(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback

[Nssheepster]

3 minutes ago, Zebiko said:

It's a lazy way to extend the time to kill them. If they made the process of "hunting" the lich down more interesting, and have more mechanics, people wouldn't be complaining as much. I did post a way to extend the grind earlier in this thread, taking out some rng, and adding more detective mechanics to the process. The whole system needs a major redo already, but that would take too much time and money, so DE and the players are pretty much stuck with it, either to be never touched again, or updated years from now in a lich 2.0 update. So basically rip.

This strikes way too many cords with way too many things DE has done. They make things, they do a couple balance passes, they blindly abandon them, never to return again.

[ManlyPicnics]

The new Parazon is cool, but I think it's pretty bare bones as is. For starters, I'd prefer if Stealth Attacks on Thralls would just do the Secret Mercy immediately, instead of Melee Finisher Animation -> Secret Mercy Animation. Just have it immediately go into the Secret Mercy. Additionally, I'd like to see some more ways to trigger Mercies. Even adding a mod that boosts chance of Mercy by a set percent. Maybe even add some unique conditional mods that immediately open an enemy for a Mercy. If it's intended for replacing the One-Shot Kills of Covert Lethality, it should be easily triggered like CL was. (Personally, I think it'd be nice if I could Mercy an enemy trying to use a console, they're perfectly vulnerable, so why not?)

It was also mentioned that the Parazon would be used in Capturing target, any plans on changing the animation to reflect that?

I'd also like to see some extra value in performing a Mercy. Even if it's just added through different mods. Perhaps using Mercy on Robotic Units to hack them (not just Bursas), or making it so Mercy killing an enemy yields a Codex Scan, so people have a more active way of doing so like with the Heliocor. Even an option for Mercy killing Eximus units for either unique buffs or a special effect. (e.g Jacking into an Arctic Eximus would cause it to explode, mass freezing any units under its effects.)

I think things like this could add additional value to the Utility Blade, making it a crucial part of any Tenno's arsenal outside of Liches.

[Madway7]

-Please improve relic RNG

Either by increasing the reg siphon relic chance to about 60% or if you're feeling generous, make it so reg siphons have 100% chance to give 1, while floods have 100% chance to give 2.

In addition to this please add requiem relic packs to syndicates (maybe just have it give 1-2 relics)

Also make it so that it costs kuva to rad the relics instead of traces (same amount as reg relics)

and

Remove the chance to have your relics stolen, floods usually don't last long enough to give you time to clear the node.

 

or

 

4 hours ago, KokoroWish said:

Forget the Relics, Just have the mods potentially drop from the Kuva Siphon/Flood missions and/or missions on the Kuva Fortress its self. The relics are one layer of RNG and resource spending too many. 

this

 

 

 

-In regards to kuva liches

 

Have their rank affect the bonus damage value (maxing out the value at their max rank)

 

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by Madway7

[Virisken]

Time Investment with a Top Geared Squad and a Plan:

Kuva Lich from Creation to Death => 3,5 Hours

Farming all 8 Mods from Kuva Flood/Siphon Mission to full Set dropped => ~ 12 Hours

So multilayered RNG seems to be a bit of Overkill... The Murmur Farm on the other Hand can be done pretty fast and it counts for everyone in the Group, so u can beat 4 Kuva Lich in about the same Time (3.5 - 4 Hours)

I got Twin Stubba and the new Arch Gun on my Lich Kills... and now another Twin Stubba, which kinda sucks... maybe consider a fixed Rotation of Weapons so u dont get a duplicate before u got all the Kuva Weapons, as this kills the Fun pretty fast. Requiem Mods can be aquired faster and faster with passing time and the Murmur "Grind" isnt to bad if u have fun in Discord/TS during the runs.

[CrazedAnthem]

I never really post on the forums, but i feel strongly that i should offer some feedback on this update.

1. Kuva Liches

I would like to offer some ideas about changes on the killing of the Lich itself. In fantasy lore a Lich is an undead being who has bound their soul to a Phylactery which grants them the ability to return from the dead even when their form is destroyed, to kill a Lich permanently you have to destroy its Phylactery. I was under the impression that the Kuva Lich would be the same considering what the lich in the Empyrean demo said, ''being killed over and over but still growing stronger''.

