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2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh.


[DE]Rebecca
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Any reason why Arcane Aegis is going to get nerfed massively?

Current Rank 3: On Shield Damaged:
6% chance for +60 Shields/sec for 20s.

Soon to be changed Rank 5: On Shield Damaged:
3% chance for +30% Shield Recharge for 12s.

It just sounds worse to me, or am I missing something?

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On 2020-02-28 at 11:21 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Infested Damage:
We did not want to overlook the Infested in our review. Infested are close-range enemies that telegraph most attacks - and now if one of those attacks hits you, it simply does more damage. Stay agile, stay moving, and the mission is as good as won!

Why: Having Infested simply deal more Damage encourages you to use mobility in ways that is not the norm for their ranged counterparts. Rewarding mobility is a key part of Warframe.

Infested enemies do NOT need more damage, they need to be able to deal their damage in melee range. As of now anyone can just walk(well throttle) in between a group of infested and get hit only 10% of the time, not even sprinting, throttling also can let you easily outrun them, that is simply outrageous.

Infested enemies need to be able to attack while moving and getting their AI updated, yes I'm asking for an AI update, but it'd be great if they could atleast melee while running and also having them coordinate to be in front, behind and on your sides while attacking you so they actually pose a bigger threat.

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On 2020-02-28 at 3:17 PM, Voltage said:

These changes will tremendously improve the health of the game for sure. I feel like this hits the mark pretty damn well. Some of the smallest things like the 90 Field of View are huge and dramatically change how players view gameplay. The Arcane Enhancement changes are also appealing. Sure, if I double stacked a specific Arcane before, I would be receiving a slight nerf, but the options and potential of the proposed changes look exciting and interesting to experiment with compared to the boring Arcane selection we have now. 

The 100x Restores are a great quality of life change that will surely make a more enjoyable foundry. I would also like to see this as well:

The things not mentioned in the Devstream and Dev Workshop that I feel would also improve the health of Warframe as far as revisions go would be these topics as well:

Friendship Doors - These should be considered for removal from normal missions (you can keep them in Rescue or other special missions) as they are quite disruptive to the flow of gameplay. I understand they have been part of level design for years, but Railjack really showcased how counter-intuitive this mechanic is. Jupiter and the Sentient Ship are a great starting point for future tilesets, and I have high hopes for the Corpus Ship Remaster. Hopefully ancient relics of the past such as Corpus window decompression and Friendship Doors can finally be retired with Deception and Stamina to deliver a more fluent gameplay experience.

Stat Sticks, Abilities, and Exalted/Ability Weapons - The modding of abilities and ability weapons should be made consistent with the rest of modding so that players do not feel like they need a specific Jaw Sword/Mire/Burst Laser/etc. Riven Mod, Weapon augments or such to make full use of their Warframe abilities (Gara, Khora, Vaporize on Deth Cube, etc).

Modding - Mods as a whole need quality of life in some areas. Buffing values on underused ones to be a bit more interesting (like the upcoming changes to Status Chance Mods) and potentially reworking various mods over time would be awesome. There are still mods like Maiming Strike, Provoked, some Set Mods, some Archwing mods (Furor/Extend for example), old Augments such as Acrid, etc. that could use some love. This isn't much of a priority and can be tackled over time, but eventually looking at all the outdated mods would be a fresh look into our builds. Exilus Mods should also be examined as some such as Hawk Eye or Armored Agility really feel like they should be there.

  • A topic nobody really talks about is the existence of unreleased [PH] (placeholder) mods through transmutation. These mods were only available through transmutation throughout the years for very short periods of time. The standard procedure when these leak into the global build is a server side patch to transmutation and removing the ability to trade these. However, there is a substantial list that has grown over the years with examples such as: Split Flights (still waiting for Baro to bring this one), Fuze, MOAB, Combo Fury, Combo Killer, Mark of the Beast, Affinity Amp (removed), Sacrifice (released), Toxin Resistance (released), Looter (released), Resilient Focus, Frost Insulation, Fire Resistance, Laser Deflection, and Electrical Resistance. Obviously some of these mods aren't very good, but going through these mods and either removing them from player inventories or releasing them for others would be nice. I bring this up because like the re-introduction of Primed Chamber and Artax Riven Mods, availability for modding options should be consistently accessible in some fashion across all platforms and player inventories.

