I have a question about "New War", i "MUST" upgrade my railjack to play it?

[DoomFruit]

On 2019-12-28 at 12:39 AM, Ham_Grenabe said:

Unsure. You’ll almost certainly need to complete the new questlet to get there, so doing Railjack stuff is required. However, it’s unclear if you personally will need aN upgraded Railjack, or if you can just group up and do it. 

That's what I did. I got the blueprint purely by doing pug missions (the parts, on the other hand, don't actually exist). My railjack doesn't even have Mk1 gear, it's all starter stuff. I don't see the point in wasting a lot of resources to build stuff that's going to become obsolete almost instantly.

In any case, the best railjack loadout is a good Archwing.

Edited December 30, 2019 by DoomFruit

[SerpentorPrime]

Well the glaring misunderstanding is the the "new war" is to be a mission. 

As Steve has said on stream, its in the works to be a living war. An evolving setting based within the origin system map tiles and origin proximas, so yes access to a railjack would be advised. 

 

However that being said its not going to be a simple push through the story on minimum MR with brute force like previous story quests, you will need levelled gear including archwing and railjack to progress efficiently. 

[Kaotyke]

Imagine this: Chains of Harrow, the final part.

Could you finish that fight with your non-amp, 100 HP, draw energy from a 1 energy pool Operator?

Yes. Many actually did that. And it was a pain in the @$$.

The Sacrifice, Umbra fight:

Could you finish that fight with your non-amp, 100 HP, draw energy from a 1 energy pool Operator?

I dont know how many did that, but yes: it is possible. But it would be a pain in the @$$. I know it was, I did it once to test it by taking out every Focus and the Amp out of the Operator, but I still had my 2 Energy pools and 250HP so I still had an easier time than someone with 1 E.Pool and no Amp.

Now, think on those quests and imagine:

What if, WHAT IF, you had some measure of upgrades in the Operator? A good Amp, more than 100HP, 2 different energy pools to draw power from?

Now, I want you do substitue "Operator" with "Railjack", "Amps" with "Components/Armaments", "HP/Energy Pool" with "Avionics" and "Chains of Harrow/The Sacrifice" with "Future Quests".

There's your answer.

Now its your choice: Do you want an easy time or feel pain in your @$$ (not the good kind, the one where you ate a lot of Carolina Reaper the day before)?

Edited December 30, 2019 by Kaotyke

[Prexades]

vor einer Stunde schrieb DoomFruit:

In any case, the best railjack loadout is a good Archwing.

Ah, one of the try-hard-wing advocates.

[Ryusuta]

Great. More arbitrarily gatekept content.

[(PSN)Eluminary]

I'm 99% sure that if you do the clan research and just upgrade with those things, which have pretty low costs, I'm betting you'll be absolutely fine for any of the quest content of the new war.

 

[HugintheCrow]

Just now, (PS4)Eluminary said:

I'm 99% sure that if you do the clan research and just upgrade with those things, which have pretty low costs, I'm betting you'll be absolutely fine for any of the quest content of the new war.

 

I got all vanilla mk3 stuff from dojo installed (because I refuse to engage with the random-rolled system). It's already very powerful with only a few of the good avionics, so I agree with you.

[DoomFruit]

40 minutes ago, Prexades said:

Ah, one of the try-hard-wing advocates.

It's much, MUCH easier to get a decent AW loadout than it is to get a decent Railjack loadout. I'm ranking things not only on their capabilities, but their availability.

[Kaotyke]

28 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

Comparing operator to railjack is not fair though. There is absolutely zero rng involved in getting a good operator amp or focus points.

But if you want that vidar reactor mk3 with good rolls or those avionics you need to not make your ship feel like wet paper you must hard pray to RNGesus and probably sacrifice a couple of goats too.

Its the same idea: Either you put time to upgrade it or you dont.

Those who wished to "forget" the Operator existed and didnt put any time on them found themselves going through harder times when doing progession that needed them. While those who did are breezing through it.

Railjack, this game in general actually, will have you struggling if you dont take time to get better gear. RNG or not.

[White_Matter]

If it is anything like Veil or beyond, then the answer is a big "Yes."

[HugintheCrow]

1 hour ago, Kaotyke said:

Could you finish that fight with your non-amp, 100 HP, draw energy from a 1 energy pool Operator?

