I have a question about "New War", i "MUST" upgrade my railjack to play it?

[DrBorris]

TWW required nothing of your Archwing.

The Sacrifice was doable with a base Operator. 

I highly doubt that The New War will ask anything of us beyond just having a Railjack. 

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

On 2019-12-28 at 2:18 PM, Smilomaniac said:

Do clan research for the Sigma ship parts. I'm positive you'll be able to get through anything with the Mk3 sigma parts which are much cheaper than the drops.

But yeah, you'll probably need to play Railjack to do it and it's going to suck if you don't enjoy the game mode ;(

Yeah I didn't notice that and was trying to grind out all these repairs and I could of greatly improved my effectiveness gradually with the researched gear... lesson learned lol.  

[BornWithTeeth]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)Pengu_Imperialus said:

Yeah I didn't notice that and was trying to grind out all these repairs and I could of greatly improved my effectiveness gradually with the researched gear... lesson learned lol.  

By now, it's become apparent that the best thing to do is to use Clan Mark 3's until you can do Veil missions, then slowly replace Clan gear with House gear upgrades, same tier but better stats.

 

A thing we could have done with knowing right from the start, sadly.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

"I have to PLAY THE GAME to access new content?? EWWWW!!!"
This is what you sound like.

[Kaotyke]

39 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

But you said farming railjack parts RNG is the same RNG as farming materials for building amps.

No. I didnt:

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Now its your choice: Do you want an easy time or feel pain in your @$$ (not the good kind, the one where you ate a lot of Carolina Reaper the day before)?

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Its the same idea: Either you put time to upgrade it or you dont.

Those who wished to "forget" the Operator existed and didnt put any time on them found themselves going through harder times when doing progession that needed them. While those who did are breezing through it.

Railjack, this game in general actually, will have you struggling if you dont take time to get better gear. RNG or not.

I never said the RNG is the same. I was talking of Upgrating and you started to throw RNG in the conversation.

Speaking of which, you said this:

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Comparing operator to railjack is not fair though. There is absolutely zero rng involved in getting a good operator amp or focus points.

Which there is. Which you have not denied. But are now saying that "Its not as bad as Railjack":

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As for lens RNG it's a 14% drop chance for each rotation. It's not uncommon to get out with 3 of lenses via just one bounty mission. So no that doesn't come close to railjack RNG either.

You were proven wrong and now are pulling other straws.

Then you started with the Vidar Reactor thing, which had nothing to do with the topic before:

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But it's not. If you don't get lucky you'll never progress in Railjack. It's possible for a mk3 reactor to be worse than a mk2 and it's a 2% drop.

While operator it's a fixed and steady amount. Once you get that amp you got it. It's always the same. Hell you just need to get a rank 1 amp to make those quests much easier and that doesn't take long at all to do.

Which I debunked by not having said Reactor and the Sigma MK3 does enough, and that the true power in survivability of the Railjack comes from avionics.

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And I want to know why are you focusing so much on this Reactor? I dont have one. You dont need have this specific reactor to progress. I use a Zekti with +45 Avionics, which is still lower than the Sigma MK3's +50 and I still do fine. Having one is not needed, its nice, but not needed.

Quote

 

All it does is give Capacity, for the ship to survive it needs Avionics. And the Sigma MK3 is more than enough to make the ship at least survive.

Then you went on and on about RNG of the Operator "not being so bad":

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The first amp doesn't require that much resources. You can relativley easily get those specially now that the fortuna mining stick let's you get all without even investing into cetus stuff.

As for material RNG well guess what. Every single item in the game to be built has that. Including Railjack. Except railjack farm for those is like 10 times worse.

Wisps are terrible but they don't need much for the first parts.

Considering lenses guess what? I farmed those using basic ones ( which are absurdly easy to get now compared to sortie only back then ) and adaro spin 2 win without having access to greater lenses and maxed out my zenurik pretty easily. So no you can do that with basic stuff

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But reactor is the most important part. If you got no reactor you can't crank those avionics to get those stat boosts. Nobody is flexing on a Vidar here. I just got it with dumb luck. And even if you get one you'll most likely low roll one around 40-60. Considering those can go up to 100 that is absurd with the drop chance it has.

