(PC) Ember & Vauban Revisited Feedback

[DroopingPuppy]

After run my Ember finally after over than a year and a half of a year, I think that the update is good but it requires more.

Anyway, Ember is better than before, because before of it she is effectively removed from the game and is not meant to play, but for now she is at least playable. NaN and a numeric number have a serious gap, you know.

 

But I don't think that her mechanism is good now or able to run it properly. The problems are;

Fireball is still slow, or requires too much energy if you combine with Immolation. Also its radius is now affected by ability range so you need to invest both strength and range.

Immolation's protection effect is good, but its mechanism is flawed as I will describe later. Also it requires some ability strength to make the initial flames and max flames, so you need to raise abiltiy strength.

Fire Blast is still nothing more than a joke. It can't deal with the armor unless you have full heat. No one will ever think about to kill stuffs with it, do you?

Inferno is a capable skill but that's about it and it is nothing impressive, for it lacks much radius nor damage. Also because inflamed enemies are only struggle for the fire rather than flees, 'contact' with the another enemy is actually a fancy idea that cannot be happend in the real games.

 

The most problem is its flawed heat mechanism.

First, the heat raises too fast.

Also the gauge is not fixed by 0 to 100%, and it is 40 to 85 by default and it increased to 50 to 90 when you increase the ability strenghto so it is very nonintuitive.

Worse still, in order to calm down her you need to cast Fire Blast, but you need the energy to do so. And you are expected to use up most energy by Fireball, Inferno and upkeeping Immolation as well.

That's why her mechanism is flawed. Without some fix it can't be run in the real games.

I suggest to....

Fireball - either ideas;

--Reduce its basic charge speed dramatically.

--Cut off the charge mechanism and instead spit the same one with the current charged Fireball when you turned on Immolation and simply use it, making it free from the flawed reliance to charge.

---Need to charge normally but does not requires charge when Immolation is turned on is an another solution as well.

Also can it generates lesser heats?

Immolation - Heat meter is 0 to 100, it is not changed by the ability strength and its damage resistance would be shown as the buff on the right upper side of the display. Reduce energy spent overall or remove the energy spent unless her heat level is full.

Fire Blast - Remove energy spent and able to cast it by only spend heat meter, and allow it to strip the armor better.

Inferno - What about to generates extra burst(or stream) of fire from the victim during the duration, with the enemy without fire have the priority? In the reality they never flees and therefore they never contact with the others and set them ablaze, or anyone near to the target are also the target of the same Inferno so it is not meaningful to have 'contact and fire' mechanism.

Edited November 1, 2019 by DroopingPuppy

[Lazarow]

Vauban needs more base armor from 100 to 150 or 200 is good because if it isnt for adaptation and his bastille buff he is dead in seconds in higher level mission. Putting armor mods on him is not worth it as he doesnt benefit much from them. He has little armor yet he his bulky looking and more armor would fit him well

[Flying_Scorpion]

Ember's heat gauge refills VERY FAST sometimes. How fast? Sometimes I have to spam the third ability three times in a row to get it to cool off and slow down. I don't know why it fills so fast sometimes.

 

Sometimes I spam the 4th ability while the heat bar is already full, then I notice energy draining very fast. So I cast 3rd ability, bar refills almost immediately, cast 3rd ability again, heat bar rises fast, cast it again, bar starts slowing down.

 

It's like the heat bar gains momentum and you gotta slam the brakes again and again to slow it down. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Flying_Scorpion

[Raikh]

Thoughts on the Ember rework.

Overall a huge improvement in usability. She should see a lot more play, especially in higher level missions. BUT

She is WAY too energy hungry. Her 2 is very centralizing by being both your much needed defense and increasing the damage of your other abilities + enabling the complete armor strip of her 3 which is again important to make her 4 actually kill stuff because otherwise it just does nothing against armor.

