The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[selig_fay]

56 minutes ago, mikakor said:

and anyway, if those frames people that are so weak that only one of their abilities being given to others makes them completely unrelevant, if anything, if shows a dire need of a rework. ( Nyx, Zephyr, anyone? )

There are many aspects to this. The strength level doesn't matter here because the frame can be very strong but stupidly boring. Gameplay matters a lot here. The first wave of rework should go exactly to those frames, whose gameplay does not work in any situation. The second wave is frames, whose gameplay doesn't work everywhere. Again, mind control does not work against sentient and this problem should be resolved. The third wave should be about frames that need QoL and some ability tweaks. And then, everything has to be repeated, because the game can be changed.

[HoustonDragon]

Dumb question that may have already been answered, but can you replace an Exalted weapon ability?

[selig_fay]

1 minute ago, HoustonDragon said:

Dumb question that may have already been answered, but can you replace an Exalted weapon ability?

You can refuse any ability.

[CopperBezel]

Yeah, I'm planning to replace Wukong's Iron Staff since it's the one ability I never use on him. I think he needs a CC, so I've been planning on Condemn. (Ensnare is better but I can't just give it to everyone.)

[GREF_TM]

On 2020-08-17 at 1:41 AM, CopperBezel said:

Again, Shock Trooper, Smite Infusion, and Fireball Frenzy can double your damage with the same strength build

Even ignoring the fact that both shock and smite require augments to actually apply a damage buff portion (and fireball is not an option), while roar does not, since when having ~200-300% additive elemental damage (and both, i mind you, will also decrease your proc consistency as a side effect, which technically can reduce the benefit you gain from extra damage on status-viable weapons) can double your damage output? And since when said abilities can compete with 2-2.5x global multiplier (and not only for weapons, but also for your abilities) you get from roar?

I think comparing these abilities with roar is incorrect. Only frames that can realistically benefit from said augmented abilities more than from roar are obviously frames that already have damage boosting ability that they don't want to give up, i.e. chroma (vex), grendel (strike), rhino himself, etc., but that's about it. Aside from that, you want more - no, MOAR - damage and can have decent str and at least ~80% duration without breaking your build > you slap roar and it's very likely to be good.

2 hours ago, HoustonDragon said:

Dumb question that may have already been answered, but can you replace an Exalted weapon ability?

Yep, you finally can replace that trash tier iron staff on your wukong, and have 4 good abilities. Rejoice!

Roar is a very solid option (surprising absolutely no one), as it boosts both you and the twin afaik. 

[CopperBezel]

A weapon with two just elemental dual stats has 100% + 120% and you're adding 200% to it, so it's just short of double at the point at which Roar is double. But yeah, it's in an element you probably don't want, it doesn't apply to abilities, it doesn't apply to those precious Slash procs, etc. They're certainly weaker than Roar and Nourish Strike.

[HoustonDragon]

12 minutes ago, GREF_TM said:

Yep, you finally can replace that trash tier iron staff on your wukong, and have 4 good abilities. Rejoice!

Roar is a very solid option (surprising absolutely no one), as it boosts both you and the twin afaik. 

I was considering that or stealing Excal's Radial Blind for the extra CC

[GREF_TM]

3 minutes ago, HoustonDragon said:

I was considering that or stealing Excal's Radial Blind for the extra CC

Blind is a powerhouse for more melee-centric builds, especially stropha, but it requires a different modding route compared to the rest of wukong's abilities imo (blind wants efficiency + range and doesn't care about neither duration nor power, while wukong's abilities want exactly duration + power and don't care much about range). There probably is a compromise between these two (a more simple build with no overextended), but it's still something that i'm not exactly fond of. Roar, on the other hand, just fits perfectly.

[CopperBezel]

He's loads of Duration and a very, very little bit of Strength. Like, efficiency for Cloud Walker is arguably more important. Strength on the Celestial Twin's health bar is a minor benefit given that CW can rapidly refill it, and Strength on Defy only makes the gauge fill faster, but doesn't change the cap, so if the enemies are high enough level for it to matter, Strength isn't necessary. (Meanwhile, Duration means casting Defy half as often and a much easier time navigating Cloud Walker, so it's obligatory.) Cloud Walker is nearly a complete heal at its base duration if you're moving, so a little Strength or a little Duration will push it over the top. 

