If you're being told to play a mission Solo, that's a problem.

[Zahnrad]

I'm seeing it constantly, and more so with the new update posts are being flocked with "Just play Solo." like that is something to be proud of. Hazard a guess it's the same people who use the "well the item was free so you're not allowed to complain" argument.

If the superior method to play a Co-Op game is playing it Solo rather than in Co-Op that's a major problem and should be discussed rather than hidden under the rug. This isn't a jab at DE. But DE doesn't need its community making these kinds of excuses for them.

[Traumtulpe]

Why would you have to play solo?

[TARINunit9]

1 minute ago, Traumtulpe said:

Why would you have to play solo?

Only one Lich spawns at a time, and lots of players who have their Requiem mods ready to go are stuck matchmaking with players who don't. And inevitably the Lich for the second player spawns. And of course the second player has no intention on just letting their Lich kill them, that's bad game design. So the first player doesn't get to see their Lich spawn. They run onto the forums to shout at the second player "JUST LET YOUR LICH KILL YOU ZOMG!!!1"

And someone else tells the first player "just play solo"

And then Zahnny makes a thread about it, and then Traumtulpe asked for the context, and lastly I write this comment. I think I should stop now before we enter a recursive loop

[Traumtulpe]

2 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

JUST LET YOUR LICH KILL YOU ZOMG!!!1

Dude, you are an immortal, eternal, magic wielding void demon. Just let that poor lich have his hollow victory. You even get progress towards the next requiem hint.

[AnOldAlias]

14 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

I'm seeing it constantly, and more so with the new update posts are being flocked with "Just play Solo." like that is something to be proud of. Hazard a guess it's the same people who use the "well the item was free so you're not allowed to complain" argument.

If the superior method to play a Co-Op game is playing it Solo rather than in Co-Op that's a major problem and should be discussed rather than hidden under the rug. This isn't a jab at DE. But DE doesn't need its community making these kinds of excuses for them.

I agree. You're supposed to be rewarded for playing with other players, and they've taken out what little reward they had to begin with FOR doing so in this system. Hope they change it back to what it was, even if it was supposedly a glitch. Hope they keep at it adding in incentive / more rewards for doing thrall missions / liches, it's desperately needed.

[-AiLuoLi-]

There's co-op in this game?

[No1NParticular31]

12 minutes ago, AnOldAlias said:

I agree. You're supposed to be rewarded for playing with other players, and they've taken out what little reward they had to begin with FOR doing so in this system. Hope they change it back to what it was, even if it was supposedly a glitch. Hope they keep at it adding in incentive / more rewards for doing thrall missions / liches, it's desperately needed.

THIS ^^^

That was one of the main reasons to farm Thralls in PUGs was that if their Lich spawned and they tested a mod setup you also got bonus murmur. This made you want to be there and to assist the other payers to ensure they got the test in. By taking out this bonus there is no reason to play in PUG and if you do, there is no reason to help the other player with their Lich.

Combine this with the fact that if they successfully defeat their Lich it causes the Thralls to stop spawning for EVERYONE in the group and what you end up with is that players now have a vested interest in their team mates FAILING. Making one players success mean punishment for team mates is the opposite of Co-Op. Seriously, why would anyone help anyone else with the way it is now.

[kevoisvevo]

10 minutes ago, No1NParticular31 said:

THIS ^^^

That was one of the main reasons to farm Thralls in PUGs was that if their Lich spawned and they tested a mod setup you also got bonus murmur. This made you want to be there and to assist the other payers to ensure they got the test in. By taking out this bonus there is no reason to play in PUG and if you do, there is no reason to help the other player with their Lich.

Combine this with the fact that if they successfully defeat their Lich it causes the Thralls to stop spawning for EVERYONE in the group and what you end up with is that players now have a vested interest in their team mates FAILING. Making one players success mean punishment for team mates is the opposite of Co-Op. Seriously, why would anyone help anyone else with the way it is now.

DE isn't exactly well known for their balancing or rather they are very infamous for it. give it 3-4 months before they sort out the kuva lich thing

[T.Hoagie]

3 hours ago, kevoisvevo said:

DE isn't exactly well known for their balancing or rather they are very infamous for it. give it 3-4 months before they sort out the kuva lich thing

They need to speed that up, I'm already at a point where I don't want anything to do with the Lich system as is from poor design choices. And with all these people demanding punishments on those who don't play as they demand and generally being quite unpleasent...I'm tempted to just leave Warframe behind.

