starting point was ~2km away from the objective (a Sabotage reactor) for some reason. I destroyed the reactor and waited at the extraction zone for a solid minute or two. I love Gauss.

I'm not talking about these situations 

I'm talking about offensive engagement 

The current gauss in console has to constantly move to keep his abilities at full potential 

Kinetic plating and redline, even the heat version of thermal sunder all help wanting him to move

I loved that playstyle

I don't want it to be a speed volt situation where you have speed but you don't use it most of the time

TlDr i want mobility to still be part of his offensive gameplay, not just part of his kit that can or cannot be used

I want to be obligated to use it

I guess i have to wait for the changes to hit consoles and see for myself 

[PistilWhip]

What I described is just the way I use him. If you use the heat version of Thermal Sunder together with Redline and Kinetic Plating, that's enough battery drain to incentivize constant motion. The latest changes just make it easier to keep your battery high even with those drains. It's entirely possible to run him as a pure caster frame if you want to, with minimal reliance on weapons.

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

1 hour ago, YatogamiOdin said:

What I described is just the way I use him. If you use the heat version of Thermal Sunder together with Redline and Kinetic Plating, that's enough battery drain to incentivize constant motion. The latest changes just make it easier to keep your battery high even with those drains. It's entirely possible to run him as a pure caster frame if you want to, with minimal reliance on weapons.

The problem with that then would be he eats energy like air. I would have taken having NO bonus melee damage on Kinetic Plating whatsoever, if it meant making it cheaper and/or restore more energy on hit. I get irritated when my battery is full but my energy is empty so I can't use all that charge. Probably my only remaining mechanical complaint from the looks of the update, but I think it's fair to say Gauss has been given enough for now, so I'm not going to complain much about it. And they did tone down his energy consumption on his Mach Rush, so maybe that balances things out, I'll have to play him for myself and see. So far I've ran him with Streamline and Flow just to keep a sufficient stock of energy for Mach Rush and Thermal Sunder as often as possible.

Edited October 2, 2019 by (NSW)ToadBlue

[PistilWhip]

If Streamline isn't cutting it for you, you might have to swap in or add Fleeting Expertise. Energy restore consumables are also an option, and Energizing Dash from Zenurik is very helpful. Gauss has a built-in energy generator in his Kinetic Plating, too. I don't use energy restores, but Fleeting Expertise + Energizing Dash by themselves can keep my energy topped up.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

6 hours ago, Raqiya said:

Im pretty sure it doesn't, I haven't read that anywhere or noticed it when playing. Also, let's not forget that he's the "Speed" frame. 

He’s already faster than every other frame in the game. Trying to compare him to a teleporting jet pack is just kinda dumb.

[alseltas]

The latest changes fixed almost his issues.

I love improved battery efficiency because I can play him as I would like to without spamming his 1 or 3. With other unique improvements, he is a perfect except one thing.

The remaining issue is that he is still vulnerable to some element attacks so some enemies. Examples of those enemies include Toxic Ancient, Zealot,  Mutalist Osprey, which are all infested, and even other nations use such element that go through his 2 without any damage reduction. As a result he often die suddenly in high level missions, which is a bit distress as I like his play style.

I understand applying damage reduction to all element attacks without any other changes will make him stupidly invincible, so I suggest to make 95% cap for the damage reduction to avoid that.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

12 hours ago, YatogamiOdin said:

I definitely agree with you there. Now that I think about it, it almost seems like Agile and Noble are switched, considering how the Agile sets tend to be more bestial, and the Noble sets more refined. For Gauss, the calm, collected one is Agile and the bouncy, impatient one is Noble.

Noble is always a more standing pose while agile is always an action pose. It has nothing to do with “bestial” or “refined”.

[Hyohakusha]

Using him feels like playing Armored Core in Warframe, it's awesome. His 4 even sounds a bit like a pitch shifted overboost start-up. I don't get the hate that he's been getting, beyond the usual stuff, like people who don't even have him jumping on the bandwagon, or people not bothering to actually read how his abilities work, or just flat out building him wrong. If someone isn't used to moving that fast, that's on them.

With 297% duration/ 130% efficiency/ 40% range/ 100% strength and Vigorous Swap he's capable of outputting an insane amount of damage in seconds. And I mean like TWO seconds. Dump the mag of any gun and instantly reload it; enjoy having a 100% base damage boost with any melee weapon that also auto-staggers on any hit. Then his 2 renders him immune to physical damage and knockdowns, which is what the vast majority of enemies in the game do, outside of infested fart clouds and puke puddles. On top of that, enemies can barely get a bead on him when you're moving properly, and when they do, you just get energy back and take little to no damage anyway.

He can DPS an Eidolon with his signature gun, he can tank the entirety of the starchart and he can run on water to flex on people Jesus style. Definitely a new favorite frame for me.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

16 minutes ago, Hyohakusha said:

He can DPS an Eidolon with his signature gun, he can tank the entirety of the starchart and he can run on water to flex on people Jesus style. Definitely a new favorite frame for me.

Yeah, I don’t understand why so many people are sleeping on him. They’re severely under appreciating the value of having an insanely high fire rate and melee attack speed.

[Mu_Gera]

So the redline and battery improvements are great and can finally allow one to enjoy them. Unfortunately mach rush still doesn't damage enemies on direct collisions innately. That got smooshed into a forced synergy with thermal sunder.

[SteveCutler]

I honestly just don't understand why people have been complaining about Gauss. He was perfectly fine to start with. With the new changes, he now feels mindless to play, as the battery system is just a completely dead mechanic now. What's the point of even having a battery gauge if you don't have to do anything to build it up? It's literally infinite half the time due to Redline, and the other half of the time it stays full by just moving along at a leisurely pace. My battery is 100% all the time without even doing anything now, whereas before I at least had to keep in the "always keep moving" mindset. I have to actually force myself to just stand around and idle if I want to even see the battery deplete at all.

Being able to jump during Mach Rush is nice though. I wish we could double jump as well though. Is there any particular reason why we can't?

[Raqiya]

7 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

He’s already faster than every other frame in the game. Trying to compare him to a teleporting jet pack is just kinda dumb.

Titania is faster than him but besides that all other frames have a a way to to substantially improve their speed buff except for Gauss who's is supposed to be the frame all about speed. I just personally think it'll be fun to be able to move at ludicrous speeds and I believe many people would also like to judging by the reception of the ally speed buff Youtube videos. I just don't really see the harm of allowing it to scale with strength, they could simply add a cap to the dash version for gameplay reasons and leave the held version uncapped.