Nightwave Acts Length - Nightwave seasons are falling into the same dilemma Sorties did throughout 2016. The seasons go long overdue, and the backlog creates pressure for DE as well as burnout and boredom for players. I understand Nightwave is supposed to have rich storytelling, but would it be too much to ask that between these stories, we get consistent intermission lengths as well as unique rewards? There are loads of yet-to-be-re-released cosmetics and items from past years of this game that would be awesome in Nightwave Intermissions. Likewise, instead of making a 90 level cap Intermission II, splitting it into multiple separate Intermissions both with the same number of days in length would have brought consistency for Nightwave act length as well as more chances for Umbral Forma for active players. You can still develop rich story-telling Acts every couple months, but consistency for act length and intermission length would keep the system feeling fresh every segment while also still having large gaps between the story telling and unique rewards. I say all this in regards to the insane length of this current intermission that has gotten stale and the experience of someone who never missed out on a Sortie season. When the time strays far away from the initial time period (looking at you Karak Wraith from Sortie seasons 1 and 2), you get really bored with the current season and just want a new one. Multiple intermissions in a row with different rewards would be more enjoyable than half a year of the same intermission while waiting for a story from Nora Night.

Riven Dispositions - As time goes on and Prime Access releases alter Rivens, more players feel time has been devalued in some form (atleast from reading [DE]Connor's posts every 3 months. This is an inevitable battle in the current system, and it seems Rivens have fallen into a rabbit hole that hurts player investment and the feeling of the system. Riven disposition as a mechanic should be considered for removal and instead players see "Catchmoon" type change to weapons that are simply out of line (way too powerful), the reverse for weapons like Stug, as well as some better finalization being applied before launching weapons like Rubico Prime, Catchmoon, etc. No disposition would make pre-nerf Catchmoon less desireable (as the stats DE gathered proved), and no Disposition makes Stug worth your time right now. Balance is a tricky thing in this game, and it would be difficult to get right of course. Currently the state of Riven dispositions have unfortunately become a weapons balancing system of sorts by accident, and this sort of rocky road just won't be great for players and developers alike. The effort balancing Dispositions could be spent tweaking base damage and simple base stats on weapons to create a shifting meta and more interesting game that rewards those who try out many different weapons and invest in the hundreds of weapons the game has to offer.

Aura Mods - Aura Forma has allowed true freedom of Aura choice for invested players, but there still seems to be an overreaching shadow of a very small select Aura Mods that outshine the rest. This is very similar to the Arcanes problem being addressed by the proposed changes coming in the mainline, and it is a very important piece to a loadout. Currently many Auras are not worth using, and an overhaul of our current lineup to be more interesting to use would be awesome. An example I have in mind would be combining all the Scavenger Auras into a single Scavenger Aura that affects all ammunition types (Maybe including Arch-Guns as well to give it a niche upper-hand in Profit-Taker fights). Another example could be to change `Sprint Boost` into `Parkour Boost` that boosts parkour velocity rather than just sprint speed. Additionally, I believe there needs to be consistency on the bonus modding capacity. +8 (+16 polarized) seems like a good middle ground between +7 (+14 polarized) and +9 (+18 polarized). This would provide complete Aura freedom and no pressure to slot Steel Charge/Power Donation solely due to a capacity advantage towards things like Umbral Mods and other specific high drain builds.

Weapon Holster Speed - This is extremely small, but would have a large impact much like the Field of View changes. Increasing holster speed across the board would be a general quality of life improvement that would tremendously help the satisfaction of gun-play throughout the game. Mods that increase holster speed could be reworked or slightly changed to compensate for an increase across the board. I mention this as someone who uses Speed Holster in Profit-Taker fights due to most other Auras having little effect there, and the gun-play when I switch weapons feels much smoother in comparison to normal missions.

