Conservation, Son Tokens, and ranking up

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 hours ago, Chewarette said:

Same here. Was waiting for Helminth to drop to have some fun here and there. Now I won't be able to reach R3 at all, because I'm not the type of person to play a game that bores me and Conservation is extremely painful to do if you're colorblind (and it seems worse than ever in Deimos as everything here have the same tint colors my eyes can't detect).

As Helminth will be forever (let's be honest here, they won't remove Son from existence) inaccessible and I couldn't care less about the Necramech thing, there is absolutely nothing new for players like me in this update.

Oh come on guy, please stop with this weak-af argument. At this point I swear DE could implement a 800$ paywall upon crafting any Warframe that you'd be here telling people "but you don't NEED to pay right ? nobody points a gun to your head !!!".

That's literally the weakest and most useless argument of all internet discussions about videogames (on par with "you want challenge ? then play without stuff, bare-feet and with your screens off !). Stop doing that. Really.

Really not what I was implying. Point is, you can do this system slowly and casually or you can go hard and grind it. Or you can sit back and ignore it, plenty of people ignore focus cos they don't want to do it, this is really no different. Paywalls, no I will side with those but wanting us to do all the activities offered in open world, I can understand. As I said earlier, make it a breeze to get like everything else in this game and people will be complaining and demanding content within a week. Exactly like what happened with Fortuna, so I can understand the different approach. It's still very doable, sometimes in life you don't always enjoy everything you do.

[Lichformed]

9 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

You mentioned operators seeing as the grind for that system maxed is far more time consuming than this will be. People who don't like Eidolons haven't maxed theit focus, it's your choice whether you do this or not. And I am also willing to bet this grand prize toy has a use in future released content too by the way so I doubt it'll be useless.

But I did not argue about how much time the grind consumes at all, with Operators I could actually have fun and play around with them even if they were sub-optimal, now that I have mine nearly maxed I can do Kuva Survivals with my boy just for fun, it's a grind with a reward that had me playing for a long time.

I already have the conservation targets and whatnot done, while my operator is not done the difference is I can have a lot more fun in so many different places I will have if I grind out Necramechs.

Also you set up to be captain hindshight, I have a maxed Amesha and the Kuva archgun, in how many places do I actually end up using them? Pretty much none, it's completely up to the mercy of [DE] to make Necramechs worth it, but looking at the past and current there's no reason to grind one out at all.

[VRHmason]

16 hours ago, Kconvey said:

IN 6 months they will put a catch up mechanism that will make most of this obsolete.

well then...I'll be seeing you all in 6 months.

I already have a day job, don't need one in Warframe...

[VRHmason]

16 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Then don't play it. Imagine having to grind in a grinding game. Perhaps this isn't the kind of game for you and you'd be happier playing something else.

I don't mind grind, I mind stupid mini games nobody signed up for.
If you wish to fish, you have fishing simulator...or if you like hunting buy deer hunter

[VRHmason]

9 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

From reading most of the comments it seems as if people want to rank up standing the fastest way possible and since it's not as fast as they'd like they complain about it.

Well then you have a really bad reading comprehension 

 

From what I've read people (including me) don't want to play catching animals...
Didn't read one thing about grind or time it takes to get something, people complain about activity they are forced to do.

People complain about content being locked behind stupid mini games nobody signed up for.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, VRHmason said:

I don't mind grind, I mind stupid mini games nobody signed up for.
If you wish to fish, you have fishing simulator...or if you like hunting buy deer hunter

Fair enough, I respect your opinion. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, Lichformed said:

But I did not argue about how much time the grind consumes at all, with Operators I could actually have fun and play around with them even if they were sub-optimal, now that I have mine nearly maxed I can do Kuva Survivals with my boy just for fun, it's a grind with a reward that had me playing for a long time.

I already have the conservation targets and whatnot done, while my operator is not done the difference is I can have a lot more fun in so many different places I will have if I grind out Necramechs.

