Amesha in Railjack has become the "Itzal of open worlds pre-blink-rework"

[Rasdan]

Crewships are quite annoying tbh. They stay out of the crowd, they're hard to find among a lot of fighter ships. And they're HURT.

If not because of Amesha's 1, you'd probably die in 1-3 shots.

 

Of course, Amesha's skillset is a godsend on railjack missions.

• Amesha 1 for Survivability (Works like Nova 1). It reduces 1 charge per one enemy hit on you 100% damage reduction.
• Amesha 2 for guarding the stationary railjack from projectiles, it also heals archwing.
• Amesha 3 is an OP version of Slowva. No need to recast it too. Once you reach gunner level 8 (and ability efficiency mod), you just cast and forget. It gives gunners in railjacks a cheap way to shoot.
• Amesha 4 is a cheap "Hunter adrenaline" type of ability. It works even when Amesha 3 channeling is active.

 

So i asked DE have these solutions:

• Reduce Crewship Damage
• Add a Projectile Speed mod for Archguns and Railjack (Avionics). Although there is one railjack weapon that has almost a "hitscan" weapon, but other weapons get left out.
• Slow the speed of some fighter planes, some of them move too fast it's hard to aim.
• Either nerf Amesha, or buff other archwings (make an railjack exclusive stats per se, just how archguns have different stats outside archwing missions)

 

I already had my feedback on DE regarding this problem. I wonder about your opinions about it.

[BDMblue]

Of course it’s the go to archwing. It’s so OP broken why would you use anything else. It’s always been this way. The JV raid same thing 1 of these outside playing soccer and just ignoring anything because nothing can kill it. 

Only thing I’ll say about it in rail jack is now it can at lest die.

[Toppien]

different tools for different jobs, is it really such a bad thing?

itzal can make itself invisible

odonata has the frontal shield and the flares

and the big one that i dont remember its name has the smoke

amesha is just the most meta for this particular game-play dude

 

 

[punish_me]

7 минут назад, Toppien сказал:

itzal can make itself invisible

odonata has the frontal shield and the flares

and the big one that i dont remember its name has the smoke

Crewship doesn't care. It hits invisible, oneshots bubble and ignores flares.

[Jarriaga]

Amesha has not received a single patch, update, or balance pass ever since it was introduced in 2016. If DE does something now, it would be the biggest prime example of DE introducing something into the game, leaving it completely broken but not concerned because it's not widely used or popular unless the game itself introduces something else that makes it extremely relevant without a single adjustment.

I don't think they'll rework the other Archwings. They would have done so for Empyrean's release if that was a consideration as I'm having an extremely hard time believing they did not encounter this problem while testing Empyrean Archwing combat unless all testing was done using god mode.

I think Amesha will be nerfed, and a general AW balance pass will not happen until modular Archwings are released sometime next year.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Jarriaga

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

4 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Amesha has not received a single patch, update, or balance pass ever since it was introduced in 2016. If DE does something now, it would be the biggest prime example of DE introducing something into the game, leaving it completely broken but not concerned because it's not widely used or popular unless the game itself introduces something else that makes it extremely relevant without a single adjustment.

I don't think they'll rework the other Archwings. They would have done so for Empyrean's release if that was a consideration as I'm having an extremely hard time believing they did not encounter this problem while testing Empyrean Archwing combat unless all testing was done using god mode.

I think Amesha will be nerfed, and a general AW balance pass will not happen until modular Archwings are released sometime next year.

we also have more archwings coming aka modular 

[Jarriaga]

1 minute ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

we also have more archwings coming aka modular

Yes, which is why I mentioned I don't think a general AW balance pass will happen until these new modular AWs are released.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

Yes, which is why I mentioned I don't think a general AW balance pass will happen until these new modular AWs are released.

kind of dread it 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Toppien said:

different tools for different jobs, is it really such a bad thing?

Nothing wrong with that, but Amesha is pretty much the only viable option if you don't want to get instakilled.

[FollowTheFaceless]

The nerf is nigh! All archwings MUST SUCK at this mode and die from one shot!

[Tellakey]

41 minutes ago, BDMblue said:

It’s so OP broken why would you use anything else.