As for RNG material gathering it's not a 2% drop you'll get one ore or one wisp. Take like half an hour to farm caves and you'll be swimming in ores and there are wisp farm routes. You can't compare that to RNG of railjack drops. Take a hour and you got yourself a well built amp.

Focus lenses drop like crazy if you run bounty missions to the point you can slap them on everything and anything you want.

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As for lens RNG it's a 14% drop chance for each rotation. It's not uncommon to get out with 3 of lenses via just one bounty mission. So no that doesn't come close to railjack RNG either.

Which you seemly forgot about your previous statement of "There absolutely zero RNG in Operator Focus and Amps" and are now downplaying it and are now adding the Paracesis and the need to have access to the Veil to the conversation:

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Please do tell me again how it's the same as trying to get your operator quest ready? With do keep in mind you NEED to get the highest tier of railjack missions to even start the new quest plus have a paracesis built.

Which brings us to now.

Which you are saying I was the one who said farming RJ parts is the same as farming Operator things.

I never did. You are grasping at straws and adding more and more excuses to justify yourself. You are the one who started the RNG talk. I started about Upgrading: reguardless if it had RNG or not because I never mentioned RNG in the my original post you qouted. And I decided to humor you with your Vidar Reactor and RNG talk.

So, keep talking. Or should I say: digging.

[Vox_Preliator]

10 hours ago, ChaosSabre said:

Comparing operator to railjack is not fair though. There is absolutely zero rng involved in getting a good operator amp or focus points.

But if you want that vidar reactor mk3 with good rolls or those avionics you need to not make your ship feel like wet paper you must hard pray to RNGesus and probably sacrifice a couple of goats too.

There is zero RNG in getting good Railjack parts.  They're called MKIII Sigma parts.  You don't need more than that to be effective.  There is RNG in getting very good Raljack parts.

Seriously, this is a silly and self-sabotaging mentality.  I was soloing Veil missions with a +49 MKII Vidar reactor (Which I'm still using), and spent a good long while with a MKII Zekti Cryophon, both of which are worse than the MKIII Sigma variants are.  The research is cheap, any clan with a Dry Dock probably has everything by now.  Crafting them primarily requires components that come from space rocks, which can be collected en masse from the easiest Earth mission, which is easy with no Railjack upgrades at all, and Cubic Diodes which are dropped by the hundred in Railjack missions but also technically require no Railjack to collect through Europa.

As for avionics, I was using no seven-rank Avionics for most of it.  No "Park kilometers away and Archwing everything," I was actually fighting in the Railjack.  Typically I wouldn't run out of Revolite or need to craft more, and would only end up in the Catastrophic Failure countdown if I let things get out of hand.  The only thing a little bit sketchy was that I was using Winged Steel, which applies to the Railjack's armor.

Heck, the greatest hurdle to having a strong Railjack at this point is the six million credits required to build it now that the nine days of waiting on Clan research is over.  I have to assume this whole "Railjacks are make of paper" thing is just being perpetuated by people who refuse to even touch upgrades unless they're top-tier, despite that doing so would allow them to farm the top-tier stuff easier and faster, and are just doing the equivalent of running around Sedna without ranking up mods.

Maybe if we never get any further increases to our strength and they leave the reward structure as it is and we're expected to deal with ships ten-twenty or so levels above those in the highest Veil missions over the course of the theoretical future quest, then maybe you'd have a point about it effectively requiring excessively random drops with high modifiers, but frankly even then a competent team should have very few issues with a Sigma-equipped Railjack.

[CopperBezel]

 

6 hours ago, Cephalon_Carstairs said:

New War, if it is in fact a cinematic quest and not a series of updates, will likely require Erra to be completed, which requires access to Veil Proxima, which itself requires a rank 7 intrinsic. It will also likely come after the second phase of Empyrean, after which Command will be available, and as the New War quest would be solo as all cinematic quests are, it would also require advancement in the Command intrinsics to have a Railjack capable of soloing high-level Railjack missions. So, yes, the New War cinematic quest would likely require significant investment in Railjack content, not just intrinsics, but weapons and components capable of soloing content at least as difficult as Veil Proxima, if not more difficult.

