Discussion and Feedback on the Helminth Chrysalis - The most shocking feature ever revealed?

[Balegrim]

4 minutes ago, Magus_Tahir said:

Considering stream came first, and it was a unveiling, and said during stream nothing is final "yet".

Then the page update came second, on the Waeframe site.

Thirdly Devs on Twitter saying after Tennocon what the weeks ahead we will see a full list after its been decided.

Seems pretty transparent for a system not aimed at beginners.

Almost as transparent as the intent behind the OP's thread here.

The intent of my thread is besides not lying about being somewhat salty about the lack of signature moves is to argue for being able to swap any warframe's 1-3 abilities with another frames, but only being able to modify 1 ability on the modded frame at a time. Meaning you can only transfer 1 thing at a time and if you want something else you have to change the power you transferred. 

[-CoI-IAmNotMatthew]

2 minutes ago, Balegrim said:

The intent of my thread is besides not lying about being somewhat salty about the lack of signature moves is to argue for being able to swap any warframe's 1-3 abilities with another frames, but only being able to modify 1 ability on the modded frame at a time. Meaning you can only transfer 1 thing at a time and if you want something else you have to change the power you transferred. 

Signature abilities are "signature" for a reason.

[Balegrim]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Deeceem said:

I read the edit from you. Yeah I had a brainfart because I though about it as a solo player first, but ended up taking a squad as example.

Nontheless it becomes five player amounts in a four man group which is 25% more and two player amounts in solo play whichis 100% more. I also never talked about Strangledome being put on other frames. No idea why you do.

Bottom line is there's some broken stuff potentially (Iron Skin, Splinter Storm, Wisp Motes etc.), that's why it's limited as it is. It's not going to change.

I edit a lot because I make a lot of typos. And I don't proof read. I think quicker than I write. XD 

And I'll agree it might be broken, but the game is already so broken and unbalanced that none of those concessions would matter. Adding only one ability from a frame's 1-3 kit to another won't make a world of difference for 95% of the game's content. Except the tankiest boss fights, which again, forma production limits, progression slowness, and every other built in timer DE uses to slow players down. The fun factor greatly outweighs any change in the game's easiness or pacing. Which most late game frames would hardly notice anyway. Like, again, if something is in front of me it dies in .1 seconds unless its absurdly leveled. And most warframe powers simply aren't applicable in any meaningful way to bosses. Except the ones that buff raw damage. 

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Just because a game gives you a lot of freedom doesn't mean they have to open the floodgates to ridiculous powercreep.

If anyone actually thought they'd do this you kinda are naive. 

I was already assuming they'd let you pick 1 weak ability to mix and match for fun....as shown by Volts 1 already in the livestream. 

Who in their right mind would greenlight giving every frame Saryns abilities? 

Shock Trooper isn't weak, none of Mirages abilities are weak (aside from Prism but that's a 4th), and we still don't know which ability Wukong and Nova  will transfer. This system will potentially break the game anyway.

[Balegrim]

10 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Shock Trooper isn't weak, none of Mirages abilities are weak (aside from Prism but that's a 4th), and we still don't know which ability Wukong and Nova  will transfer. This system will potentially break the game anyway.

Well I hope its celestial twin. It's the least broken ability of his. Besides his invulnerability skill. That cloud walk is insane.But his doppelganger is fun. Late-late game I get more mileage out of cloud walk than doppelganger. But dopple and summon powers are just. Plain. Cool.(I outkill the crap outta my clone in steel path, for example, and so do most players.)  

Also the game is in no way balanced. I've been slaughtering everything every patch. Only things that don't die in like 1 shot are eidolons. Because when it comes to it most of a frames damage comes from weapon damage. And weapon damage buffs. Abilities that have any hope of competing with a weapon usually rely on an ult which is a non issue. And there are so many routes to making a frame really tanky with or without iron skin it doesn't mean much. DE should just do what's actually the most fun with it. Warframe is essentially bad ass simulator. The only challenge in this game comes from not having enough forma. XD 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

39 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Considering their counterargument in a different thread against adding a separate trade chat dedicated solely to Riven mods to cut down on clutter was engaging in hyperbole about having separate a trade chat for literally every class of tradeable item I'd say probably.

Right, so someone can simply say "I dont like looking at rivens." 

But if someone says "I dont like looking at people who completely invalidate someone's time and/or money by asking for fully ranked primed mods for 40 plat" and I'm outta line. Sure.

If one is so offensive, then they both are. A lowballers trade chat isn't any more or less ridiculous.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

8 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Shock Trooper isn't weak, none of Mirages abilities are weak (aside from Prism but that's a 4th), and we still don't know which ability Wukong and Nova  will transfer. This system will potentially break the game anyway.

