Heat procs shouldn't reduce armor

[DeMonkey]

55 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

realistically let's say heat will reduce 25 base armor and corrosive reduces 25% of current armor

Can we have a source on this being a "realistic" value that DE decide on.

I mean, we can all make up numbers and then bemoan how overpowered those numbers are. Seriously, what if Heat removed 100% of armour? Le gasp.

[000l000]

Le 08/10/2019 à 19:26, Uhkretor a dit :

It was also pointed out that, up until now, only Ember's upcoming rework will be doing the armor stripping, mentioned by [DE] on a devstream. Extending THAT to regular Heat procs is nothing more than speculation.

Fire Procs

With Ember’s rework above, we are making changes to heat proc to be in line with other status procs in that further procs will stack damage over time. Additionally, it will literally melt armor while active, in addition to the existing damage over time and panic effects,

https://www.warframe.com/news/devstream-131

Edited October 10, 2019 by 000l000

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

5 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Fire Procs

With Ember’s rework above, we are making changes to heat proc to be in line with other status procs in that further procs will stack damage over time. Additionally, it will literally melt armor while active, in addition to the existing damage over time and panic effects,

https://www.warframe.com/news/devstream-131

So basically they took my idea, took your idea and took everyone else's ideas and shove it to heat 

Nice 

That's not broken at all...not at all 

Am i upset? Hell no more power to us what's not to like

But i can't wait till the day they nerf it to the ground after this one

[Uhkretor]

4 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Fire Procs

With Ember’s rework above, we are making changes to heat proc to be in line with other status procs in that further procs will stack damage over time. Additionally, it will literally melt armor while active, in addition to the existing damage over time and panic effects,

https://www.warframe.com/news/devstream-131

... Guess my recent build experiment's here to stay after all...

... goodbye, speculation. Hello, fact.

[Terrahero]

I'm worried the effect these new Heat procs have on the player. Heat proc is one of the most common status that affects the player, Corrosive procs are pretty rare so we don't really commonly see what happens to game balance when Warframes lose their armor. Some Warframes, such as Valkyr, need their armor. If one of these super common Heat procs melts away that armor, damage taken for a Valkyr jumps up by about 1500 - 2000%.

[Aldain]

1 hour ago, Terrahero said:

I'm worried the effect these new Heat procs have on the player. Heat proc is one of the most common status that affects the player, Corrosive procs are pretty rare so we don't really commonly see what happens to game balance when Warframes lose their armor. Some Warframes, such as Valkyr, need their armor. If one of these super common Heat procs melts away that armor, damage taken for a Valkyr jumps up by about 1500 - 2000%.

It will likely be a different proc for us than for the enemies, I mean corrosive reduces the armor permanently on enemies but only for a duration on us for example.

[Phoenix86]

Slash + Viral + Heat will be fun 🙂

[Shinigami_Greed]

So uh... I just had a thought. 

Doesn't this mean fire is even more the bane of our existence now?  Nothing did corrosive damage before, really, but now frames like Valkyr, Inaros, and Nidus who rely on high armor ratings (Maybe Hildryn, we don't know how this would affect her armored shields).  Not to mention how when most other frames get looked at funny by a Scorch or Napalm of decent level, they tend to melt.  Fire/Heat is one of the more common enemy damage types, after all.

 

[tzadquiel]

guys, guys, I have thought about it:

fire should have stripping abilities only when you reapply it to the object. i.e. one shot deals damage, second deals damage, but the yellow bar starts to melt slowly - you apply more heat, and the melt progress bar picks up the pace until the end of duration of the proc. 

and keep the cc element pls 

[_Pt_]

A have no problem with Ember having Armor stripping, as she has absolute control over Fire, she could toy with the molecular structure of metal by tempering or something like that. However I really don’t think Heat damage in general should strip armor.

A really like the idea of “cooking” enemies inside their armors. With this in mind, Heat Damage should have a damage multiplier based on enemy armor, making it effective against armor.  As a multiplier based in the enemy armor it will normalize heat damage making it effective regardless of the enemy armor, without making other types of damages better against it, for this  role we have Corrosive.

Armor strip with Heat only make possible to double dip Armor stripping, making corrosive builds better and not really giving more options to fight Armor.

Other problem is the fact of Heat already have CC and Dot, Armor Stripping will make it objectively better than corrosive.

If DE still needs other element to strip Armor to give us more options (which I really don’t like, as it makes all damage types less unique). Give armor stripping to Cold damage, making possible builds with Gas and Radiation.

[MPonder]

Single elements should not have better status proc than composite. 

Heat will be overloaded. Dmg to some health types, DoT per second (also stacking), CC and after the update, removing armor.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 hour ago, MPonder said:

Single elements should not have better status proc than composite. 

