2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh.

[Ramflare]

45 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Just for clarity because this is the only thing that really concerns me with the update at the moment is that the sprint toggle bug that was introduced with Titanias last control update to bring her in line with skywing controls won't be addressed. I just want to know that the sprint toggle issue is being fixed so I can go back to loving Titania and not slamming into walls at full speed because of the old skywing issue with sprint toggle. 

Assuming "in line with" means "we copy/pasted that entire lump of code"... It should be fine.

[-Milmo-]

Make Glaives not garbo. Melee 3.0 made them even more irrelevant and I am not referring to the self-damage removal, more of they do terrible damage.

[(PSN)ESYLD]

I think most of these changes are fine, seems like they are taking a lot of inspiration on enemy/player shield, health from Destiny. Love the FOV increase!

My only issue is the significant nerf to Arcane Guardian and Energize and the cost of upgrading.

21 single Arcanes required to reach Rank 5 is just an insane amount given the low drop rates.  In my experience, after 331 Hydrolyst captures, I only have 28 single Energizes.  Is that a reasonable amount of Tricaps for most players?  Hell no!  Unless Operation Scarlet Spear is a recurring event that comes back every 3 months or so, most players will still be required to grind Eidolons, which is fine but with the addition of the new Arcanes, the loot pool will be diluted substantially.  Those who are unable to grind or newer players will resort to spending Platinum to buy these, which I guess is a win for DE.

Given information in this thread, it does not seem like Energize will grant the extra energy on pick-up, it will only have a chance to restore a certain percentage to team mates.  This will significantly impact any frames that cannot regen energy while channeling (e.g. Ivara).  A terrible nerf to such an important Arcane, but I guess this will increase Drop Chance and Drop Rate booster sales to craft pizzas - another win for DE.

With regards to Guardian... oh boy!  A 15% chance only at Rank 5 compared to 20% at Rank 3 now.  The duration increase is trivial and does not add value given it cannot retrigger.  My point is that this nerf was totally unnecessary.

I shudder in anticipation of the changes to Magus Elevate, Lockdown and Anomoly and Pax Charge and Seeker.

TLDR: Nerfs to some Arcanes and upgrade cost was unnecessary/unreasonable.  FOV increase and self-damage removal okay (*watches price of rivens for Kuva Bramma skyrocket!*).

[Tired_Of_Yuu]

You guys called this a boring Devstream, but it has been by far the most important one I've ever seen lol. I'm sure people are more excited about these changes than when PoE was first released. And the thing I've been asking for since Melee 3.0 was first announced (buffs to the base status mods) and Status actually being able to have use past 100% is a dream come true! Bless all of your souls and major thanks to the team!

However, as others have mentioned, the status changes won't matter for Boss fights if all of them are gonna be resistant/immune to them. Even if Status begins to rival Crit in terms of damage output, chances are ppl will still flock to Crit because of its consistency throughout the entirety of the game. It doesn't help that the Sentients are becoming a more prevalent threat in the story, which with their innate DR to certain damage types, will put us at a disadvantage (excluding the use of operators since they trivialize this problem).

My point is, please take a look at how bosses interact with status. I wouldn't mind if status's simply didn't affect them as much (ex: Viral only cuts 30% of a bosses health) or if status duration was lower for them (Viral cuts 50% of health, but for 3s instead of 6s), but reevaluating its usage could help those Crit-only enthusiasts try out status every once in a while.

[Ceejay]

20 hours ago, Wambo said:

i dont like seeing the 100x bp only taking 2 minutes to craft, it highly devalues our current restores. one of the whole points of making a 100x blueprint is that you dont have to sit in your foundry for hours to get a reasonable amount of pads. if the cost of pads is heavily reduced like that it will change the way we use pads in short missions since we can "just craft 100 more ez" and were back to the same problem of sitting in orbiter crafting pads for hours so we can fuel our need for energy

also

can we please get a fix to the hawk eye problem? Eagle eye is an exilus mod while hawk eye is not

shut up

[Arkennstar]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say a few of these are quite possibly the worst changes (on paper, since we don't know how they will work out). Conceptually speaking, these changes affect the game negatively even though at first glance it seems that stuff will be better.