My suggestion would be to make the Lich killable regardless of requiem combination, but everytime you kill him without the right combination he just comes back and ranks up or conquers more territory. This would make the Kuva Lich feel more like an actual Lich, this is way more interesting, plus; it would get rid of the ''neck-instantly-snapped-because-you-used-the-wrong-combination'' frustration, which makes the whole ordeal more satisfying and less.. well, frustrating.

2. Parazon

What can i say? I love this thing. I only wish we could have more opportunities to use it. Maybe a toggle option so you can use your Parazon as the finisher?

3. Kuva Lich Weapons

Considering the current time investment and effort required to kill a Lich i would propose to buff the weapons so they feel more like a proper reward. This would incentivise players to keep grinding away for that awesome weapon at the end.

Edited November 7, 2019 by CrazedAnthem

[MunsuLight]

Time for a little feedback about this lich system. It seems pretty cool but it is flawed to so many levels.

1) The layers of grind and RNG is insane. First layer of RNG is getting the larvling to spawn . That can take quite a lot of time if you dont run fast mission and even there you can still get no during 5 to 10 missions.

Second layer of RNG/grind are the Kuva Requiem relics.. You have to farm them during Siphons/Flood. Siphons has a pitiful 30% drop which is not enough IMO. You should have to do all Kuva Siphon for a chance at a relic. It should reward you like a rotation does normally . Siphons should have 100% chance to drop a relic or at least 75% .. Flood giving 100% is alright but why not having 100% +30 % chance to drop a second one.

Now Third layer  and Fourthof Grind/RNG, you need to get your requiem mods who are uncommon so for the better chance you need to Radiant them... But to radiant them you need to farm Void traces (4th layer). Either put the mods at common or just make the Relic grind easier.  ALSO, REMOVE the charge thing... It is so counterintuitive and it just add another layer of grind once it break...

5th Layer is The Murmur grind which is kinda insane. You need to kill so many thrall to just get 1 of the hints which should happen . Reduce them to like 10 to fully unveil one hint. Grind is just unfun

6th layer of grind is the Weapon itself.. Im already at my 3rd lich and all 3 of them had Kuva Karak... I need to kill or Convert the lich just to get rid of it which is kinda idiotic tbh. There should be a way to get rid of them or give them to the clan without even starting the hunt. I cant fathom how we will get all the new kuva weapons if this still is in the game in the next few weeks.

7th layer of grind is discovering the 1 in 6 combination which isnt too hard, but the 3 murmur grind should give the order if it stay at this number of thralls, or still be random if the number of thrall is reduced.

8th The FACT that they can steal your REQUIEM relics that you need to kill them, is kinda asinine

There is no point in ranking your lich except making the mission harder which isnt a problem in itself, but it just make the fight a boring bulletspongy fight. Make it that if your lich get stronger, the % bonus of elemental rise.

2) Kuva Weapons in itself are fine. Nothign to say there.

3) Parazon/Finisher. You really need to let us finisher CL kill every enemy like dagger could do before, it just pain me to see Ivara/Inaros losing their "endurance" possibilities. Also because of that, some of the mods Blood mods are just not good enough because you  can really proc them because people would be killing your mercy'd enemies.. The other mods are nice QoL mods.

Edited November 2, 2019 by MunsuLight

[bl1te]

My second post here. A positive feedback about the update in general.

.

.

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I love you, DE! All these new things like gave me a fresh breath, a new life into Warframe! I feel so excited with this new Melee; all this action going on here and there; all these camera moves when performing a Mercy Kill and when "Mercying" Lich; all these sounds when a new Thrall spawns...

In addition to this, I mostly play now as Valkyr melee only, +with Hysteria augment, and boi that's just.. WHAAA, SO COOOL.

Looks really cool and epic! Please, make more of such stuff! Thanks!!!

Btw, why Parazon kills are called "mercy"? You do kill the target anyway, you know?

 

EDIT: Kuva Lich's grab still undodgeable. It just instakills any frame and Lich despawns giving you not even an attempt to perform a Parazon hit.

Edited November 2, 2019 by bl1te
EDIT

[Nasahul]

Killed my first Lich earlier, and went a got a second after that. It is the exact same Lich as the first. Same weapons, same armor, same model, same voice. Just a different name and different weaknesses is all. Feelsbadman.jpg Wish there was a way to get rid of them immediately. It's going to suck having to grind out the mods and requiem murmurs just to have the exact same experience again with no option of rewards, since I took the weapons the first time. The Kuva Lich "trading" between players can't come soon enough.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Nasahul

[Phillibe]

Please, PLEASE can we not use void traces to enhance the requiem relics. Could we not just use Kuva instead. I have mountains of Kuva I have no use for, and loads of relics that could use enhancement. PLEASE

[PSvsXBOX]

One more thing that I would like to see updated is the "Known Requiem" research, its slow. By the time I kill my second lich I will probably reveal the second one 😄 Cheers!

