Do you think Warframe is to easy?

[Cubewano]

4 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Would you still want it with solo extract being a thing? Effectively: longer missions for less reward?

If they want the old void back arguably it'd be longer missions for more rewards, as opposed to our current one reward per relic setup with multi layer grinds, but otherwise it's not wrong for people to enjoy different experiences. some people like higher scaling difficulty, and properly organized gameplay and coordinated team compositions, and since this is a videogame and the whole point is finding enjoyment that's swell and dandy. 

[ZealousStalker]

3 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

DE: Adds some semblance of difficulty.

Some Players: RRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

DE: Tones down the semblance of difficulty.

Some Players: RRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

lol this. so much, so so so sooooo much. DE wants to add harder things mixed with a good chunk of ppl saying to please do so but any time they do another big chunk of players cry that its too hard now. Ebb and flow of always being in a gray place, warframe has grown a lot and id like to have them add a zone, world, space--something that is just hardline beefy AI and fights that stress and demand you work as a group on some level with gamer bread rewards to make that hardship worth it.

Think on top of this is that a lot of the foe types only have a small handful of skills, spells or gear they can use to fight the player so they need a lot more toys to play with and a boost to their AI, more over the best enemy is your fellow man, the story line is fun and it could be composed in such a way that there is a split between the tenno with you picking one of x sides and new missions and zones where there is a mix of pve and pvp stuff going on--could even be where you and other players have compony points that allow you to buy and make a small force for these mission made up from ?? scan targets? some other thing and you can customize them in some way. Heck could make it so you have kuva liches you catch to make up that force, out fit them and enter in with you and other players. 

could be fun, idk just ideas. but yeah for the most part the game is fairly mindless and that's ok when you just want to relax but comen onto warframe looking for something hard to do that you don't artificially make for yourself.  Still a lot of things on the horizon for the game and me and so many others are hoping some good hardship comes out.

[Cubewano]

2 minutes ago, MysticDragonMage said:

warframe difficulty defined:

it is only easy if you pick the best gear without taking your own personal play-style preference into account. it depends on perspective.

for example, i like Excalibur. sure, he's not the best frame and only appreciated in niche situations with blind, but he cannot be built to Damaging levels like saryn. you wont see me carrying an 8 forma'd tigris prime around on missions. im the one to bring a nikana prime to a fight rather than a fancy riven'd zaw. thus one could argue my experience is more difficult compared to others who prefer optimized builds. no, ill just keep hitting a Laphantis with my bow, thank you. if one thinks that i need to optimize, then i'd argue that either all playstyles need buffs to make the game officially a power fantasy, or their's needs to be brought down to a certain level to make the game more difficult.

power fantasy or difficulty?

choose one, cause its impossible to have both.

it would tear this community apart deciding.

moreso it's only difficult if you play in isolation without large portions of the games progression systems, gear choices, and mods, because any of those aspects can break this games delicate difficulty balance. 

you can debate if that's a good state of affairs to be in if you'd like, but that is the state of affairs, difficulty isn't a difficult thing to find yourself falling out of favor with in this game, and it is far from min maxing behavior to eliminate.

it is also not remotely impossible to have both a power fantasy and difficulty in a game, power fantasy is more about a thematic feeling, difficulty is mechanical, both can coincide with each other perfectly fine if done well. You can look at any of the devil may cry franchise, or bayonetta, or god of war, or metal gear even, for proof of that concept, heck even Warframe at a time had a morsel of difficulty to it and retained being a power fantasy at the same time, and arguably it was more peaceful then where opinions on gameplay were concerned. 

[rs_sakuras]

I wouldn't say too easy. They have definatly tried to ramp up the difficulty but i would say it's still pretty easy though. Imo hard enemies should be considered to be 250-300 lvl enemies not 100-125. Atleast with current scaling

[kapn655321]

42 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

it's not wrong for people to enjoy different experiences.