6 hours ago, DrBorris said:

TWW required nothing of your Archwing.

The Sacrifice was doable with a base Operator. 

I highly doubt that The New War will ask anything of us beyond just having a Railjack. 

I don't know it it'll require even that. But if so, yeah, that's going to be it. You'd still need someone to taxi you to Veil to break a crystal at minimum, but even grinding intrinsics to get to Veil yourself doesn't require being in a clan with a drydock and completing Rising Tide, so I doubt The New War will, either.

5 hours ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

"I have to PLAY THE GAME to access new content?? EWWWW!!!"
This is what you sound like.

Even Steve called it a new game within the game. Being too quick to gate parts of the old game behind parts of new ones isn't a very good idea; players who don't like new games within the game might very well just go play another game entirely instead.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

1 hour ago, CopperBezel said:

players who don't like new games within the game might very well just go play another game entirely instead.

They are free to do so

[CopperBezel]

I doubt DE will have the same mentality. They want people to stick around, play The New War, and get sucked into playing Railjack too by slow exposure, attrition, and really wanting that sword or whatnot. That's what benefits DE.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

Even Steve called it a new game within the game. Being too quick to gate parts of the old game behind parts of new ones isn't a very good idea; players who don't like new games within the game might very well just go play another game entirely instead.

Oh look. Someone made a rather interesting statement. Except its not just an innocent statement, is it? In the context of the conversation, it's an accusation that something was done, and an implied threat of repurcussions. 

 

So here's where I ask you to justify your claim that anything has been gated behind this new content other than the new content. Now you are going to need to show that there's no way around anything other than a very minimal interaction with the content, because if you can't then it's going to look like you made inflammatory claims unjustly, and then backed them up with threats. 

Because that's exactly what you did and you should feel ashamed of yourself for rushing to sharpen your pitchfork and light the torches. But remember, joining the unruly chanting mob was your own choice. 

 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Oh look. Someone made a rather interesting statement. Except its not just an innocent statement, is it? In the context of the conversation, it's an accusation that something was done, and an implied threat of repurcussions. 

 

So here's where I ask you to justify your claim that anything has been gated behind this new content other than the new content. Now you are going to need to show that there's no way around anything other than a very minimal interaction with the content, because if you can't then it's going to look like you made inflammatory claims unjustly, and then backed them up with threats. 

Because that's exactly what you did and you should feel ashamed of yourself for rushing to sharpen your pitchfork and light the torches. But remember, joining the unruly chanting mob was your own choice. 

 

dude Reb isn't Going to plant a kiss on your forehead for this one 

[Myscho]

I didnt even use my own Railjack and still have Erra quest completed and all Shedu part aquired, so till New War isnt SOLO only, im fine

[FRTE_Ret5o]

Maybe,we can only especulate on what is to come.

But just in case upgrade your railjack, get tier 3 stuff from sigma series, its the stuff in your dojo

Edited December 31, 2019 by FRTE_Ret5o

[Mr.Fluffins]

I really hope New War is not locked behind Railjack. Don't get me wrong, I personally enjoy Railjack despite the bugs and issues, but I wouldn't want the story progression to be locked behind it, since the mode is rather different to general gameplay and may not be for everyone,  some people just don't like space combat.

I hope there will be some work around for those who don't want to grind Empyrean, maybe they can ask other people for a ride to complete the quest.

[CopperBezel]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Oh look. Someone made a rather interesting statement. Except its not just an innocent statement, is it? In the context of the conversation, it's an accusation that something was done, and an implied threat of repurcussions. 

I said that they're not likely to gate The New War behind a bunch of Railjack grind. Repeatedly and unambiguously. = /

(Why is that past tense, by the way? The New War hasn't launched. The biggest thing it's gated behind right now is the inexorable march of time.)