The drain is way too much. The drain should not ramp up over time. I would even prefer a decay after x time of not casting abiltiies over this. Its well within the spirit of Grendel I guess just that she devours all your energy instead of just the enemies. The thing is how much of a double down it is. If you sit at the 90% cap you lose energy at an increasing rate and you don't gain energy by certain sources as all channels. Then you have to SPEND energy to stop her energy from draining too much but since her meter just goes immeidtely up again you have to keep spending energy to stop you from ...spending too much energy. Its paradox and feels very impractical.

The core issue here is that you get into a lose-lose situation where you either have to give up both damage and survivability or keep losing energy even when not in combat. Especially since her immolation also ramps quite a bit at the start you can't just flick it on and off in high level missions when traveling between combat spaces.

It feels like she is designed around using Energize and her 4 augment to maintian herself and given the build restrictions and rng nature + energize being rare/expensive it seems a rather harsh pre-requisite to really keep the frame going.

The damage of her 4 seems okay, I would like it do a bit more since I would compare it to Bladestorm and while it has easier and more functional targetting it still feels like its falling a bit short occasionally. Not talking major buffs here. It might be more itneresting icnrease the splash of individual meteors to really blow up stacked enemies and not just increase the base dmg a bit. Overall the ability looks pretty good though. Note on the augment. It is terribly rng and it doesn't seem to work on kills not directly being her 4, despite the augment stating the target has to die while being affected by her 4.

Her 3 seems to be blocked by LoS and sometimes weirdly moreso than her 4 which requires LoS by description. I would honestly want to see the LoS restriction removed entirely since this ability is pretty important to hit and you can barely ever make use of its range when every little pebble on the ground stops it form hitting enemies.

Her 1 keeps being a platform for her 1 augment and isn't really ever worth using. I can't even put much feedback to it the ability is jsut so irrelevant. If it had a sizeable AoE like 10-15 meters maybe it would be a decent tool but as this sort of single target gets beaten by weapon damage but costs energy ability its not worth using, especially with how energy demanding she currently is.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Raikh

[DeadMansChest]

Honestly, you can't give DR options to a player (through Immolate) and then penalize them that heavily for them wanting to keep it up. I have no idea how that thought didn't pass through the design phase.

What player using a DR capable frame doesn't have their DR abilty active 99%-100% of the time?

Edited November 1, 2019 by DeadMansChest

[m3stuart]

After playing Vauban/Ember in both normal Missions and Simulacrum i can tell you this.

Vauban

Spoiler

Tesla Nervos

Perfect first ability for a CC frame. (My only complain is that, hes Prime doesn't have "Primed Rollers")

Minelayer

Overall good ability, but with a few problems:

Low base duration and you can only have 4 of each mine, for a total of 16.

Increase it's duration from 25 seconds to 50 seconds, and allow a total of 16 mines (no restrictions), or just remove the cap. (Don't take away what was fun of Old Vauban, allow us to spam as many mines as our energy pool allows)

1. Tether Coil

For me this is a replacement for the old Tesla.

Allow it to tether 1 more enemy for each 100% Str.

2. Flechette Orb

I personally don't understand why people complain about this one. Legit good ability for hes Minelayer.

3.Vector Pad

The idea is great. But this is not a Speed Boost. At least, when i think about a speed boost, i expect something like Volt's Speed boost. Allow Vector Pad to do something like Volt's Speed Boost, just without the attack speed. (Keep the bounce effect).

4.Overdriver

Another decent part of hes Minelayer kit

Photon Strike

I still can't form an opinion about this one yet. If anything, increase the animation speed, while hes in the air.

Bastille

Just perfect.

Ember

Spoiler

Overall great rework. I personally liked the old ultimate, until i started using this new version of her 4 which i enjoy more than the old one.

However, there's a few stuff that i don't like about her now.

Fireball

Why couldn't you replace this with a Fire Wave? Well, i can't complain honestly, this is a decent first ability. BUT why did you remove the Napalm she used to left? I personally loved the idea of leaving a flaming patch behind, after using this ability. I actually have no reason to use this ability whatsoever now, not that i used it much before, but before i would sometimes use this on doorways so that enemy would get heat procced. Now this is not the case anymore.

Immolation

Overall great, but i need to know how much % dmg reduction i currently have, and when do i get it. Overall, a perfect ability for a squisy frame.