Starting with most importantly, removal of self damage. Unless AoE weapons are nerfed by a massive degree (reducing their damage to 1/5th of single target weapons), this change will do exactly the opposite of what Scott was saying their goal was in the devstream. And that is, to make the players deviate from the 1-2 cookie-cutter builds and bring in variation. The self damage was like the counter, a check and balancing factor for extremely destructive weapons. With that gone, why would anyone use anything other than the Kuva Bramma or any equivalent weapon? You get to obliterate entire rooms at the expense of a little stagger. No risk, just massive reward. As it is, auto rifles and most single target weapons were almost obscure due to the game relying heavily on killing swarms of enemies at once. With this change, 90% of the weapons will become obsolete. This is an indirect nerf to 90% of the weapons in the game. 

Secondly, the status proc changes. Just a couple weeks ago, we got a buff to crit mods because status was king with Condition Overload. Since then, crit builds have made a decent showing and are doing well. But even so, 100% status chance shotguns are already some of the best weapons in the game. With the upcoming buffs with status chance and the ability to build beyond 100%, they're going to be even more powerful and more meta, making auto/non-pellet weapons sink into worse state. Crit was just starting to rise and I'm afraid it will go back to being the weaker build with this change.

Third, changes to arcanes. The changes to functionality are good, but acquisition, it would be great if the eidolons were still the only way to get them. Maybe give the token system to Konzu so instead of rng, we can buy arcanes from him using tokens gotten from eidolon bounties. Plains of Eidolon is already getting left behind in terms of activity. Arcanes from eidolons are the only reason people go to the plains and if that is gone, it would be deserted.

Lastly, the changes to armor and infested being stronger in melee, Makes sense on a conceptual level, but while Warframe does intend to reward mobility, it severely hampers people like me (few though we might be) who prefer to lead a melee combat style. As a Valkyr main, the changes to armor (her biggest advantage anymore) and the obstacles in melee playstyles make me anxious. I would request the devs to take into regard the concerns of players who don't enjoy gunplay as much and like to actually play like a ninja, indulging in melee. 

The rest of the changes, especially making other damage types relevant and the QoL changes are very nice and I'm excited for them. Hope though the above points are considered.

 

 

[JeweledWeevil13]

Will self-damage weapons that got the projectile distance condition added to them keep that when the new stagger system gets added? 
For example, will tonkor shots still have to travel before they explode or will that be removed so that the weapon will operate like it used to but have the stagger?

[0verth1nker]

Pls don't remove self damage system. New shiled gating system already gonna solve that proble, it removes the chance of killing yourself with a single shot. We will get that warning shot when shield is broken. Otherwise there will be running hordes of players with bramma,ogris and other types of big boom weapons. High risk - high reward is the best way to balnce such things. If you want to run with bramma you need to be careful. So i suggest to leave stagger animatoin but don't remove self damage completely. One shot under you feet will aware you that this is bad idea, another shot will kill you if you gonna ignore that warning. Fair enough i think/

[Evhel]

Lot of great things, shield gating is great for shields frames, kuva liches finally having a reason not to run solo again, finally excavators won't pop with a single bullet, self damage needs to go imho, but the stagger animations are cool so i guess that's fine, 100 restores bp god finally (gimme cipher also pls).

Not so great Vauban changes, nice buff but i think it will take more to save that frame, maybe a real rework this time (and remove Ember's 2 z.z)

Plain terrible: Arcanes nerf. Honestly, the only 3 good arcanes are Energize, Guardian and Grace (there are some niche, yes, but they are niches). You can nerf those, but if you continue to give us terrible alternatives we will stick to them, even if nerfed, and be mad for it.

[VermillionFoxx]

19 hours ago, God_is_a_Cat_Girl said:

Well, that is confusing and quite sad if true. That's not the current function of those mods and if they get changed to that not only both are useless but also one is much worse than the other.

 

Arcane Guardian was nerfed to the ground and now you need 20 to get an effect that is worse than it currently is?

Can we please still have the +shield regen, just like grace for health, back? This arcane is what make some builds with shield fun with Hyldrin and Gauss as it immediatly restarted shield recharge. It added build diversity and i think its a good start to make shields viable, i dont even use 2 barriers (and that was waayy more effective) as i think it complements what you want with shields. Specially with the future changes on gating and etc. Dont put it in the dirt, it already has such a low use.

[(XBOX)Frisky Fox]

This is great news! Can’t wait! 