But yeah, there's no reason to have any range on him at all, so if you go a CC route, you'll have to build slightly differently. Still, Radial Blind likes both Efficiency and Duration, so if you can bring your range back up a little, it's not the worst possible fit.

[[DE]Megan]

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

That’s all for now!

[trunks013]

Does that mean mag pull range stays the same ?

[Wyrmius_Prime]

7 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

That’s all for now!

Give us numbers, NUMBERS I say

[-QUILL_PETER-]

2 minutes ago, trunks013 said:

Does that mean mag pull range stays the same ?

Does the updated info say anything about Mag? No.

[Syln]

il y a 7 minutes, [DE]Megan a dit :

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

To be honest unless these two are nerfed to the ground they'll most likely be my choice.

[Karonuva]

I think changing the infused abilities completely rather than nerfing them on infusion is a better solution. People will still gravitate towards things like Roar no matter if it's just a 5% damage buff just for the fact it's a damage buff (and there are a lot of expendable abilities it can be swapped for)

[FSK41]

Can we at least remove Roar,as it works with abilities and is therefore too OP to balance even with diminishing damage,Iron skin is a far more suitable ability, and lets be honest with the addition of shield gate tank abilities like iron skin are not as strong anymore anyway and therefore fine to give to other frames

[Boll]

Numbers? we dont care about increase or decrease if we dont have the NUMBERS

remove roar ty

[selig_fay]

13 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

It's still good for me. Thank you for not deleting the ability completely.

[TennoDekken]

16 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

That’s all for now!

I find that to be incredibly unexciting. I would have rather us just gained stock abilities or only the really bad 1s and 2s of warframes. Having such stand out abilities and just making them worse makes them far less exciting. Its not like its going to stop minmaxers, roar will be mandatory no matter how bad it is, it just makes the concept more restrictive and unexciting than the current limitations already made it. Hell I would have rather had some warframes passives if it meant they werent lamer just for being subsumed.

[Arsonistic]

15 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Not a fan of the changes. Kind of goes against the existence of the system in the first place.

[---Swaggi---]

Just remove Roar plz it‘s to op for letting other warframes to have.
Also: Transferring nova 1 + Augment to get a flat 90% DR is ok yeah? xD
Or the scaling 1st Ability of Oberon???

[KIREEK]

I have the feeling this will be rivens 2.0

"Oh look, many players are using this ability, time to nerf it because we don't like that"

Dear DE, you're not making things better, you're just going to harm yourselves on the long run, you're already placing fear before the system is implemented, we do something with the fear it will get changed, who knows, maybe we will have another catchmoon on our hands, where the nerfs will happen over and over and then the only solution will be to change the entire mechanic and when players stop using said ability, you keep it where it was, at rock bottom

The problem isn't the values you assigned to them, the problem is that we are going to invest time into something that might get changed, forcing us to pick another warframe ability later on.

[Prince_El-Ahrairah]

3 minutes ago, --Q--FSK41 said:

Can we at least remove Roar,as it works with abilities and is therefore too OP to balance even with diminishing damage,Iron skin is a far more suitable ability, and lets be honest with the addition of shield gate tank abilities like iron skin are not as strong anymore anyway and therefore fine to give to other frames

Yes, let's turn every single frame, no matter what, in to a complete and total tank. Because that's more balanced than Roar. ???????? What? What is your reasoning for IRON SKIN? That would be an even stronger pick than Roar. Immunity to status effects, including any sort of CC stuff like knockback/down, insane EHP, infinite scaling defense because of its damage-converted-to-skin-health. Seriously, the only thing Rhino could give that wouldn't be considered a meta ability would be Charge.

[Pendragon1951]

Did you really think they would not touch these items, anytime something is used more than anything else they believe it limits our choices, they change, you watch when the system is up and running and they see a certain combination become the meta they will change that as well.

[GreyEnneract]

16 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

"we decided to give them slight rules"
These are nerfs, not rules.
I know it's not on you Megan, but I have to say you guys just killed this system lmao.
Once again, instead of buffing the bad choices you guys take the easy, shorter route.