One problem with this ability (This is a personal preff), is the swirling flames that appears around ember. Couldn't you keep the flaming aura from her World on Fire and slap it on this ability?

Fire Blast

Just like fireball, why did you remove her Ring of Fire? I absolutely loved that part of her third ability. The only reason i used to press it. Now, fire blast just dosen't add up to her current kit, besides the "lower the Heat Meter" thing. It also costs 75 energy, which is not really good imo. Lowering the energy cost to 50, would be amazing.

Inferno

I`ll miss the old World on Fire, but i can't complain bout' the new ultimate. Amazing

That is about all, amazing reworks, just a few tweaks needed to make them even better.

Edited November 1, 2019 by m3stuart

[Fontaisha]

So this is my overall feedback for Vauban and I will just go over every ability however it will be long.

Tesla Nervos: The Tesla's to me are pretty good, however I really do not like how all the Tesla's can choose to stick on one target especially when using the Augment "Tesla Bank" which just makes it harder to spread the damage, I would change it so that each Tesla picks a target not already affected by one.

Tether Coil: I think this ability is actually pretty good, but if I was to change this I would just make it so you can only have 1 out but it holds 8 targets instead of having 4 that only hold 2 because it is kind of clunky to keep spamming it to get actual results out of it considering this game is very much a horde shooter.

Also the pull seems to be inconsistent, my hunch is that the enemy being dragged onto the floor is slowing the pull until there is no momentum left, so they're just stuck on the ground about 10-15 meters away from the Tether Coil, not sure how you would go about fixing that.

Flechette Orb: Honestly this ability is really good imo even with just 100% power strength, the damage is okay enough to where it can kill around level 60 corpus or infested when you have 4 of them out making it a pretty decent low level farm / clear tool, it can even work on some of the Grineer when you strip their armor first with Bastille, only thing I would really change is probably the damage type from puncture to something else, or maybe just increase the damage to 400 - 500 base instead of 300 to help it scale better.

Vector Pad: Personally this is just a nerfed Bounce, I would just make it have a 300 second duration with limited charges exactly like how Bounce was and maybe make allies who touch it gain some form of speed buff for a bit.

Overdriver: This ability is surprisingly the worst one in the entire Minelayer in my honest opinion because how how unbelievably clunky this ability is. The ability can only buff up to 4 entities with it and it is REALLY hard to control who you want to buff with it considering everybody is jumping around, it will target EVERYONE'S Sentinels, Kubrows, Kavats, and MOA's, it will even target Vaubans Tesla Nervos with which he can have 4. It feels really bad to use like this in its current state I would personally just make it work in a similar manner to how "Smite Infusion" / "Venom Dose" / "Freeze Force / "Shock Trooper" Etc work, in which you just throw the mine and it blows up in an AoE and buffs everybody in that blast radius with it instead of it being capped to 4 people and being prematurely taken off if you buff something else.

Photon Strike: This ability is also a really bad one, the damage is not enough for how long it takes and how much setup is required which in turn takes a lot of energy and you definitely are going to need a low efficiency blind rage build just to make this one ability relevant and even then....... I have a gun, a secondary weapon, a melee weapon, and even a companion that is more relevant than this ability in all honesty. I am really disappointed that Vauban never got some form of shield in his 3rd skill slot considering he is an Engineer, even more so with how he has really low survivability, and if I was to replace this ability with anything it would be a shield of some kind. Also the augment just encourages a play style that just is not fun at all, group enemies up wait 2 seconds and then it hits 5 enemies then cast again wait 2 seconds then keep gathering enemies up with more blind rage effected vortexes or coils, and it is really tedious when i can just kill them all with my gun and the assistance of just vortex or those tether coils and then be done with it and is also very energy inefficient especially considering your gonna have to run blind rage to make this relevant.

Bastille: This ability is pretty much the best part of the rework in my opinion but I would definitely make it cost 75 energy instead of 100 like MANY people suggested already, also I would like to see the armor buff match the duration of the actual Bastille so your not required to use it as much to keep that going for any semblance of survivability.