Yes. Many actually did that. And it was a pain in the @$$.

I don't understand how is that "pain in the @$$"?

There was no fail state for that "fight", no matter how much health your operator would have, you had infinite respawns and would lose no progress whatsoever when dying.

"Oh no, it took me 5 seconds instead of one" is not exactly what I would qualify as "pain in the @$$".

Now, opposed to that, Railjack DOES in fact have a fail state (as hard as it is to reach it).

[Ham_Grenabe]

2 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

That's what I did. I got the blueprint purely by doing pug missions (the parts, on the other hand, don't actually exist). My railjack doesn't even have Mk1 gear, it's all starter stuff. I don't see the point in wasting a lot of resources to build stuff that's going to become obsolete almost instantly.

In any case, the best railjack loadout is a good Archwing.

Likewise—I did the quest as part of a pub team. The Skidoo parts I just bought for plat. I’ll happily pay someone else to watch the anomaly clock.

[Prexades]

vor einer Stunde schrieb DoomFruit:

It's much, MUCH easier to get a decent AW loadout than it is to get a decent Railjack loadout. I'm ranking things not only on their capabilities, but their availability.

Ok, there are a lot of misconceptions here. First you dont need a fully equipped RJ yourself. In a group you are always using the hosts one and there are already plenty of people with near full upgrades and looking for crew. Second the Erra quest only requires you to visit the sentient ship when it appears there is almost zero RJ activity required.

[Kaotyke]

2 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

But it's not. If you don't get lucky you'll never progress in Railjack. It's possible for a mk3 reactor to be worse than a mk2 and it's a 2% drop.

And I want to know why are you focusing so much on this Reactor? I dont have one. You dont need have this specific reactor to progress. I use a Zekti with +45 Avionics, which is still lower than the Sigma MK3's +50 and I still do fine. Having one is not needed, its nice, but not needed.

4 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

While operator it's a fixed and steady amount. Once you get that amp you got it. It's always the same. Hell you just need to get a rank 1 amp to make those quests much easier and that doesn't take long at all to do.

And what of the Focus? You know there is a layer of RNG in getting it, right? The Focus Lens, which you need to go through the RNG of the bounties to get. You cant make Greater Lens without them. You cant make Eidolon Lens without Greater Lens, which need Normal lens. You cant make Lua Lens without Eidolon Lens, which need Greater Lens, which need Normal Lens, which are gotten in the RNG of bounties.

There is another: Materials, you need to have the RNG to get the right materials, to have the mining spots be the either Ore or Gem depending on what you want, you need RNG to get the exact Ore/Gem you want. And the Cetus Wisps. The damn Cetus Wisps.

If you say you need the Rank 1 Amp to make those quests much easier, then you dont need the Vidar Reactor to make future Railjack required Quests easier.

[PookieNumnums]

5 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

Bumping to say that one thing I overlooked is that players can be taxied to the Anomaly if they don't have enough a high enough Intrinsic skill to enter Veil. Did this today for someone with similar levels of enthusiasm for Railjack who wanted to hit the quest point. 

This tbh. 

You can get taxid through it, to activate the "questlet" as it was referred to.

Also, the devs have been quite clear that the new war is a war and wars dont happen overnight. Meaning, its likely going to be some community effort along the line of razorback and fomorians and plague star and ghouls. 

I wouldnt be surprised if the phases of the new war arent rolled out in a fashion reminiscent of old operations. 

In which case, you will likely be able to accompany someone if you dont have host access. But either way, to be on the safe side id hit a rank 7 intrinsic and get some decent gear. Why? Because hosts tend to experience less bugs from what i understand. 

[HeartPurity]

I think as long as you got a ship which can drive you there, then is fine and also you can always hitchhiking. 

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

And what of the Focus? You know there is a layer of RNG in getting it, right? 

Yeesh! Dont remind me of that crap.

Picked the wrong school at first, decided I wanted to focus (no pun intended) on another. Ground my brains out trying to get a lens from bounties when the right bounty reward was up. Then I tried to get some more so I could cover all my equipped items with that specific one. That was a major grind that overshadows anything in RJ I think. Atleast in RJ we dont need a specific house to get through the content or progress our skills. Plus all the lens grinding was done in the most trivial content, in RJ we face things that are actually fairly interesting to fight.