[bubbabenali]

BTW. Is there a way to opt out of this? Maybe until the console release?

I don't have the omg armor cracking weapons I'll need to even dream of damaging the lich on my Xbox account. 

[WhiteWolf3500]

I feel like all has been already said. However, I just now had completed the lich and can make my own opinion on it. I'll toss few cents anyway.

So let's start from the very being of how you start the lich hunt. It's a weak, easy to miss and ever easier to kill enemy. Nothing wrong with that until you don't want to find and kill it. The whole thing should have a little different trigger mechanic just to not allow for activation by mistake. Maybe a cheap and craftable beacon? Just my opinion, It's not that big of the deal as the rest.

The next think is how RNG the lich generation process is. It's nice that we can choose an element by using a certain warframe but we can not pick the weapon. There are 14 kuva weapons and each one of them could use a different elemental bonus. This creates situations where I can get, in my opinion, worthless combinations. I then have no point in the whole grind that is to come. Killing the lich would give me a weapon I don't want or would never think about maxing out. Sparing isn't ideal either since it still consumes the mod charge and I don't like AI companions. It might be just me about AI help, but I still don't really care about it. I would add a system that would allow us to pick the weapon as we choose the element. Maybe specific missions should have the weapon fixed on them? Lich birthplace could matter.

Now that we have an element bonus and the weapon picked, why does the bonus have a random %number? This makes any weapon with 46% bonus worse then the one with 48%. This should not be a thing in my opinion. This is not a riven mod. This is a weapon and should always have fixed stats. We have rivens for random stat bonus. I've seen only those little % differences but if they are indeed random then I don't like them at all. Farming a subpar weapon just to learn with another try that I could have something better is really not fun at all. Please remove the random % bonus.

Ok, lich generation completed. What's next? Parazon mods? I don't have much to say about those. I like how it made siphon mission way more useful. It's heavily RNG but it can be lived with. Trading helps a lot with getting the full set. Really fun for me. What I don't like however is the number of charges on those mods. Since we can get a lich with a worthless weapon to a player then there should be no punishment for not taking it. You have to use a charge if you want to finish the lich, no matter if you spare or kill. This combination of bad or not ideal weapon rolls and the need to farm more mods makes the grind insufferable. It's just longer for the sake of being a long grind with little reward. I get the overall idea behind it and I'm personally ok with those mods keeping the charge mechanic but it either should be refillable. Since the whole thing gets you kuva in the process, why not use it to refill mods charges? You can also instead give it at very least 5 charges instead of 3. Maybe both to just make it less depended on reruning RNG relics all the time.

Now we have a lich and a weapon to kill it. The next step is learning the correct mod combination and order. Right now it's a mindless thrall farming. Running extermination and defence just to get the most thralls to spawn. It takes so much time just to learn the mods. The mechanic in itself it good but the number of thralls you have to kill is way too high. I propose you cut the number in half or even just make it 1/4 of what it is now. I want a challenge in killing the lich, not to repeat the same mission type for hours.

Also lich killing you just because you picked the wrong mod in the slot seems weird and unfitting. I have no improvement for this in my head right now. Just saying it feels weird when I die just by pressing X on a keyboard.

Ok, the last part. Fighting the lich. It's cool. I can't imagine the boss being any more thrilling. Animations and combat are great! The only problem is everything that came before that. It's a very long process and if the lich does not have the correct element on the correct weapon with good random % bonus... Yea, I'm unhappy about the reward then. Sparing isn't much of an option for those who don't care about AI help since you don't get anything else from it. The worst thing is that I still lose mod charge when I spare the lich. While the weapons are fun, receiving the wrong combination just makes them worthless in the eyes of the player. For example if I knew from the very beginning that I would get an electric kuva brakk with a fixed % damage bonus, I would be much happier about the whole grind. Instead, I got kuva drakgoon with 48% heat. I don't want any extra heat on that to be honest.