Heat will be overloaded. Dmg to some health types, DoT per second (also stacking), CC and after the update, removing armor.

this is what i mean

i don't understand why so many people don't see it like this

maybe the NPC theory is true 

[Pulsar_Prime]

Heat should reduce armour, it makes sense. Heat melts things and in this case armour. I've seen other people's comments about why it's "a bad idea" but I think its a good change. It also gives weapons that just do heat damage a chance and would make them a bit more popular (not including the ignis that's already powerful). It would encourage diversity which is exactly what DE are trying to do. So many people have complained about things that DE are doing since the last devstream but they are only doing this to help us as with everything they do. I'm sure they have done enough testing to see that it wont make too much of a difference, its not like they just come up with ideas like this on the spot - they have tested all of these things before they confirm anything so just trust that this wont break the game or make anything overpowered, because if it did they wouldn't have got to the point of telling us on a devstream.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Pulsar_Prime

[Renginus]

From all elements is corosive just best and i they will balance it cuz it will strip armor per ticks - fire is a dot and its usseles in actual state

[SneakyErvin]

On 2019-10-17 at 7:37 AM, Shinigami_Greed said:

So uh... I just had a thought. 

Doesn't this mean fire is even more the bane of our existence now?  Nothing did corrosive damage before, really, but now frames like Valkyr, Inaros, and Nidus who rely on high armor ratings (Maybe Hildryn, we don't know how this would affect her armored shields).  Not to mention how when most other frames get looked at funny by a Scorch or Napalm of decent level, they tend to melt.  Fire/Heat is one of the more common enemy damage types, after all.

 

It wont effect the warframes, just like corrosive doesnt reduce out armor. So heat will be heat just as it was before with the addition of it being able to stack on the warframe.

[Autongnosis]

I personally think that is a great way to properly buff status weapons by allowing them to attack all sides of an enemy's EHP at once. 

It also kinda allows pure status weapons to compete with hybrid crit status ones, since the patter can't generally slot more than one elemenal combo while the former can very well run around with viral+heat. 

It could've been more imaginative but hey, we still got void procs being a copy of magnetise so I'm not holding my breath 😄

[punipunichen]

heat element should do general damage, but have it as a "built up/stacking damage":

It hits shield, armor, and then meat. no penetration, nor does it strip, but DOT, AND should grow in power the longer target is on fire, hence "lasting proc mods" is ideal in a heat built, why heat built? because the heat damage is a growing damage, but if you want to speed the DMG growth, just keep the flame on target! it will grow faster with each tick, it may not look like much, but with out "shake off', cure, or getting away from the damage source. the target will burn to death, regardless of shield armor, HP! make this damage type a built up damage type, AND make ember more effective on setting, and prolonging fire, like fireball will stack faster with weapon or weapons will stack/grow faster if target is hit with fireball first, make it, so that it's the most basic elemental damage type, but also, in the hands of the right built, it's got the potential to do maximum amount of damage per tick. (given, it will prabably need multiple skills stacking, and probably 30 seconds of massive stacking, but once the train gets going... it will roll people over.

20DMG per tick, after 3 ticks, damage stacks to 40, then 60, but if target is constantly getting hit, by tick 3 it'd be 80 already, now apply skill to double the damage growth/or grow by skill (accelerent; yes, get that back, because the new 2 should be always on, and depleting when no one is burning!)

[anonymous14z]

To be a bit brainless and tired OP
I spose your complaint is subconsciously a kind of complaint at the game getting too easy? And you -without you fully knowing it- don't want this trend of power-creep to continue, but you also are aware of how -under certain circumstances- people will be pro-power creep much like how they show here through their "votes".

Ehh, I kinda get where you're coming from OP, I'd rather have heat -along with the rest of the status procs- to not be as useless as they are, to at least buff them to gas procs (or void procs) levels of potency.

[(PSN)FK2P]

Why do you not want good things? People like this ruin the game. 

[XenMaster]

On 2019-10-06 at 3:47 PM, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

I know right? Heat can be such a potential damage type...we don't want another armor strip 

Should just Heat proc increase damage taken by any source of damage and make it stack?

 

Most fire skills from other games means can be like these

 

1. Long duration dmg overtime

 

2. Increase damage taken overtime

 

3. Defense removal (shield, armor, damage reduction)

 

4. CC based (knockback, stun, rolling on the floor)

 

5. Ridiculous Pure damage

 

6. The Phoenix minion or mode (op ultimate to deal damage without any reduction)

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

3 hours ago, anonymous14z said:

To be a bit brainless and tired OP
I spose your complaint is subconsciously a kind of complaint at the game getting too easy? And you -without you fully knowing it- don't want this trend of power-creep to continue, but you also are aware of how -under certain circumstances- people will be pro-power creep much like how they show here through their "votes".

