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Kuva Bramma Changes: Explanation and Timeline.


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On 2020-06-08 at 5:01 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

What makes this formerly self-damaging weapon so much more dominant than the others?

The fact that most of those weapons are complete garbage?

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On 2020-06-08 at 4:01 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tenno -

If you’ve been plugged into the community discourse since the self damage changes, you’ll have seen a lot of discussions about the Kuva Bramma. 

What makes this formerly self-damaging weapon so much more dominant than the others?

It has quickly taken the place at the top of the usage charts - which is where it should be given its acquisition - but the degree of dominance (about 3 times more popular than anything else) is not something we feel is good for the primary weapon Arsenal options.

We are changing it so that:

- It has a smaller reserve ammo (15 to 5), and gains fewer arrows from ammo pickups - This is to encourage players to aim the bow deliberately at crowds of enemies and not fire it wildly everywhere
- Fewer cluster bombs are produced on impact (from 7 to 3) - Reduces the overwhelming AOE potential somewhat but also makes the Bramma less visually busy. Players have said that the many many explosions produced by Bramma are hard to see through.
- Increased cluster projectile radial attack size from 2.7m to 3.5m
- Reduced cluster projectile fall off from 100% to 50% - Fewer explosive fragments, but they cover more area and generally do more damage

We will be monitoring feedback after these changes go live to ensure we’ve struck a better balance of having a powerful weapon - but not one that overshadows everything else in the game to the detriment of your squadmates.

You will see these changes in Update 28: The Deadlock Protocol, and we can discuss feedback once they are in your hands.

Until then, Tenno! 

I don't think these changes will be enough to make people change from over-using the Kuva Bramma imo. It's very easy to bypass any ammo restriction via mods or Carrier. The increased range and decrease of the fall-off damage sounds like it will actually help the Kuva bramma be an even more effective spam heavy weapon. I don't have high hopes of these changes making much impact and I'm guessing the Kuva Bramma will still actually remain as most over-used primary. I think more changes to the Kuva Bramma, would be needed to try and further address the issue.

Edited by BlindStalker
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2 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

I think we're all adults here with better things in our life to do than care about kill counts or elitism 🙂

I wish I had that much optimism.

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10 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Please, stop nerfing and instead make even better OP weapons

Are you serious...? Lol Another power creep fantasy player. Just allow this game play on level 20 and under. If you go above this, change the weapon design completely so to caters to both group's. Is you cannot carry the new mechanic in over level 20 enemies with aiming, just stay on mission under level 20.

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7 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

Are you serious...? Lol Another power creep fantasy player. Just allow this game play on level 20 and under. If you go above this, change the weapon design completely so to caters to both group's. Is you cannot carry the new mechanic in over level 20 enemies with aiming, just stay on mission under level 20.

I count almost 5 points made there and all 5 being incorrect assumptions. I won't debate incorrect assumptions as that's a waste of time. But yes, I am serious, I don't see the correlation between that and a "power creep fantasy player". Much less so considering we're all already playing power fantasy themed characters in a space ninja power fantasy game.

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On 2020-06-08 at 2:01 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tenno -

If you’ve been plugged into the community discourse since the self damage changes, you’ll have seen a lot of discussions about the Kuva Bramma. 

What makes this formerly self-damaging weapon so much more dominant than the others?

It has quickly taken the place at the top of the usage charts - which is where it should be given its acquisition - but the degree of dominance (about 3 times more popular than anything else) is not something we feel is good for the primary weapon Arsenal options.

We are changing it so that:

- It has a smaller reserve ammo (15 to 5), and gains fewer arrows from ammo pickups - This is to encourage players to aim the bow deliberately at crowds of enemies and not fire it wildly everywhere
- Fewer cluster bombs are produced on impact (from 7 to 3) - Reduces the overwhelming AOE potential somewhat but also makes the Bramma less visually busy. Players have said that the many many explosions produced by Bramma are hard to see through.
- Increased cluster projectile radial attack size from 2.7m to 3.5m
- Reduced cluster projectile fall off from 100% to 50% - Fewer explosive fragments, but they cover more area and generally do more damage

We will be monitoring feedback after these changes go live to ensure we’ve struck a better balance of having a powerful weapon - but not one that overshadows everything else in the game to the detriment of your squadmates.