The last mechanic I want to talk about is the lich tax. It's pointless. I like the idea but it needs an extra twist to it. Just stealing some items and giving them back 1:1 has no other point to it. Only makes me avoid those planets and never wanting to activate a lich if I can't kill it fast. Lich should have some kind of investment mechanic put into the tax. For example all stollen credits are muliplied by 10, endo is multiplied by 4, minerals by 2 and etc. Those were random, exemplary numbers but if the lich has to steal rewards then it has to do something with it. Otherwise, it just makes me not want to have an active lich.

Finishing this long post now. There are 14 weapons, and I do want to get them all with the good element for me. Ephemeras are also a thing I want to grind. There are countless of lich runs I want to make, and I would love being able to do them all in my life time. As it stands right now, killing a lich is a really long pain. A random weapon with a random % bonus is going to only stretch out the grind and make me feel guilty if I settle for something that isn't perfect. We have rivens for a massive random element. We don't need to add an extra layer of RNG to it. Please do not extend this to weapons as well. The grind should be shorter with less RNG on the lich weapon part. Other than than that, It's a fantastic update that has been real fun! ☺️ I'll go do an other lich run but I really hope for an update to make it more fluent and less RNG. I won't play it anymore if it will stay like it is just because it's not worth the stress and grind.

[UnknownCoffeeRebel]

First of all,I must say I genuinely enjoy the update so far.Grendel's cooking so I can't really say much about it,but the missions were..well,naturally,people are divided.Getting used to the power you have can feel as if the missions make it irrelevant,albeit that's not necessarily the case-I'd rather view it as a challenge...enjoyable or not.

As for my actual feedback,I'll start with the Parazor-I was so intrigued by it,I couldn't wait to get my hands on it...but wait,wasn't it supposed to help us revive teammates?Capture targets?Anyhow,a neat tool to have for the Mercy kills...which,in my humble opinion,need a bit of tweaking ...right now the lich "minions" are alright,when killed they enter that state and you can freely go and stab them gloriously...but the rest of the enemies we meet tend to enter that state for few seconds near death,and truth be told,they were dead the moment we got our sights on them-so why not tune down the chance and instead make it so that when a normal enemy dies it has a,say,flat 10% chance of instead entering that "mercy" state,expiring after 3 second..."Mercy"killing,right,saving them the agony?If we aren't fast enough or simply don't care,they will simply die regardless,not breaking any missions and so on.

As for the liches,my first one,Ziggo,was just defeated,after breaking my back roughly 10ish times.I like it,that "power inversion " is slight,but it's there.However,I feel as if they need to be a tad more intrusive.No idea if they can attack you outside of their specific zones,but so far,I've met my lich only while going for his followers,which gives me almost a "forced encounter" feeling.I'm not feeling hunted,I'm feeling as if my annoying neighbour is asking me when will I finally go with him to the cinema-I can just say no and evade that content alltogether.
 Speaking liches,their territory is a neat idea,stealing resources and all...I'm feeling as if they need to be constantly stealing,even when an alert or normal mission is ran in their "sectors",and why are they taking so little-let ém have more,so that I feel better for stabbing them in the end.Let them hunt us around the system,albeit more rarely than their nodes,else it will get kinda old.Perhaps a chance that increases ,based on whether or not the lich has control over the node?

Vasca kavat-alright,but I like my smeeta 

The reworks-Sweet,though I'm simply not an ember/vuuboi player.

The leverian-amazing,I'd love to see more....have ma' credits!

The new melee-takes some adjusting ,but it's more streamlined and therefore,more casually fun .Again,here people will be divided,naturally.But let me ask a question...how many of you actually used the combos before...how many of you prefer the good ol maiming strike and max range whip combo?...Anyways,the lifted status and heavy attacks are a neat gimmick ,but,well,a gimmick none-the-less.I enjoy that,hell,on the grendel defense lifting enemies was my go to CC ,since we were running trin-frost-rhino-harrow ,and our rhino hardly stomped.I enjoy the changes,though they don't really have *such* a big impact...though,god,being able to see the holster animations again is a pleasant sight .

The fixes are,naturally,always welcomed.This update is definitely a good step,in my eyes at least.Now for the next one 🙂 
 Respect,DE,for keeping and ever-improving this lovely gem...albeit in the rough from time to time.

[Metrulizer]

There is a 70% chance of getting no relic in a Kuva Siphon. This makes Kuva Siphons feel unrewarding to the Lich system. I would prefer a mix of refined relics. Something like "30% exceptional, 70% intact in siphons, higher tiers in floods". Improving the ease of acquiring upgraded requiem relics can help justify requiem mods as consumables.