Warframe in a nutshell.

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

...I think we all know what this means.

Enjoy it while it lasts, brothers.

[Jarriaga]

55 minutes ago, punish_me said:

Crewship doesn't care. It hits invisible, oneshots bubble and ignores flares.

It's like a space honey badger.

[bad4youLT]

Or you know , the inevitable nerf hammer .

DE does not speak in language of balance but rather tall poppy cutter syndrome.

[Enexemander]

1 hour ago, punish_me said:

Crewship doesn't care. It hits invisible, oneshots bubble and ignores flares.

Well, they're projectile explosive missiles. 

If it sees you, shoots a missile to your location, and you go invisible... so what? It's still shooting the missiles to the same spot, right?

Bubbles are great for small arms fire, but missiles blow up. Ever used a grattler on a shielded enemy? The go splat.

You can dodge the crewship missiles in the Railjack if you see them coming. It's a lot easier in archwing. 

[Rasdan]

6 minutes ago, Enexemander said:

You can dodge the crewship missiles in the Railjack if you see them coming. It's a lot easier in archwing. 

 

Emphasis on dodge.

Problem is, Crewship tends to stay in a distance, and it's hard to indicate where it is. Even when cephalon cy warns of incoming Crewship, you just don't know where the missiles come from.

[ExcaliburUmbra]

I heard that you can actually shoot the crewship missiles down with Railjack turrets, but I haven’t really tested it. If that’s actually the case and the same goes for Archguns then it might make dealing with them a bit more bearable.

1 hour ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

we also have more archwings coming aka modular 

I do wonder how we will access these, and what the lore behind them will be. Mainly since their stylings greatly resemble the restored “Old War” items featured in the Empyrean Grand Bundle.

[Rasdan]

9 minutes ago, ExcaliburUmbra said:

I heard that you can actually shoot the crewship missiles down with Railjack turrets, but I haven’t really tested it. If that’s actually the case and the same goes for Archguns then it might make dealing with them a bit more bearable.

That would be a ramsled. a big missle that has grineers in it. If it hits, grineers will spawn inside your railjack.

[Lord_Dio_Brando]

You can dodge long range orange rockets on railjack with one perk and you can shoot down crew pods thats cool yeah
But nothig you can do about crewships second weapon unless you go there and kill the gunner

But the op was about amesha and i am not kinda suprised about it beig most picket archwing for now, i am kinda surprised abot DE making same mistake every time.

[Aldain]

26 minutes ago, ExcaliburUmbra said:

I do wonder how we will access these, and what the lore behind them will be.

I expect a comical slog of grinding for items and standing in a new syndicate with little to no reason other than "Hey this person can make you a custom Archwing out of 3 parts".

[BornWithTeeth]

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

Amesha has not received a single patch, update, or balance pass ever since it was introduced in 2016. If DE does something now, it would be the biggest prime example of DE introducing something into the game, leaving it completely broken but not concerned because it's not widely used or popular unless the game itself introduces something else that makes it extremely relevant without a single adjustment.

I don't think they'll rework the other Archwings. They would have done so for Empyrean's release if that was a consideration as I'm having an extremely hard time believing they did not encounter this problem while testing Empyrean Archwing combat unless all testing was done using god mode.

I think Amesha will be nerfed, and a general AW balance pass will not happen until modular Archwings are released sometime next year.

I said this earlier. Here, let me be obnoxious and quote myself:

 

"DE have put themselves into an awkward situation there, really.

Basically, one Archwing is brokenly overpowered. The Amesha is an immortal god-machine which cannot be destroyed, and which can protect any objective. So long as you keep blowing energy on things, you are immune to damage because any damage you take will just be turned into energy, you also have a swarm of drones making you immune to damage, and you have a big globe inside of which you cannot be hit by bullets, because the globe takes those bullets and makes them into healing anyway. So, the only way for enemies to attack you is by hitting you with Status effects to bypass your bullshi- oh wait, no, your third ability makes you and your allies immune to Status effects, slows all enemies, and costs energy so you can keep it and your 4 running at the same time.

