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Kuva Bramma Changes: Explanation and Timeline.


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How much Time and effort have you put on farming for Brammas....

how much money did you spend to buy plat, to buy bramma riven.

how much fun did you have?

how much attention did you get for such effort on your part?

well say GOODBYE!! because DE is going to stomp on that hard earn, hours of grinding sweat and smile down to dust!

so whats your next favorite weapon or frame? it better not be the higest used weapon because that is going to be next on the grinder. so if you like a certain weapon DONT PLAY IT! am I right? or am I right?

Edited by (PS4)manila_X
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So on top of all this, a few good ways to actually bring down the Bramma spam?

  • Gut it's max ammo to 7, and make it incompatible with ammo mutation mods
  • This should gut most of the Bramma's spam, and make the ammo economy actually matter since you can't just Vigilante Supplies or Primed Arrow Mutation your way out of it.
  • Change it's draw speed to 1 second instead of 0.40 seconds
  • Nothing this powerful should be this fast!  The Lenz, Bramma's only competitor in the 'what if bow but explosives' category, takes three times as long to charge and fire a shot off, and even has a delay between shot impact and explosion!  Slowing the Bramma down would, combined with the lower maximum ammo, force it's users to carefully consider their shots.
  • Four bomblets instead of seven, and how the bow impacts affects their spread - Mid-flight detonation results in a + pattern, while impacting the ground/walls/enemies results in an X pattern.  Bomblet radius/falloff changes from this set of notes apply.
  • Removing the randomization from bomblets means, again, your shots need to be considered for cleaning out the hordes.

Bramma should be a very powerful weapon, which is why I'm not touching it's damage/cc/cd/sc at all, but rather slowing it down.

 

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6 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

 .... Uhhhh, cool, I guess?.... You okay dude? Think you're a bit confused about the context of this post, I'm talking about the Bramma, not the Simulacor.

You dont get it huh? lol Well I don't know if I can help you than. All crazy AOE weapons will get nerfed if the game mechanic is dead. Bramma shoot at random walls and kill hoards of enemies. lol Hope you under strand now.

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37 minutes ago, (PS4)manila_X said:

How much Time and effort have you put on farming for Brammas....

how much money did you spend to buy plat, to buy bramma riven.

how much fun did you have?

how much attention did you get for such effort on your part?

well say GOODBYE!! because DE is going to stomp on that hard earn, hours of grinding sweat and smile down to dust!

so whats your next favorite weapon or frame? it better not be the higest used weapon because that is going to be next on the grinder. so if you like a certain weapon DONT PLAY IT! am I right? or am I right?

This isn't accurate.  Much as I hate to be 'that guy', the Bramma, as it stands, is simply way too powerful.  Plus, this isn't the first time they've made changes to guns after the fact, cough Tonkor cough.  And this set of changes isn't even that bad.  You lose 66% of your maximum ammo and can't (as) easily Vigilante Supplies/Ammo Mutation/Carrier your way out of this, you lose 4 bomblets, but the remaining three are somewhat empowered and, more importantly, your core stats, your Crits, your Damage, your Statuses, aren't touched.  What perplexes me is the charge rate going untouched.

Edited by Sintag
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You are wrong in that regard. The Bramma was just too much. Massive AoE damage, lots of ammo and firing fast. It also blinded everyone unlucky enough to be in the same team. Buffing other weapons to Bramma levels would be even more terrible.

Edited by Prexades
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6 hours ago, kwlingo said:

You dont get it huh? lol Well I don't know if I can help you than. All crazy AOE weapons will get nerfed if the game mechanic is dead. Bramma shoot at random walls and kill hoards of enemies. lol Hope you under strand now.

Nope, I don't really "under strand" nor do I have the time to watch some boring dude talking about a Simulacor. So nope, I don't get whatever point you're trying to make. It's AOE, killing hoardes is the intention. You seem to be under the impression that I was looking for "help", that was almost funny, I'm not but if I was I'm sure you aren't capable enough to provide said 'help' to anyone since your approach is hostility. But you do seem awfully riled up by all of this so you resulting to hostility is expected and a pretty big indicator that your point might not be worth much of my time in the first place 🙂 

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16 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Tactical Potato has a video on it, should be his latest.