 

tl;dr 

Tesla Nervos: Make it prioritize unaffected targets instead of just stacking all 4 on 1.

Tether coil: should be 1 mine with 8 targets instead of 4 with 2 each, also fix inconsistency bug with it.

Flechette orb: needs either slightly more damage or a different damage type.

Vector pad: should just be like the old bounce (300 sec duration, charges) and maybe a speed buff too.

Overdriver: (might wanna skip to that section of my "book" since that is hard to summarize).

Photon strike: redundant, useless, would rather have a shield instead definitely would replace.

Bastille: make it 75 energy instead of 100.

 

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Fontaisha

[DroopingPuppy]

Ha, I didn't check that Fireball lose its lasting fire effect. Then, I don't get the point on Ember. Although she can survive the harsh condition, but she can't do anything else. It is still better than before for she is effectively removed from play for a year and a half of year, but it does not means she is good now - for now she is only playable.

[Colyeses]

40 minutes ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

Ember's heat gauge refills VERY FAST sometimes. How fast? Sometimes I have to spam the third ability three times in a row to get it to cool off and slow down. I don't know why it fills so fast sometimes.

 

Sometimes I spam the 4th ability while the heat bar is already full, then I notice energy draining very fast. So I cast 3rd ability, bar refills almost immediately, cast 3rd ability again, heat bar rises fast, cast it again, bar starts slowing down.

 

It's like the heat bar gains momentum and you gotta slam the brakes again and again to slow it down. 

AFAIK, casting your 1 and 4 increases the rate at which you gain heat, which stacks without limit. So, say the natural rate is 1% per 5, but casting your 4 adds 1% per second, then casting your 4 three times raises it to 3.2% per second. That effect persists through overheat and discharge.

It returns to normal veeeeeeeeery slowly.

[Xepthrichros]

I personally really like Vauban's orbital strike animation.

Sure. Not efficient. Not precise. But the twirl he does in the air before he slams the orbital strike marker ball down, plus the delay, and set up needed, and if you just keep doing all these while bullet jumping, and the shots actually line up and you hit the targets, makes you feel like a pro.

 

Yes. Vauban is fun if you want to make things more difficult for yourself. Which is what I do these days. If not its revert to Wukong press E to win. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Xepthrichros

[Mu_Gera]

Inferno seems like it's one of those abilities that suffer from not proc'ing status in any way, I was hoping the initial impact would've proc'd heat along with the fire swirl. The fire swirl spread also seems to barely spread to other enemies, sometimes it looks like the enemies have to basically touch eachother but yet again I only have stretch on.

Also I'm not sure if this would be off topic but I feel like heat proc stacking seems to be worse than other dot stacks, I haven't done much testing on it though.

[Monolake]

Worst part about Vauban change is animation delay on Bastile cast  - he simply dies in those 2 seconds it takes to cast and to land.  You could use teslas and pray they stun the enemies, but when there is a group of them its not going to save this glass frame.

[Hypernaut1]

4 hours ago, Kashik_HIkaru said:

I'm not really a fan of the new ember. The new abilities compared to the old ones are apples to oranges. Near Completely new kit should have been used on a new frame instead. 

Fireball still isn't really worth using. 

Immolation is interesting don't mind it so much but Fire Blast cost to much to use and if we have to get it down I'd expect it almost only to use the built up heat. Probably would have been better to change Accelerant into a wide sweeping stun that lasted longer. Either or this change could be said to have gone good or bad.

Fire Blast, cost too much to use if it has to be used to cool off Immolation. I think it should still have a persistent ring that does damage as enemy's walk into it and perhaps strip armor over time as they walk through it. It was a decent enough point def ability. 

Inferno, it's neat I kinda like it but it's definitely not ember. Why is it raining meteors? Did someone play Phantasy Star Online and decide they like the one meteor strike ability they saw? World on Fire was a 360 AOE that shrank over time as it got stronger and was great for running around and taking out the weaker hoards of enemy's allowing you to focus on eximus units and other stronger harder ones. This change was the most baffling to me, as it took away what was Embers signature ability, and replaced it with something that should have been probably been given to a new frame.

i feel like most people are fine with Inferno being a generic fire mage meteor, i dont get it. Im really disappointed in it. You take a cool idea like making enemies spontaneously combust, and replace it with magic meteors from the sky? why? The least they couldve done was keep the spontaneous combustion idea and make it targeted. I dont see why everyone thinks it looks so cool. 