Ehh, I kinda get where you're coming from OP, I'd rather have heat -along with the rest of the status procs- to not be as useless as they are, to at least buff them to gas procs (or void procs) levels of potency.

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)FK2P said:

Why do you not want good things? People like this ruin the game. 

Instead of attacking me why don't you ask yourself a question

Is heat stacking tick damage and reducing armor creative?...no

This is what DE wants for fire as the final design...to combine toxin and corrosive into fire 

That's not creative at all 

I don't like fire at it's current state either and i want it to change..but not like this

Fire procs should make enemies more vulnerable to fire damage ...since fire makes everything weaker...not just that it melts armor...fire also spreads so maybe let it spread to any enemy within a 3 meter radius 

I made many suggestions above like this and in the OP...but you'd rather not read it for lazy reasons

[anonymous14z]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

 

Instead of attacking me why don't you ask yourself a question

Is heat stacking tick damage and reducing armor creative?...no

This is what DE wants for fire as the final design...to combine toxin and corrosive into fire 

That's not creative at all 

I don't like fire at it's current state either and i want it to change..but not like this

Fire procs should make enemies more vulnerable to fire damage ...since fire makes everything weaker...not just that it melts armor...fire also spreads so maybe let it spread to any enemy within a 3 meter radius 

I made many suggestions above like this and in the OP...but you'd rather not read it for lazy reasons

To be chill/tired/spontaneous.

Yeah, I caught your drift with the first post with the proposed head proc being too much like corrosive, and I implicitly was aware of this -although I shoulda stressed it a bit more-, I wouldn't like it if heat was too much like corrosive, but i was also aware of how useless the other procs were; Magnetic is like viral for shields (with shields being pretty marginal to begin with), Impact merely staggers the enemy -sometimes not even staggering correctly-, Void puts a bullet attractor affect on the enemy, ETC.

Sorry if I offended -indeed it'll be you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone with this attitude- I thought the claim of being "tired" would be enough, but I know the insanity-inducing affect of the "voters" here on both you, and to the participants here (I really do hate most online voters and the "spell" they put everyone under).

Edited October 23, 2019 by anonymous14z
clarification, specified grievances to avoid offense.

[MPonder]

Why Ember sux (except for Eidolon Hunt as DPS and killing low levels), because she is squish and heat sux because armor exist, and even if you get bonus dmg on flesh part, armor will reduce the dmg to nothing either way if the enemy has High base armor and/or High level, that the health bonus is pointless. Some Warframe are good with like two Stats (power str, range, duration, efficiency), ember kind needs ALL of them (you can still do good builds though), survivability mods and maybe, augments.

Step 1 -> giving survivability to ember.

Step 2 -> Making more easy to build a balanced build without needing to max everything.

Step 3 -> Resolve Fire dmg problem (give the option to one of Ember's abilities/augments to reduce armor OR give that to the fire proc status)

- Giving the DR to fire proc means if they have to tune it down later -> RIP Ember Rework again (A little more tank that kill only squishies again with abilities)
- Give DR to Ember, make other changes to Fire status proc (better solution for me).

[(PSN)FK2P]

18 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

 

Instead of attacking me why don't you ask yourself a question

Is heat stacking tick damage and reducing armor creative?...no

This is what DE wants for fire as the final design...to combine toxin and corrosive into fire 

That's not creative at all 

I don't like fire at it's current state either and i want it to change..but not like this

Fire procs should make enemies more vulnerable to fire damage ...since fire makes everything weaker...not just that it melts armor...fire also spreads so maybe let it spread to any enemy within a 3 meter radius 

I made many suggestions above like this and in the OP...but you'd rather not read it for lazy reasons

I would prefer if armour changed to be honest. Embers rework is hung in the balance on wether she can armour strip. If they add something creative, it’s likely not going to proc on immune enemies, which means she might as well keep the panic proc that fire has now. She needs to not only kill, but be able to squash armour Down to zero and burn everything down if she has any hope of being a true DPS over time warframe. I definately think fire damage should destroy enemy weapons and melt their guns and perhaps even soften projectiles.

[Teridax68]

I agree with the OP, I don't see why we need another armor-stripping status effect when a) Corrosive status is a thing, and b) Ember herself is being given an armor shred. I think the desire to add that component to Heat is a bit misguided, as the real problem at hand is that enemy armor scales too hard into higher levels, forcing frames to resort to either armor shredding or Slash proc abuse to deal decent damage then. If enemy armor scaling were toned down, or eliminated outright (I personally don't see why enemy armor should scale when enemy health, which is multiplied by armor, also scales), we wouldn't need all of these workarounds to a metagame that would thus be allowed to shift.