scarlet spear post mortem

[vanaukas]

5 hours ago, cha0sWyrM said:

2. balance.
  wow...this was a MAJOR issue. the space mission was so much faster and had so much better rewards that i felt almost cheated for having done the ground missions in the beginning. its not even close. not to mention that it was the ground mission that was more important. sure...you need the space mission to reach 100 for the bonus....but at least you could do the ground mission without any space squads at all for guaranteed points, not so much the other way 'round. still....too often it happened where space squads were waiting around for kill codes because no one wanted to do ground missions. i know i didnt want to after doing my first space mission. far FAR more reward for time played...the ground mission was about .25 as fast as the space mission was in earning credits. not to mention all the railjack specific things you got like intrinsics and such. really...it was woefully imbalanced.

This is my only real complain, as I understand the issues on netcode and network infrastructure with this new mode and the usual bugs without taking in accout the network. The condrix was too long, I think 10 would be better next time but is just an opinion, anyway the mission was easy but too long to achieve the max score. I genuinelly wish to play this with improvements on the future, I liked the weapons a lot and fighting hordes of sentients was awesome, but probably I felt that way about sentients because I like them a lot and I was preparing my gear to this moment since a long ago, killing so many sentients as operator with umbra (+ paracesis + shedu) was priceless.

17 minutes ago, cha0sWyrM said:

ah the shedu.....right.

i got all the parts on ground missions...like fast too....so it was possible.

on the other hand...the weapon itself just dont feel right. its far too weak to match its look and sound, and it doest really do what you think it should. it didnt work against the sentients better than my other weapons, as it seems like it should. not at all. my fulmin with no riven was substantially more effective.

dont get me wrong, i like the shedu, its fun and i think it looks cool (i know), which is why the fact that it doesnt feel right is so disappointing.

The shedu is very similar to this weapon from Half Life 1. Similar balance (not too strong but not too weak, infinite ammo, a ripped alien arm, special gimmick, reliable). 

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by xHeretic

[UUDDLRLRBA_START]

I wish Little Duck would have had her Operation store around for a day or two after the event ended.

I still have some credits that got emailed to the Inbox late.

[ShirakawaNaoya]

Two things that make me speechless in Scarlet Spear after all the hotfixes;

• Red Hull Breach (The one that make you fail mission) that spawned on the Ramsledge/Splintrix spawn spot. <<< This need fixing. 🤦‍♂️
• All three Shedu parts dropped in one sitting and same wave on the day after crafting Shedu where it took several days of getting its Handle.🤯
   

Since it is now known that there will be re-run, DE should consider adding additional mission/objective variety to improve the event.

[akots]

 A very glitchy and monotonous event IMHO with decent rewards. DE missed an excellent opportunity to make something more interesting. I forced myself to keep going just to buy arcanes I wanted. First two week were basically wasted on bugs which made it unplayable. The rest was a pure recruitment chat and flotilla hopping routine. The missions themselves are rather trivial with minimal creativity. The whole idea is quite interesting though and with more effort, it can be really reworked into something good.

[Oreades]

21 minutes ago, UUDDLRLRBA_START said:

I wish Little Duck would have had her Operation store around for a day or two after the event ended.

I still have some credits that got emailed to the Inbox late.

Yeah I don't know why they don't extend the event stores for a period after the events themselves are over. 

 

[cha0sWyrM]

18 minutes ago, Kyronz said:

dysfunctional matchmaking since it was only flotilla wide, had to login with first 15 mins of every 3 hour block, making us play at DE's whim and not  on our schedules.

 

the matchmaking is a fair point. and the cycle was weird. it def. seemed like the whole thing took too long...and artificially so, it didnt need to be like that.

 

another matchmaking issue was, on space missions, it could be near impossible to even get in a mission at all. if you dont have a railjack, or just dont want to use it for whatever reason, now youre dependent on other players and open squads to even do the mission at all.

 

i didnt mention these things initially as i dont know anything about how matchmaking works and have no suggestions, or know if it is or isnt even possible to make it better.

[GreyDeath789]

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

you claim those were better received, but i remember just as much complaining. Everything is always "the worst update ever" then years later it "We liked that update, but this new update is the worst EVER"

Better received...absolutely. Players complaining? Always going to happen...

As for the "worst update ever" vs "we liked that update"...players complained about bugs in PoE and Fortuna...rightfully so...however the sheer amount of complaining about Railjack as a "game mode" (or play style) compared to PoE/Fortuna there is no real comparison. And then Scarlet Spear compounded the play style complaining (however play style complaints for Scarlet Spear seemed to center more around being 'boring') with a lot more bugs than a typical update contained.