Also you set up to be captain hindshight, I have a maxed Amesha and the Kuva archgun, in how many places do I actually end up using them? Pretty much none, it's completely up to the mercy of [DE] to make Necramechs worth it, but looking at the past and current there's no reason to grind one out at all.

Perhaps some people don't like grinding focus? Point I was making is that they can choose whether or not to. 
Also on your last point, gravimags would beg to differ. 

[_Connor]

The trade in system for son takens is absolutely braindead. The combinations of subspecies being randomly thrown together means that out of the few token 'packs' that are available every cycle, the time required to capture the specific rng-spawn subspecies is absurd. Conservation was never required for progress in Fortuna, so why the hell is progress gated behind it now in Deimos? I can't stand this S#&$. 

[Lichformed]

5 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Perhaps some people don't like grinding focus? Point I was making is that they can choose whether or not to. 
Also on your last point, gravimags would beg to differ. 

Yes I have gravimags and they're still useless as they don't get buffed by my damage arcanes.

And player choosing to go through a miserable grind does not make the grind good.

[Chewarette]

50 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Really not what I was implying. Point is, you can do this system slowly and casually or you can go hard and grind it. Or you can sit back and ignore it, plenty of people ignore focus cos they don't want to do it, this is really no different. Paywalls, no I will side with those but wanting us to do all the activities offered in open world, I can understand. As I said earlier, make it a breeze to get like everything else in this game and people will be complaining and demanding content within a week. Exactly like what happened with Fortuna, so I can understand the different approach. It's still very doable, sometimes in life you don't always enjoy everything you do.

In this case you can't casually farm the Son tokens. You have to actively do this, which means sacrificing action-packed gametime for insanely slow-af hunting stuff that a good chunk of the playerbase doesn't care about. So yes, it's gated and no way to get around it. R3 could have asked either X Son tokens or 2000 Mother tokens, we would have a choice between one S#&$load of bounties or conservation. This is not the case here. And the main gripe here, if Standing was just for Deimos content (aka necramech, captura scenes or whatever else), that'd be approximately acceptable. But they've hyped Helminth at Tennocon just for you to be locked out of it FOREVER if you don't want to do conservation.

This doesn't make sense.

[Circle_of_Psi]

I'm not even past Rank 1 and I'm afraid to do this crap, all I want is the darn Segment, can't we just buy it like the others, or better yet have it lower rank?. The resources you need to build the segment as well is dumb.

[ShortCat]

1 hour ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

But I'm usually against them making the game just too casual.

Offering multiple independent paths to reach a certain goal has absolutely nothing to do with being casual. You are arguing against a strawman you set up yourself, while people have entirely different concerns.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, Chewarette said:

In this case you can't casually farm the Son tokens. You have to actively do this, which means sacrificing action-packed gametime for insanely slow-af hunting stuff that a good chunk of the playerbase doesn't care about. So yes, it's gated and no way to get around it. R3 could have asked either X Son tokens or 2000 Mother tokens, we would have a choice between one S#&$load of bounties or conservation. This is not the case here. And the main gripe here, if Standing was just for Deimos content (aka necramech, captura scenes or whatever else), that'd be approximately acceptable. But they've hyped Helminth at Tennocon just for you to be locked out of it FOREVER if you don't want to do conservation.

This doesn't make sense.

Sorry I didn't put that well, what I meant by casually is just conserving the animals you spot between bounties, vaults etc that's all I've been doing. Helios points it out, tranq it and continue with the bounty basically.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Offering multiple independent paths to reach a certain goal has absolutely nothing to do with being casual. You are arguing against a strawman you set up yourself, while people have entirely different concerns.

yawn.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, Lichformed said:

Yes I have gravimags and they're still useless as they don't get buffed by my damage arcanes.

And player choosing to go through a miserable grind does not make the grind good.

Except they're not useless if you want to do Profit Taker.

[Myscho]

30 minutes ago, _Connor said:

Conservation was never required for progress in Fortuna, so why the hell is progress gated behind it now in Deimos?

