Discussion and Feedback on the Helminth Chrysalis - The most shocking feature ever revealed?

[Oreades]

1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

Hey folks.

You should bear in mind that screenshots of this system pre-launch are very likely dev-build experiments and are not always indicative of a final choice. We’ll be making a Dev Workshop post (around the 13th or 14th of August) about the final approved powers list before we release on the 25th, however.
 

Best of luck because I've been talking to a friend who specializes in number crunching and obscure game breaking builds, lets just say there was a lot of laughter. 

Tho there was a consensus of interest on how abilities that are dependent on external mechanical systems tied to yet other abilities would be played. Nidus and Grendel came up specifically, Nidus could just be handwaved away by giving his 1 but with the stipulation that Signiture abilities being off the table. That ruled out Grendles Consume but like all of his other abilities are dependent on stacks from consume.... soooo.

In any case it should be an interesting watch. 

[Zahnny]

I think DE made a mistake by saying "Signature" since all abilities are signature abilities of each frame. They probably meant something like most used or what best represents that frame. Unfortunately, this was probably a poor thing to state as what represents one warframe might be different to another player.

If there's any solace to be had it's that other frames will be able to use Firewalker, but most frames won't have Nezha's status immunity and knockdown resistance he has from Warding Halo. The only frames I can think of that come close are Rhino's Iron Skin, and Atlas's knockdown immunity while grounded passive.

[BlackHandd]

nezha's firewalker should not be a "donateable" ability

[Wyrmius_Prime]

His 2 and 3 visibly integrate his Halo into the abilities, so those aren't any ''less signature'' for him.

12 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

If there's any solace to be had it's that other frames will be able to use Firewalker, but most frames won't have Nezha's status immunity and knockdown resistance he has from Warding Halo. The only frames I can think of that come close are Rhino's Iron Skin, and Atlas's knockdown immunity while grounded passive.

Nezha's passive also greatly contributes to his speed. Other warframes still wouldn't receive the faster and longer slides of Nezha. He will still feel unique to play.

[selig_fay]

1 minute ago, BlackHandd said:

nezha's firewalker should not be a "donateable" ability

Well I would prefer Blazing Chakram, but it requires Chakram, so I think Firewalker is the best option.

[DrakeWurrum]

23 minutes ago, Sintag said:

Given how useful Speed is, I can kinda see why they wouldn't want to hand it off to, say, Gauss.

Fair point, but he'll likely end up with Fire Walker anyways, so...

[BlackHandd]

16 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

His 2 and 3 visibly integrate his Halo into the abilities, so those aren't any ''less signature'' for him.

Nezha's passive also greatly contributes to his speed. Other warframes still wouldn't receive the faster and longer slides of Nezha. He will still feel unique to play.

yeah i said that all of his abilities are defining.but as @Zahnny mentioned,his first ability represents nezha the most to me,and i always gonna love nezha no matter what,but i never gonna have that unique feeling when playing nezha the way i use to have right now.but its only me.

[Marine027]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb LuckyCharm:

Things like chromas 1 for example.

I am more worried how this is gonan work overal also on him? Kust copy paste his colour mechanic? Having to change colours also for him.

Or Equinox, do we get both from both forms? This system will so fail i fear, to much of a mess already and knowing DE, they will be forgetting certain conditions or combinations.

[BatVenomPL]

2 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

Since its confirmed by pablo, Im looking forward to Nezha firewalker on gauss and molt on gauss. Firewalker will be slower then molt but ascetics rule 

Helminth will also have Infested Mobility, which means even more speed

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

4 minutes ago, BatVenomPL said:

Helminth will also have Infested Mobility, which means even more speed

true, and Im looking forward to it, but not as much as molt/firewalker. Molt is higher speed buff, and firewalker is more ascetically pleasing and does damage too. Also having like 5 speed buffs active on plains with firewalker active is some anime S#&$ if ive ever seen it

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Hmm off the top of my head:

Blood letting on my Valkyr replacing ripline

Greedy pull for my Mesa replacing balistic battery

Nyx's psy bolts to replace Baruuk's 1

Rhino charge to replace Grendel's 3

Willow wisp to replace mind control for Nyx

And celestial twin for Mag to replace crush

[BatVenomPL]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

true, and Im looking forward to it, but not as much as molt/firewalker. Molt is higher speed buff, and firewalker is more ascetically pleasing and does damage too. Also having like 5 speed buffs active on plains with firewalker active is some anime S#&$ if ive ever seen it

The max speed Gauss videos will be even better than before

[Arc_Xeno_JDSH]

So I've noticed that there's a bit of contention over Limbo and Chrysalis, so I'm going to put probably the 2 simplest solutions to the problem that I expect DE to hopefully go after since either works with minimal effort and pain to everyone while leaving most people happy.:

1) Partially reworked Banish/Statis/Surge

Banish/Surge (whichever gets the option) is modified so that while it still retains its core function with it now allowing players to still interact with the targets while inside or out of the rift.
 

