DE wants a Zero Tolerance policy and that's going to destroy this game

[Kaotyke]

13 minutes ago, LascarCapable said:

I'm afraid setting up a chatbot with a good enough AI to recognise context would be very difficult.

Dont we have the /commands?

We could have DE put /rules and a list of banable offenses.

But we need to have the guilty party to receive a Warning about the reason why the ban happened, at least it will MAYBE make people stop coming in the forums with their "Why was I banned?" threads.

[Felsagger]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)shadowwraith_666 said:

that's a constantly changing area though, there is no consistency on what is considered hateful or offensive across all groups or regions.

Yes, that is the problem of context. 

But some moderators who bans others are smart. In a case explained here, a guy used a word in his language trying to hide it. He had an intention to do so hence he got banned. 

[Aadi880]

15 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

n a case explained here, a guy used a word in his language trying to hide it. He had an intention to do so hence he got banned. 

With the amount of times I had Indians say "M****chod" in chat... can confirm.

32 minutes ago, LascarCapable said:

I'm afraid setting up a chatbot with a good enough AI to recognise context would be very difficult.

I think, while it is exceedingly difficult to make it understand context, perhaps its more feasible to make it understand sentences. Tech for this already exists.

For example, here's a sentence that SHOULD be acceptable, but isn't: "[Kinetic Siphon Trap]<-- Use this. Personally, I use [Nezha] to speedrun the simaris missions". There is nothing really wrong with this sentence, but due to the inclusion of word criteria, It will cause a chat suspension.

However, making the bot understand sentences (which is not necessarily context), It won't really flag this. Sentence recognition is a technology that already exists in most speech recognition AI that often has to "respond back", so it may not be too difficult. 

Though the question arises on whether or not doing this is worth the effort, as I don't think one can "buy" AIs like this, and DE would have to make it in-house

[Sean]

Unfortunately I have zero faith that DE will handle this well, and this is mainly from a combination of my time here on the forums with some interactions with a few higher-ups and how things have been dealt with in-game. Not to mention how long the known and well documented toxicity of the chatmods went on for and the still-ongoing toxicity of some people within the Partner Program.

 

Then after all of that, them using their company account all just feels very hollow, seems more like a way for them to win "points" and not really caring about the tragedy that went on.

A company is a soulless entity, nothing will change that, and them only choosing now to start trying to claim support for something only looks hollow. Where were they for any of the past tragic events? What about in the future? There's a myriad of other global crises going on around the world, so why not talk about them, too? Wouldn't it then make more sense to shine a light on the ones that are lesser known if the goal is actually to bring awareness to something awful? Though then it becomes a matter of "Where does it end?"

Personally I feel this is all better suited for their personal accounts and not using the company one for it all, and them using this event to affect the in-game systems is only going to end poorly based on their history with it.

 

 

One thing I've always suggested was just a method to allow people to setup a blacklist of their own.

• Would be within the Options menu and affect all chat tabs
• Would allow people to add any slang term or non-English word that they don't want to see
• Would allow people who don't care about what words people use to turn it off
  • It would be ON by default
• Could even have options of "Replace blocked word with one asterisk" or "Remove full line and ignore user"

 

Automatic systems don't work and a human can't catch everything, but giving people the tools to help themselves would end up working well and not lead to some over or under censoring.

 

Fun fact: You can't use the word "Participate" within a sign in a Dojo because the word "cip" means "vagina" in a different language. Other similar words are also banned despite the tone that even DE sets in regards to fanart.

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Sean

[KosmicKerman]

I am always amazed by these threads and people complaining about bans. It's not to hard to avoid being banned. All you need to do is follow one simple rule: Don't be an a**hole. Everyone trying to engage in rules lawyering is just trying to avoid the consequences from breaking this rule.    

[SneakyErvin]

46 minutes ago, (XB1)Cram Duahcim said:

Its across the board. If your gunna say something racist, homophobic anything related to anything considered hateful, your going to get banned. 

I just hope they cover all fronts properly and equally. Racism and hatered has no limits, so even the more "innocent" comments should be cracked down on without prejudice. Be it a guy implying women are stupid, a white hood wearing bigot calling someone the N word, a homophobe expressing his narrow view or an angry "feminist" doing what the guy did in reverse or anything in between, it should all be treated the same way with the same end result.

