Dauggie Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 With this update we got new type of grind in warframe, that is random stat generator in drops. Yes kuva weapons and rivens had it before but they were fine (I guess since no one bothered to voice against it). But for railjack grind which has 20m+ per mission unless you got all avoinics needed to cheese it, getting parts which are already rare and then hoping to get good numbers. Why is this a thing? Why not just keep it stable like mods? I'm a 3.5 years old player and enjoyed this game so far but this kind of grind puts me in worried state of how future would be. DE needs to stop this kind of grind and give stable stat parts. The whole mk1,2,3 parts exist for a reason, give them variable but stable stat. Otherwise what's the point when mk1 has better stats than mk3. Atm I don't even feel like doing missions more than 2 while farming something since it's so boring and to enjoy my own ship I need rare avoinics which has S#&$ drop rates. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)NewcastleDisease Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 thats not the first topic about this problem... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askorti Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 11 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said: thats not the first topic about this problem... and definitely not the last one... 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mints Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dauggie said: The whole mk1,2,3 parts exist for a reason, give them variable but stable stat. Otherwise what's the point when mk1 has better stats than mk3 Do you have any actual proof of this or did you just look at an MK1 part with one stat maxed out compared to an MK3 part with relatively equal stat distribution and assume that the former is objectively better than the latter? Edited January 3, 2020 by Mints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SordidDreams Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) I want the old kind of grind back. The Hema and Sibear kind, where you just had to gather a ludicrous amount of resources. Yeah, sure, it took a long time, but at least you could see you were making steady progress. The average time-to-acquire may be similar, but with sub-2% drop rates and RNG stats on top of that, you're making no progress until you randomly hit the jackpot. And that just doesn't feel good. Edited January 3, 2020 by SordidDreams 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elenortirie Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, Mints said: Do you have any actual proof of this or did you just look at an MK1 part with one stat maxed out compared to an MK3 part with relatively equal stat distribution and assume that the former is objectively better than the latter? I think he means it is possible to roll mk3 that is worse than mk1, which tbh should not be a case in any good design. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 in the past when your goals did not have randomization on the items, to make things Rare Digital Extremes simply put Mods or w/e on rare-ish Enemies at astronomical drop rates. which would you prefer? Kill 1000 Enemies and get nothing unless you 'win the lottery' to get that one thing, or have a range of Stats to deal with and/or tiered versions of Mods? the way i see it, with Stat ranges and tiered Mods you can get something in the short term and get the final goal of it in the long term. so that you're not just waiting for 100 hours to get that one thing. but i'm not going to tell you which of these two feels more/less rewarding to you, even if it seems like there's a clear 'winner'. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mints Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, Elenortirie said: I think he means it is possible to roll mk3 that is worse than mk1, which tbh should not be a case in any good design. Whereas what I mean is that he needs to prove it. His anecdote and opinion are not enough. Evidence is necessary to make claims like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quimoth Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 11 minutes ago, Mints said: Do you have any actual proof of this or did you just look at an MK1 part with one stat maxed out compared to an MK3 part with relatively equal stat distribution and assume that the former is objectively better than the latter? You seem to assume that these stats roll like those on rivens. They do not. You can roll the worst avionics with the worst flux on an mk3 making it almost equal to a sigma mk1 and worse than a sigma mk2. If your assumption were right, I bet we would've seen less backfire. Right now the pace at which we can advance to the railjack "end-game" content is simply so high, that by the time we can craft any mk1 or 2 parts we already have mk3 parts dropping. It also doesn't make sense that if I were to start out with railjack right now, I could easily just go for sigma mk3 reactor, shield, etc. since in 7/10 rolls they are equal/better than the wreckage that drops. In the meantime they cost not even half what you pay for mk3 wreckage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mints Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Quimoth said: If your assumption were right, I bet we would've seen less backfire. Excuse me? Until you guys post proof you're the ones making assumptions. You even used the word "I bet" just now to signify you don't actually know for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quimoth Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Mints said: Excuse me? Until you guys post proof you're the ones making assumptions. You even used the word "I bet" just now to signify you don't actually know for sure. Your argument is flawed, quit being a smartypants. I can easily throw it back to you, prove me that they CANT be worse. I've rolled +32 avionics and +80 flux vidar reactors, barely over sigma mk2 even though they can easily roll +50 avionics and above. Edited January 3, 2020 by Quimoth 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mints Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, Quimoth said: Your argument is flawed So you make assertions without evidence to back them up and I'm the one with a flawed argument? Are you joking right now? Do you have any idea how logic