When looking at being bugged just as much? Are you sure? Just comparing the hotfix count Plains of Eidolon/Fortuna both have 10 and Empyrean has 17 and Scarlet Spear has 19...so while PoE/Fortuna had bugs like (almost?) all updates do Warframe the numbers just don't compare.

Point is that the bugs (viewed as hotfixes) in PoE/Fortuna were 'normal' yet the 'game mode'/play style was better received.

Empyrean/Scarlet Spear bugs (viewed as hotfixes) were nearly double the 'normal' number as well as the 'game mode'/play style was not well received.

Memories fade...and the bad in the past seems less than the current bad...but hotfix counts don't change.

So, yes, PoE/Fortuna were better received than Empyrean/Scarlet Spear.

[GreyDeath789]

3 hours ago, xHeretic said:

I stopped reading when you said PoE wasn't bug as SS. Dude PoE was filled with bugs until 2018, the grind was insane until they reworked the mining system and introduced the new mining beam with Fortuna (and later arcanes being builted on purchase), wich was also bugged as hell. Don't try to make SS appear more bugged than those 2 expansions, but I understand why they both were that bugged tho, I don't mind and I didn't mind on that time when that content was novelty.

Simply looking at the hotfix count of PoE  (10 hotfixes) /Fortuna (10 hotfixes) with Empyrean (17 hotfixes) / Scarlet  Spear (19 hotfixes) makes it pretty clear Scarlet Spear was more buggy than PoE or Fortuna.

So, Empyrean and Scarlet Spear are more buggy compared to PoE/Fortuna and then add the player community disliking the 'game mode'/play style of the updates leads to 'worst update ever' claims.

Note that dislike for the style of the content alone would possibly make Scarlet Spear less liked than PoE/Fortuna given the sheer amount of content as well as being 'open world' in PoE/Fortuna compared to Scarlet Spear. Add the number of bugs and a tipping point seems to be reached.

[GreyDeath789]

1 hour ago, akots said:

 A very glitchy and monotonous event IMHO with decent rewards. DE missed an excellent opportunity to make something more interesting. I forced myself to keep going just to buy arcanes I wanted. First two week were basically wasted on bugs which made it unplayable. The rest was a pure recruitment chat and flotilla hopping routine. The missions themselves are rather trivial with minimal creativity. The whole idea is quite interesting though and with more effort, it can be really reworked into something good.

This seems very accurate about Scarlet Spear.

[vanaukas]

18 minutes ago, GreyDeath789 said:

Simply looking at the hotfix count of PoE  (10 hotfixes) /Fortuna (10 hotfixes) with Empyrean (17 hotfixes) / Scarlet  Spear (19 hotfixes) makes it pretty clear Scarlet Spear was more buggy than PoE or Fortuna.

So, Empyrean and Scarlet Spear are more buggy compared to PoE/Fortuna and then add the player community disliking the 'game mode'/play style of the updates leads to 'worst update ever' claims.

Note that dislike for the style of the content alone would possibly make Scarlet Spear less liked than PoE/Fortuna given the sheer amount of content as well as being 'open world' in PoE/Fortuna compared to Scarlet Spear. Add the number of bugs and a tipping point seems to be reached.

I think we should compare the updates themselves rather than the number, but welp.

[GreyDeath789]

2 minutes ago, xHeretic said:

I think we should compare the updates themselves rather than the number, but welp.

Comparing the updates (the content) would/could be difficult given the differences between them.

In an attempt to be objective (or even empirical) using hotfix counts seems appropriate.

The subjective nature of enjoyment of an update makes it difficult to provide comparisons.

PoE was the first open world content in Warframe and the player community appeared to enjoy that content despite the various bugs...thus players may not consider it the 'worst update ever'...as some players have attempted to label Scarlet Spear. There are always the outliers that complain about some part of the content and make that part of the content the measuring stick for 'good' or 'bad' content. For example, someone complaining about the mining laser in PoE compared to Fortuna...when mining was still (largely?) functional even if frustrating in PoE. Fortuna brought an "improved" mining laser and made both PoE and Fortuna mining "better"...but for those players that want to make the mining laser the point at which PoE was "as bad" as Scarlet Spear there is little anyone can do to convince them differently. A "better" mining laser didn't mean the original mining lasers were bugged and didn't work...they were just frustrating.

In Scarlet Spear, the squad link (to receive kill codes) is not just part of the content like the mining laser. The event simply doesn't work without a functional squad link capability.

Match making in Scarlet Spear is no better than PoE when going public and joining a ground squad. Space squads are a little different when there is not open squad since you have to specifically host. PoE has bounties or free roam while Scarlet Spear simply has space or ground. Ground seems to be similar to free roam of PoE when there isn't an open spot in an existing squad while space requires a decision to host or repeatedly attempt to join an existing squad.