[Aldain]

34 minutes ago, T.Hoagie said:

And with all these people demanding punishments on those who don't play as they demand and generally being quite unpleasent...I'm tempted to just leave Warframe behind.

The people demanding punishments are a very loud minority if that counts for anything.

Most other players are just wondering what DE was smoking with the auto-death thing.

[0_The_F00l]

I made a suggestion to resolve this. 

I believe it's suitable to the issue we are having. 

[T.Hoagie]

3 hours ago, Aldain said:

The people demanding punishments are a very loud minority if that counts for anything.

Most other players are just wondering what DE was smoking with the auto-death thing.

I agree with you, on the other players. It's just holy crap man, this system is already pretty poorly designed. So much so that I question why I should bother with it at all, and I was kind of excited at first, I mean Shadow of Mordor's Nemesis system in Warframe?,that would have been awesome!. I love Shadow of Mordor, minus the disappointing final boss "fight".

But I can't even call this a lazy copy, its poorly designed and thought out, and it mostly punishes you through massive amounts of RNG and guess work, how could you logically collect the murmurs and NOT know the order they go in as a result?, why do you have to guess?.

Vocal minority or not, they really leave a sour note in the air about things and compounds it.

[Aldain]

3 minutes ago, T.Hoagie said:

I agree with you, on the other players. It's just holy crap man, this system is already pretty poorly designed. So much so that I question why I should bother with it at all, and I was kind of excited at first, I mean Shadow of Mordor's Nemesis system in Warframe?,that would have been awesome!. I love Shadow of Mordor, minus the disappointing final boss "fight".

But I can't even call this a lazy copy, its poorly designed and thought out, and it mostly punishes you through massive amounts of RNG and guess work, how could you logically collect the murmurs and NOT know the order they go in as a result?, why do you have to guess?.

Vocal minority or not, they really leave a sour note in the air about things and compounds it.

No argument there.

I mean Shadow of War/Mordor had a simple QTE used for executions and avoiding dying when downed, honestly if they would have just had that most of the problems of people not interacting with their Lich wouldn't have happened because a chance at failure is still better than absolute failure.

Overall the issue I see with it stems from the lack of player agency in how they deal with their Lich which creates the issue of people ignoring them because it is the only choice they have other than "die because the game says so".

Of course I'm equally disheartened by that loud minority not being able to get it through their LITERAL TITANIUM SKULLS that solving the actual problem is better than implementing idiotic punishments and deflecting from the problem with "It's just a revive bruh" or some nonsense.

[T.Hoagie]

3 hours ago, Aldain said:

No argument there.

I mean Shadow of War/Mordor had a simple QTE used for executions and avoiding dying when downed, honestly if they would have just had that most of the problems of people not interacting with their Lich wouldn't have happened because a chance at failure is still better than absolute failure.

Overall the issue I see with it stems from the lack of player agency in how they deal with their Lich which creates the issue of people ignoring them because it is the only choice they have other than "die because the game says so".

Of course I'm equally disheartened by that loud minority not being able to get it through their LITERAL TITANIUM SKULLS that solving the actual problem is better than implementing idiotic punishments and deflecting from the problem with "It's just a revive bruh" or some nonsense.

Yeah, I can't begin to tell you how many times I was brought down in SoM only to barely save myself. Which made the fighting all the better cause I could literally go "HAHAH!, you thought you could kill me!?, but I am too awesome for you!"

Yeah, that screeching stuff kills me, on a basic level they are demanding that you play how they want or suffer the consequences, instead of addressing the reasons why people may not want to pointlessly get themselves killed, or level up their Lich, etc etc.

DE needs to just overhaul this system and fast, not half a year from now, not after the whatever next update is gonna be. I'm almost scared with what they will do with Railjack at this point.

[Aldain]

Just now, T.Hoagie said:

DE needs to just overhaul this system and fast, not half a year from now, not after the whatever next update is gonna be. I'm almost scared with what they will do with Railjack at this point.

I actually have a feeling that they'll pull through as long as they listen to the actual constructive feedback rather than the destructive or punitive feedback.

I don't think DE was quite expecting the huge backlash that they got with this, which is also why they are pumping out hotfixes like crazy.

Granted these changes have been hit and miss, but at least they've been trying, even through they are kind of stumbling around currently.

[T.Hoagie]

3 hours ago, Aldain said:

I actually have a feeling that they'll pull through as long as they listen to the actual constructive feedback rather than the destructive or punitive feedback.

I don't think DE was quite expecting the huge backlash that they got with this, which is also why they are pumping out hotfixes like crazy.