If you saw that video and listened to what he said, then you also heared that announced changes can hardly be called "nerfs" with a detailed explanation. This is just drama for Bramma sake.

16 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Please, stop nerfing and instead make even better OP weapons.

Are you aware of the consequences you demand? Loza03 already asked you a very important question, a question you ignored. Just imagine how something more powerfull would look like, how it would perform or how it would overtake hundreds of weapons in this power creep race.

15 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

With a MR fodder weapon you aren't taking down any Heavies/Nox's in a hit or two dude

15 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

So you're saying an MK-1 Braton/Paris would be a viable replacement for a Bramma/Rubico/Dread/Baza Prime/Kuva Drakgoon? Seems like a far fetch mate.

 

 

15 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

They'd just have to say they nerfed the Bramma, and a bunch of players would drop the weapon and say it's worst thing ever.

Ironically, this is exactly what happened here.

Edited by ShortCat
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On 2020-06-09 at 1:47 AM, Kouden said:

the day will come when players had enough with the nerfs and then quit in masses bcs they wont take this crap anymore. and then DE will go down and blame themselfes for it and wish they had not done it at all. mark my words tenno... it will happen

cant say the same about other ppl who get tired of kuva bramma meta and plays less because of it?

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Simple, think what makes bramma good. No, it isn’t the damage, and no it isn’t the usability. If its good because of the damage then the opticor would be a better weapon because of its higher damage. It also can’t be good because of its usability because its easier to hit enemies with literally any hit scan weapon in the game. No, its the AOE that makes bramma good and what makes all other aoe weapons good. In warframe, there are a lot of enemies, and there is so much enemies that aoe weapons are 99% of the time better because you can kill them faster, thus giving you more survivability and being able to finish the mission faster. 
 

Now take something like the Soma Prime. If you compare it to bramma you can see that there is no competition on which is better. Why? Because soma doesn’t have aoe, it’s because soma’s bullets doesn’t EXPLODE. While you’re out there shooting people in the face with your soma, your teammate is busy nuking the entire freaking map. The only way Soma can ever compare to bramma is by making its bullets gain aoe which is you can probably agree is stupid.

 

YoU CaN’t CoMpArE bOwS tO rIfLeS

 

Yes, yes I can and we should because they’re both primaries. The problem that bramma is causing is that it’s being spammed everywhere because it’s literally the best weapon to use. No other primary can kill faster than the bramma and even if you prefer another primary you will be still technically sabotaging yourself by not using bramma because it’s lightyears better. Bramma creates a lack of choice meaning people have no reason to use other weapons, and honestly that just tells you its overpowered straight up. 
 

So what do we do? Do we turn every single primary into something like the bramma to balance everything out? NO, because that will remove the identity of the other primaries in the game and they will literally become a poor man’s bramma. So what’s an easier solution? Nerf the weapon to be on line with everything else. Done.

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6 hours ago, ShortCat said:

If you saw that video and listened to what he said, then you also heared that announced changes can hardly be called "nerfs" with a detailed explanation. This is just drama for Bramma sake.

Are you aware of the consequences you demand? Loza03 already asked you a very important question, a question you ignored. Just imagine how something more powerfull would look like, how it would perform or how it would overtake hundreds of weapons in this power creep race.

 

 

Ironically, this is exactly what happened here.

Eh, at this point it's all speculation, you see horror thinking about more OP weapons, I see more reasons for fun. About the MK-1 bit, so one guy did a  video about it, doesn't give me any reason to think it's a viable replacement for anything I use atm, he even admits he's only doing it for the luls. And if I ignored a question it's because my concern for this is fleeting, there's no "Bramma drama", I just don't like the idea of nerfing it or any other weapon in any way.

