Update 26: The Old Blood

[E7na]

RIP Zenistar 😞

[iBombMk2]

Thanks for the big update, but it should be postponed from beginning

[MacKerris]

wow what a horrible update

[MokutoBunshi]

Just started reading and this: 

"This system is meant to be challenging. It’s meant to be a threat. It’s meant to posit a vengeful and immortal enemy against you until you can decipher how to defeat them. It will demand your best gear and game knowledge! The Update notes will outline the essentials, the game will teach you the rest. Let’s begin, Tenno." Makes me hopeful, and I HOPE that you really mean that about the game knowledge... Time to read...

[Malechieh]

What happened to the 8 alerts you mentioned earlier in the day?

 

[GateCrasherSupernova]

Very disappointed with the update.

First thing. Key bindings not working properly. I'm going to give you guys a few days to fix these bugs, because they seem to always happen in your updates, and you always come through in the end.

Second thing. The Kuva Lich. I can tell you right now, as it stands, it might break the game for me. You're tying it exclusively to one type of mission - kuva siphon. I hate it. I think they're clunky and buggy and i avoid it unless i'm desperate for kuva, which is rare because i don't have a lot of rivens. And if i understand it correctly, this Lich thing is not something optional we can choose to do, but instead is forced on us, whether we like it or not. Well, i can tell you right now, if the choice is to start doing lots of kuva siphon missions or stop playing the game, i'll stop.

Third thing. The melee changes. It's a bit early to tell, but i can say this. Melee was in a pretty good place with the last update. I was excited about you reworking the melee combos, which in my opinion was the one thing most needing an improvement. So far, it's a huge disappointment. It's nothing like i envisioned. Melee feels more clunckier now. It's a huge step backwards. Or perhaps it's just me (keys not working properly as stated before). As it stands, you pretty much removed the fun and simplicity of the melee system. And i'm not even going to comment the nerfs.

In retrospect, i wish you could have used the time spent on this update, correcting the ever increasing bugs in Eidolon, that are reaching frustrating levels of annoyance.

[Hobie-wan]

3 hours ago, Pineapplecow said:

Can you add a way to mute the launcher

This probably got answered in the hours since I pulled up the thread, read the notes, downloaded, and was pulled away before I got back. I haven't read the eleventy billion pages past the first one. But in case it didn't...

You can do this with Windows. Click the speaker icon by the clock, choose mixer, and you can adjust the volume or mute any individual program you have running.

[Nastumi]

ok, so far that update is amazing except one little thing : nothing happens anymore when I keep the melee attack key pressed anymore. Like throwing the Sigma & Octantis shield, Redeemer dual shots, some combos (fists charged E attack was destroying any single target), Zenistar throw is now super short. 

So, will the pressed E combos will be back, or forever gone ? if so what will happen for those moves ? (and will we still be able to throw Sigma's shield ?)

[Ninjiii]

What an incredibly large amount of changes! Amazing job, well done and massive thanks. Now let's hope I will find it even more enjoyable than before 🙂

[Nephalem]

4 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Maiming Strike - Changes from an additive buff to a stacking buff, but base functionality increased 150%

Are you god dam serious?You can increase it to 500% it will change nothing! I barely get 1-2 orange crits now and a lot of yellows.Good job nerfing maiming mods and not the spin itself,i like the way you guiz worded this it almost sounds like EA or Bethesda...

[PlasmaPsychosis]

This update seems great! The Melee Combo changes are amazing and melee is just more fun now.

However...

There are three big things that I feel need to be addressed.

1) Primed Reach should really be +4 instead of +3. Right now, a lot of the weapon that were really good long weapons are just short of being still really good for their intented purpose. That is, being a long weapon. Other weapons still feel slightly too short as well, such as Fist weapons. This would be a minor change, but it would improve the new range standardization immensely. Also, regular Reach is basically useless now.

2) Heavy Attacks. They aren't worth using. Pure and simple. Even with Zenurik's combo efficiency, Heavy Attacks are too much cost for too little reward. Sure, they can burst mobs down relatively well, but they lower your DPS by too much to be worthwhile, especially with Blood Rush. They should just remove a flat amount of combo, around 20 to 40 would make it good. Considering the amount of time they take to charge, I feel that Heavy Attacks would also greatly benefit from having increased range. Not nescessary, but it would make them far more useful than they are now.