I also just wanted to note I am excited to dust off my Tonkor from 2016.

Amazing post..you are my hero.

So many good suggestions but for me holster speed is on top of my wish list and has been for years.  

For such a fast paced game holster speed is horrendous and a bandaid mod does not fix it.

Hope you repost in feedback threads, twitter and anywhere else it Needs to be.

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Please tell me that the R5 Armor Value of Arcane Guardian is a Typo. It already grants 600 Armor at R3, same as an R3 Arcane Ultimatum. Yet at R5, Arcane Ultimatum grants 1200 Armor, while R5 Arcane Guardian only grants 600.

There are a number of High Energy, Low Shield/Armor/Health Warframes (Mag, Mirage, Limbo, Banshee to name a few) that depend on Quick Thinking to achieve any meaningful nominal EHP. 2x R3 Arcane Guardian has been a traditional addition to these builds, because it actually makes them tanky enough to be usable in lategame. If the value remains at 600 for R5 Guardian with no double dipping, you're effectively killing these delicate Warframe's practicality in anything outside of Star Chart. You spout on and on about wanting to incentivize "Player Variety" when all you need to do to achieve that is provide "mechanical balance/practicality". I've played Warframe for over half a decade and tweaked and tested builds like a math addict; I know what little difference a 25% DR on shields and a depletion gate is going to make for these particular Warframes.

 

Speaking of which, shield gating on Corpus? Really? Take the faction with the best DPS, the best AoE, the most widespread Warframe Ability Countermeasures, and then give them a buff to cover their one fault? Who thought that was a patent idea?

 

Corpus have been the "Glass Cannon Tech Geek" archetype enemies since their inception. They are by and far the single most dangerous faction in the game; Attack Drones, Fusion MOAs, Techs, Sapping Ospreys, Nullifiers, Combas, Scrambas, Bursas and all the hitscan Slash-proccing Flux Rifles/Detron pellet popping BS in between, and you took away their only weakness? You took the "Glass" out of "Glass Cannon"? Congrats, you just made the most dangerous faction even deadlier. I love the idea of having to line up 2 shots of a 5 Forma Riven buffed Daikyu on an Osprey to kill it. Sapping Ospreys are going to be twice the nightmare in lategame than they already are.

 

On a happier note, I'm glad to see my main Titania getting gradually better every other update; Tribute Buff Cycle is a welcome addition, and after having literally coined the term "tether" in reference to a Lantern Fix back in 2017 on the week Silver Grove dropped for consoles, I'm chuffed to bits that someone at DE finally cares more about functionality, than they do abusing rag doll physics to the point of detrimental gameplay. Spellbind's new mechanic is also a request of mine originally forwarded back when Razorwing Blitz was released (Yeah, making Rework suggestions for Titania is literally the only thing I log on to the forums for), so I'm quite pleased to see it implemented as well. You've made use of almost every tweak I've yet recommended, just three more to go and I can finally shut up about Titania:

1.) Alter her passive so that it has a use in Razorwing, because the community only ever uses Titania for Razorwing.

2.) Dust & Thorns are good buffs; Entangle & Full Moon are hot garbage. Can this be fixed?

3.) EHP & Damage Scaling on Razorflies; because Titania can't make use of Companion Buffs while in Razorwing, and the Razorflies are trash, not even remotely fair compensation for the loss of a Kavat. I've suggested making Razorflies an Exalted Modular Companion like Venari in past rework recommendations; I've gone further by suggesting that Razorfly generation should be tied into Titania's passive (For every ability cast, Titania generates a Razorfly up to a cap of 4 outside of Razorwing & 10 while Razorwing is active), and that Razorfly's exclusive generation is decoupled from both Razorwing and Tribute, so that base Titania can still make use of them. I know that having 3 Exalted Implements on a single Warframe would turn said Warframe into a Forma Sink, but I'm perfectly cool with having to earn my optimization; I played Warframe for years, so I'm accustomed to it.