I really hope DE doesnt continue to make it a habit to rework current frames into something else. Embers kit couldve been improved without creating a new fire frame. 

[Icecryos]

Vauban:

I tested him on a few mission and my opinion won't be different from the other post. This rework improve him but doesn't resolve his main drawbacks, he is still too squichy and he still have hard time following other warframes and doing anything revelant.

First, my main problem with the rework is the cast animation, they are too long, i understand they wanted to make cool looking animation but honestly you barely notice them in combat and it makes the abilities really annoying to use. One nice thing about the old Vauban was the instantaneousness of the ability, you just had to throw them and they worked immediately.

Nervos tesla:

On the paper like this new ability, it give you a passive mobile CC that prevent neaby ennemies from attacking you, it's supposed to give you some indirect survivability. The current problem the AI, they don't follow you correctly and don't react fast enough, but i think this problem can be corrected.

Minelayer:

This ability could be renamed Overdriver, it's the only useful mine, the others are redundant with his current kit or simply useless. Overall they doesn't worth the time you spend casting them. The casting animation is particulary annoying with this ability because, first, you have to select the correct mine, it can take 1-2sec, and then add the casting animation who last 1sec, you end up with an ability who is too slow to use. Most of the time, when you finnaly cast the ability, you don't need it anymore.

Tether coil: 2 ennemies is not enough, and it's redundant with bastille or nervos tesla, it could be removed or replaced.

Nail grenade: not enough damages and redundant with photon strike, it could be removed or replaced.

vector pad: unusable, the casting time is to long, you have to be immobile to use it properly, this totally remove the benefit of the ability, it can be used to make the ennemies slide but what's the point.

Overdriver: a good mine, but since the duration isn't very long you have to cast it regularly, so you end up using this mine by default and never use the other ones.

I may sound a bit salty concerning the  Minelayer but for me it was a critical ability to rework and it could have been used to adress the Vauban's survivability problems by giving him some defensive tool such as fortification that work a bit like frost bubble or a shield booster.

Photon strike:

A good damages ability, the scaling damages are useful for high level content, the energy cost is high, 75 is too much for what it does, the damages are good but not that big and the AOE is small, 50 energy would be better. The other problem is the delay, almost 3 seconds (4 second if i count the casting time), i understand the short delay but 3sec is way to long, the ennemies are often dead when the ability strike.

Bastille/Vortex:

The biggest improvement of the new kit, i think 100 energy is a bit much 75 would be better (This ability is also negatively affected by animation time, you don't have instant CC anymore...)

Bastille: The armor stripping is nice but too long, same thing for the armor buff, he is too long and don't last long enough (and it work only if ennemies are caught into bastille so you can't use bastille for defensive purpose only).

Vortex: The range have been greatly increased, this make the ability way more interesting than before.

Overall, i think the rework go in the right direction (except the casting time) but it is not enough. The abilities still cost a bit too much and take too long to be effectif. The Minelayer in his current state is missed, he need a total overhaul, i like the idea of a multi-kit ability (it fit the engineer style) but the current tool simply doesn't worth the struggle.

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Icecryos

[ScytodiDaedalus]

4 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

i feel like most people are fine with Inferno being a generic fire mage meteor, i dont get it. Im really disappointed in it. You take a cool idea like making enemies spontaneously combust, and replace it with magic meteors from the sky? why? The least they couldve done was keep the spontaneous combustion idea and make it targeted. I dont see why everyone thinks it looks so cool. 

I really hope DE doesnt continue to make it a habit to rework current frames into something else. Embers kit couldve been improved without creating a new fire frame. 

While the meteor animation is really cool, it really is in a good sense generic and the fact that Ember summons flamings ROCKS from above... really doesn't feel like it's part of her kit. In my opinion it shoulda been Fire pillars coming from below the enemies.