3) Condition Overload was nerfed far more than it needed to be. This mod has gone from something that will be occasionally used on already hilariously powerful weapons to something that will never be used. The damage it offers compared to simply putting a heat mod onto the weapon instead (btw, new Heat status proc? Absolutely wonderful.) is not worthwhile. The mod needs to either be applied at the end of damage calculation again, OR it needs to scale exponentially again.

This isn't a huge problem really, I just don't feel that having a cap of 220 is high enough. Sure, 12 stacks on Blood Rush is pretty good now, but considering the overall damage nerf that has happened as a result of CO and Blood Rush's toning down, I think this would be good compensation for late game damage output.

Overall? This update seems like a REALLY promising start. I just think these three main issues mean that melee will still deal considerably less damage than it did previously. Heavy Attacks taking away a flat amount of Combo is probably the most important change here, since they're currently in a state where using them is more punishing for the player than the enemey.

 

[AdvisorZ]

I spent about 1.5 hours reading all this and mentally analyzing it. For now, I can say one thing: Thank you. Tenno hungry, and they received a portion of the content.
You have done a great job (and as far as I know, you will have even more work). Of course, I will be angry because of upcoming bugs, errors, etc. But I am always angry, and this does not prevent me from thinking sensibly, so, for now - just thank you.
P.S I still can’t find a free program and so that it does not critically eat up the resources of my PC in order to record video with errors, etc. My pc is very very weak.

Edited November 1, 2019 by AdvisorZ

[LightSaviour98]

Naisu, thanks a bunch DE.
Now to wait 2 hours for the update to finish with cave man net. :feelsbadman:

[superdino880]

Yes I love it when RNG is the main decider on weather I can kill my kuva lich or not with mods that have limited uses 

[Sharkgoblin]

melee is confirmed garbage now

 

thx de

 

ok i did some tests on 165 corrupted heavy gunners

gunblades are poop now  rip redemeer prime rip sarpa

glaives too  but need more testing

machetes are good with sundering weave, sundering weave is really nice,  cyclone kraken is kinda S#&$ now. kinda sad about that

scythes - reaper prime, hate, are pretty good, reaping spiral is good, stalking fan is serviceable 

heavy blades - rending  crane is good now, tempo royale is okay, cleaving whirlwing is trash 

dual daggers - spinning needle is teh best of all three the other stances disappointing in terms of damage

i tested okina tho which is kinda poop but fang prime should be very good

dual swords stances are great 

single daggers are good for literally nothing now

nikanas are pretty nice, all stances do good damage and are pleasing to use

two handed nikanas....tatsu is alright

polearms- shimmering blights and bleeding willow are pretty good, twirling spire is still garbage

hammers- crushing ruin is great, shattering storm is terrible

swords - crimson dervish is good, but avoid move forward e mash combo, its S#&$ - vengeful revenant is S#&$- swooping falcon is S#&$ - iron phoenix is great

swords and shields -  eleventh storm is quite nice same for final harbinger, silva and aegis prime deals a LOT of damage

staves - flailing branch is whaveter, so its clashing forest

sparring are still garbage

tonfas - sovereign outcast is #*!%ing great so its gemini cross, ohma is lit af 

blade and whip - defiled snapdragon is alright

whips stances are bad

claws- vermillion storm is good. the other stances are okay. i used ripkas, ripkas is very bad, then i used venka prime, venka prime is good. i used relentless combination and it scales combo super fast- i was redcritting in seconds with both vermillion storm and malicious raptor , morale of the story. use venka prime, discard ripkas. 

rapiers- vulpine mask was good then and its even better now

heavy attacks are NOT worth using 

maiming strike is useless 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Sharkgoblin
me dumb

[NayzZak]

Really thanx  good job

[Waywreth]

My initial feedback -

Melee - seems ok.  More testing required.  You really nerfed maiming strike though.

Kuva Lich - great concept.  The fact you can buy the mods is a bit disappointing.  That's alot of grinding though.  I'm not sure how long I'm going to be doing this.

Grendel - highly disappointed.  I get all these cool mods, powers, and abilities (operator) and I can't use them.  How's that fun?

[Kboy2608]

4 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Dokrahm

Scythe

Damage increased from 68 to 308

Range increased from 1 to 1.8

Heavy Blade

Damage increased from 146 to 286

Now the scythe deal more dmg than the FRICKING HEAVY BLADE? I dont know if it's on purpose or simply stupid!

[Gendalph]

I tested melee for a bit and here are my initial impressions: it was balanced for enemies up to about level 80, so my tests against level 100 corrupted felt really underwhelming.