I don't disagree there at all. ..
There were certainly faults in the original key system, though.

Something can be said about long odds and mounting adversity making for a more pleasurable (if identical) reward.
There was a greater level of control over your party.. which I can't say I believe is a healthy thing to give players..
Due to the scarcity of the keys, they were also hoarded instead of used, which wasn't so good, either.
Being able to rely on a 60 minute grind has it's perks. ...but when people started to resent each other as a result?

I think the understated value of the relic system is that, if you choose to control how you use your relics, you can obtain the same relative experience.

When I think back to Void Keys:
I remember having to run 4 1 hour sessions to help people farm Volt P neuroptics.. a grind that is burnt into my head as being a remarkably bad time.
Everyone was pissed, everyone was bored, and tired, and running out of keys.

No matter what it is under the sun, someone will love it.. but I feel the relic system in place now directly addressed that problem. (and wielding of control and scarcity against others,) without removing anything inherent of the old reward system.. except for having empty parties, or miserable ones.

You were obliged to stay as long as the most dedicated (or potentially ocd/spectrum/gambling addict..) person, or have to abort and waste a key + time because something came up.
Not to mention, the crashes this game used to have as compared to now..

Though, it was certainly a different mood and objective.. and I can respect someone wanting to play way differently.

I'd say it would be interesting if they ALSO brought back Void Keys... but for Vaulted items or something.
See how that tracks with people. (Considering the outrage we get these days over RNG, I'd be surprised if it went well, but.. anything's possible.)

Edited February 5, 2020 by kapn655321

[Aesthier]

 6 hours ago, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

Do you think Warframe is to easy?

No.

 

1 hour ago, Cubewano said:

Warframe at a time had a morsel of difficulty to it and retained being a power fantasy at the same time, and arguably it was more peaceful then where opinions on gameplay were concerned. 

Well one must also take into consideration that around that time Warframe also had very biased and abusive moderators who would ban the accounts of anyone they didn't like or voiced any opinions that conflicted with their (the mods not DE) own.  Thus the community you like to reflect on as peaceful I reflect upon as afraid to say anything.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Aesthier

[(PSN)whit4242]

I found warframe challenging early on when I was rushing through the star chart under-powered, but now that I am over-powered and have a plat mountain, it is  more relaxing than challenging.

I think Warframe is a lot easier than Destiny. I have done most things in Warframe but in Destiny, even at max light, I was never good enough to do raids and struggled to do nightfalls. Destiny required more skill, it required you to aim a gun, not just point it. Also, you had to take cover, not just stand there. That said, Warframe has more variety, it is still interesting, I got bored of Destiny. 

[PlagueOfGripes]

No. I think the way the game is played isn't conducive to conventional methods of difficulty, especially when many frames and weapons are not viable for that content.

When DE tries to add "difficulty" intentionally, I usually find that the content is extremely irritating and not something I want to engage with for long. Orb bosses are a good example of that. I'm glad I'm done with that crap.

[Kaotyke]

6 hours ago, (XB1)MandlorPrime said:

FTFY

No. Those are means to slow down progress. Not difficulty. Your FTFY failed.

[Teljaxx]

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Its not so much about how easy or hard it is, but how engaging it is. And Warframe has become one of the least engaging games I have ever played. When you can obliterate entire armies with a single button, and most weapons barely even require aiming, combat gets boring pretty fast. And yes, this does make it easy. But easy games don't have to be boring. I have played other easy games that are still plenty of fun.

Part of the problem is that DE clearly thinks that challenge=taking along time, and nothing more, because every single "challenging" thing in this game is simply something that takes forever. A boss with a million EHP, a super long arduous grind for something, etc. Either way, you never have to think, and it barely requires any skill or practice, you just beat your head against it until it finally ends.

Honestly, may as well play one of those clicker games. They have about the same kind of challenge as Warframe.

[Loza03]

7 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

DE: Adds some semblance of difficulty.