As for OP's questions. I'd kit the RJ out if I were you. Atleast get some decent avionics, some vidar guns, zetki shield+engine (easy to get), then either buy a MK3 reactor from dojo or keep grinding for a Vidar one as end of mission drops. Take a peek at the wiki for possible stat roll ranges on the armaments and components so you dont go and repair the lowest rolls atleast. Easiest way to farm it is by riding along on someone elses RJ. If you havent done anyhting yet just clear each earth and saturn node as a crewmember, dump 7 points into enginner and head off to the veil. Once there, spend your skill points between tactical and gunner, tactical will give you a teleport function early on to quickly get back to the ship, gunner will give you 360 degree cannon control early on. After you have those you can either play around as the engi+gunner on the ship or be out and about doing objectives since you'll be able to teleport back to ship when you want. Stick to signing up as crewman for aslong as possible, that way you dont have to worry about upgrading your railjack until you have the wreckage you wanna repair and the mats to do it.

[(PSN)Double991]

Considering it's a war I'm expecting at least a few space battles so you might want to get started. 

It's just like how the people who neglected Fortuna couldn't do Profit Taker. Don't be one of them.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

On 2019-12-27 at 8:33 PM, Kaiser_Suoh said:

I want to know if i must "play" railjack mode for New War.

Is not sarcasm. My raijack is lv 0.

What exactly is the problem with actually playing the new mode? Why would you not want to play it? 

You can easily hitch rides with others, and once you get a little way in, you will find that the teams aren't entirely full of scrubs who don't know what they are doing. (Not saying that you won't find people who don't know what they are doing, but it's a lot rarer.) 

You'll get resources, upgrades, experience. You will be able to level up, and build your own ship. 

 

So why wouldn't you give Railjack a try? 

[Prexades]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb DoomFruit:

It's much, MUCH easier to get a decent AW loadout than it is to get a decent Railjack loadout. I'm ranking things not only on their capabilities, but their availability.

No, it is not. The difference is that with Archwing has a few years of headstart on getting parts, building and leveling gear.

[Kaotyke]

40 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

The first amp doesn't require that much resources. You can relativley easily get those specially now that the fortuna mining stick let's you get all without even investing into cetus stuff.

As for material RNG well guess what. Every single item in the game to be built has that. Including Railjack. Except railjack farm for those is like 10 times worse.

Wisps are terrible but they don't need much for the first parts.

Considering lenses guess what? I farmed those using basic ones ( which are absurdly easy to get now compared to sortie only back then ) and adaro spin 2 win without having access to greater lenses and maxed out my zenurik pretty easily. So no you can do that with basic stuff.

I notice that you are sidestepping what I said about RNG not being in Focus and material gathering, downplaying everything.

41 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

But the parts are needed to make your ship not feel like tissue paper and to you know actually use the ship which is the point of those missions to begin with and even with all MK3 gear your ship just feels slightly ok. But that's solely coz I got lucky on a Vidar reactor that let me crank those mods out which are absolutely a must if you want to actually deal damage and not have your turrets overheat by just pressing the fire button.

I'm starting to think you are flexing your Vidar Reactor now that you said you have it...

All it does is give Capacity, for the ship to survive it needs Avionics. And the Sigma MK3 is more than enough to make the ship at least survive.

47 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

Considering you need to get to veil to start the new Quest it's safe to assume DE wants you to use Mk3 gear to do sentient stuff once that is in the game. Hell we are probably gonna get even high tiers by then. And technically you don't even need railjack to do railjack missions. Just park it away and use your archwing. At least till DE nerfs Amesha.

That has nothing to do with the RNG thing we are talking about, but okay.

[DoomFruit]

2 hours ago, Prexades said:

No, it is not. The difference is that with Archwing has a few years of headstart on getting parts, building and leveling gear.

The community's current favourite for AW in railjack would be Amesha, Cyngas and (melee is completely irrelevant).

I'm going to approach this from the perspective of someone who plays solo mostly, but will occasionally run pug missions if it's absolutely necessary.

Amesha is clantech. Assuming that you've already got the research done, the resources it needs are either incredibly abundant (alloy plates, polymer bundles, neurodes, etc) or easy to find (10 nightwave tokens worth of alertium).