• New combos are good.
• Heavy attacks are not.
• Reach/Primed Reach need to be 2/4m up from 1.1/3m.
• Blood Rush is fine.
• Condition Overload: gimped, see below for explanation.
• Covert Lethality: gimped, 100% Finisher Damage is just not worth it.
• Block mods adding combo looks interesting (used Guardian Derision), waste of a mod slot in practice: this level of combo generation is just not worth the slot.

Now, about Condition Overload:

4 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

• Condition Overload - Now uses a stacking multiplier based on how many Status Effects are on the target at 120% damage per Status.
  • During this whole Melee rebalance, Condition Overload remained a persistent outlier. Since launch, it has had an unintended stacking mechanic, that nothing else uses in the game: it grew exponentially, making it too volatile to balance. We know there’s nothing worse than ‘how can you call this unintended’, so let’s explain the history: initially it did the stacking on final damage, which, as you know from previous changes, we have been trying to move away from. This is because this type of stacking makes for very hard to control damage progression, and tends to be very confusing as to which damage, Melee/Proc etc, applies where. This new version of the mod makes Condition Overload’s damage multiplication become equal to Pressure Point when the enemy has 1 Status applied, better than Primed Pressure Point at 2 Statuses applied, and from there it just grows and grows. Even though the maximum potential damage is lower now, we think it is still an extremely powerful Mod in its latest iteration.
  • The new ‘Lifted’ Status also counts for Condition Overload calculation. Revised Stances and the new Heavy Attack give reliable ways of applying Status to enemies, which greatly increases the reliability of Condition Overload
  •   Hide contents

     

 

While this looks fine and all, this is just a tiny part of the picture. Let's bring ALL the base damage into calculation:

• Old: (Base + Primed Pressure Point) x CO = (1 + 1.65) x 1.6ⁿ.
• New: Base + PPP + CO = 1 + 1.65 + 1.2 x n

At 3 statuses you get half the damage, here's the table damage multiplier (times):

Statuses	Old CO	New CO
1	4,24	3,85
2	6,78	5,05
3	10,85	6,25
4	17,37	7,45
5	27,79	8,65
6	44,46	9,85
7	71,14	11,05

Do you see a problem?

• 1 status - ok, we lost some damage
• 2 statuses - well, still manageable
• 3 statuses - nope
• 4 statuses - status builds, anyone?
• 5 statuses - dual wield? What's that?

I would understand capping CO at 3 or 4 (quad to 6.55 damage), but this? Kills the mod.

[GWLPG15GERMAN]

Sigma and octantis dont work i mean the trow

[Shadedraxe]

4 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Garuda’s Claws

• Parry Angle set to 60
• Range increased from 1 to 2.2
• Damage increased from 72 to 180 

Desert Wind

• Parry Angle set to 60
• Range increased from 1 to 1.2

Exalted Blade

• Parry Angle set to 60
• Range increased from 1 to 2.8
• Heavy Attacks added

Valkyr’s Claws

• Parry Angle set to 60
• Range increased from 0.5 to 1.7

Iron Staff

• Parry Angle set to 65
• Heavy Attacks added

Are exalted weapons still affected by the combo counter like atlas’s landslide and ash’s blade storm or are these abilities not getting their damage increased along with all of the melee weapons because...?

[TsarWolf]

Hey, great update but I have just one request. I would like to know how to throw the Wolf Sledge, as I am completely dumbfounded as to how with the new stance changes.

[Udoshi]

4 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

One of the bigger changes added to the Melee Rework: Phase 1 was the addition of fluid swapping between melee and Primary / Secondary Weapons. However, some players preferred the ability to manually block, making some of their builds less easy to manage. While we restored manual blocking for players playing ‘sword alone’, it wasn’t quite the same.  

 

You're right, its not the same!
WHen can we have RIght Click = always block instead of aim down sights? Melee flow changes were good, but I want to be able to BLOCK on command!

 

Step back imho!

[Xzorn]

4 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

We know there’s nothing worse than ‘how can you call this unintended’

 

Hmmm. No. It's more that it took you guys 3 years to fix.  Yep. Pretty sure that's worse.

[Udoshi]

1 minute ago, TsarWolf said:

Hey, great update but I have just one request. I would like to know how to throw the Wolf Sledge, as I am completely dumbfounded as to how with the new stance changes.

Looks like its alt-fire while its out.