People need to stop panicking about roar

[elZach]

EDIT: People still need to stop panicking about roar. Even a dimnished version is still good. The System is still good. The strongest thing about it is still getting rid of useless abilities. A Mesa will always turn out better with pretty much any other ability than her one. While Frames like Nekros and Inaros may actually get a kit. It's still great that Helminth abilities are coming.

_________________________________________________

Listen, I know many of you thought the helminth system would be purposefully made garbage in advance, when it was announced and are now flabbergasted that there are worthwhile abilities in the list. And I also do know that a Damage Multiplier sounds like the strongest thing.

However Roar, while definitely useful is absolutely getting overrated and doesn't warrant your panic. Of the top of my head, there are only two instances in the game, where players would need more damage. That's eidolons and arguably steelpath.

Do the best weapons need a damage buff to trivialize the games content? No. In terms of weapons, only those weapons which are struggling to kill enemies would net a benefit, while often the most deciding factor isn't how hard you can kill an enemy, but how many of them at once.

Do the highest DPS abilities need a damage buff? From what I've seen this only holds true in either Steelpath or event-content. Mesa especially is very popular, but her per tick output starts to struggle in very high level content. I don't think Saryns really benefit from building strength/roar, because killing enemies to quickly limits the spread of their Spores and will probably result in a net loss of dps. 
Although there might be frames who at this point can't compete with the top damage abilities in the game and maybe could catch up to the top like ember, nukelimbo or quakebanshee.

Ofcourse Eidolonhunter Volt would benefit greatly from Roar and will probably be a meta pick - however for the vast majority of the games content roaring simply isn't needed and of all the Mass-CC, pulling, Ressource-generating abilities in the pool to fret about the most generic +Damage ability is a little silly.

 

Don't get me wrong, the first weeks of the system being available will probably still be everyone cramming roar into every frame. Because the ressources are limited and +Damage is an easy to understand and reliable pick. But I don't think roar will turn out to be the best pick for most frames.

As an experiment: pick Rhino, take your bramma and a meta melee weapon build and run a Sortie and look when you feel like you need to roar to overcome the challenge.

[chaotea]

While i feel Roar will be a good adition to many warframes, depending on playstyles, I do agree that its probably not going to be as vital as some might initially think. Perhaps even more important is one of the defaults that increases power strength.

[(PSN)NeunDrachen]

Its not a matter of whether roar is good or not. Ppl just want a reason to call the update garbage or lacking before its even out yet because thats the in thing to do.

Saying it makes rhino redundant or the like is just to keep the fire burning. Anyone with some common sense and experience will know its not as op as it sounds to slap it on every frame but then you have ppl on yt telling their fans that its a top pick and that misinformation gets spread around.

Gotta love those tier lists.

[KIREEK]

The regular rhino specter already does roar and yet hardly anyone uses it, in fact, it's WAY more common that you will see someone in an elemental sortie using something like the ignis and other pure elemental weapons, intentionally nerfing themselves in missions

So my conclusion is simple, players will use roar, but that won't matter much for the outcome, in fact it may give a false sense of security, if you depend on the ability to much, as soon you run out of energy for example, you might find yourself in a tight spot.

While you see many players claiming warframe to be easy and/or that it will be easier with roar, a quick glance to the quit rate and completion rate will tell the true story.

I think it will be nice to have roar and other abilities, but that has less impact than actual gameplay

[LittleSuccubus]

5 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

a quick glance to the quit rate and completion rate will tell the true story.

No it won't. Depending on the bugs you get, you can't finish or don't want to finish certain missions. I have like a what, 7-8% quit rate now because of bugged missions. 

 

 

And pretty sure SIlence is much more powerful than Roar will be in terms of killing stuff. 

Having a permanent stealth damage bonus aura around something like Inaros will much more likely break the game than the bonus damage of roar.

[BRZZAFK]

I dont think it will be that powerful and become mandertory. But rhino gonna lose his job on recruit chat.

[elZach]

vor 1 Minute schrieb BRZZAFK:

I dont think it will be that powerful and become mandertory. But rhino gonna lose his job on recruit chat.

Wouldn't Rhino still be a top-roarer?

Doesn't need to build anything but strength for his usual build, while other frames will still want to build for other stats.

[KIREEK]

6 minutes ago, LittleSuccubus said:

No it won't. Depending on the bugs you get, you can't finish or don't want to finish certain missions. I have like a what, 7-8% quit rate now because of bugged missions. 