Edited December 31, 2019 by CopperBezel

[Kaotyke]

39 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

That directly is saying that upgrading the operator is the same exact as upgrading your railjack. That's the sole reason my comment started. Which is not even near as true.

No. Stop twisting my words to make yourself feel justifyed.

I never specified. Just that you should Upgrade. Never said they were the same aside form the idea of Upgrading.

40 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

But only thing you need for operator as I said multiple times is a amp that is actually needed to beat those quests. Amp ALWAYS has the same stats. Once you buy the amp and build it you are done. Then you went into but materials are RNG too durr

No. You havent. And now you are pulling Stats. Keep going. What's next? Types of materials?

40 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

In the end there is no RNG involved to get parts for your operator. Just some material and reputation grind. You'll always be able to get the best possible gear for your operator at all the times. You can farm forever in Veil and never get a gear upgrade for your railjack you need.

There is. RNG of Ores/Gems, RNG of Fish parts because you need to know where the Hotspot is and guess what? Its random. No you dont. To get the best gear for him you need RNG. Soecially if you want the Fortuna Amps. Go kill some Racknoids.

43 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

You only need 1 amp to make those a joke. Hp pool of operators is really not important since operators are immortal anyway. There is no mods needed to make operator work. The only thing involved with making those quests no problem is building a rank 1 amp. While making a rank 1 weapon in railjack will slightly more tickle enemies than your starting gear. And unless you hitch rides on other people ships you will have a terrible time with your unupgraded 2% drop chance best avionics that you can't upgrade coz you don't have enough capacity railjack.

And now you say "You only need 1 Amp" and "its not important because Operators are immortal anyways".

Downplaying your faulty arguments again? Bringing the 2% of your Vidar Reactor again? Sad. But keep going.

I'm very fresh right now.

36 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

Guess what? I was running my mk1 parts railjack in there as well and with a good crew it's no problem. That's just a normal area. As for solo I parked railjack used my amesha. They said the things that are coming will need a beefier ship to handle and with upcoming amesha nerf it's safe to assume veil mk3 good rolls is the minimum you'll need. Plus the low percent avionic drops.

OH! OHOHOH!! So you dont NEED the MK3 parts (Precious Vidar Reactor) do to well! So contradicting everything you said at this point again.

Keep going. We will reach the mantle soon enough.

[BornWithTeeth]

6 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

And you keep twisting my words again. What ore does have a 2% drop chance? What fish has a 2% drop chance? None. You can do a 20 minute cave run and you'll be swimming in those. Plus starting parts as far I remember only require murkrays which are easy to catch and the really basic gems. Also why would any sane person want fortuna amps besides just the mastery?

You said upgrading your operator is the same as upgrading your railjack. Which is not. You brought in the resources and all that garbage in here. All I said is you get the weapon blueprints, you get the resources and you build them. That's it. Only thing you need is to farm some cores to give them to onkko which is really not that long for starting levels. Hell you probably can even jump in a random teralyst bounty and be done with it over one night cycle for 2+ ranks.

You do know not everyone is in a clan that has researched Sigma Mk3 stuff or is even close to it? You know that not everyone is willing to spend to farm 10+ hours on one node just to build those for your railjack to be mediocre? Again in the future I bet the cost of these will be cut in half but as it stands now no. It's nowhere near as gearing your operator to be needed for quests.

The research materials for the Sigma clan gear are not actually space/Empyrean resources. Clan tech upgrades for the Railjack can be researched out of pocket change. I didn’t even notice the cost of researching them. You can go from having a freshly built ship to having all the clan tech researched without ever actually doing any Railjack missions. Then, when it comes to building those Sigma Mark 3’s, they’re far, far cheaper than House wreckage repairs. You could just tool around doing missions on Earth and Saturn and have the resources needed in a few days of casual play.

 

Once you have those Clan Mk 3’s, you’re good to go. Seriously, you’re fine. House tech is good, it’s an upgrade, but it’s not mandatory. Your ship can get it done. The thing with the Vidar Reactor is pretty dumb, you’re correct there, but I do think that your irritation over it is now leading you into stating and then defending some moderately silly positions.