Some Players: RRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

DE: Tones down the semblance of difficulty.

Some Players: RRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

I blame the balance for this too.

Most of Warframe's 'difficulty' comes from the exact same enemies suddenly dealing 5 times the damage and taking a hundred times more, or by some poorly (if at all) telegraphed oneshot that deletes you off the map. Very few people actually like that. I imagine that when players say they want difficulty, a good 50% of them actually mean they want the interesting combat scenarios challenges creates.

I mean, compare Warframe to Kirby, which is just as easy, and sells millions. Kirby doesn't just involve spamming a screen nuke or time freeze a hundred times, it involves messing around with very high-damage, low-risk abilities in a bunch of interesting levels, platforming sections and encounters, all set up to give you a power trip in a different way. When it does offer you a screen nuke, it's usually a visual display and either a specific level setpiece or a one-time use. Kirby's designed from the ground-up to be the kind of easy experience the other side of the argument wants, whereas Warframe has become so  due to chronic balancing issues.

[vegetosayajin]

When you have all your mods, focus, rj sh1t parts or anything else, when you know how and when to use what and how...the game becomes easy.

The road to that point is kinda hard for a new player. What was the say - "it's the journey that matters"

 

[Laogaeth]

I'm at the point I leave my level 5 lich just take over the star chart just to make planets like earth more enjoyable for me

[kwlingo]

The only thing hard is the grind... hours... and hours... and hours and learning the basic of researching for how to do everything. lol Once you get all the good mods everything is easy. Last Dev Stream, Steve did mention there are some enemy AI tweaks coming. Hoping they will be lots smarter. I mean the Wukong twin is smarter than the enemies. lol

[844448]

2 hours ago, (PS4)whit4242 said:

I found warframe challenging early on when I was rushing through the star chart under-powered, but now that I am over-powered and have a plat mountain, it is  more relaxing than challenging.

I think Warframe is a lot easier than Destiny. I have done most things in Warframe but in Destiny, even at max light, I was never good enough to do raids and struggled to do nightfalls. Destiny required more skill, it required you to aim a gun, not just point it. Also, you had to take cover, not just stand there. That said, Warframe has more variety, it is still interesting, I got bored of Destiny. 

Max light doesn't mean anything though, it's merely increased numbers and padded grind to prevent you from doing them all in one day. I'm wiping out leviathan raid cabals just from spamming melee, one punching them all with wormgod caress or using drang for that rampage so yeah

Looking at the enemies, they're all bullet sponges with heads or whatever the weak points somewhere to make it look like it requires more skill and having to take cover? Area damage + homing attack + heavy damage, try adding that to warframe.

[Benour]

Super easy to the point you get bored and quit. Or play the game 1h instead of 8h that you used to play everyday. Or just come back when new "content" is released farm that/buy with plat, have fun for few hours with new toys and then logout and just wait for new stuff to come...

Funny is i bought this new PC cause warframe was starting to run poorly on my old one. And i ended up playing everything BUT warframe on it actually (cause it can run any game on max settings finally). I just cant stand playing warframe for more than hour or two. There is no challenge and i cant be bothered to stay in mission for 2 hours to actually fight enemies that are atleast somehow threat to me. It just became . And now they are going to nerf armor scaling that gave me atleast some sense of "difficulty" or more like "resistance".

Atleast they added more stuff to liches so im gonna farm for nukor and bramma for sure, so 👍 on that DE you havent lost me yet...  😹

Also Destiny have raids with mechanics and stuff, anything even close to it in warframe is Kela fight and the orb fights, rest is brainless meatgrinder.

Not to mention all the farming for god tier rolls and all the effort you put in gearing up is almost useless cause 99% of warframe can be done with naked mag (mmm naked mag sounds delicious 🙌  ) and operator cheese...