Only half of Ember's kit was changed, Fire Blast and Fire Ball remained while Accelerant and WoF got the bye bye's.

[ThatonePenguinPerson]

I'm loving the Vauban rework, but can we make it so you can throw Vauban's other grenades on a vector plate to send them flying in that direction? Probably won't find much use practically, but it'd be pretty fun to play with since you can already send his Tesla Nervos on it.

[Trenggiling]

So in my opinion, the Vauban rework kinda missed that mark a little.   Though it is pretty close.   Here is what I think should be changed and why.

 

Tesla Nervous

This is rather fun to play around with, but they do absolutely negligible damage.   Which is a shame, because the CC they provide is definitely not the coolest thing about them.   Especially when Vauban already has so many much funner and more powerful CC mechanics in his kit.

What I would change: Increase the damage, by a lot.   Make them Vauban's go to mines for cleaning up stranglers and chipping down big tough single targets.

 

Minelayer 

Okay so... I really like these abilities.   Though there is one thing which bothers me and that's how much time it takes to get everything out.

What I would change: Instead of an Ivara quiver style ability, Minelayer could be a 0 cost power that changes your 1st ability.   That way all the mines can benefit from the Hold to cast all 4 mechanic that Tesla has. you could even have a different held throw pattern for each one.

Horizontal line for Tesla, Vertical line for Vector Pad, box shape for Flechette, diamond shape for Overdriver, and a Y shape for Tether Coil. 

 

Overdriver

Great ability, though its super long apply range kinda invalidates its statues as a deployable device. Since it automatically jumps to you even if you just buffed yourself and are wanting to give the buff to someone else.

What I would change: Make Overdriver only do its long jump to people who are not currently effected by Overdriver, and give it a smaller range (3 or less meters that does not increase with range mods) jump with which it will refresh the buff of the closest person.

This way you could toss out 4 to quickly and easily buff everyone, then toss out another 4 to wait around on the wall until the buff to runs out.   So that they can reapply the buff when it wheres off.
Oh and if this isn't how it works already, make the mines themselves have permanent duration while waiting to buff someone.

 

Flechette
Again, great ability very fun to use.
What I would change: Not much I would change here, maybe hire status proc chance?  

 

Tether Coil

The idea behind this ability is just so funny, but as it is now its a little bugged. Holding onto dead enemies etcetera.

What I would change: First of all add more pull strength the farther away an enemy is from the main grenade.   Second, don't make it grip onto the same two enemies for the full duration.   Instead it should grab ahold of one enemy when first cast then another every few seconds, holding each one for only about a 5th of the full duration.   It should be timed in such a way that there is pretty much always two or more enemies grabbed at any given time.   

 

Vector Pad

Such a fun idea, but you never get more benefit out of it then the time it takes to set the speed pads up.

What I would change: Give the speed pads infinite duration like wisps onions, so that Vauban can set them up in strategic locations without having to worry about replacing them every few minutes.   Maybe also give it a lingering mild sprint speed boost so that you can get more out of it then a single kick of momentum.

 

Photon Strike

My word is this cool! And it fits his trapper theme perfectly. My only issue with it is that all the set up needed to land those sick orbital laser strikes doesn't really lead up to anything special.  Most weapons hit harder with some basic mods.   And it is even more underwhelming on the high duration builds that the rest of his kit encourages. 

What I would change: Make it a continuous beam instead of a single burst of damage. 

Though it should still be super snappy even on high duration builds.   Something like x/x/x/700 damage every 0.25 seconds for 1/1/1/1 second.   You could even have it shrink in size as it ticks so that you deal more damage the more direct the hit is.

 

Bastille/Vortex

What can I say? Making these both the same ability was the right call.

What I would change: Nothing really...

Edit: Okay so... Tesla Nervous actually has a perfectly fine number of charges.
I don't know how, but I got mixed up thinking that the number at the bottom showed the remaining charges and not the number of drones out at the moment

 

 

Over all good job on the rework, though it is no Wukong.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Trenggiling

[IamLoco]

About EMBER so far.