This is also why I hope they make sweeping changes towards their partner program, so people that currently hide under a specific flag will get swept away along with their "reversed bigotry".

[Rakosta_Kai]

27 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

I want more.

I have always wanted chat bots, be they human or AI based, to crackdown on the language and BS in chats in games to drive away the gamers who think such things are cool.

Seriously.

I wish that tthey would tighten the thing up so much that these immature bad apples in our community would simply walk away from gaming entirely.

I say, turn up the screws, make these people mad and make them leave, IMO, they don't deserve to play games with reasonsble people. 

I might then actually use any of the 'game wide' types of chats in game to actually play the game with others, rather than having to turn them off entirely just to be able to play the games in peace.

🙂 

Draconian measures to ensure compliance are historically the worst way to encourage cooperation. 

Chat bots won't stop derisive or abusive language...People will figure out a way around it and troll new players instead (like now)

It also won't stop people being generally negative or derisive in chat (precisely why I avoid chat)

They won't stop abuse in Voice Chat (I doubt anything will).

The only thing a chat bot has shown to effectively stop is people playing...whether intentional or not.

 

An in-game reporting feature that works without the hoops of the current one? That would curb behavior over time.

A word replacement chat bot that literally replaces banned words with something silly like "petunia" or "Fireworks" seems a much more approachable solution imo as it reduces the need to report at all for the use of banned words.

Suddenly "Nezha" and words like "Tr*p" in the same sentence becomes "Nezha is a petunia" ... That seems like less of a potential issue.

If DE really wanted to punish offenders they could create a rule that says activating the word replacement feature 30 times in the same day activates an open chat time-out feature of 24 hours.

That said, I've no clues how DE intends to handle it but hope it's implemented and managed more carefully and objectively than the last measure was.

[(PSN)NWOslave]

If this pertains to region chat, the best zero tolerance would be to disable it altogether. from what i have personally viewed,  im not sure what benifit it serves. if there is a way to disable it on my end let me know i dont even want to see it.

[Sean]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)NWOslave said:

If this pertains to region chat, the best zero tolerance would be to disable it altogether. from what i have personally viewed,  im not sure what benifit it serves. if there is a way to disable it on my end let me know i dont even want to see it.

 

I can't speak for certainty about the consoles, but I assume it is the same as PC.

Within the Options menu, there's a tab labeled "Chat", and from there you can disable Region Chat.

Though I don't think these changes that DE are planning are going to stop at Region Chat.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Sean

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

9 minutes ago, Sean said:

can't speak for certainty about the consoles, but I assume it is the same as PC.

Yeah it's like that on consoles too

[SneakyErvin]

15 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

A word replacement chat bot that literally replaces banned words with something silly like "petunia" or "Fireworks" seems a much more approachable solution imo as it reduces the need to report at all for the use of banned words.

Suddenly "Nezha" and words like "Tr*p" in the same sentence becomes "Nezha is a petunia" ... That seems like less of a potential issue.

 

While that would be good the problem would still be there that we cant use very common words. Are we even allowed to refer to Vauban's minelayer abilities as traps? A word that is very commonly used in several games out there to describe anything that triggers when placed on the ground. And what happens when we get a frame with an actual trap skill.

How does X's petunia skill actually work? Does X's fireworks skill benefit from strength?

DE needs to actually solve their chat issues properly. It would be better if they had manual reporting where both false reports aswell as actual chat abuse would be punished. So we could actually talk about skills etc. in the game chat without the fear of getting banned or run the risk of no one understanding wtf we are actually trying to say. Sure an actual report system would take more manpower, but it would be needed if they want a zero tolerance policy that doesnt turn out silly and restrictive for the actual enjoyment of the game.

They can still have a chat filter for actual deregatory words, but as it is right now the system is so overly sensitive and infringes on the actual game.

[(PSN)NWOslave]

13 minutes ago, Sean said:

 

I can't speak for certainty about the consoles, but I assume it is the same as PC.

Within the Options menu, there's a tab labeled "Chat", and from there you can disable Region Chat.