The thralls occasionally spawn far from mission objectives, PUG groups often split up, with some groups struggling to catch up after killing a thrall. Since lich controlled nodes are separate from regular nodes, thralls tend to be prioritized over mission objectives. Thralls also do not spawn in consistent/predictable numbers. I suggest adding some murmur to the mission objectives to help teams stick together. If not that, just give more variety in sources of murmur.

EDIT: Many people refuse to mercy their Lich because they don't have the requiems. I haven't tested, but this could block other people's Lich from spawning.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Metrulizer
Additional feedback

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

While I wasn't able to experience the update I did observe it. Only will talk about the Kuva Liches, other content I would have to experience myself to form solid feedback on it.

Before I start it needs to be noted that the Kuva Liches are meant to be content that's played for a long time rather than rushed as some are already doing.

First thing is that there's too much RNG tied to this whole system so it surely would be of benefit to reduce it in some aspect of it. The Murmur feel like an extreme grind so they need to be adjusted in some way as they become stale and boring really fast so that a lot of people instead resort to trying to brute-force the combination.

For us forming a relationship with the lich it is rather minimal as it is, we create them, only see communication popups in occupied nodes and eventually the fight itself where they die or defeat you. Stuff like them trying to invade our mission like an assassin randomly or even sending death squads like syndicates do would make it a bit more interesting. Maybe even specific missions as somebody said, like recovering stolen goods from their ship, or some form of investigation missions. Something that makes us interact more with the lich.

And considering that it's meant to be something that's meant to be played for a while the rewards should be a bit better, while the kuva weapons are nice the problem is that once players have them all there will be little reason to play this even with different variations and stats for a lot of people. Maybe something like the kuva resource and other stuff would be a good reason to keep it interesting for players. Something that makes it a bit more worth the while.

 

I understand that this is only the first form of this system and that it will be expanded with new weapons, lich variations, abilities and so on but it's in need of some adjustments.

Was looking forward to this system since it's initial reveal as the kingpin system all that time ago.

Edited November 2, 2019 by (PS4)reddragonhrcro
typo

[Jack_1990]

Someone know, mods spent charges only for VANQUISH or on CONVERT too?

[WhiteWolf3500]

1 minute ago, Jack_1990 said:

Someone know, mods spent charges only for VANQUISH or on CONVERT too?

For both actions

[Jack_1990]

damn youtubers, spread disinformation...

[WhiteWolf3500]

Just now, Jack_1990 said:

damn youtubers, spread disinformation...

This update is huge and long to test. I don't blame them that much. I can say that I did convert and lost a charge. My friend vanquished and lost a charge as well.

[brimiste]

Hello,

Is it normal that a vanquished (not conquered) lich came to help me during a mission? I thought it was either the weapon or the help, and it seems I had both. (Will had screenshot if it happens again)

[SinistralMessa]

Finishing an unalerted thrall from the back should also mercy kill the thrall! It is fairly redundant for the thrall to go to 0 health with the finisher, but the player then having to effectively repeat the action.

Thralls also very much display the unfortunate side-effect of uninterruptible enemy attacks and actions - I have killed and/or CC'd tens of thralls that have performed their teleport dash attack after being completely incapacitated. Very often the thrall will already be in the mercy state but still attacking while in it. Interrupting enemy actions has been sorely missing from the game since the beginning and the thrall skills are a perfect storm of this issue.

Gaining murmur obviously takes too long - I'd cut about 1/3rds of the meter if not 1/2ths. I don't think more thralls is the solution, unless you make them spawn in all missions, not just these specific missions.

Just to note - played an exterminate mission that spawned just three thralls in it. 3 out of 103 is obviously broken - Should be about 1/10th of all missions! In fact, why not have -completing- the missions have an effect on the murmur meter?

Edited November 2, 2019 by SinistralMessa
Too few thralls

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

*Posted this somewhere else already but I decided to put it here as well

I'm a console player firstly so I'm only speaking from observation and it appears the process of engaging with the lich system is...annoying. The means to farm relics is a one way road (a one way RNG, narrow and limited road) and engaging with liches, specifically gaining intel and figuring out requiem mod combination is cumbersome at best. Let's try and fix that.