Granted these changes have been hit and miss, but at least they've been trying, even through they are kind of stumbling around currently.

I hope you're right, I don't like sitting back and going "Y'know, this isn't worth my time" in a game I have so much time and other stuff invested in.

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

Update not on console yet... but I'll be damned if I get killed by lich and stay around. Host or not. Especially if I don't have mods to kill it. I don't mind it leveling up, just not by killing me. 

Hate me all you want, I'm out with that "Peace Ninjas".

[vanaukas]

what if you kill your current lich and then dont kill the larvling again anymore? Its a thing now

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 hours ago, Zahnny said:

I'm seeing it constantly, and more so with the new update posts are being flocked with "Just play Solo." like that is something to be proud of. Hazard a guess it's the same people who use the "well the item was free so you're not allowed to complain" argument.

If the superior method to play a Co-Op game is playing it Solo rather than in Co-Op that's a major problem and should be discussed rather than hidden under the rug. This isn't a jab at DE. But DE doesn't need its community making these kinds of excuses for them.

I'd be interested in seeing you cite specific circumstances surrounding when you heard that advice given.

It's not that I don't believe you insomuch as it is that the bulk of the times I have seen that advice given. the intent has been to meet the need of a specific player's preferences or expectations.

There is no repeatable content that can't/shouldn't be done in a group but there are tons of weapons, powers, mission goals, and playstyles whose interactions are better suited to a solo setting as opposed to in groups.

Do please cite some specifics.

 

[Test-995]

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Only one Lich spawns at a time, and lots of players who have their Requiem mods ready to go are stuck matchmaking with players who don't. And inevitably the Lich for the second player spawns. And of course the second player has no intention on just letting their Lich kill them, that's bad game design. So the first player doesn't get to see their Lich spawn. They run onto the forums to shout at the second player "JUST LET YOUR LICH KILL YOU ZOMG!!!1"

And someone else tells the first player "just play solo"

And then Zahnny makes a thread about it, and then Traumtulpe asked for the context, and lastly I write this comment. I think I should stop now before we enter a recursive loop

Eh, i see more people saying "just play solo" against someone who don't kill liches.

[IamLoco]

1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I made a suggestion to resolve this. 

I believe it's suitable to the issue we are having. 

This would require the players to actively setup their Parazons with those denial mods. It would only lead to the same situation as the one we have now, trying to explain other players how to not mess up everyone elses game.

The problem needs to be addressed at the root, not at the top. DE has to come up with a "what if / then" solution that does not require a player to perform a certain action.

[rand0mname]

I have no idea how DE can solve this problem without turning Lich into honorable member of G3, Zanuka and Juggernaut circus.

Giving other players an ability to interrupt execution by QTE (or lots of bullets)? I am not sure it will work in PUGs well. Maybe if successful interruption will give other players 10 murmurs too?

I will probably just avoid PUGs if I do not have at least two mods ready for testing.

[Excelion-Skyclaw]

Liches are supposed to be big *personal* enemy, its natural to want to face them alone, if you need help you can always group with other people and take care of your lich together (Yes, if they also have a crazy fan, it might take longer but - did we reached the point where we complain about extra 15 mins of missions?). Otherwise in random groups is ok to have random liches spawn, even if the people can't defeat them. 

Also dying to your lich so other players can have theirs is bad for you, as the thing is gonna level and steal more and be bigger pain later on. Group missions are not the best place to finish your 'personal' lich (unless again you're playing with friends). And if there was way to remove your own and have others spawn there without any penalty, it would just devalue the whole experience. 

[(PSN)Dishinshoryuken]

If you look at what the game started as, it was a SOLO adventure. Hek, you start the game in SOLO mode and most of the main story is SOLO. It is not a bad suggestion as it is the way the game is really meant to be played....if you want it done your way.

Co-op means that you are actually cooperating with others to make sure things are being done where everyone is involved. One player killing everything while others are left just barely getting anything is NOT co-op. One player wanting someone to rush their lich kill so they can get to theirs is NOT co-op. And the fact that players want to punish another player for not dealing with their lich is up there with a KICK button, which is not okay in any way.

Are you looking for a coop experience or just a way to get more without caring about your fellow players? Cuz it seems that demanding others do things your way when in PUB is not cooperating but more of looking out for yourself in a 4 player game....which does give merit to go SOLO.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

OP except they're not being told to play solo unless they're making a stupid complaint. They don't have to play solo, they have to STOP EXPECTING everyone to play the way they want them to.