Yes I agree. The OP stated that wasnt good enough for him. He doesnt want weak 1 abilities because he can kill everything fast anyway.

I cant wait for these patch notes. It's gonna be glorious either way to read these forums. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

I apologize for coming on too strong. Sorry if I offended anyone, we're all just waiting for the list anyway. This is all guessing at this point. 

[Vyra]

At this point, they could bring up a system where you can replace any ability.
Further more,why not a Freeform frame ( who then can use any skin ) that use abilities from any frame.

Like, modular Warframe.

Skinbase: something very neutral, maybe like Xaku, then use any skin you want.
Abilities: whatever you want from other frames.

That would solve most problems.

[Balegrim]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

I apologize for coming on too strong. Sorry if I offended anyone, we're all just waiting for the list anyway. This is all guessing at this point. 

It's cool I'm actually really chill. 

[Magus_Tahir]

24 minutes ago, Balegrim said:

The intent of my thread is besides not lying about being somewhat salty about the lack of signature moves is to argue for being able to swap any warframe's 1-3 abilities with another frames, but only being able to modify 1 ability on the modded frame at a time. Meaning you can only transfer 1 thing at a time and if you want something else you have to change the power you transferred. 

Lying you say? How is in development and subject to change nothing is final.

This is a system for advanced users only it's not meant for everyone to go out and build a modular Warframe of their dreams.

Really I find nothing constructive here other than bemoaning how your expectations were not met when you discovered what the system will be. If I were to use an analogy you have built your house on quicksand when the surveyor told you the land had quicksand and now you're wondering why your house is sinking. 

DE has not lied here. This system even without copying other Warframe abilities and just looking at some of the abilities that are going to be coming from the Helminth itself. That Power Strength boost for one, I am already napkin mathing how to apply that to my nuke Frames.

So you do you and continue to spin your wheels in the mud. Nothing to be gained here in this thread other than wasting time from false expectations.

Good luck.

[Balegrim]

2 minutes ago, Vyra said:

At this point, they could bring up a system where you can replace any ability.
Further more,why not a Freeform frame ( who then can use any skin ) that use abilities from any frame.

Like, modular Warframe.

Skinbase: something very neutral, maybe like Xaku, then use any skin you want.
Abilities: whatever you want from other frames.

That would solve most problems.

I like the idea of just being able to swap out 1 ability for any other frames 1-3 key abilities. 

That'd be variety enough, meaningful, and allow for a lot of fun things and cool customizations. A dash of PoE if you will.    

[FueledByPotatoes]

The only problem I have with this update, is the feedback from the community, because I already see people say on chat "I hope I can fuse Desecrate on Hydroid and then farm solo" or "I wish we will be able to fuse Mesa's Peacemakers" or some stupid overpowered stuff. 

 

DE's plan is not making warframe 100% customizable. If every frame could run Saryn's Spores then what's the point in Saryn? What's the point in any frame at all?

I already know that some youtubers / player will hate on DE for this update because they can't make any frame use spores or peacemakers.

I really hope people will understand the idea behind this update, and understand that it's not for making the ultimate DPS machine.

There are some "broken" things that you can do, but don't expect to be a god.

[Balegrim]

6 minutes ago, Magus_Tahir said:

Lying you say? How is in development and subject to change nothing is final.

This is a system for advanced users only it's not meant for everyone to go out and build a modular Warframe of their dreams.

Really I find nothing constructive here other than bemoaning how your expectations were not met when you discovered what the system will be. If I were to use an analogy you have built your house on quicksand when the surveyor told you the land had quicksand and now you're wondering why your house is sinking. 

DE has not lied here. This system even without copying other Warframe abilities and just looking at some of the abilities that are going to be coming from the Helminth itself. That Power Strength boost for one, I am already napkin mathing how to apply that to my nuke Frames.

So you do you and continue to spin your wheels in the mud. Nothing to be gained here in this thread other than wasting time from false expectations.

Good luck.

I said I wasn't lying about being somewhat salty. XD 

And that's like, your opinion man. But being able to swap out one ability for any other warframes 1-3 abilities will again, not have any noticeable impact on the majority of the game's content. Because, surviving and killing everything really fast is not much of an issue on ANY map I play with any frame, with the exception of eidolons or orb mother. And it don't much matter what frame I'm using while I do it. You can say what you want but you can't really argue it wouldn't be way cooler and make things a lot fresher. 

[0_The_F00l]

It was pretty obvious that they were gonna limit the abilities you could transfer. 

And while the official statement about "signature" is kinda vague, it could definitely have been termed better. Signature could be anything DE deems it to be. 