 

Like many in this thread, I hope you consider EVERY impact that these proposed changes are going to make BEFORE you carry through and drop a load in the public build; Warframe's recurrent player count took a meaty hit when a half baked Empyrean mainline update was dropped before DE collectively dissolved for a hot fix exempt holiday; you really want to risk another so soon?

Edited by (XB1)Vile Slanders
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To everyone saying "instead of 100x bp just add forge queuing," consider this. While that would be an a great QoL change across the board for forging, it's never going to happen (which I'm sad about too, don't get me wrong). Because this is a F2P, Pay-to-advance-faster game there are certain time gates DE is going to keep in the game. They do this to incentivize players who don't want to wait to buy plat from them to bypass these time gates. I know that's spelling out the obvious but that is exactly the reason why they will never add something like forge queuing, and will instead opt for bps that craft more per craft. Maybe some day they'll add an option to pay an amount of plat to queue items, but they'll never make it outright a free regular feature. 

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On 2020-02-28 at 10:21 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Infested Damage:
We did not want to overlook the Infested in our review. Infested are close-range enemies that telegraph most attacks - and now if one of those attacks hits you, it simply does more damage. Stay agile, stay moving, and the mission is as good as won!

Why: Having Infested simply deal more Damage encourages you to use mobility in ways that is not the norm for their ranged counterparts. Rewarding mobility is a key part of Warframe.

This sounds like a good idea on paper but honestly I don't think infested need any damage boost at all.

At higher levels (that is, 50+) anyone that's ever been knocked down in front of a small crowd of chargers will remember being absolutely shredded with their "weak" attacks in less than a second. I feel the damage output is plenty dangerous where it is right now.

While it is trivial for the MOST part to evade melee attacks by swarming infested, there are numerous cases where enemies will get cheap hits in with already deadly damage:

Getting knocked down by anything (already mentioned).

The ancient's harpoon attacks which already have the capacity to one-shot lower health frames at high levels, are very difficult to avoid when you're not aware of new infested ancients entering the fray.

Performing a cinematic attack, like a finisher, parazon, which will grant you invincibility for the duration, but while you're stationary enemies have plenty of time to crowd around you and wall you in.

Purposely taking damage for beneficial abilities like Rage are already extremely risky, and with boosted enemy damage this might not even be an option anymore in infested missions.

These are my first impressions, and it's my opinion that a flat infested damage boost will do more harm than good.

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1 hour ago, staranow said:

Any reason why Arcane Aegis is going to get nerfed massively?

Current Rank 3: On Shield Damaged:
6% chance for +60 Shields/sec for 20s.

Soon to be changed Rank 5: On Shield Damaged:
3% chance for +30% Shield Recharge for 12s.

It just sounds worse to me, or am I missing something?

I believe that this is being done to prevent low shield Warframe with high DR Abilities (Gara, Nezha, & Mesa) from using Arcane Aegis to become unkillable nightmares, while simultaneously buffing the ever living Bejeezus out of high shield Warframes like Hildryn. This also means that Aegis will be affected by mods that alter shield values, similarly to how the current iteration of Arcane Grace is affected by mods that alter health values.

Example:

The current R3 Aegis gives 60 shields over 20 seconds for a total of 1200 shields, regardless of a Warframe's shield stat.

The altered R5 Aegis grants 30% of your Maximum shield per second over 12 seconds. For a Warframe like Gara, who generally doesn't run Redirection, and has base Shield of 300 at Max Rank; 30% of 300 = 90 Shields per second for 12 seconds, which equals 1,080 shields restored total.

If you put a Redirection on Gara, she'd shield cap at 740 Shields. 30% of 740 equals 222 shields per second for twelve seconds, which equals 2,664 shields restored total.

But for a Warframe like Hildryn, who has an astronomically high Shield value and who typically does run Redirection and Primed Vigor for a max shield value of 4,545:

30% of 4,545 = 1,363.5 of shields per second for 12 seconds, which equals 16,362 shields restored total.