[HugintheCrow]

9 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

The research materials for the Sigma clan gear are not actually space/Empyrean resources. Clan tech upgrades for the Railjack can be researched out of pocket change. I didn’t even notice the cost of researching them. You can go from having a freshly built ship to having all the clan tech researched without ever actually doing any Railjack missions. Then, when it comes to building those Sigma Mark 3’s, they’re far, far cheaper than House wreckage repairs. You could just tool around doing missions on Earth and Saturn and have the resources needed in a few days of casual play.

Once you have those Clan Mk 3’s, you’re good to go.

I'd like to confirm this, as it is pretty much what I did.

[Kaotyke]

15 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

And you keep twisting my words again. What ore does have a 2% drop chance? What fish has a 2% drop chance? None. You can do a 20 minute cave run and you'll be swimming in those. Plus starting parts as far I remember only require murkrays which are easy to catch and the really basic gems. Also why would any sane person want fortuna amps besides just the mastery?

You are focusing so much in this 2%, its hillarious.

And another excuse, "Why would anyone want Fortuna Amps besides just mastery" just to keep your RNG talk going. Its amusing.

17 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

You said upgrading your operator is the same as upgrading your railjack. Which is not. You brought in the resources and all that garbage in here. All I said is you get the weapon blueprints, you get the resources and you build them. That's it. Only thing you need is to farm some cores to give them to onkko which is really not that long for starting levels. Hell you probably can even jump in a random teralyst bounty and be done with it over one night cycle for 2+ ranks.

I said the idea of Upgrading is the same: Upgrading. Not the methods. You are the one who started it the RNG thing and went along with it.

Dont try to escape. i will keep calling you out on it.

18 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

You do know not everyone is in a clan that has researched Sigma Mk3 stuff or is even close to it? You know that not everyone is willing to spend to farm 10+ hours on one node just to build those for your railjack to be mediocre? Again in the future I bet the cost of these will be cut in half but as it stands now no. It's nowhere near as gearing your operator to be needed for quests.

Railjack Lab Research
10,000	1	2,846	8,138	5,157	Time: 72 hrs
					Prereq: Mk II
x1   x3   x10   x30   x100

 

 

 

It must be really freaking hard to get Salvage and Ferrite to research, isnt it?

The excuses continue.

You are making yourself look bad. Just stop.

[BornWithTeeth]

6 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

Yea but you know most people don't have access to those yet? Not everyone has thousands of spare base material resources lying around.

We are talking bout people who found building railjack to be resources intensive on it's own.

The awkward part of building the Railjack is the six million credits and the 15 Argon crystals. That's it. I can absolutely understand a relative newbie who ploughs all their credits and endo into upgrading mods and building Forma finding it challenging, mind. However...that newbie can still play Railjack missions in public, which will result in building up their Intrinsics and their Empyrean resources for when their own ship is ready. In other words, that newbie who can't afford to build their Railjack? By the time they actually do get it build, they'll have a rake of Dirac and Titanium and Pustrels just waiting to be used, and doing all the clan research takes like ten days of real time, clicking a button every 72 hours. For someone who is capable of building the Railjack, getting the component research done should be easy.

 

 

Railjack came out, and then like three or four days later, I went to my mum's place for Christmas, no computer. Only got back on the 27th. I have basically had less than two weeks to play Railjack, and have likely spent, I dunno, thirty hours, total, maximum, playing Railjack content? My ship is upgraded. All Mk 3 equipment, decent mods. Not the best build, but a good one. 7's across the board in my Intrinsics.

[Ham_Grenabe]

6 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

The awkward part of building the Railjack is the six million credits and the 15 Argon crystals. That's it. I can absolutely understand a relative newbie who ploughs all their credits and endo into upgrading mods and building Forma finding it challenging, mind. However...that newbie can still play Railjack missions in public, which will result in building up their Intrinsics and their Empyrean resources for when their own ship is ready. In other words, that newbie who can't afford to build their Railjack? By the time they actually do get it build, they'll have a rake of Dirac and Titanium and Pustrels just waiting to be used, and doing all the clan research takes like ten days of real time, clicking a button every 72 hours. For someone who is capable of building the Railjack, getting the component research done should be easy.