[DeMonkey]

8 hours ago, Aesthier said:

Well one must also take into consideration that around that time Warframe also had very biased and abusive moderators who would ban the accounts of anyone they didn't like or voiced any opinions that conflicted with their (the mods not DE) own.  Thus the community you like to reflect on as peaceful I reflect upon as afraid to say anything.

I really hope you aren't serious. If you are, no one should take that into account. Such drivel should be laughed at for the nonsense that it is and immediately discredited by anyone with a functional brain.

Edited February 5, 2020 by DeMonkey

[KnightOwl_]

Warframes difficulty is just based just on numbers.  The enemy types, strategy and abilities are the same, when you’re doing a lith relic run or a rank 5 lich murmur farm.  Same map, same enemies, just a numbers difference.  Which is why difficulty in this game feels so off. Higher difficulty should add new enemy types, new, adaptive AI, something to make the game more difficult without being just “moar numbers!”

Enemies that will rally other troops, buff the mob and flank you, making them a priority target.  Enemies that try to bait you into an ambush.  Something like when 5 of a type are together they combine into a big baddie so you have to prioritize targets and keep them apart.  Stuff that spices up the game without just being a numbers check. 

but I won’t hold my breath. 

[Siegecraft]

no its not easy its too grindy  with high level of rng mixe into it which surprisingly   gets higher and higher with ever content that drops once a year with the the wait of two year

Edited February 5, 2020 by Reakacemrz

[Chaemyerelis]

Its wayyyyyyyyy to easy.

[844448]

1 hour ago, OmegaDonut said:

Warframes difficulty is just based just on numbers.  The enemy types, strategy and abilities are the same, when you’re doing a lith relic run or a rank 5 lich murmur farm.  Same map, same enemies, just a numbers difference.  Which is why difficulty in this game feels so off. Higher difficulty should add new enemy types, new, adaptive AI, something to make the game more difficult without being just “moar numbers!”

Enemies that will rally other troops, buff the mob and flank you, making them a priority target.  Enemies that try to bait you into an ambush.  Something like when 5 of a type are together they combine into a big baddie so you have to prioritize targets and keep them apart.  Stuff that spices up the game without just being a numbers check. 

but I won’t hold my breath. 

With 50 meters spore/sleep/whatever ability taking them down before we see them, I don't think baiting or new units will make big difference. What they need is direct counter such as flashbang (really, they forget that thing exists?) or able to equip different weapons (elite crewman with glaxion because why not)

[Aldain]

7 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Most of Warframe's 'difficulty' comes from the exact same enemies suddenly dealing 5 times the damage and taking a hundred times more, or by some poorly (if at all) telegraphed oneshot that deletes you off the map. Very few people actually like that. I imagine that when players say they want difficulty, a good 50% of them actually mean they want the interesting combat scenarios challenges creates.

Pretty much hits the nail on the head.

The reason why nothing appears difficult is because enemies are scaling to numbers but enemy design and behavior is stuck in like...2015 era at best.

This is partially due to the over-reliance on numeric changes that DE has displayed throughout the years and the amount of "Immune to X" that they have had to give to enemies for them to not be instantly deleted. Again, big bad Wolf wouldn't have been a blip on the radar if he weren't status immune with 50% irremovable damage reduction ON TOP of armor DR, same with Liches where they only are even remotely durable when they are immune or resistant to the two big Grineer killers Corrosive and Radiation.

The reason why "unfair" difficulty constantly comes up as a discussion point is because of the amount of exceptions to the base rules of the game that DE has had to make to account for the utterly insane power levels that players can reach, I don't imagine it will be long before they make Critical Hit Immunity a thing too.

[Teljaxx]

1 hour ago, OmegaDonut said:

Warframes difficulty is just based just on numbers.  The enemy types, strategy and abilities are the same, when you’re doing a lith relic run or a rank 5 lich murmur farm.  Same map, same enemies, just a numbers difference.  Which is why difficulty in this game feels so off. Higher difficulty should add new enemy types, new, adaptive AI, something to make the game more difficult without being just “moar numbers!”