I absolutely LOVE the "4" Inferno. It´s great and very usable. It COULD scale a little higher though, it can´t really do that much to very high level enemies. (well, not unless you have used 2 and 3 to strip their armor, which is a great functionality)

 

What I dislike about Ember is that she has absolutely no way to regenerate health. I would have thought that she might even get healed by fire damage when she is on fire by her "2" immolation. I died earlier to a firewall while....being on fire.

 

My suggestion: When her immolation meter is full, let her drain energy but restore health at the same time. If would be a trade off, energy versus health.

Edited November 1, 2019 by IamLoco

[Reivhyn]

You can heal vis via her augment.

Someone mentioned earlier that gaining energy from her passive based on how many enemies are on fire would be a good way to help her economy. Like Saryn when she was really hungry. I think that's a good way to help mitigate some of the issues with energy management. Good idea to whoever had it.

The way inferno works is awesome and I do like the animation. But I have to say Ruks version of wof would have been sick animation wise.

 

Are her abilities supposed to have a proc chance or are they supposed to be a guaranteed proc? Either way that information didn't seem available in game. 

[Hypernaut1]

16 minutes ago, IamLoco said:

About EMBER so far.

I absolutely LOVE the "4" Inferno. It´s great and very usable. It COULD scale a little higher though, it can´t really do that much to very high level enemies.

 

What I dislike about Ember is that she has absolutely no way to regenerate health. I would have thought that she might even get healed by fire damage when she is on fire by her "2" immolation. I died earlier to a firewall while....being on fire.

 

My suggestion: When her immolation meter is full, let her drain energy but restore health at the same time. If would be a trade off, energy versus health.

She has an augment that heals. 

[IamLoco]

2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

She has an augment that heals. 

ah, thank you! Didn´t see it, as I never really played her before.

[Rynax15]

So far this rework for Ember has been a good step forward for the frame if only thanks to immolate and the combo system for fireball. However there is still much that could be done in order for Ember to achieve a level of damage scaling that doesn't just nuke the whole map with one button press but instead allows her to build up damage and well melt things in her path or to set up a field of carnage.

-The Passive: Unfortunately this passive, while having requirements that can easily be activated than her previous passive, is in a conflicting situation in that in order to maximize it's potential your damage needs to be low enough to maintain the strength boost that is largely meant to increase your damage thus effectively canceling itself out.

An improvement to this buff that I would suggest is a short timer (Maybe around 10 seconds.) that increases in stacks when an enemy is set on fire up to a cap (+50% due to it being short lived buff) that can be refreshed as long as an enemy receives heat damage within affinity range.

-Fireball: Remained largely the same except for 2 key differences: the combo meter and its explosion range. The combo meter is a large boon to an otherwise criminally under powered ability with which you can achieve a form of long sought after "damage scaling". However, this is marred by it's absolutely pitiful explosive range and archaic charge mechanic that is currently broken with it's own augment (Though this is a bug and not intended.)

I suggest that that combo meter should be the focus of this ability and perhaps we can fix that explosive range issue in one fell swoop. The ability should be split into 2 parts: the combo part and the charge part. The combo part simply keeps the ability at it's current state: repeated casts within a timer increase its damage. the only change here might be to increase its base explosive range to 3m maybe even 5m if we want to be a little generous. The charge part is what need dire changes as charging the ability is a complete waste of time even with the increase in combo multiplier largely due to, again, the pitiful range boost. That being said the charge mechanic should instead incorporate the combo meter as the charge meter itself as in: charging the ability will bring up the combo meter and it will go through the multipliers just as casting the ability repeatedly except instead it is through "charging". It is also within these multipliers that we should also add a boost to range that scales off the multiplier. (Up to maybe 15m. Something significant to warrant spending time charging for a big swing.)

-Immolate: Possibly the best change in this rework as its function and limits are well within reason but could stand some tweaking. The damage reduction is a very welcome change and even return but the mechanic that it constantly increases the strain on your energy if you want to maximize the damage reduction is a bit much as it greatly punishes any attempt to focus on maintaining that damage reduction. However this could very well be the intention as Ember is not meant to be a tank but a caster frame. So there in lies the issue with Immolate: "it's supposed to protect me but then it hurts me."