2) Limbo is outright prevented from interacting with the Chrysalis

Self explanatory, Limbo becomes entirely inedible. 

[DarthBane1]

LOL I was hoping for a pick your own once I seen that. I'd completely redo my inaros. 

Spores, healing, etc. Would be fun. 

[Pendragon1951]

3 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Hey folks.

You should bear in mind that screenshots of this system pre-launch are very likely dev-build experiments and are not always indicative of a final choice. We’ll be making a Dev Workshop post (around the 13th or 14th of August) about the final approved powers list before we release on the 25th, however.
 

@DE_Bear If you could settle something for myself, now I know we can not swap what are referred to as signature and ultimate powers, what i'm not completely clear on is how many of the listed powers we can put per Warframe, is it only one we can swap in or three? 

[Rakosta_Kai]

3 minutes ago, Pendragon1951 said:

If you could settle something for myself, now I know we can not swap what are referred to as signature and ultimate powers, what i'm not completely clear on is how many of the listed powers we can put per Warframe, is it only one we can swap in or three? 

The presentation noted only 1 at a time.

 

[IggySnow]

14 minutes ago, Pendragon1951 said:

@DE_Bear If you could settle something for myself, now I know we can not swap what are referred to as signature and ultimate powers, what i'm not completely clear on is how many of the listed powers we can put per Warframe, is it only one we can swap in or three? 

from what I understood, you can only put a single power on a frame, and i think you can put that power into any slot you want.

Its just the ult/ signature ability's that cant be sacrificed.

Edit: yeah they say that here

[/spoier]

[Lost_Cartographer]

16 hours ago, Aldain said:

Personally I think they should give Valkyr a new 1 and make the Parazon have Ripline functionality on a cooldown, but that's just me.

Considering this is even demonstrated as a thing of sorts with the new Jackal fight...

As for subsumed abilities?  I'm a simple Tenno.  If I can punch faces off Atlas style with Mag and be immortal while doing it, I'm totally going to make it happen.

[Pendragon1951]

Yes your all correct I just watched it again and she definitely said she could not put both shock and pull on Excalibur, oh well it was fun to think you could though but it still will be fun to swap powers:)

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

47 minutes ago, BatVenomPL said:

The max speed Gauss videos will be even better than before

Literally he’s there and then its just a trail of fire xD

[Aldain]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

Literally he’s there and then its just a trail of fire xD

So basically this?

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

Just now, Aldain said:

So basically this?

Yesssssssssss

[Aldain]

Just now, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

Yesssssssssss

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

Just now, Aldain said:

Where we’re going, we dont need roads

[Orfeusz]

I have some questions regarding Helminth Chrysalis System. I think that it's extremely bad designed in relation to Warframe's economy system and players' time investment to the game. The idea is good, but the implementation is not (or I should say the rules that we are meant to follow when using this Helminth transfer). Best comparison ? It's kinda like focus system from Second Dream, as it was on launch, before all changes - grindy, beyond limits of sanity and all the grind  with little to no rewards. And what about Ability Transfer ? (because I said "it's kinda like...") It's much worse ; _ ; It needs some reworks and redesings, even before launch with Heart of Deimos.

The largest waste of potential for this system manifests in it's "one time usage" nature. Change 1 ability for 1 warframe, for good, and it does not help that you can transfer certain ability to only chosen configs. Solution ? Make it modular, just like modding, players will invest resources to unlock and upgrade Helminth's abilities or warframe's abilities instead of using them to install 1 ability on 1 frame. Therefore, after unlocking, we are free to switch between unlocked abilities without costs, as easy as changing mods in arsenal. Unlocked abilities are available for all your warframes. Oh, and maybe add an additional fifth slot for Helminth's abilities only. Excessive grind beyond limits of sanity ? Solved. Fun, enjoyment, satisfaction ? Added. Respect to players' time investment to the game? Sure... well, not exactly, there is one problem.

Everything is probably coded as it is right now or done in 70% and DE don't have time to recode or code this system again, almost form scratches, just to implement such big changes. I belive that Ability Transfer has been tied to configs, so there is nothing we can do. 

In short words, current version of Ability Transfer is unhealthy for customization depth that Waframe has to offer and is not fair for players. If anyone wants to try all possible combinations of powers on every warframe, how much time and resources will it cost ? Too much, we could be building new warframes (to try these combinations) for our entire life and it still won't be enough.