That right there is your answer, because nobody give sht about it in Vallis

[vegetosayajin]

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Sorry I didn't put that well, what I meant by casually is just conserving the animals you spot between bounties, vaults etc that's all I've been doing. Helios points it out, tranq it and continue with the bounty basically.

I did about 50+ bounties, captured only 1 "randomly" and I am with helios and looking around all the time. 
Don't get your good rng as the default.


Conservation is a bs requirement. If only this wasn't there mandatory I would give this update 10/10, but with it in it goes ot 5/10.

[Chewarette]

12 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Sorry I didn't put that well, what I meant by casually is just conserving the animals you spot between bounties, vaults etc that's all I've been doing. Helios points it out, tranq it and continue with the bounty basically.

Yup I got you but as far as I understood (I didn't have time nor motivation to play since yesterday), Son's requests for the R3 are not casual captures but the rarest ? Which very likely won't happen casually.

If it can be done casually while doing other things - then I agree, it's acceptable (even though not ideal).

[Monolake]

Im really pissed off, Ive tried for like 2 hrs to catch this Avichaea, and its just bugged  - points dont activate, tracks dont show up - lower left corner point is 100% broken, only one point in around the middle worked for me 2 times out of 5 runs. This being mandatory is complete bulliS#&$.  Worse than any grind is needing to grind something that you cant find because it barely works. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, Chewarette said:

Yup I got you but as far as I understood (I didn't have time nor motivation to play since yesterday), Son's requests for the R3 are not casual captures but the rarest ? Which very likely won't happen casually.

If it can be done casually while doing other things - then I agree, it's acceptable (even though not ideal).

Fair enough. I think the initial rankup can be done this way(been a bit busy with work) maybe not some of the tags for sure. I mean, let's not forget that Fortuna conservation was very bugged to begin with, if you can get the initial tags needed and they work on fixing the lure points I don't think it'll be as bad as many have made out.

[DancingJoker]

It was not fun in any way shape or form, but I managed to get the tags I needed for rank 3 and the Helminth segment.  It took me 3 and a half hours of dedicated game-play.  I would much rather have spent twice or even five times that doing some activity that I enjoy, like you know, the main game-play of Warframe.  I really wish there was some way to substitute some other form of activity for the hunting.  It really didn't help that something like 20% of the hunts I did bugged out one way or another, the most common being no tracks ever spawning.

[Ikusias]

What pisses me off more is that avichaea lure is locked after 3rd rank faction... while it was among the offers at first rank why aren't rank up offers presented with their respective faction value?

Considering how much difference there can be between each other it feels like a very deliberate rip off (and screw you) from DE!

(this issue exist since plain of eidolons but at least there the wiki was already updated with vendors inventories)

[Lichformed]

1 hour ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Except they're not useless if you want to do Profit Taker.

And my argument was about rewards tied to the whole game and not just one intended system, archguns as a reward outside Fortuna is good, but there's a reason I have done 0 Profit Takers and why I don't recommend anyone to go grind an Archgun.

It's two syndicate grinds and a miserable 1% drop farm to advance the other to get a tool to do content that is 100% irrelevant.

It's cool to have an archgun but utterly useless. Outside the one thing it's designed to be forced on.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

@Chewarette for the record I tried it after I finished work, took me 1 hour to get 8 common avichacea and 16 son tokens. Don't give up mate it's not a long grind even if it's something you'd rather not do.

[Chewarette]

2 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

@Chewarette for the record I tried it after I finished work, took me 1 hour to get 8 common avichacea and 16 son tokens. Don't give up mate it's not a long grind even if it's something you'd rather not do.

Thanks for the info mate 🙂

But I really, really don't want to try it at all and get frustrated. Conservation was always my nemesis due to colorblindness not allowing me to properly see tracks, so I prefer just give up about Helminth as a whole until they put the Segment in the market for 300 plats or whatever.