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Overall a good dev workshop to read on. I’m very displeased about reading “added duration and cooldown” for some Arcanes like Grace, Pulse, and Energize. For Pulse and Energize that feels like a massive nerf to most caster Frames and Frames that rely on Channeling abilities to function as they do, or a nerf to Nekros where Pulse is concerned to reliable survive in high levels and aid allies in dense combat scenarios where healing is a great benefit.

Applying cooldowns on certain concepts or abilities were never really a balancing prospect for the player, but just an additional frustration that we have to deal with. Please reconsider.

Edited February 29, 2020 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[xlop404]

21 arcanes for rank 5 is too much, tweak the numbers a bit ... besides, you nerfed the ones that were actually good.... this reminds me why i don't even bother with rivens anymore.

 

 

[Merrcenary]

the only difficulty in the game was not to kill yourself with your own weapon. Thank you for removing self damage, now this game can be played even without a brain

BTW Have you thought about keeping the maximum rank of arcanes as is (3) and just adjus the numbers?

[WeaselBoy]

51 minutes ago, Arkennstar said:

Secondly, the status proc changes. Just a couple weeks ago, we got a buff to crit mods because status was king with Condition Overload. Since then, crit builds have made a decent showing and are doing well. But even so, 100% status chance shotguns are already some of the best weapons in the game. With the upcoming buffs with status chance and the ability to build beyond 100%, they're going to be even more powerful and more meta, making auto/non-pellet weapons sink into worse state. Crit was just starting to rise and I'm afraid it will go back to being the weaker build with this change.

I think you are mistaken in thinking that 100% status shotguns are remaining a thing. They are not. Status has only been "king" on shotguns able to achieve the valued 100%, and melee because CO is(was) a thing. Non-shotgun primaries/secondaries that were built for status instead of pure crit or crit/hybrids have been objectively inferior since the death of Rainbow Builds back in the early days of Warframe.

Existing status shotguns, with only a few exceptions (Exergis mostly) are going to be seeing their status per pellet drop from 100% to ~30-45% at best. They will only be spewing out a fraction of the number of status effects as they do now. Non-status shotguns are seeing their status count rise, but not amazingly so. Only the Exergis will be able to rise above 100% status chance to achieve double procs/pellet, but with only 3 pellets that isn't exactly gamebreaking. Unless these double proc effects are amazing it will be a nerf for status shotguns and a buff to crit shotties. 

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by WeaselBoy

[Oreades]

1 hour ago, Ramflare said:

Assuming "in line with" means "we copy/pasted that entire lump of code"... It should be fine.

Well yeah but last time they copy pasted the lump of code the copy pasted the borked lump of code from old Skywing and broke her, then about a week later updated all of the rest of the Archwing code in the game except Titania to essentially what old Razorwing had been. So I'm a small bit concerned about what's going to happen. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Oreades

[AnhurShu]

I just want to say thanks for the changes. Some I like (shield gating, status mod buffs), some I'm not so sure about (changes to shotgun status), but I can wait and see how those pan out.

[Funkzie]

thank u for these awsome changes :D cant wait to try em

[(PSN)TastyJelloGolem]

I'm sure this has been mentioned already, but just in case it hasn't. If we can now rank arcanes to rank 5 we now need a way to break apart our arcanes. That way we can use our 2 rank 3s to make a 5. If we can't break them apart then we should be able to merge stacked arcanes together.

[master_of_destiny]

Let me do some math here, because you seem to be doing it and refusing to acknowledge your motivations.

 

Eidolon fights last about 15 minutes, if you can do 3 of them in a single night.  Each of these runs offers a single chance at a rare arcane.  Each of the three rarest arcanes has a 5% drop rate, and I'm going to give the benefit of doubt and say nothing bugs out so you don't get kills rather than captures.  Now that we've setup this side, let's factor in that even if you did this constantly there's a day-night cycle so you've got 150 minutes per cycle.  I'm going to therefore assume 4 maximum runs per day, or 10 hours of play time (600 minutes)  That's 12 captures.

Each run has a 95% chance to not get what you want.  This means that in order to figure out when 50% of the player base has had a single drop you solve (0.95)^n=0.5.  n*log(0.95) = log(0.5).  n = log(0.5)/log(0.95).  n = 13.5 runs.  That is to say that after 14 runs half of the people will have a single arcane.  I'll do the rest of the math, without the to-do:

80% = 31.38

90% = 44.89

95% = 58.40

99% = 89.78

 

Now let's figure out how long it'll take for 50% of the population running this to get 10 arcanes.  That will require figuring out the initial % likelihood required to have the subsequent drops even out to 50%.  x^10 = 0.5.  log(x)=log(.5)/10, x = 10^(log(.5)/10) = 0.93.