The lack of variety within Scarlet Spear (only two options...space or ground) is different to the bounties / free roam of PoE. Is PoE "better" because of bounties / free roam? If PoE free roam is considered equivalent to the ground mission in Scarlet Spear do they provide the same 'enjoyment' for the players? (Claiming PoE free roam is equivalent to the ground mission in Scarlet Spear can be debated)

And on and on...the content is different between PoE and Scarlet Spear...so trying to compare the content would/could be difficult...so again...comparing the number of hotfixes as a measure of how 'buggy' the updates were seems more appropriate.

YMMV...but if anyone has a objective way to compare the updates I would be very interested in reviewing those comparisons.

 

[vegetosayajin]

I wish they left the big eye to fight on random locations on earth and on the last stage lv. It was a great model.

[Marine027]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Kyronz:

DE ignored bugs, had that terrible 99/100 murex "design" to punish the few who actually played the event.

Considering also PS4/XBOX had 70/70 and Swithc 50/50. SO PC got screwed once again as "free beta testers".

[Marine027]

Ignore this, double post.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Marine027

[tzadquiel]

amount of hypocrisy in this thread is exactly the reason why I stopped checking forums starting a few months back. 
half of the whiners were too busy the first 2 weeks grinding their tennoasses off to get the arcanes, the other half is the eidolon hunters who didnt want their unrewarding, boring grind to affect the arcane prices so they could be still cashing in on new players. 
 

yeah it got a bit boring after a while, but this grind could be made very efficient, and really not half as painful. ground had volt and exodia contagion synergy along with shattering impact sarpa, space had some downtime while additional limbo could nuke the sentient sacks which has earned at least 4 players I know of an umbral forma. shame it was changes along with one hotfix.

some people will just never be happy, but if you are grinding until burnout to stock on energizes only to make profit later, that is your choice I guess.
dont @ me, I dont have time for you

[Kyronz]

24 minutes ago, tzadquiel said:

amount of hypocrisy in this thread is exactly the reason why I stopped checking forums starting a few months back. 
half of the whiners were too busy the first 2 weeks grinding their tennoasses off to get the arcanes, the other half is the eidolon hunters who didnt want their unrewarding, boring grind to affect the arcane prices so they could be still cashing in on new players. 
 

yeah it got a bit boring after a while, but this grind could be made very efficient, and really not half as painful. ground had volt and exodia contagion synergy along with shattering impact sarpa, space had some downtime while additional limbo could nuke the sentient sacks which has earned at least 4 players I know of an umbral forma. shame it was changes along with one hotfix.

some people will just never be happy, but if you are grinding until burnout to stock on energizes only to make profit later, that is your choice I guess.
dont @ me, I dont have time for you

you mostly only got 1/3rd of points in first 2 weeks due to overwhelming bugs designed to disrupt bonus points and event forcing you solo,  you are very incorrect.

[irwinz]

Yes, random matchmaking was a downside.

Either you get your team in chat, or you may struggle to get you squad.

What I've encountered:

• space squad "join" leads to "no squads currently available" in a loop — not even an option to chose "wait for availability". Very questionable.
• space squad "host" leads to being stuck solo: either you do your first murex and nobody is able to join you anymore, or even if you park the satellite and sit there waiting for other players they may never come, because they don't select "join", not expecting it to work.
• ground: you select "wait for players" instead of starting solo, and wait, wait, wait... Then cancel and use console again. Now you are in a squad in few seconds! And that is way more interesting: first person in a squad means host, so when you are "waiting for players" you want them to make your clients. Now let's say you have maximum ping set to 200, and other players around you have set it to 100. If latency between you is 150, they will never join your host, but you may join theirs. Again: no option to wait for existing squad to pick you up: either you are waiting as host, or need to click-cancel-click-cancel repeatedly to find your squad.

And that's not actually SS exclusive, it's just SS made it stand out more prominent. With railjack rule "the pilot is always a host" we got an option to select whether we want to host or join at space console. Albeit not perfect, that was a step in right direction. If we get:

• option to select host or join on mission start with ability to wait for clients or wait for suitable host respectively;
• option "I'm OK to join mission in progress" which allows you to fill a free spot in endless mission after first wave. I do not have a solution for problem "squadmate disconnected, and random guy joined" — maybe squadmates should have a grace period for reconnection. People doing bazillion wave of Kuva survival won't be glad if one of them would be replaced with random guy who would just squeak "Wha?!" and die.
• and that thing always bugs me in onslaught: you join host, and then it appears they want only three waves of it. So inevitable host migration and not a full squad, time feels almost wasted. So if we had an option for people to declare their expected stay (you launch in public mode — you get an option to select for how many waves you intend to stay) and do matching with that option accounted, we might get better experience.