You will see these changes in Update 28: The Deadlock Protocol, and we can discuss feedback once they are in your hands.

Until then, Tenno! 

 

15 to 5... that is too much, have your devs test it having only 5 ammo you'll kill the fun. 10 should be ok but dont reduce the ammo pick ups you'll render this weapon unplayable.

remove the cluster projectile fall that is fine and reduce radius of the blast slightly, dont nerf it to the ground.

 

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10 minutes ago, (PS4)manila_X said:

 

15 to 5... that is too much, have your devs test it having only 5 ammo you'll kill the fun. 10 should be ok but dont reduce the ammo pick ups you'll render this weapon unplayable.

remove the cluster projectile fall that is fine and reduce radius of the blast slightly, dont nerf it to the ground.

 

that's DE for ya. either they don't do anything, or nerf to irreleventness. Tonkor or Ember says hi.

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Adding my voice to the following:

  • The weapon is not nerfed. We have the Exilus slot. People are overreacting. It will continue to do constant screenshakes and puffs of smoke to block anything that needs aim.
  • Nuke frames and melee have nothing to do with love/hate for Brama. Bramma hurts others' gameplay much, much more.
  • Please add back self-damage. For me, that was fun. Not reviving an obnoxious explosion spammer was also fun. Chroma players will be glad. Being able to suicide with an arch-gun was a free "fix yourself from this bug" option.

Related to self-damage, please, remove the stagger from that Amp flak alt-fire.

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Got the bramma a few hours ago and have forma'd it 2 or 3 times already. I never thought I would say this but I may be replacing one of the elemental mods with ammo drum when the nerf hits. The bramma (post nerf) with ammo drum should have 9 shots and you only need one elemental mod to get one of those combined damage types. 

After testing, the damage from hunters munitions is still damn good even with less elemental damage and I'd rather have those 4 extra shots before needing ammo (using ammo conversion mods) Personal preference though. Could try aoe range increase. That said, not sure how the reduction of cluster bombs will effect it.

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10小时前 , (XB1)Calliber 说:

Same, Frame diversity is in a good spot right now. 

They just release the userate chart a while ago so dont say that.

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hace 3 horas, (XB1)Th3BelovedSaint dijo:

Repito lo que he dicho antes. elegir un arma para matar, y sí, has matado esta arma, según lo popular que sea, es miope. has cumplido la profecía de los detractores de The Old Blood al convertir el Bramma en otra arma de forraje MR. Clasifíquelo y luego tírelo o deje que acumule polvo digital en su arsenal y continúe con el siguiente arma de forraje MR. La afirmación de que estás equilibrando el juego es, en el mejor de los casos, cansada y cada vez más coja. Se trata de quitar algo que los jugadores realmente encontraron divertido. Quitar las armas que la gente considera divertidas no les hará decir "¡Oh! ¡Ahora tengo muchas ganas de usar el Convectrix! ¨ ¡Lo que hace es matar el deseo de que realmente les guste cualquier arma nueva que pongan en el juego porque sabemos que, tan pronto como nos guste y comience a usarla, simplemente castrarlo. Si quieres que la gente use otras armas, ¡haz que las armas que quieres que la gente use BUENO! La excusa que escuché usar a Pablo en una entrevista reciente de, esencialmente, hay tantas armas en el juego que tomaría demasiado esfuerzo hacerlas buenas, es simplemente flojo. En general, este es el mejor juego multijugador en línea que he jugado. En general, esta es la mejor y más amigable comunidad en línea en juegos. Dicho esto, bombardear cosas porque son populares es un juicio pobre y aquellos en este foro que han animado la castración de los Bramma no están demostrando las mejores cualidades de la comunidad. Hay muchas cosas por las que me pueden molestar los escuadrones públicos, PERO, son escuadrones públicos. Si estoy lo suficientemente molesto, terminaré la misión en la que estoy y me pondré solo o invitaré a oly o amigos solamente. ¡No me quejo ni me quejo a DE para que les quite algo a quienes lo disfrutan porque es un JUEGO y, por lo tanto, deberían DIVERTIRSE! Tengo que preguntarme cuántos de los que celebran el paralizador del Bramma serían tan engreídos si DE decidiera atacar a Nidus. Quiero decir, usando la lógica que he visto para este cambio, estaría justificado. Quiero decir, él es muy popular, ¿verdad? Nuke Nidus, tiene un sonido agradable. Hace un buen canto. Y como Bill Murray señaló en Meatballs, mientras tengas un buen canto, ¡las palabras del canto simplemente no importan! ¿Correcto? Nuke Nidus, tiene un sonido agradable. Hace un buen canto. Y como Bill Murray señaló en Meatballs, mientras tengas un buen canto, ¡las palabras del canto simplemente no importan! ¿Correcto? Nuke Nidus, tiene un sonido agradable. Hace un buen canto. Y como Bill Murray señaló en Meatballs, mientras tengas un buen canto, ¡las palabras del canto simplemente no importan!🙂 Y, no, ni siquiera estoy cerca de un Bramma main. En cuanto a que los remaches son demasiado caros, no me afecta porque no tengo interés en comprar uno. Continuaré apilando tus armas de forraje MR en el montón de basura. No invertiré en forma para ellos, ya que no tiene sentido. Solo vas a cortar sus tripas de todos modos. He invertido bastante en el juego. Todavía disfruto el juego, pero si esta manera de, Jaja, equilibrar el juego continúa, llegará un momento en que me alejaré mientras todavía puedo recordarlo con cariño. Esto no es para tirar a la basura a nadie. Amo el juego y amo a la comunidad (Sí, incluso Nidus 🙂 ) y quiero que la historia de éxito de DE continúe. Por favor, piense en una mejor manera de aumentar la diversidad del uso de armas que no sea hacer que una buena arma sea inútil. ¡¡POR FAVOR!!

 

el mejor comentario de todos

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En ves de nerfear esta arma, por que mejor no mejoran armas como la Stug, Argonak, Hema ( que es una idiotez conseguirla invirtiendo tanto en su investigación, solo para que ses una mas aumentar el MR), Harpak, Quellor, Komorex, Phantasma, Phage, Dual Toxocyst, Snipetron, Torid, Fusilai, Hikou, Kunai, Convectrix, Tetra, Panthera, Miter, Dera, Atomos, Embolst, Gammacor, Acrid, Cycron, Gunsen, Okina, Serro Kestrel Magistar, yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy un GRAN ETC por delante, nerfear armas y Rivens en este juego que se basa PvE no tiene sentido alguno, ya es tedioso invertir tiempo en algo solo para que te pateen en el rostro y luego te sonrían, y esperen que tu sigas sin decir nada, como si nada hubiera pasado

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11 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Huh..

I love finding a Saryn in my public ESO. She spores them and I melee them and together we do 8 rounds plus in ESO. I find ways to enjoy seeing others have fun. Some seem put out if another player outkills/outdamages them. Not me. I watch and learn. If I want all the kills, I solo a sortie. 

 

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On 2020-06-08 at 5:06 PM, Seditious_Spyke said:

why are we not allowed Nice things?

theres a difference between something being “nice” and something being broken.