You wanted to know what you're missing? It's the percentage symbol right after the 30.

Edited by (XB1)Vile Slanders
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On 2020-02-28 at 4:21 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Status Chance Mod Buffs 
The Status Chance Mods we released many years ago have not been considered worthwhile - there are simply better options within the Status Mod builds (Dual Stats) or Critical builds are more appealing. We are buffing all Standalone Status Chance Mods to increase the appeal of building for Status on your Weapons:

Rifle Aptitude increased from 15% Status Chance to 90% Status Chance

Melee Prowess increased from 15% Status Chance to 90% Status Chance

Sure Shot increased from 15% Status Chance to 90% Status Chance

Shotgun Savvy increased from 30% Status Chance to 90% Status Chance

With these awesome buffs, please do not forget to also buff rivens' status chance stats.

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I have a good idea: with shield gating on corpus enemies being a thing now, it would be sensible to allow magnetic damage (which is supposed to be strong against shield) to interfere with the function of shield gating. An example of how it could work:

magnetic damage: is not subject to shield gating. i.e. while enemies' shield gating has been activated, magnetic damage dealt to the enemies will hit their health.

magnetic status effect: reduces max. shields by 75% as it does currently. ADDITIONALLY: while the status effect is affecting the enemy, ALL sources of damage can hit their health.

This would actually be a great chance to make magnetic damage really useful!!!

Edited by angel_bee
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This thread is 32 pages long already, that's a lot of feedback. I hope people are being excellent to eachother like Rebecca asked for during the stream.

Here's my TL;DR version of my feedback:


1) Railjack Onboarding Changes - Good
2) Railjack Bug Fixes - Good
3) Armor / Health / Shield - Good
4) Infested Damage - Good

5) AI Aimbots! - Good (please more transparency on how evasion % works in the grand scheme of the enemy accuracy algorithm)
6) Shield Gating - Good (some concern about powercreep)
7) Self Damage Changes - Mixed feelings (concern about caving in to powercreep)
😎 Excavator Health/Shield Scaling Changes - Good
9) Titania Changes / Vauban Tweak - no opinion.
10) Reward Changes: Nodes. - No opinion
11) Select UI Changes from Workshop Part II.  - No opinion

12) 100x Restore Blueprints - Good, primarily because we have more use for excess railjack resources.
13) Sentinel Mods: Shared Usage Allowed - Good, less annoying conflicts, even when you already have 2 copies of the mod.
(where is pets 2.0? Please continue to work on this)
14) Arcane Changes - Good nerf, arcanes are OP OP. 
15) Greater than 100% Status having meaning. - Good, some concern about balancing issues or potential powercreep.
16) Status Mod Buffs - Good

17) Grenade Markers - Good

18) Kuva Lich Murmurs / Fixes - No opinion
19) Deferred Rendering Preview (opt in). - Good
20) Preview HDR rendering (opt in)  - Good
BONUS ITEM 21: FOV - Good

 

Not mentioned here are the changes to shotgun: Not sure. I think it would have been better if status chance simply applied to every pellet. Why mix things up with a complicated nerf/buff? The most intuitive solution would have been to have the status chance in the UI represent status chance PER PELLET. Something seems off about this solution that has been chosen.

 

If you're interested in seeing more depth on my opinions, I have a 20 minute video that has been uploaded to Youtube and will be available for viewing in 5 hours from when I post this:

 

 

Edited by Flying_Scorpion
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On the subject of Kuva Lich murmur farming, can we eliminate some of the tedium by promoting risk vs reward? Can endless missions (Survival, Defense, Disruption, Interception) have their normal rewards restored and the Thrall Spawn cap removed? The biggest problem with the Lich system is the grind; promoting player choice and providing milestone based progression would do a lot for the current egregiously tedious system.