 

I have been in numerous missions where doors will permanently lock, enemies will go behind obstacles and more often than not, i'm able to solve the situation even if it takes 10 minutes and what i have noticed is that the players with less patience will quit

Yes missions like those happen, but in the majority of cases they can be completed.

[LittleSuccubus]

Just now, elZach said:

Wouldn't Rhino still be a top-roarer?

Doesn't need to build anything but strength for his usual build, while other frames will still want to build for other stats.

Why bring Rhino for Roar when Wisp can do the same. 🤔

[elZach]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb LittleSuccubus:

Why bring Rhino for Roar when Wisp can do the same. 🤔

Depends on the content I guess. If it's a bossfight, wisp won't be status/cc-immune and/or can't stun bosses.

What content do you personally recruit a dedicated roar-frame to?

Rhino can in the future also take other abilities and bring even more support. Dispensary for fixing economy issues would fit his build quite well I think. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't lose the place he has now in comps, if he even has any rn (never saw anyone looking for a rhino in a group personally)

[PsiWarp]

You're gonna hear me Roar.

[0_The_F00l]

The game can already be minmaxed to the point of most enemies dying faster than they can spawn.

The Roar will just be one more option to min max even harder , an acceptable alternative to faction mods for tight builds.

 

I do expect some very specific builds to get even more annoying (i am looking at you , you dang clone makers , yeah both of you) but overall i do not see it as too game breaking cause the game is already plenty broken.

[Veridian]

While the heavy str frames (Chroma, Wisp, EW Valkyr...etc.) will benefit from roar, the majority won't find much use in it's ~130 ps version.

Or why slap it on a Mesa, when she already deletes everything and would me much better off with dispencer.

[DeMonkey]

29 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

even if it takes 10 minutes

Plenty of missions take less than 10 minutes.

Why spend 10 minutes fixing a problem when you could just restart and be done sooner?

For me personally, my quit rate is high because I regularly (used to anyway) jump into a mission for all of 10 seconds to test something, before jumping back out again. Still faster than loading the simulacrum.

[(NSW)Kirbys-Epic-Yarn]

Don’t really care about the whole changing abilities thing. More excited for a new open world coming out and having an experience with other different players.

[(PSN)Yggranya]

1 hour ago, elZach said:

Listen, I know many of you thought the helminth system would be purposefully made garbage in advance, when it was announced and are now flabbergasted that there are worthwhile abilities in the list. And I also do know that a Damage Multiplier sounds like the strongest thing.

However Roar, while definitely useful is absolutely getting overrated and doesn't warrant your panic. Of the top of my head, there are only two instances in the game, where players would need more damage. That's eidolons and arguably steelpath.

Do the best weapons need a damage buff to trivialize the games content? No. In terms of weapons, only those weapons which are struggling to kill enemies would net a benefit, while often the most deciding factor isn't how hard you can kill an enemy, but how many of them at once.

Do the highest DPS abilities need a damage buff? From what I've seen this only holds true in either Steelpath or event-content. Mesa especially is very popular, but her per tick output starts to struggle in very high level content. I don't think Saryns really benefit from building strength/roar, because killing enemies to quickly limits the spread of their Spores and will probably result in a net loss of dps. 
Although there might be frames who at this point can't compete with the top damage abilities in the game and maybe could catch up to the top like ember, nukelimbo or quakebanshee.

Ofcourse Eidolonhunter Volt would benefit greatly from Roar and will probably be a meta pick - however for the vast majority of the games content roaring simply isn't needed and of all the Mass-CC, pulling, Ressource-generating abilities in the pool to fret about the most generic +Damage ability is a little silly.

 

Don't get me wrong, the first weeks of the system being available will probably still be everyone cramming roar into every frame. Because the ressources are limited and +Damage is an easy to understand and reliable pick. But I don't think roar will turn out to be the best pick for most frames.

As an experiment: pick Rhino, take your bramma and a meta melee weapon build and run a Sortie and look when you feel like you need to roar to overcome the challenge.

When you have people who make sure that no one else in the team get to do any work as they nuke the map, this will surely make it worse and available for higher level missions. But since DE isn't going to do anything about it, all i can do is avoid being in any kind of "team work" scenario and simply continue to play solo. Maybe when this erases any and all excuses left to not nerf warframes and weapons, they finally will. They won't, but it could happen.