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Dear DE,

This coming Thangsgiving week will mark 3 years that I have been playing Warframe along with my husband. Our teen son has been playing it for over four years. It took him a year of convincing me to try Warframe before I finally did. As an artist, the beauty of the game environment, the warframes, and everything else is what hooked me. I grew to love this game and I am not easy to win over to games. Part of this is due to the fact that I have a personal limit on how many video games I will play and how much of my valuable personal time I will devote to a game. (Minecraft, Skyrim, Warframe, and just recently, HollowKnight, and that's it.) I have devoted A LOT of time to Warframe to become MR25 and my family are Warlords of our Dojo. Like many other Tenno who have commented here, we have used a lot of resources and platinum to do the things in the game that we wanted to do. So for me to take an hour or so of my time to write this and then edit it half a dozen times before I post it, should indicate how much I care for DE as a company, Warframe as a game, and the wonderful Warframe community. I am very concerned that DE is becoming undone by its own immense success: they are not thinking like general players but everything is tied strictly to numbers, and not the REASON(S) behind the numbers. DE, please do not fall prey to this mentality. I do not want to leave a game I love this much, into which I have invested money, game resources, and valuable time, but if some of the Cons listed below continue, then there may come a day when I leave and it will break my heart to do so, but I would rather leave still liking the game and have fond memories of it rather than leave hating it.

On to Pros and Cons . . . the Pros first:

DE has done something with Warframe that is a rarity in the sense of immersion into a universe as the player. It took an immense amount of intestinal fortitude (guts) for the initial group to say that they were going to create their game the way they envisioned it and moved to another country to do so. The main questline and all of the game lore enrich the new player's experience. I like having to solve puzzles to earn the reward at the end of something. The graphics of the game are movie-quality and have generally only improved over time. For the first two years of playing Warframe, I found it fun, not just a grind for EACH new thing/event/quest that was dropped. One of the absolute best drops within the past 12 months was the Dog Days event at the end of last August and beginning of September. Sure, parts of that could be a grind, but it didn't matter because it was so funny to do. It was FUN to do because it was so different than anything DE had introduced before. Someone really thought "outside of the box" on that one. (I really hope this is brought back again this coming August and September.) Overall, DE has done a fair job in nerfing and buffing things in the game--more on this shortly. On the Pro side of this, DE has reworked many items, mostly frames, that they over-nerfed at some point in the past to bring them back to a level of, "Hey, let's play _____ again!" We attended TennoCon 2019 and I had never seen a company go to the lengths DE did to make the conference so much fun and easy to navigate around in. (Please make the floor-sized Comi game an item available to buy.) One suggestion for future in-person TennoCons is to have it at a larger venue or spread it across two days. I love Glassmaker but wish you would have given a little more information on how or when the remaining stages of the mystery will be opened.

Now to the Cons:

1. Nerfing: This should not be as much of an issue IF the weapons and new warframes were tested more extensively by a broader base of players, not just DE developers, employees, and Warframe Partners. There should be a way to pull a group of volunteer players to do this. Yes, it may take more time to get content out to the community but by having non-DE players testing out items, then DE would get a better sense of what players see and how they use the new items. Within the past 12 months or so, DE has called these creative uses of items that THEY did not see first, exploitations, when all-too-often this is not the case. These are then "fixed." This leaves players feeling like DE does not truly respect OUR creativity in the game. It's like we get punished for thinking of a way to use an item or its mods in a way DE did not. NERFING AN ITEM JUST BECAUSE IT IS THE MOST POPULAR IS RIDICULOUS. I play this game for fun and to relax. I play in Solo mode the most; except when helping new clan mates or need a squad in something like Scarlet Spear. According to a Devstream at the time, Pablo himself said that the Catchmoon was nerfed solely because it was the most popular secondary in the game at the time. No other reason. Guess what? At the time, it was the last secondary I had to rank up, and I just kept it equipped and used it just because there were no new secondaries until the Kuva Lich weapons came out.