This ability needs an additional effects or perhaps synergy with other abilities beyond Fireball's increased charge rate. One suggestion I have is to give it a fire damage buff that constantly increases just as the damage reduction increases and the energy drain, but unlike the damage reduction, which is capped, the fire damage buff will continue to increase just as the energy cost increases. This would then give players a more significant "risk/reward" system for attempting to maintain the ability active, however there needs to be an in-ability incentive to turn off the ability so as to dissuade any attempts at making a "Tank Ember" despite the ability's limitations such as having the fire damage buff linger for a duration after toggling Immolate.

-Fire blast: It's new armor stripping mechanic is a fantastic addition to another criminally under powered ability. The main issues confronting Fire Blast is another common limitation factor in warframe abilities: line of sight.

Certainly, many warframe abilities that are limited to targeting enemies only if they are within line of sight are very powerful and can be used with the classic "press x button to win" that has been a thorn in both the developers and the players side for a long time now. This is not the case with Fire blast. In fact Fire Blast has been long since a poor choice for any kind of damage aoe or otherwise but for the sake of preventing any more cases of huge, map-wiping, aoe abilities; this ability's method of applying the armor strip should be changed from instantaneous to perhaps over time in a slightly smaller area range that the ability currently has so as to be able to still rend enemy armor as it was intended but also to be able to affect more enemies as they come within line of sight rather than depending on microscopic targeting of a pixel of an enemy just barely poking out of cover.

-Inferno: I not gonna lie, I was excited to hear that we would be able to call in meteors on enemies. Unfortunately this ability suffers from a common warframe ability limitation that prevents more effective use: it requires you to target an enemy. The good news is that this ability's target mechanic is significantly more lenient than certain other targeting mechanics however this still puts a hamper on what this ability could be used for beyond pointing at enemies and causing explosive phenomena.

In a similar vein to my suggestion with Fire Blast's issue with its targeting methods, Inferno needs to have a method of applying its effect regardless of enemy targets; however her in lies a separate issue: energy economy. As Inferno stands now it is somewhat cost efficient as it only drains enough energy as it needs to when targeting enemies, so then it becomes a question of: do you want to hit a number of enemies in your sight-line randomly while having some efficiency due to lack of targets or do you want to have a bit more control over where your damage lands but you'll need to pay the full cost every time? Well. Why not both? Inferno should have 2 parts not unlike fireball with a single button press effect and a charge effect that also gets its charge rate increased by Immolate. The single button press uses the ability as normal, it targets up to 10 enemies within line of sight and consumes energy per target. The charge effect will lay down a cylindrical targeting area that will rain down the meteors in that area for the duration of the ability which means less duration will cause a quick burst of damage and more duration will prolong each meteor but also potentially hit more enemies as they walk into the effect area.

For me this rework for Ember got closer to making Ember what she was meant to be as it came with some much needed improvements for our favorite fire chicken. I hope that any future improvements to warframes comes with careful consideration as to how the frame works within itself as well as the rest of the world but also with a healthy helping of the bombastic variety.

[killedguydied]

It was a HUGE mistake to add cast animations on vauban, I am not sure why this was done, but now you can't cast your 4 when playing against enemies past lvl75

[SanityCzech]

Ember's "3" should drain heat and not cost energy. The balancing act with her "2" is currently not enjoyable and too energy expensive compared to other Warframes with damage reduction abilities like Rhino or Gara. There's not enough energy left over to use other skills.

If "2" is going to keep the steep energy penalty at max, it should have an additional benefit like healing or a flame aura that damages nearby enemies.

[IamLoco]

4 minutes ago, Rynax15 said:

 

-Inferno: I not gonna lie, I was excited to hear that we would be able to call in meteors on enemies. Unfortunately this ability suffers from a common warframe ability limitation that prevents more effective use: it requires you to target an enemy.

eh? No it doesn´t. You can cast it any time and IF an enemy is within range, a meteor will drop. No need to target anything.