Relics

The new T5 relics within the canon of the game are a result of experimentation on the Kuva Fortress, so they are Kuva relics right. So then lets make them obtainable from all Kuva related missions namely: Floods, Siphons and standard Kuva Fortress missions. How so?

Well floods and siphons are our best ways of getting Kuva so it follows they should be our best way of getting Kuva relics. The 100% drop chance on flood completion (assuming the bug gets fixed) is perfect. Siphons are comparatively more plentiful but you can only run so many in lets say an hour so instead of 30% drop chance it should be 50%-75% to allow for bearable gathering of relics from these missions.

Then we can have a supplementary means of relic acquisition which will be regular Kuva Fortress missions (similar to the Void) at a 25% chance on mission completion or on rotation completion for all missions except Kuva survival. For Kuva survival it can be a 25% chance on completing a Kuva harvester. This should allow for more conventional farming if floods and siphons aren't your thing.

The obtaining of requiem mods from that point should feel more akin to getting uncommon drops from Void relics.

Intel

I don't have this update so I can't say for sure what it's like but judging from general disdain and the employing of a trial and error method which goes against the general way we do our "murder" I can say intel gathering is a bit poo. To make it interesting what if thralls had ranks of sorts, kinda like the Immortal Syndicate in Path of Exile, the higher the rank of the subordinate the harder the fight and the more intel you get on defeating them. The rank can be determined by either whether or not the Lich itself has spawned or will spawn in the mission we're running or maybe by proximity to the node the Lich will spawn on. Example let's assume 3 ranks exist, Rank 3 thralls will spawn on the Lich's node and are uncommon on the node(s) 1 step away from it, Rank 2 thralls appear on the nodes 1 step away and 2 steps away then Rank 1s appear on nodes 2 steps way and further. Also the higher the rank the tougher they are, good intel shouldn't come like control modules. 😉 The behaviour of acquired intel can remain as is save for one small adjustment to incentivize intel gathering over brute force stupidity.

Requiem mod combinations 

Now that getting to the Lich is easier we should make the Lich itself harder to compensate. Instead of the current system where dying ranks the Lich up, we Have the Lich at a max level and max possible reward let's use 15 for example purposes. So the way things could work is everytime you get defeated the Lich loses 2 levels however if you either had full intel on one of the mods(regardless of whether you got the position right or not) or you guessed at least one of them right in the correct placement via brute force it only loses one level. Level loss doesn't make the Lich any easier but instead you get slightly less reward per level lost up to a minimum of getting the weapon with below average rolls and the resource tax back.

What could the maximum possible rewards be?

On top of what we can get already, if you never got defeated by the Lich then it will drop 30-50 thousand Kuva, the weapon dropped should roll above average stats, where applicable, at minimum and 3 or 4 requiem relics. Maybe...I don't know, these are suggestions🤷‍♂️.

Lastly requiem mod packs should go away and never return, never. They should be obtained purely from playing the game. I'm not entirely certain if there is a requiem mod pack but if there is...to the void with it!

P.S Iron out bugs and questionable system implementations before console release

A console Tenno

[ixidron92]

Sincerely, the Kuva lich system is very, very interesting but the implementation is an epic failure. The entire system is completely RNG dependent grind  for every single aspect of it, which looks like something you'd expect from a bad quality Chinese P2W MMO.

Honestly, that was a disaster. No matter what, people might agree or disagree about every single aspect of the update (the reworks, the new melees, Grendel, etc.) but everyone unanimously agrees the Kuva Lich is ludicrously grindy and unfulfilling thanks to its complete RNG dependency.

On average, it takes 24 missions to uncover the mods you need to kill the lich. 3-4 assassinations to get the combination unless you're very lucky or unlucky. 6-7 missions to get the kuva lich to spawn once. Then, you need to get the mods, which should take 2-4 relics per mod plus the kuva flood to get one relic. All of that, combined, at worst, can be 116 missions per lich and everything is already RNG dependent, and on top of it, you add an RNG weapon with RNG elements and RNG damage bonus, and the worst part is the next lich can have the same weapon. Trying to get all the different weapons is gonna be impossible.

Do you play your own game? Because I swear, if you were forced to do all that from start to finish without using dev tools or cheating, you wouldn't have shipped it in that state.

[pokpla]

Beeing tied to only normal missions, doesn't feel right, this way you need to do normal missions with the sole reason to get a nemesis, doing normal missions to farm nemesis, or getting every nemesis spawned in hydron, while you could get nemesis while you did other things, and isnt really killing everything with saryn. Don't really see the reason to not let get during sorties or fissures, or even in kuva siphons.