DE doesn't exactly have the track record of implementing as advertised so I expect there will be further changes. 

[selig_fay]

46 minutes ago, Blexander said:

You didnt even read what I wrote, let alone what I quoted. It breaks the game from an aesthetic standpoint. Why bother reworking frames when you can just slap a better ability from another frame on top of a terrible one?

I don't understand why you think this will stop reworks. Maybe it will make it a little slower, but I don't think it will stop. On the other hand, I want to get a different ability now than waiting another 3-5 years for the rework to happen.

[keikogi]

4 minutes ago, -Potato-13 said:

The only problem I have with this update, is the feedback from the community, because I already see people say on chat "I hope I can fuse Desecrate on Hydroid and then farm solo" or "I wish we will be able to fuse Mesa's Peacemakers" or some stupid overpowered stuff. 

 

DE's plan is not making warframe 100% customizable. If every frame could run Saryn's Spores then what's the point in Saryn? What's the point in any frame at all?

I already know that some youtubers / player will hate on DE for this update because they can't make any frame use spores or peacemakers.

I really hope people will understand the idea behind this update, and understand that it's not for making the ultimate DPS machine.

There are some "broken" things that you can do, but don't expect to be a god.

As it is , it´s already ridicous. Like just use volt´s shock with an agument and make peace makers even better by replacing you 1 , same goes to to Chroma replacing his 1 with anything.

[(PSN)lumen2ne1]

35 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Shock Trooper isn't weak, none of Mirages abilities are weak (aside from Prism but that's a 4th), and we still don't know which ability Wukong and Nova  will transfer. This system will potentially break the game anyway.

This. And I personally think the same about Khora or Protea. Many warframes revolve around a couple of strong abilities and mediocre ones but there are some that have fully useful kits, and whichever ability we can get from them will be extremely good on another frame with already 2 or 3 good abilities. Take Wisp for example because I use her a lot. She's already a good support frame, but I don't really like nor use her 3rd ability (her 2 not so much either), and any skill from Khora, Protea or Mirage will be too good on her, being a support and having even more strong support abilities or better CC and more damage.

I only see a couple of possible outcomes out of this balance hell system. They either decide to not implement it at all or nerf abilities that have numbers and percentages with a cap. If they nerf abilities, then the system is pointless because you're going to replace an already mediocre ability with one you won't potentially use anymore so you end up with the same. If they only give the relatively worst abilities of each frame up for transfer, warframes with already bad kits will not benefit from this, or everyone will transfer the same good and strong abilities available, creating a meta.

The way I see this system is it shouldn't be implemented at all, as curious I am, but it's for the best. This is rivens 2.0, balance nightmare that acts as a band-aid for warframes with mediocre abilities that need reworks and gets abused on strong warframes instead. People will invest on the strong combinations and will eventually get nerfed or adjusted like dispositions and people will complain for wasting their effort. On one hand I'm curious to see how it all plays out, but on the other hand I'm almost convinced that it won't turn out good and they should back out on this, even though they hyped it too much with TennoCon and probably will be harder to take it back.

[FueledByPotatoes]

This is exactly what I meant in the last line I plan on using Shock Trooper on my Gara to get more damage, on my mesa, and on my trinity but only the eidolon config

[Acos]

I will replace abilities that are weak with abilities that are less weak. 

[FueledByPotatoes]

11 minutes ago, keikogi said:

As it is , it´s already ridicous. Like just use volt´s shock with an agument and make peace makers even better by replacing you 1 , same goes to to Chroma replacing his 1 with anything.

I forgot to quote look at my response

[keikogi]

10 minutes ago, -Potato-13 said:

This is exactly what I meant in the last line I plan on using Shock Trooper on my Gara to get more damage, on my mesa, and on my trinity but only the eidolon config

I agree with your point , I'm just poiting out it is already way too good even as it is. Especially on frames that have useless or redundant skills. I feel sad about the system because well desined frames get the least benefit from this system because they have to sacrifice something usefull. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

They already said no 4th abilities and no signature abilities.

[FueledByPotatoes]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

They already said no 4th abilities and no signature abilities.

Yeah exactly, I know, I was quoting others who still fantasize about desecrate or spores on other frames.

[(PSN)Raven-Ghosthawk]

Regarding what I mentioned about reworks, if a frame's ability set gets reworked, will this undo the infusion so we have to reinfuse again (assuming the infused ability hasn't been changed), or will it let us choose to keep the infused ability? Or if the infused ability has been reworked, maybe is even non-existent anymore...do we get a free infusion from that consumed frame (=save us trouble of reinfusion) or another onhand/viable frame?