But that's just third world problems that bother people without manually selected squads (and I'm mostly playing with randoms, so that's me here). It can be solved the way Nightwave is, as you cannot select Nightwave challenge, like a sortie mission, and expect randoms to join you. You write in LFG chat instead. Otherwise we might eventually follow the road of "dungeon finders" with automatic role matching and everything else.

The only problem with LFG chat is that it scrolls like Twitch during raffle. If we got some kind of "LFG board", with ability to post your preferred role for mission ("Range Limbo looking for condrix team"), that will be easier: people just filter board for roles they need and ask you to join their squad without burying your LFG request under chat pile. And that burial is probably a main reason I prefer to just click "start a mission" and hope for some squad then write to the chat.

Sorry for textwall.

[(PSN)lumen2ne1]

3 hours ago, Marine027 said:

Considering also PS4/XBOX had 70/70 and Swithc 50/50. SO PC got screwed once again as "free beta testers".

Those numbers are entirely based on platform population. PC had 100 and people complained it was a low number and not having enough time to reach the 10k bonus points in many relays because a couple of well built squads would rush through them in no time. On PS4 it took almost the entire 3 hours to complete 70 murex and only in a few relays, most of them empty or nowhere near the goal. On Switch I've read here that they can't even reach 50 with their low population. It's true you're the testers, but not screwed over.

[Kaotyke]

6 hours ago, UUDDLRLRBA_START said:

I wish Little Duck would have had her Operation store around for a day or two after the event ended.

I still have some credits that got emailed to the Inbox late.

There is a thread in the front page of GD here. The madman is in the Scarlet Spear 69, get an invite from him and you will likely be able to use the store.

[Chad1661]

In addition to Arcane farming It was also could do some RJ farming in Space..  With pilot boost you should not have time to fight space fighters or cap ships, but there other things to earn and without having to grind through fighting 90 fighters and 6 cap ships.  Taking out Elite Space fighters is where you get the best RJ rewards, but there are still

- Earn Intrinisics (Not a huge amount each run, but it adds up and I now I am level 8 across the board)

- Shedu parts drop - Was able to get all the parts.   

- Obtain other RJ repair parts.  There are still other components to stock up on that are need to repair and resupply your RJ.   

To me, I was happy to be able to build the Shedu thanks to this event.   The rest of the stuff was just a side benefit (earning Arcanes, intrinsics, RJ components, etc..)

 

 

 

[Chad1661]

In addition to Arcane farming It was also could do some RJ farming in Space..  With pilot boost you should not have time to fight space fighters or cap ships, but there other things to earn and without having to grind through fighting 90 fighters and 6 cap ships.  Taking out Elite Space fighters is where you get the best RJ rewards, but there are still

- Earn Intrinisics (Not a huge amount each run, but it adds up and I now I am level 8 across the board)

- Shedu parts drop - Was able to get all the parts.   

- Obtain other RJ repair parts.  There are still other components to stock up on that are need to repair and resupply your RJ.   

To me, I was happy to be able to build the Shedu thanks to this event.   The rest of the stuff was just a side benefit (earning Arcanes, intrinsics, RJ components, etc..)

 

 

 

[Numerikuu]

17 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I think it was one of the most rewarding events ever in Warframe. We got 2 weapons, 2 cosmetics, 3 badges, access to a bunch of arcanes and a farm for rare shedu parts and intrinsics...and people still complained it was too grindy!

i challenge anyone to name an event that showered us in more rewards. Plague star comes closest, but still cant compare to practically handing out full arcane sets that previously took years to complete. 

^This, and I've been playing since 2013. While the event was pretty meh and started off super rough (the amount of creds you got at first was just awful) in the end it felt like your time spent  grinding defo felt rewarded, if not a tiny bit much lol. Came in to the event super late with only 3 days left, yet despite that I was able to get both wep bps, the simulacrum scene, the ship cosmetics and glyph, and managed to max out a whole bunch of arcanes. Literally no other event has been that generous.

[cha0sWyrM]

just a quick note on the thread itself and not the content....

 

who is jemmies and why does it say this is his thread? i posted this. did a mod combine my thread into someone else's but kept my subject title? why?

thats kinda rude....its not the same discussion...and you know....a notification is standard practice. 

 

i specifically did NOT post in jemmies thread as i disagreed with what he was saying and wanted no part of it. my post is entirely unrelated to his and its annoying that now my post is buried within his...but they kept MY subject title.

 

bad form moderator person...pretty bad form.

Edited April 29, 2020 by cha0sWyrM

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

21 hours ago, Midas said:

even a level 3500 sentient could be one shotted

Not unless you have some secret way to bypass the health gates

[Midas]

1 hour ago, (XB1)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Not unless you have some secret way to bypass the health gates

Idk what you are talking about, you can easily wack almost any enemy in the game.