Though I don't think these changes that DE are planning is going to stop at Region Chat.

ill look into that, thank you.

ive only seen two people get spicy outside of region chat and it was in a pub eidolon hunt. the people were upset the random group they joined was not a cohesive unit as s/he expected us to be. jokes on them.

Edited June 5, 2020 by (PS4)NWOslave
clarrification

[Sean]

Just now, Duduminador said:

You all asked for this.

It could have been a inclusive community. You all chose the opposite. The playerbase, not the devs.

Because if somebody relates to someone else, and voices in favor of a group, you choose to silence that person. You never stoped to think that it has NO IMPACT whatsoever in your game. Minorities wont, charities wont. Siding with someone wont. But you choose to lot allow it anyways.

 

In my experience, the community has been inclusive.

I've seen numerous people helping those that ask and if the subject of a person's belief/background somehow comes up, it rarely ends up being an issue.

There will always be those hateful idiots out there, but it is best to report/ignore them and to not give them any thought as that is what they want. People like that want you to think about them further as it makes them feel like they aren't nothings.

[MacKerris]

Censorship and enforcing your belief system on another never turns out well.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

A progressive company that panders and virtue signals is now going to define what hate speech will be and will then apply that definition equally across the board. This will definitely be fair, unbiased and impartial.

[White_Matter]

100% agree with you on this one.

Draconian dictatorship = bad

I love how companies try to get more authoritarian under the guise of "protecting people." Is it too hard to flat out admit that you just want more control over people ? I guess so.

Soon the word "free" will be removed from everyone's dictionaries.

[SneakyErvin]

People here make it sound as if DE is doing something unique. What is unique in this case is DE not having a zero tolerance policy for their global chat already, and it is long overdue.

[ES-Flinter]

165 answers in around 7h. That would be around three posts per minute.

Anyone who can sum up for me what I did miss? I would like to join this conservation without repeating anything.

[LascarCapable]

2 minutes ago, ES-Flinter said:

165 answers in around 7h. That would be around three posts per minute.

Anyone who can sum up for me what I did miss? I would like to join this conservation without repeating anything.

Reading the OP would be enough of a sum up : DE is planning to set up a zero tolerance policy on hate speech.

[Aldain]

Just now, ES-Flinter said:

Anyone who can sum up for me what I did miss? I would like to join this conservation without repeating anything.

Aside from the inflammatory things that have been deleted, it has mostly been a simple back and forth of if it is a good thing or not.

Some like me, lean on the heavy caution due to how easy it can be for such a system to be abused or have negative spillover if too broad.

Others are in favor of it because there are many real cases where something should have been in place.

For the record I'm not saying that they are wrong, only that it needs to be done right, or else it can cause more problems than it solves.

[WERElektro]

How...... HOW . THE . HELL is making the use of racist slurs in a CHAT a ban -able offense going to destroy the entire video game?

This thread title is extremely misleading and it's only purpose is to get people all riled up. Sorry to say that... but this is beyond pathetic.

The thread title should be edited.

A zero tolerance policy isn't going to ruin your frikkin videogames. Calm down and wait.

Know what Op? I'll tell you sth:

I got 2 warning points ere (2014... been a while).... one for using a homophobe slur (to describe the scum that DDOS'd WF ) WITHOUT knowing it was homophobe (language barrier).

Know what? I deserved it. I've learned that it's a slur and that it's wrong to use it.

 

 

[KittySkin]

Ill be doing the only sane thing. Just play the game, disable all chat channels and enjoy my online time without any kind of non friend communication.

[jakey1995abc]

The fact that they put "zero-tolerance" and "hate speech" implies that instant action could be taken against anyone for even mentioning any form of group in a negative light. Hell, if I mentioned the developers of the game in this post, I could technically be punished for it.

[Gabbynaru]

3 minutes ago, jakey1995abc said:

Hell, if I mentioned the developers of the game in this post, I could technically be punished for it.

Well yeah, dev bashing is literally rule 1b. You don't even need this policy to be enacted, dev bashing is already covered by the current rules.

[jakey1995abc]

2 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Well yeah, dev bashing is literally rule 1b. You don't even need this policy to be enacted, dev bashing is already covered by the current rules.

But constructive feedback would need to be removed as it is opinion based. They may view it as a negative comment (zero tolerance), whilst others agree with what is said as being constructive.