Please, DE, STOP the knee-jerk decimation when nerfing and use a MIDDLE-GROUND, COMMON SENSE approach to your numbers! You are working twice as hard, but not working smarter, when you do this and then have to go back and slightly buff the recently nerfed item. (Sadly SMH!) About the KUVA BRAMMA, make the arrow count 8 instead of 15 and keep the other nerf numbers.

2. STOP DROPPING CONTENT before it has been tested outside of DE. See #1 above. I don't want content dropped which has to have a bunch of Hot Fixes because "something wasn't caught about it before it was released." I would rather have quality content dropped that does not require all of this even if it means that content is not dropped as often as it has been in the past. Slapping a Band-Aid on a gaping incision isn't a fix. Scarlet Spear is a prime example of this. We were promised ALL arcanes would be available then some were removed from Little Duck's store. !!!!  There also should have been a better way to balance out Space vs Ground squads. Hopefully, if you decide to drop this again, that will be resolved.

3.  Somachord Tones on PoE and Orb Vallis:  I will NOT hunt for these. Not even if there is a map to them somewhere on the Internet. Talk about a grind! You could have made these more fun to do such as a Scavenger Hunt with clues and riddles to solve, put them at the end of the K-Drive races as a token reward, or hide them in the caves. I would happily chase them in such a case. As it is, those tones will only appear in my Orbiter's jukebox if I accidentally run across them.

4. Make new content, such as the Kuva Lich's, MR locked! I have just about shunned public matches because of extremely immature lower-rank players who get these powerful weapons and then think that they are now entitled to any weapon in the game whenever they want them. This is an unexpected fallout from NOT making the Kuva Lich's MR locked. A new crop of beginner players think that they should be entitled to ANY prime weapon and this should NOT be the case.  

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Unless they sneak in an unmentioned damage nerf, this isn't really a nerf.  If you're concerned about the ammo, unlock your exilus slot and add an ammo mod.  It's a level 40 weapon so you have plenty of capacity.

The clusters sound improved.  The current clusters with their small range and 100% falloff are basically annoyingly loud sparkles that do no damage.

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6 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

everybody knew it was coming, and on paper, ti sounds like a big nerf, but 3 times more used than any other primary? there's no way in hell DE were ever gonna let that slide, they've nerfed things for way less in the past.

lol I wonder what the chart would look like versus the Catchmoon back than 50%. Bramma 75%

amused dave chappelle GIF

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@(PS4)Adometro:  Oh, I know that. My comment was intended to back up what I said about choosing middle-ground numbers when nerfing. I only used the Bramma for the Condrixes and do not use it now. I like a general-use primary weapon for most missions. 

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3 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

lol I wonder what the chart would look like versus the Catchmoon back than 50%. Bramma 75%

Bramma was being used 3x more than other primary weapons, according to DERebecca. Make that of what you will.

Could be likely that this usage was increasing, which probably signaled a red flag.

Tbh, its better that DE is nerfing this weapon now instead of later.

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4 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

I count almost 5 points made there and all 5 being incorrect assumptions. I won't debate incorrect assumptions as that's a waste of time. But yes, I am serious, I don't see the correlation between that and a "power creep fantasy player". Much less so considering we're all already playing power fantasy themed characters in a space ninja power fantasy game.

For you.

https://youtu.be/Q7XOVqJYP-A

 

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5 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Bramma was being used 3x more than other primary weapons, according to DERebecca. Make that of what you will.

Could be likely that this usage was increasing, which probably signaled a red flag.

Tbh, its better that DE is nerfing this weapon now instead of later.

Yes going into most public mission minimum was one to three Bramma's, most 4 if I used it for Sortie "Bows only." lol Yes probably close to 75% or more.

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Hmmm imagine if there was a system in place that would work as a perfect counterbalance on a powerful weapons something that would require skill and force careful game play. What we could call something like that self d ddaaa daaamm dab….. self dab?!? No that’s not it. If only we've had community managers that are good at playing the game at extremely high level they could help with this problem.

Oh well let’s do makeup lessons instead yyeee.

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