 

 

Railjack came out, and then like three or four days later, I went to my mum's place for Christmas, no computer. Only got back on the 27th. I have basically had less than two weeks to play Railjack, and have likely spent, I dunno, thirty hours, total, maximum, playing Railjack content? My ship is upgraded. All Mk 3 equipment, decent mods. Not the best build, but a good one. 7's across the board in my Intrinsics.

Yeah, my clanmates have no interest in building their own Railjack. There's only 5 of us as it is, so one 'jack is enough (as one person put it, "I think the Railjack is cool, and I'm very glad you built one!").

And like you, I upgraded mine almost solely on the basis of joining other squads and clearing the Railjack star chart. With a sprinkling of 50-plat fixer drones to ease the burden.

[Kaotyke]

51 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

Oh silly me. Building rank 1 amp is the same as building a dry dock, building a railjack, having to farm resources to research sigma stuff, wait 9 days for it to be done, farm resources to build those and then farm those 2% avionic damage mods to make your railjack turrets not tickle enemies or overheat by just pressing fire button.

Totally the same.

You brought up the fortuna amp. Not me. I was just saying rank 1 amp is enough to have your operator ready for any type of content requiring operators right now.

You are talking bout people that found just building the railjack a task. You know not everyone plays warframe like us no lifers to have absurd amount of resources stockpiled right?

The damn 2% again.

Yes, I bough up the Fortuna Amps because they are still Amps, which is the topic you brough up. Why should they not be included?

OH WAIT:

1 hour ago, ChaosSabre said:

And you keep twisting my words again. What ore does have a 2% drop chance? What fish has a 2% drop chance? None. You can do a 20 minute cave run and you'll be swimming in those. Plus starting parts as far I remember only require murkrays which are easy to catch and the really basic gems. Also why would any sane person want fortuna amps besides just the mastery?

They are for Mastery Only so they do not count!

Oh sweet baby Jebus! Someone grab the phone!

2 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

 

No. You havent. And now you are pulling Stats. Keep going. What's next? Types of materials?

 

Because I freacking called it! We are now talking of materials!

Someone give me a cigar.

[Vox_Preliator]

2 hours ago, ChaosSabre said:

Guess what? I was running my mk1 parts railjack in there as well and with a good crew it's no problem. That's just a normal area. As for solo I parked railjack used my amesha. They said the things that are coming will need a beefier ship to handle and with upcoming amesha nerf it's safe to assume veil mk3 good rolls is the minimum you'll need. Plus the low percent avionic drops.

How is that safe to assume? 

You just said you were doing fine with MKI parts in a team in the highest-level area, how the heck are you getting the conclusion that Sigma MKIII parts will definitely be insufficient?  Not to mention the statement about low chance Avionics doesn't hold up under scrutiny when the entirety of the mod system exists and that the high percent avionics drops are more than sufficient to enable soloing Veil missions in a dogfight.

Though, I now realize you're one of those people who ignored that in the same breath in which they spoke about "nerfing Amehsa" they also said how they are aware the other Archwings are underperforming and outdated and should be brought up to par while maybe taking a look at if the Amesha is overtuned.

[CopperBezel]

This has exactly nothing to do with anything anyone's on about at the moment, but

2 hours ago, ChaosSabre said:

Also why would any sane person want fortuna amps besides just the mastery?

The Klamora prism is awesome, the Certus brace is an improvement over the Quills offerings, and the Plaga brace is apparently amazing if you have the Madurai passives.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On 2019-12-27 at 7:33 PM, Kaiser_Suoh said:

I want to know if i must "play" railjack mode for New War.

Is not sarcasm. My raijack is lv 0.

No,  but you MUST run missions with other crews until all intrinsics are rank 7.

That’s the route I’m taking.  I’m coat-tailing the early adopters with their insane timesink and fast progression, but making sure I’m valuable as a crew member AND KNOW WHAT I’m doing.

Ill build UP my own RJ gradually.

Edited December 31, 2019 by (PS4)Silverback73