Edit: after like a day farming random things, in special missions, I go to a normal mission, and prepared to farm more than is needed for gauss, to farm for a kuva lich and in the first wave one appeared, if its this easy well where you need to go as long you dont really need to farm is ok, but dont really se why it needs to be a normal mission still. I didnt relly get the kuva larving, even if the guardian apears and says that its getting back, no idea why, only worked on telesto extermination on solo and when killed with a sword.

The system seems like a grindfest, collecting mumurs take too long, getting to fight the kuva lich takes too long. Getting the mods takes too long is rng over rng farming. Its just an ocassional fight once in a week, for a kuva seer

The rewards arent really worth it and the fights take so long to happen that serioly not interested, 

First of all more than 1 kuva lich would be cool, just reduce their spread, and seriosly stealing is just an anoyance, he showing up and putting up a good fight is fun

It needs to be easier to fight them, maybe make they appear in random missions, with higher chance than stalker, even if its not possible to kill after a certain point of health he just disappears i dont know but again the fight would need to be somewhat difficult, and at the same time not ridicuosly long if you dont have good weapons, and not ridiculosly fast as with chroma. But if the fights are gonna take sometime the rewards need to be on par with the time spent, a 20-30 min fight to get a reward from one A rotation from a excavator isnt logical.

We have open worlds why there isnt like 3-4 lichs in the open world, kinda like mordor. Maybe even with imortality, the lich disapears after a first fight dropping some loot, even if its relics or kuva. just copy and paste mordor

I know we are in a first person shooter, but i dont know, just shooting, getting shoot at, and failing assassinations isnt as fun as a good sword fight or a good remnant boss, i still didnt fight one but they seem just like a wolf. maybe slower and dodgble attacks but stronger ones would be more fun, i dont know this seems complicated especially in warframe where some warframes will get one shoted others can face tank. Well damage in borderlands is kinda good but just like warframe if something gets a little stronger than what it should it gets impossible

lvl 70 enemies aren't really a threat for some frames, much higher ones too, at the same time  there is too many enemies to avoid bullets, either its possible to tank or die in seconds, maybe less but stronger ones, Those stronger ones will still get one shoot by some frames, in the end anything is easy except for frames without ways to survive, where everything is impossible, the kuva lich followers could be a little stronger maybe, they just feel like normal ones

edit: well the lvl 5 lich fights and enemies are kinda ok

lower level liches die kinda too fast but o boy that radiation procs that really makes the fight a mess kkk, awesome

Lvl 5 liches actually need some caution to kill. In theory maybe lower ones too, i dont know if its the quick thinking that bugs the game or if every time they do an attack picking the player im just close to not be killed, well its good anyway.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by pokpla
more feedback

[DarkMarkX]

13 minutes ago, ixidron92 said:

Sincerely, the Kuva lich system is very, very interesting but the implementation is an epic failure. The entire system is completely RNG dependent grind  for every single aspect of it, which looks like something you'd expect from a bad quality Chinese P2W MMO.

Honestly, that was a disaster. No matter what, people might agree or disagree about every single aspect of the update (the reworks, the new melees, Grendel, etc.) but everyone unanimously agrees the Kuva Lich is ludicrously grindy and unfulfilling thanks to its complete RNG dependency.

On average, it takes 24 missions to uncover the mods you need to kill the lich. 3-4 assassinations to get the combination unless you're very lucky or unlucky. 6-7 missions to get the kuva lich to spawn once. Then, you need to get the mods, which should take 2-4 relics per mod plus the kuva flood to get one relic. All of that, combined, at worst, can be 116 missions per lich and everything is already RNG dependent, and on top of it, you add an RNG weapon with RNG elements and RNG damage bonus, and the worst part is the next lich can have the same weapon. Trying to get all the different weapons is gonna be impossible.

Do you play your own game? Because I swear, if you were forced to do all that from start to finish without using dev tools or cheating, you wouldn't have shipped it in that state.

Agreed. The requiem investigation part is easily the worst aspect as well. Doing 25+ star chart missions, along with all the other stuff is a bit overkill, considering all you're going to get is a mastery fodder weapon at the end of it. Then you need to re-farm the relics+requiem mods over and over again, god forbid if you're even missing one mod, because you're probably going to need that specific one you're missing each time, while you get duplicates of others you may not need for a while.