[elZach]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Yggranya:

When you have people who make sure that no one else in the team get to do any work as they nuke the map, this will surely make it worse and available for higher level missions. But since DE isn't going to do anything about it, all i can do is avoid being in any kind of "team work" scenario and simply continue to play solo. Maybe when this erases any and all excuses left to not nerf warframes and weapons, they finally will. They won't, but it could happen.

Nuking is a seperate discussion to this. Frames can nuke maps now, frames will be able to nuke maps then. I fail to see how this will make it worse. As there is currently no higher level survive/defense/excavation mission which isn't nukeable in some form or another. Although I agree with the general sentiment that nuking doesn't create fun gameplay for teammembers. But fun is very subjective and I do think there are people who generate more fun from blazing through Affinity farms for mastery, while someone nukes every wave around them in record time.

[T-Shark69]

1 hour ago, LittleSuccubus said:

Why bring Rhino for Roar when Wisp can do the same. 🤔

Didnt know you could put both Roar and Shock Trooper on Wisp. Only frame better would be prolly Grendel, which is funny because he looks more like a rhino than Rhino. 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, elZach said:

Listen, I know many of you thought the helminth system would be purposefully made garbage in advance, when it was announced and are now flabbergasted that there are worthwhile abilities in the list. And I also do know that a Damage Multiplier sounds like the strongest thing.

However Roar, while definitely useful is absolutely getting overrated and doesn't warrant your panic. Of the top of my head, there are only two instances in the game, where players would need more damage. That's eidolons and arguably steelpath.

Do the best weapons need a damage buff to trivialize the games content? No. In terms of weapons, only those weapons which are struggling to kill enemies would net a benefit, while often the most deciding factor isn't how hard you can kill an enemy, but how many of them at once.

Do the highest DPS abilities need a damage buff? From what I've seen this only holds true in either Steelpath or event-content. Mesa especially is very popular, but her per tick output starts to struggle in very high level content. I don't think Saryns really benefit from building strength/roar, because killing enemies to quickly limits the spread of their Spores and will probably result in a net loss of dps. 
Although there might be frames who at this point can't compete with the top damage abilities in the game and maybe could catch up to the top like ember, nukelimbo or quakebanshee.

Ofcourse Eidolonhunter Volt would benefit greatly from Roar and will probably be a meta pick - however for the vast majority of the games content roaring simply isn't needed and of all the Mass-CC, pulling, Ressource-generating abilities in the pool to fret about the most generic +Damage ability is a little silly.

 

Don't get me wrong, the first weeks of the system being available will probably still be everyone cramming roar into every frame. Because the ressources are limited and +Damage is an easy to understand and reliable pick. But I don't think roar will turn out to be the best pick for most frames.

As an experiment: pick Rhino, take your bramma and a meta melee weapon build and run a Sortie and look when you feel like you need to roar to overcome the challenge.

Me putting the Firewalker mod on my speed-duration Loki Prime and turning to RAWR! nation and the Gauss mains...

”Hold my Beer”.

[(PSN)thowed]

Would've been nice if other frames would've got to subsume their "roar" instead of "charge" lol.

[Rakosta_Kai]

Roar is nifty...

That said, I'm way more interested in the other abilities tbh. Like Defense for squishy frames and Control for frames that lack it.

I fully plan to load Condemn on both Ash and Hydroid for entirely different reasons.

Damage tends to take care of itself.

[Jarriaga]

I will only add Roar when I feel there are no other beneficial options. I don't want to default to the most boring option just because it's very efficient. 

[Serafim_94]

3 часа назад, elZach сказал:

However Roar, while definitely useful is absolutely getting overrated and doesn't warrant your panic. Of the top of my head, there are only two instances in the game, where players would need more damage. That's eidolons and arguably steelpath.

However mods, while definitely useful are absolutely getting overrated and doesn't warrant your panic. Of the top of my head, there is only one instance in the game where players would need more damage. That's anything past Earth.

Here. Did I make this statement idiotic enough? Or should I try something like "weapons are overrated" too?

 

[elZach]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Serafim_94:

However mods, while definitely useful are absolutely getting overrated and doesn't warrant your panic. Of the top of my head, there is only one instance in the game where players would need more damage. That's anything past Earth.

Here. Did I make this statement idiotic enough? Or should I try something like "weapons are overrated" too?

 

are you ok?

[Hypernaut1]

Since we can add and swap out several powers, maybe I'll put roar on all frames just as a backup. I can't see myself always using it though. Buff powers get boring after a while.