Enemies that will rally other troops, buff the mob and flank you, making them a priority target.  Enemies that try to bait you into an ambush.  Something like when 5 of a type are together they combine into a big baddie so you have to prioritize targets and keep them apart.  Stuff that spices up the game without just being a numbers check. 

but I won’t hold my breath. 

This is exactly what makes Dark Souls so much fun. Sure, you still have the same kind of numbers getting bigger as you go setup. Enemies get tougher and deal more damage, so you have to upgrade yourself to keep up. But you also fight different types of enemies as you progress. Later enemies require new and usually more complicated strategies to defeat compared to the early ones.

If Dark Souls enemies were like Warframe, you would just end up fighting the same wimpy, blindly flailing hollows from beginning to end. They would just have a thousand times the HP by then.

7 hours ago, Loza03 said:

I blame the balance for this too.

Most of Warframe's 'difficulty' comes from the exact same enemies suddenly dealing 5 times the damage and taking a hundred times more, or by some poorly (if at all) telegraphed oneshot that deletes you off the map. Very few people actually like that. I imagine that when players say they want difficulty, a good 50% of them actually mean they want the interesting combat scenarios challenges creates.

I mean, compare Warframe to Kirby, which is just as easy, and sells millions. Kirby doesn't just involve spamming a screen nuke or time freeze a hundred times, it involves messing around with very high-damage, low-risk abilities in a bunch of interesting levels, platforming sections and encounters, all set up to give you a power trip in a different way. When it does offer you a screen nuke, it's usually a visual display and either a specific level setpiece or a one-time use. Kirby's designed from the ground-up to be the kind of easy experience the other side of the argument wants, whereas Warframe has become so  due to chronic balancing issues.

Good challenge usually comes from proper counter play opportunities. Its fine for enemies to have some sort of crazy powerful attack, as long as the Devs provide some clear and consistent way for players to deal with it. But Warframe doesn't really have anything like that. If anything, its got the opposite problem. DE has basically added counter play opportunities, but haven't added anything to counter with them. We were perfectly capable of defeating the enemies before anything like parkour 2.0 was in the game, and the enemies haven't really gotten any more powerful since then. So what's the point?

The other problem is what was mentioned above: You fight the exact same types enemies from the beginning of the game to the end. All that changes is their stats. So "hard" enemies end up just being a gear check, not a skill check. There is no need to become more skilled to progress through the game. There is no need to change your tactics to overcome new challenges. As long as your gear has enough HP and deals enough damage, you're fine.

Its not even really necessary to add new kinds of enemies as the game progresses. Just look at the original Doom. Not including bosses, there were only seven different enemy types in that whole game. Yet it still managed to be fun for 30-odd levels. This is because they constantly mixed up the groups of enemies you found as you went. Putting different ones together or putting them in different places could completely change how you had to deal with them, and keep things interesting.

But Warframe can't do this, because all the enemies and maps are random spawns. DE can't intentionally put together interesting groups of enemies, or put them in tricky places, because the game simply doesn't work that way.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

16 hours ago, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

Lemme start off by saying I don't play anymore, I want to but i don't have ps4 anymore & I own a high end pc now so I plan on waiting till cross save to come out before I come back. But when I use to play around the time revenant was going to come out, I remember being burnt out because of how easy the game felt for me & I wanted to ask the rest of the community if they honestly believe if this game is non challenging or maybe you think otherwise. It also could just be that the gameplay is what you make it, like If i want to jump around skillfully and take advantage of all my warframes capabilities I can, but if you wanted you could just walk around just using melee or your primary weapon. Anyway what do you think? 

Well, i got just 2 words for you : THE CONCLAVE ! 

Edited February 5, 2020 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[-Vahagn-]

It is hard at first but you will get to a point where you are completely unkillable.

My primary Warframe is Nidus and I go down once in a blue moon. There is sadly no challenge for me anymore.