So using the above you need to get an arcane 93% of the time, and run it 10 times, so 50% of people will have the arcane after 527.07 runs. 

 

That's...just wow.  At 12 runs a day that's 44 days of grind for 50% of the population to have a single max rank rare arcane

 

Now let's bump that to needing 21 arcanes.  I'm just going to say that's 96.7%, 66.82 runs per arcane, and 56 total days for only half of the community to have a maximum ranked arcane.

 

Once you factor in a life, that 12 per day drops down to 3 and you've got 223 days of grind for half of the people to have a maximum ranked arcane.

 

OK DE, do you get it now.  50% of the community grinding for an entire year could get the fully ranked arcanes.  If you expect that to be an acceptable extension to game play, by gross and painfully non-rewarding grind, I am uninstalling now.  

 

To the people defending this...no.  Just because you can spend platinum for somebody else to grind doesn't mean that DE should be able to get away with this level of crap.  If you'd like to argue I'm going to suggest that a minimum wage job earns $7.25 in a lot of the US.  Factor is 40% taxes, and that's $4.35 per hour.  If you worked 10 hours a day, as above, 50% of players would have the single arcane whereas the same person who went to work would have earned $9689.11 after taxes or $16148.52 before.

Do you get it now?  DE is saying that paying them money is the only reasonable way to do this, and people grinding are worth literal pennies on the hour to them in a multiplayer game.  People generating content for the whales they seek are literally worth less than the energy to power their computers.

 

So yes, the new five tier arcanes with the current math is garbage.  I would use stronger words, but fear DE slapping this down and hiding their deplorable devaluation of us so people don't get why the player base should be angry.

[alessioioele]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)TastyJelloGolem said:

I'm sure this has been mentioned already, but just in case it hasn't. If we can now rank arcanes to rank 5 we now need a way to break apart our arcanes. That way we can use our 2 rank 3s to make a 5. If we can't break them apart then we should be able to merge stacked arcanes together.

- Added the ability to Distill assembled Arcanes back into multiple unranked ones.

 

[Ageless_Emperion]

Beautiful changes for the health of the game, ignoring all the children crying that they cant do the biggest numbers they could before when only one or two things in the meta were relevant.

[(PSN)LuisCRC_]

My thoughts on Titania changes:

1st ability buff is fantastic!  I like how they are giving Titania more survival ability with this change.  

 

2nd ability buff is neat, however, I have a few words to say about the ability by itself.  For me, all the buffs (besides maybe Thorns or Full Moon) don't seem that beneficial, especially the Entangle and Dust buffs.  I feel like these buffs could be enhanced a bit to make Titania not only better, but also supportive to allies, and I might have some ideas:

Dust: Grants a damage reduction effect while airborne based on Ability Strength and Efficiency with a max damage reduction of 10-25%.  This buff can stack with mods like Aviator or Aerodynamic.  Buff is granted from melee enemies, such as Chargers

Thorns: Grants slash damage on enemy hit, and is based off Ability Strength and Efficiency, with a max amount of slash dealt being 20% .  Granted from ranged enemies, such as Lancers.  

Entangle (can't think of a replacement name): Grants an armor boost based off Ability Strength and Efficiency, with a max armor boost of 20%.  Granted from heavy units such as Nox.  

Full Moon: Grants a damage boost to all allies and caster based off Ability Strength and Efficiency, with a max damage boost of 40%.  Granted from armored units such as Bombards and Eximus units.  

 

The 3rd ability buff is also pretty neat; I like how they decided to give Titania more crowd control.

And that's pretty much it.  If you have any advice for the changes I made, please let me know.  

 

[HugintheCrow]

2 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Especially if you compare to Octavia, who can have infinite invis without consumables, solely because she can regen energy while invisible.

Octavia is retardedly overpowered though, she should get some nerferinos too.

 

And what's the point of consumables if there is no reason to use them? High-end content should be balanced around having enough resources, consumables included.

Edited February 29, 2020 by HugintheCrow

[Xojira]

Christmas came early this year. I CAN NOT WAIT FOR THIS TO BE LIVE! You outdid your DEs. I can't say that enough.