I like playing survival missions; It's pretty much the only mission type in Warframe that I find entertaining. Why can't I be properly entertained while farming for murmurs? A 5 minute dip in an endless mission for murmurs is just boring; give me my 5 minute rewards and incentivize me to stick around for an hour or two by making Thrall Spawns endless in endless missions. And keep enemy level scaling the same in Murmur Endless; I WANT to be fighting level 180 enemies at the 45 minute mark, I WANT to be challenged and have my arsenal and skills put to the test. The sooner I can square off against higher level enemies, the sooner I can start having fun. I can't play Warframe 6 hours a day, let me face a real challenge WITHOUT having to burn up 2 hours of my day just to get them to spawn.

Seriously, why has every update since PoE prioritized grind over entertainment value?

Edited by (XB1)Vile Slanders
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19 hours ago, Xnidior said:

Concealed Explosives

80% chance to explode ( use with caution )

this mod should be perfect for those players who still want to do self-damage

you're assuming this change won't affect self damage mods but it more than likely does.

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Love the new changes. More still need to be done to improve spawn rates in survival and fix murmurs not appearing when the host changes in Lich missions, but I feel like you guys are listening and you'll get there eventually. I know these things take time and the way coding works can make it more difficult than it seems like it should be for what seems to us to be simple changes.

One thing though, perhaps someone asked this already, but what is the difference between Arcane Resistance and the unreleased Arcane Detoxify? I can't figure out the distinction, they seem redundant.

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47 minutes ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

15) Greater than 100% Status having meaning. - Good, some concern about balancing issues or potential powercreep.
Not mentioned here are the changes to shotgun: Not sure. I think it would have been better if status chance simply applied to every pellet. Why mix things up with a complicated nerf/buff? The most intuitive solution would have been to have the status chance in the UI represent status chance PER PELLET. Something seems off about this solution that has been chosen.

I don't think there's too much to worry about in this case. Currently a lot of the enemies that really need to die are outright immune to status and/or armor strip. So this status change still won't likely break the game too hard. It is a bit of a crazy buff to melee weapons though.

The shotgun situation sounded like the status per pellet was going to be the status chance on the card from here on out. At least that was my interpretation. With the status changes it sounds like a full status shotgun isn't going to be too terrible either because there won't be any dud pellets like the 8-10 viral procs that would happen when shooting something with the Tigris Prime using a slash+viral build. There might be fewer procs, but they should all have something to contribute now hopefully.

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1 hour ago, angel_bee said:

I have a good idea: with shield gating on corpus enemies being a thing now, it would be sensible to allow magnetic damage (which is supposed to be strong against shield) to interfere with the function of shield gating. An example of how it could work:

magnetic damage: is not subject to shield gating. i.e. while enemies' shield gating has been activated, magnetic damage dealt to the enemies will hit their health.

magnetic status effect: reduces max. shields by 75% as it does currently. ADDITIONALLY: while the status effect is affecting the enemy, ALL sources of damage can hit their health.

This would actually be a great chance to make magnetic damage really useful!!!

Someone on youtube suggested that double proc could create a vortex effect like Vauban's vortex, attracting enemies to the affected enemy.

They could also make double proc produce a small burst of magnetic energy that reduces nearby enemies' shield by 35%

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One thing that bothers me is the foundry and the solar rail conflict armastice.(Clans need something to do and I wasted tons of recources). For the foundry it is annoying that we can't build duplicates of an item and have to build them one by one, it would be cool if we could specify an amount to build or have the option to build duplicates at once. Ex. Derelict keys, Forma, Ciphers,Space Pizza/Pancakes,weapons that require 2 of the same weapon as a building requirement, refined crafting material,Potatoes, genetic templates,and cores are just a few as an example. Also, arcane helmets(maybe new) in night wave or alerts plz? Since you are reworking arcanes, please allow 2 slots for arcanes but also allow arcane helmets and a separate slot for cosmetic mods  opposite side to exilus like peculiar bloom and growth. The only thing stoping people from using them is that they take up space and people can put practical mods in the slot.

Edited by CHIEF-117
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