How to solve the Kuva Bramma ammo problem

[(PSN)FK2P]

Let’s try and keep this discussion civil and respectful.

I believe the fulmin had the right idea with regard to ammo conservation with low ammo weapons. 
 

The current system fails on two levels, running out of ammo in missions where there is no ammo and making ammo restores mandatory and simultaneously allowing players to REMAIN spamming the Bramma in missions where ammo is everywhere such as low level defence.

This pleases both parties, as people are concerned the ammo is to low, and people also think the Bramma shouldn’t be spammed. 
 

Similar to how one would reload a tank in Battlefield. There is a bank of 5 arrows, and a bar underneath which generates an arrow every 10 seconds. If full, the bar will remain empty and start loading after one is fired. It is then very possible to run out of ammo quickly if you blow all your ammo, but ammo restores slowly meaning spamming is impossible, however this means that in boss fights players will not have the incoherent game design of literally running out of ammo after 5 shots which is horrible.

New players are going to be very surprised fighting the Ropalolist with 5 shots.

[0_The_F00l]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)FK2P said:

.

New players are going to be very surprised fighting the Ropalolist with 5 shots.

Liches are not intended for New players, 

[phoenix1992]

16 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Liches are not intended for New players, 

Neither is the Ropalolyst to be honest.

[JackHargreav]

Unfortunatelly the Bramma is way too effective. So in the moment you solve tha ammo issue it becomes Op again.

[Magus_Tahir]

3 hours ago, (PS4)FK2P said:

It is then very possible to run out of ammo quickly if you blow all your ammo, but ammo restores slowly meaning spamming is impossible, however this means that in boss fights players will not have the incoherent game design of literally running out of ammo after 5 shots which is horrible.

New players are going to be very surprised fighting the Ropalolist with 5 shots.

So a preface to this the Bramma did not rise to prominence until self damage was removed which was the weakness to the brammas insane power it's power check if you will.

In order to rein the usage of this bow it was necessary for them to alter its ammo capacity and acquisition while changing the skill level required to use it effectively. Looking at how the bow is acquired I can honestly tell you that when it was made new players were not considered except for showing the bow as something you will get down the road. 

Experienced players who have the mods necessary practically negate the ammo issues of the bow and have the practice necessary to use it effectively. I personally still find it to be an incredibly powerful weapon which I use in a number of my builds. Effort is now required to make the bow perform like it used to and you can for those players as I just mentioned who have the mods and the experience necessary to do so. The changes that they have made prevent the bow from being a desirable weapon for new players who do not have the capacity to make up for the weapons weaknesses so even if they have someone carry them to kill a lich to get this weapon It's not going to be an effective tool for them that was the purpose of this change. The real purpose of the change was to break up the massive usage of this weapon across all Mastery Ranks. 

Had they made getting a Bramma dependent on being able to solo kill a lich that may have reduced the number of them in the game. It was a blunder on DE's part to see the mass proliferation of this weapon.  I for one am happy that they are actually starting to address this type of oversight and will most likely work to avoid the same situations in the future where they can.

Tl:dr: Your post is practically why they changed the weapon how they did to get the desired effect.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Magus_Tahir
Edits voice to txt is annoying.

[(PSN)songojames]

1 hour ago, JackHargreav said:

Unfortunatelly the Bramma is way too effective. So in the moment you solve tha ammo issue it becomes Op again.

The Bramma wasn't too effective. From my experience you still had to Forma it multiple times or potato it for it to be effective against high lvl enemies. Considering it's a Kuva Lich weapon it should've been as effective as it was before the recent update.

Edited June 21, 2020 by (PS4)songojames

[JackHargreav]

1 minute ago, (PS4)songojames said:

The Bramma wasn't too effective. You still had to Forma it multiple times or potato it for it to be effective against high lvl enemies. Considering it's a Kuva Lich weapon it should've been as effective as it was before the recent update.

You have to forma about 90% of weapons at least 3 times to make them effective.

There isn't a single weapon that can oneshot everything straight out of the box. Especially not an aoe weapon.

[(PSN)songojames]

Just now, JackHargreav said:

You have to forma about 90% of weapons at least 3 times to make them effective.

There isn't a single weapon that can oneshot everything straight out of the box. Especially not an aoe weapon.

Doesn't that mean the Kuva Bramma wasn't too effective since it didn't break the status quo in that regard?