Cyngas parts are all from the right hand side syndicates and are not expensive (20k each, let's say that's 3 days worth of standing). That's something you'll be able to bang out pretty fast. If you don't have those syndicates, I imagine that it shouldn't be too hard to just do a straight swap part-for-part with someone else who does have them.

My Odonata Prime has exactly 1 forma (never used amesha, don't know what it needs for a full build), the cyngas will want something like 3 (this is what I've put on my Phaedra, I imagine that the loadout will be similar). 4 forma: assume a 50% chance of getting a forma from your relic (using a relic with forma in bronze, pugging it and assuming that at least one other player has a bronze forma relic). You can get 1 relic per 1m 30s, then another 3 minutes to run it, let's say 5 minutes to get and open each relic. Basically negligible time, seeing as how you'll need 4 days to build them all. Forma aren't particularly expensive either, one each of some starchart rare resources.

They're also going to want a potato each. That's 75 nightwave tokens each, 150 total. That is a lot. It's the entire first block of tokens, 3 of the intermediate blocks or 10 prestige ranks. Nevertheless, players will likely make progress towards this normally while playing the game.

Mods for the archwing and the weapon are slightly more annoying to do. The Cyngas wants to be a status build, but the dual stat mods only come from profit taker at 2.5%. Ouch. However, anyone who's doing railjack missions will need to minmax the crap out of their loadout because the enemies you face tankier and more damaging than anything on the starchart - so it's pretty safe to assume that players will be capable of spamming profit takers by the time they're ready to railjack.

All the other AW mods need to be ground from AW missions directly. This is a bit more annoying. AW missions aren't something you're going to be doing as part of the main game, but you can double up your resource gathering with your AW mod farming because the resources are shared. Nowhere near as efficient as doing it on land with Nekros etc., but the income is not zero. It's also much easier to do AW missions than railjack missions when starting from nothing.

Levelling AW gear is pretty easy, the mobile defence on Neptune is pretty good for that - especially if you've got Amesha to protect the objectives. It's much faster when powerlevelling in a squad on uranus underwater survival, but that won't happen all the time.

Finally, and this is the most important part, not one thing about Archwing has random stats. If you get a hyperion thrusters, you've got the best one there is straight out. Build your Cyngas, and you don't randomly end up with some zekti trash 5/6 times. There's no feeding more and more and more coins into a slot machine which needs to get 4 separate rolls right (part, house, stat 1, stat 2). This alone is what makes Archwing so much better than Raijack. Its RNG infection is nowhere near as bad.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

My answer is no and my depressing reasoning is that DE will have forgotten about railjack by the time any so called new war comes lol.

[Kaotyke]

37 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

But reactor is the most important part. If you got no reactor you can't crank those avionics to get those stat boosts. Nobody is flexing on a Vidar here. I just got it with dumb luck. And even if you get one you'll most likely low roll one around 40-60. Considering those can go up to 100 that is absurd with the drop chance it has.

As for RNG material gathering it's not a 2% drop you'll get one ore or one wisp. Take like half an hour to farm caves and you'll be swimming in ores and there are wisp farm routes. You can't compare that to RNG of railjack drops. Take a hour and you got yourself a well built amp.

At this point, we are going in circles. So I will just stop replying to this kind of point and re-direct to my previous posts in this topic.

37 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

 

Focus lenses drop like crazy if you run bounty missions to the point you can slap them on everything and anything you want.

And its still RNG and repeating bounties over and over.

You say its "easy". I never said anything on difficulty levels. I said it had RNG involved and that was it. Which you have not denied.

[CarstairsTV]

New War, if it is in fact a cinematic quest and not a series of updates, will likely require Erra to be completed, which requires access to Veil Proxima, which itself requires a rank 7 intrinsic. It will also likely come after the second phase of Empyrean, after which Command will be available, and as the New War quest would be solo as all cinematic quests are, it would also require advancement in the Command intrinsics to have a Railjack capable of soloing high-level Railjack missions. So, yes, the New War cinematic quest would likely require significant investment in Railjack content, not just intrinsics, but weapons and components capable of soloing content at least as difficult as Veil Proxima, if not more difficult.