6 hours ago, (PS4)KyleXY12345 said:

Simple, think what makes bramma good. No, it isn’t the damage, and no it isn’t the usability. If its good because of the damage then the opticor would be a better weapon because of its higher damage. It also can’t be good because of its usability because its easier to hit enemies with literally any hit scan weapon in the game. No, its the AOE that makes bramma good and what makes all other aoe weapons good. In warframe, there are a lot of enemies, and there is so much enemies that aoe weapons are 99% of the time better because you can kill them faster, thus giving you more survivability and being able to finish the mission faster. 
 

Now take something like the Soma Prime. If you compare it to bramma you can see that there is no competition on which is better. Why? Because soma doesn’t have aoe, it’s because soma’s bullets doesn’t EXPLODE. While you’re out there shooting people in the face with your soma, your teammate is busy nuking the entire freaking map. The only way Soma can ever compare to bramma is by making its bullets gain aoe which is you can probably agree is stupid.

 

YoU CaN’t CoMpArE bOwS tO rIfLeS

 

Yes, yes I can and we should because they’re both primaries. The problem that bramma is causing is that it’s being spammed everywhere because it’s literally the best weapon to use. No other primary can kill faster than the bramma and even if you prefer another primary you will be still technically sabotaging yourself by not using bramma because it’s lightyears better. Bramma creates a lack of choice meaning people have no reason to use other weapons, and honestly that just tells you its overpowered straight up. 
 

So what do we do? Do we turn every single primary into something like the bramma to balance everything out? NO, because that will remove the identity of the other primaries in the game and they will literally become a poor man’s bramma. So what’s an easier solution? Nerf the weapon to be on line with everything else. Done.

I would agree but in many missions I end up with 100/200 more kills more than someone using a Bramma when I'm not. There's no grand gain from killing tons more enemies either way. It's all about the mission objective one way or another so I don't see it as one player being better than another based purely on kills and thus needing to use a Bramma all the time. I don't see any reason for any weapon to be brought to another's level, they're all supposed to be unique to some degree otherwise what's the point of building any of em. Making everything equal is pointless when by design that would make no thematic sense, we're using sci-fi weapons yet they should all behave like guns from the 21st century? An explosive bow does what it's meant to, nuke hordes, that's a whole lot more fun than emptying clips into enemies that simply run and shoot at ya. It's not some grand duel, 1v1, a test of skills and timing, we're always on a massacre fest. Getting through those hordes quicker though is much more fun since they don't inherently pose much of a challenge, they're cannon fodder so why not treat them as such.  

Edited by StormWolf1337
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HAHA players who use the Lenz won't notice much of a difference, they already use a 5 round mag except the 5 rounds the Lenz uses is created by the bow, the Bramma will still be stronger but with a little less ammo they must find.. 😛 

 

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15 hours ago, (PS4)LegionOfZoom1410 said:

not coming she was already nerfed once there's 0 reason to nerf her again she is finally in a great place & you people cry uncle for a nerf.. go play Call of Duty if you hate OP weapons that bad..

Yeah she needs nerfed like every thing thats good. Nerf Bramma saryn needs nerfed then.Cause people like both .Its fair.Screw call duty i havent played it since they stopped doing ww2 content years ago.Also why nerf ?why not bring unused weapons up to par?I worked hard to farm my bramma and max element so now im being punished cause of people who dont like it.Fix the other weapons first.

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6 minutes ago, HIGHDAMAGE said:

make it a high mr weapon something like 25+ like a goal to archive and let it be

Bramma is effectively an mr5 weapon.

Because it bypasses mr restrictions being a kuva weapon.

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19 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Bramma is effectively an mr5 weapon.

Because it bypasses mr restrictions being a kuva weapon.

then kuva weapons must be properly addressed the grind + 5 forma should be worth it

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6 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Nope, I don't really "under strand" nor do I have the time to watch some boring dude talking about a Simulacor. It's AOE, killing hoardes is the intention. You seem to be under the impression that I was looking for "help", that was almost funny, I'm not but if I was I'm sure you aren't capable enough to provide said 'help' to anyone since your approach is hostility. But you do seem awfully riled up by all of this so you resulting to hostility is expected and a pretty big indicator that your point might not be worth much of my time in the first place 🙂 

lol seems like someone is heated. I happy for the nerf and possible the Saryn nerf it will eventually get.