works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 11 minutes ago, Quimoth said: Your argument is flawed, quit being a smartypants. I can easily throw it back to you, prove me that they CANT be worse. I've rolled +32 avionics and +80 flux vidar reactors, barely over sigma mk2 even though they can easily roll +50 avionics and above. Oh yes, the 2%drop chance of getting a piece of crap worst than the dojo stuff, it's not a slap on the face it's a punch to the stomach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elenortirie Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 17 minutes ago, Mints said: Excuse me? Until you guys post proof you're the ones making assumptions. You even used the word "I bet" just now to signify you don't actually know for sure. reading with comprehension 101 - he cannot know for sure what would happen if things were not as they are, because they are what they are. And big chunk of backlash is specifically because they are what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quimoth Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 19 minutes ago, Mints said: So you make assertions without evidence to back them up and I'm the one with a flawed argument? Are you joking right now? Do you have any idea how logic works? Have you gotten any proof on your side? no. quit bullS#&$ting. Your argument stands as weak as mine. You do not have to show proof but I do? I am sorry that is not how truth finding works, except of course if you're one of those lunatic politicians picking truths you like and calling the rest a lie just because you do not believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mints Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, Quimoth said: Have you gotten any proof on your side? Nobody needs proof to question assertions that have no evidence to support them. You're demanding that I prove a negative, which is absurd. You're ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Herrwann69 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 il y a 50 minutes, Mints a dit : Whereas what I mean is that he needs to prove it. His anecdote and opinion are not enough. Evidence is necessary to make claims like this. They were many examples on Reddit and even this forum. Do your research. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mints Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Just now, (PS4)Herrwann69 said: They were many examples on Reddit and even this forum. Do your research. No honey, I don't hunt proof for the people making assertions. That's their job. Cough it up. Then we can talk about what's wrong, why it's wrong, and what to do about it. Until then it's just a bunch of pointless griping and anecdotal evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Herrwann69 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 il y a 4 minutes, Mints a dit : No honey, I don't hunt proof for the people making assertions. That's their job. Cough it up. Then we can talk about what's wrong, why it's wrong, and what to do about it. Until then it's just a bunch of pointless griping and anecdotal evidence. Too bad. To inform yourself prior to make arbitrary statements is one of the best way to be credible on a discussion. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quimoth Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 8 minutes ago, Mints said: No honey, I don't hunt proof for the people making assertions. That's their job. Cough it up. Then we can talk about what's wrong, why it's wrong, and what to do about it. Until then it's just a bunch of pointless griping and anecdotal evidence. You're not going to be able to have a discussion if you discredit things without proof and pretend to know it all better. Parts CAN roll incredibly bad or at least below what could be expected given they cost roughly 2.5x that of the sigma mk3 parts you can craft INSTANTLY. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schilds Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Railjack/Components Most people ignore flux capacity, which means they're only looking at avionics capacity. If you do that, then houses correspond directly with "better" and "worse" (not a tradeoff, or measured on their combined avionic & flux capacities). According to the wiki: A Zekti Mk3 can roll as low as 10 for avionics capacity. Lavan Mk3 can roll as low as 20. A Vidar Mk1 can roll up to 25, a Lavan Mk1 can roll up to 20. Assuming the wiki is correct, if all we care about is avionics capacity, then you can get a Mk3 worse than a Mk1. Following is a picture of a Zekti mk3 with +10 avionics cap. Spoiler Edited January 3, 2020 by schilds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test-995 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Mints said: Do you have any actual proof of this or did you just look at an MK1 part with one stat maxed out compared to an MK3 part with relatively equal stat distribution and assume that the former is objectively better than the latter? I got bunch of Mk3 engines that is worse than Mk1 engine. If you can't believe it, go play it, i scrapped them so there is none of it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Herrwann69 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) Wonderful MK3. No problems with those kind of rolls. Edited January 3, 2020 by (PS4)Herrwann69 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyra Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 the RNG definitely needs adjusting. at the very least they should have given houses different bonuses and fixed them to those houses. you want Avionics? get a Vidar reactor, you want enough Flux to spam abilities constantly? get a Zekti Reactor. the cheaper house Lavan can offer a little bit of both for less cost, but without specializing, more a jack of all trades, master of none. same can apply to weapons: want slower but more powerful shots? Vidar. want faster rate of fire and don't mind losing a little damage? Zetki. I figured that the houses should have been more like different weapon Manufacturers in Borderlands: when you see a name, you know what you get: you know a Jakobs does more damage, you know a Vladof fires faster etc. give each house a specialty and people can choose to farm for exactly what they want, rather than leaving it to chance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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