Also, the Amesha is faster and tankier than the Odonata Prime, infinitely tankier than the Itzal and barely any slower, and the Elytron is over there pretending to flex for the camera but secretly quaking for fear the Amesha will look and and just delicately sneer.

 

So, DE! Here are your choices:

A) Make modular Archwings less powerful than the Amesha. No-one will use them. They will be built and levelled for, appropriately enough in this thread, the Mastery.

B) Make modular Archwings as powerful or more so than the Amesha, meaning that Archwing diversity will not improve and people will just pick the components which allow them to not get hilariously one-shot by enemy crew ships..

C) Bite the bullet, do what you should have done before you even released the damned thing, and nerf the Amesha."

[Yamazuki]

1 hour ago, Rasdan said:

 

Emphasis on dodge.

Problem is, Crewship tends to stay in a distance, and it's hard to indicate where it is. Even when cephalon cy warns of incoming Crewship, you just don't know where the missiles come from.

They're fairly big and very loud compared to the sounds other ships make, the missiles are also noticeable and not practically invisible unlike other insta-death attacks from the game.

Either way, archwings aren't really needed once the Railjack gets upgraded, main issues are how low the stats start compared to enemy stats. I know people like saying it's the same as starter Warframe+MK1 weapons, but it isn't. When you start the game, enemies have low hp/damage values too, and you aren't being instantly killed so often until you progress pretty far in. The other issue would be all the people that rushed straight to Veil with their completely stock railjacks, and Amesha actually gets blown up pretty easily with poor positioning and not paying attention to stacks on 1 or energy pool to avoid dying instantly, and relying on 2 slows the run down dramatically. Even if they nerf Amesha, if they want the future archwings to be useful at Veil, archwings as a whole are going to need ways to deal with all the damage there.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Yamazuki

[PookieNumnums]

Itzals drones help mitigate dmg. And its invis is fairly cheap, if you wanna hide and try to pick off enemies. The issue with that though, is damage fall off. 

[Lokidus_Prime]

3 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

I said this earlier. Here, let me be obnoxious and quote myself:

 

"DE have put themselves into an awkward situation there, really.

Basically, one Archwing is brokenly overpowered. The Amesha is an immortal god-machine which cannot be destroyed, and which can protect any objective. So long as you keep blowing energy on things, you are immune to damage because any damage you take will just be turned into energy, you also have a swarm of drones making you immune to damage, and you have a big globe inside of which you cannot be hit by bullets, because the globe takes those bullets and makes them into healing anyway. So, the only way for enemies to attack you is by hitting you with Status effects to bypass your bullshi- oh wait, no, your third ability makes you and your allies immune to Status effects, slows all enemies, and costs energy so you can keep it and your 4 running at the same time.

Also, the Amesha is faster and tankier than the Odonata Prime, infinitely tankier than the Itzal and barely any slower, and the Elytron is over there pretending to flex for the camera but secretly quaking for fear the Amesha will look and and just delicately sneer.

 

So, DE! Here are your choices:

A) Make modular Archwings less powerful than the Amesha. No-one will use them. They will be built and levelled for, appropriately enough in this thread, the Mastery.

B) Make modular Archwings as powerful or more so than the Amesha, meaning that Archwing diversity will not improve and people will just pick the components which allow them to not get hilariously one-shot by enemy crew ships..

C) Bite the bullet, do what you should have done before you even released the damned thing, and nerf the Amesha."

What about the possibility of option D) tweak the other archwings so they have some sort of survivability/counter measures that can be useful in Railjack missions as well as making adjustments to the crewships' gunfire to allow for those archwing tweaks - namely, being able to use certain archwing abilities to throw off locked on projectiles which doesn't presently work. Hell, maybe option E) even give the Railjack the a Battle/Tactical Avionic to give some sort of protection to players out in archwing, or a combination of the two.  Point being, there is more potential solutions than those that result in nerfs / lack of diversity. 

[GPrime96]

5 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

If DE does something now, it would be the biggest prime example of DE introducing something into the game, leaving it completely broken but not concerned because it's not widely used or popular unless the game itself introduces something else that makes it extremely relevant without a single adjustment.

Octavia would disagree.