[JackHargreav]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)songojames said:

Doesn't that mean the Kuva Bramma wasn't too effective since it didn't break the status quo in that regard?

Nope. It was easy to use, easy to obtain and pretty much did a better job than any other weapon.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

Unfortunatelly the Bramma is way too effective. So in the moment you solve tha ammo issue it becomes Op again.

This.  The best weapon to compare Kuva Bramma to is the Kuva Ogris, Lenz, and the Grineer Pirate Ship Cannon for balance purposes.

Solving the Ammo problem instantly causes Bramma to far outclass every similar weapon (AGAIN) in terms of damage and AoE, even with damage radius reduction.

It approaches Mirage Simulor-Spam back in the day.

I’m not saying there isn’t a better way to keep the Kuva Bramma fun (less damage and more ammo again?) but raw numbers in terms of player use mandated this change.  I actually stayed away from it when I saw what it was doing in squads when Scarlet Spear was active...that’s how skewed it was.

Edited June 21, 2020 by (PS4)Silverback73

[SneakyErvin]

P R O T E A, what does that spell? That's right, Infinite ammo.

[Koga.]

2 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

You have to forma about 90% of weapons at least 3 times to make them effective.

There isn't a single weapon that can oneshot everything straight out of the box. Especially not an aoe weapon.

*Laughs in Acceltra*

[vanaukas]

1 minute ago, Koga. said:

*Laughs in Acceltra*

You can't one shot anything with the acceltra (besides low level mobs) You have to unload a lot of shots to be efective.

Edited June 21, 2020 by vanaukas

[Koga.]

Just now, vanaukas said:

You can't one shot anytjing woth the acceltra. You have to unload a lot of shots to be efective.

nah, max is 2 shots  i see that as an absolute win. 

[vanaukas]

4 minutes ago, Koga. said:

nah, max is 2 shots  i see that as an absolute win. 

uh... Yeah, sure.

[Koga.]

Just now, vanaukas said:

uh... Yeah, sure.

you learned something new today no need to thank me, peace.

[vanaukas]

8 minutes ago, Koga. said:

you learned something new today no need to thank me, peace.

Nah, I was aware about people like you. It's ok bro, keep going!

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Hmmm yes lets reduce the ammo further, 2 shots then perfectly balance as all things should be

[dEjAvU5566]

Protea is the signature warframe for bramma, enough said.

 

[Hayabusa97]

I mean you could just put Arrow Mutation on it.

[TARINunit9]

7 hours ago, (PS4)FK2P said:

I believe the fulmin had the right idea with regard to ammo conservation with low ammo weapons. 

The Fulmin...

I think you meant the Lenz, because the Fulmin is not a low-ammo weapon

[(PSN)Pragmatic_2015]

Or just diversify your loadouts......

[Aldain]

7 hours ago, (PS4)FK2P said:

New players are going to be very surprised fighting the Ropalolist with 5 shots.

...Why would you fight Ralph with the Bramma anyway?

There are several weapons better designed for that, hell even the Tiberon Prime can fight Ralph easily enough.

[SenorClipClop]

9 hours ago, (PS4)FK2P said:

making ammo restores mandatory and simultaneously allowing players to REMAIN spamming the Bramma in missions where ammo is everywhere such as low level defence.

This is a very good point. IMO, DE went in the right direction nerfing the Bramma's ammo economy instead of its stats to discourage spamming. That said, there are always ways around weapon weaknesses, and this one pushes back with consumable resources much like Energy pizzas did before Energizing Dash existed. A battery system like the one you suggest could also work to fix the spam issue.

9 hours ago, (PS4)FK2P said:

however this means that in boss fights players will not have the incoherent game design of literally running out of ammo after 5 shots which is horrible.

This is a learning experience, and it adds an important factor to accompany the Bramma's obvious strengths: a weakness. The Bramma isn't great for use over extended periods without ways to resupply ammo. This encourages players to think creatively and find workarounds, or to diversify their weapon choices here. The point here is that Bramma was overused because it quickly became the best primary in virtually every situation. Now there are clear situations where the Bramma isn't an optimal choice, and this has been done without removing its usefulness unilaterally.

[trst]

Or make Liches locked behind something like mr15-20. Solves the problem of it impacting new players and solves any ammo concerns as players by that point should have nearly every method to deal with ammo at their disposal.

And/or just nerf the Bramma more to give it back its ammo.