I love it when players cannot handle DE's balance.

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1 hour ago, StormWolf1337 said:

I just don't like the idea of nerfing it or any other weapon in any way.

Well, and children do not like vegetables, yet those are necessary. Seems there is no purpose in this discussion, since you were not intending to discuss anything in the first palce.

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While I understand the reason for this nerf i feel that other weapons need more fun the reason i use the bramma is cause its fun. I would much rather have a damage nerf rather than an explosions nerf I think that all the explosions make it fun to use and the bramma is one of the few weapon that can even compare to melee weapons right now so I also used it as an alternative to my melee

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18 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Don't keep nerfing, make better weapons.

I wrote a similar thing time and time again. All weapons should get some love and, especially the high MR ones, be worth their position in the food chain.
The Bramma is, however, an exception, because it requires below zero skills to nuke entire crowds: this is bad for the entire game, we definitely don't need to make it even easier than it already is.

I'm totally ok with powerful weapons that destroy everything in one hit, as long as some degree of skill is required to achieve such goal.

Randomly facerolling through the map shooting without even aiming and getting the same result = no

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5 ammo is way too low, don't even know what DE is thinking and this is not the way to balance a weapon "lets keep it strong but we wont allow you to use it for anything else other than crowd shooting or you wont even have ammo anymore", like seriously.

How about bringing it in line, balance it properly, and allow players to use it without having to pick up ammo ever 10 seconds, cause if there arnt enough enemies or your shooting one strong enemy, or enemies become too high level, you wont even be able to use the bramma anymore.

And here I was thinking 15 ammo was already low, sad how DE makes weapons either OP or useless.

Low level crowd shooter, thats all bramma will be good for now...

Edited by IIAc3sII
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On 2020-06-09 at 7:01 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tenno -

If you’ve been plugged into the community discourse since the self damage changes, you’ll have seen a lot of discussions about the Kuva Bramma. 

What makes this formerly self-damaging weapon so much more dominant than the others?

It has quickly taken the place at the top of the usage charts - which is where it should be given its acquisition - but the degree of dominance (about 3 times more popular than anything else) is not something we feel is good for the primary weapon Arsenal options.

We are changing it so that:

- It has a smaller reserve ammo (15 to 5), and gains fewer arrows from ammo pickups - This is to encourage players to aim the bow deliberately at crowds of enemies and not fire it wildly everywhere
- Fewer cluster bombs are produced on impact (from 7 to 3) - Reduces the overwhelming AOE potential somewhat but also makes the Bramma less visually busy. Players have said that the many many explosions produced by Bramma are hard to see through.
- Increased cluster projectile radial attack size from 2.7m to 3.5m
- Reduced cluster projectile fall off from 100% to 50% - Fewer explosive fragments, but they cover more area and generally do more damage

We will be monitoring feedback after these changes go live to ensure we’ve struck a better balance of having a powerful weapon - but not one that overshadows everything else in the game to the detriment of your squadmates.

You will see these changes in Update 28: The Deadlock Protocol, and we can discuss feedback once they are in your hands.

Until then, Tenno! 

Previous warframe stream or devstream, i remember it being said by DE that INSTEAD OF NERFING the good weapons, DE would be bringing the less used or favoured weapons up to a better standard instead of nerfing the good weapons we love.
I turned the graphics fx down and have no problems seeing the game when bramma is used.

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On 2020-06-08 at 11:01 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tenno -

If you’ve been plugged into the community discourse since the self damage changes, you’ll have seen a lot of discussions about the Kuva Bramma. 

What makes this formerly self-damaging weapon so much more dominant than the others?

It has quickly taken the place at the top of the usage charts - which is where it should be given its acquisition - but the degree of dominance (about 3 times more popular than anything else) is not something we feel is good for the primary weapon Arsenal options.

 

@DE Rebecca: it's all your own fault.

If MR5 players can access what should be MR25+ this will completely derail any usage statistic you'd care to check, simply because they won't get any better weapons that those, ever!

So making changes and adjustment based on skewed data won't solve the problem.

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