Do stances still make difference in a wepon

[(PSN)adachi_2]

Topic

[Birdframe_Prime]

Yeah, I would say that Stances are a huge part of weapon modding at the moment.

For example, there is a bit of a debate going on right now on the effectiveness for Dual Swords of Swirling Tiger versus Carving Mantis.

Swirling Tiger has an amazing basic combo with 5 normal hits on the first attack with a guaranteed Slash proc on the sixth hit, then the second attack is a 3x damage hit with another guaranteed Slash proc, while the third attack is a double-hit with a guaranteed knock-down at 3x damage. This takes only 2 seconds to pull off at normal speed, and any fast weapons will massively boost that, and the multi-hits on the forward combo and block combo are considerable.

Carving Mantis has much longer base combos with three guaranteed Slash procs in the chain, an average of 2-3x damage multipliers on the hits, but the downside is that the base combo also Lifts (which can be annoying if you aren't building for that). There's also a lot of multi-hits on the forward combo, and you can also mix in a forward-block combo that does a knock-down and the block combo which has another guaranteed Slash proc, lots of multi-hits and a 4x multiplier on the final knock-down.

They're both even on knocked-down enemies, though, with both stances doing a double-hit of 8x damage that procs Slash.

Stinging Thorn makes all the difference in the world for Daggers, with combos that deal massive amounts of bleed procs, have high damage multipliers on nearly every hit, and can even trigger Slam attacks on one combo.

Cyclone Kraken makes Machetes viable, where they almost never were before, with massive damage multipliers on the basic combo and the forward-block combo, plus any hit that's actually at normal strength is part of an attack that hits at least twice, if not three times. You also get a rather fun mechanic that's for Heavy Attack builds, which is the Stance has a guaranteed Bleed on the Heavy Attack.

That leads on to the more fun Stances, the ones where the Heavy Attack is a massive option for playing the weapon.

While Vulpine Mask is the only stance for Rapiers, it has the Heavy Attack you can build for which has a 4.5x damage multiplier and guaranteed bleed on both hits. Wise Razor has the same for the Two-handed Nikanas, and some of the Dagger stances will do that too, making things like the Karyst Prime an amazing Heavy Attack weapon.

And then you get to the ones that are... a little scary when you put on the stance.

The Kronen Prime with Soverign Outcast on them will build Combo in seconds. The first attack of the basic combo hits 6 times, the second hits 3 times with multipliers, the third hits 4 times a 2x damage with guaranteed bleed on every hit, and the final attack hits twice at 3x damage and knocks down enemies. The forward-block combo is a radial attack that hits 6 times on everything in a cone in front of you, meaning you can get insane amounts of multi-hits with that... it's absolutely blistering with the prime Tonfas, they're genuinely top-tier in the game with or without a riven.

It's kind of put DE under a little pressure. The upcoming Deimos Arcana update is supposed to release with a few new stances for weapons, and if they don't actually perform well... you're definitely going to hear about it from the players.

So.

Yeah, I would say that Stances make a huge difference right now.

You can customise a weapon, like a sword, to deal only a few massively multiplied hits on combo for a high-damage burs, or have that same sword multi-hit for building Combo and raising supplemental stats through modding. You can build for Heavy Attacks and one-shot enemies through massive defenses... it's really interesting for melee these days.

[quxier]

On 2020-10-19 at 1:05 AM, Brynslustafir said:

IMO the difference in quality between stances is smaller now than ever before. Use whatever feels good to control, don't fret over attack speed or procs. 

This. If a weapon have many stances then 1 or more stances may not have full combos (e.g. only 2 types of combos instead of 4). So you may disregard those stances.
Some stances have different combos (not only animations) like hammers, afair. Gunblades have 2 stances and is very different (High noon is slower, more melee oriented; Bullet dance cares more about shooting; there is one combo in both stances that should be swapped).

In lots of cases I only care if a stance has matching polarity and it has all 4 combos.

[(PSN)Claudija]

19 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

No worries ^^

It comes from the simple desire that DE has had since the very beginning of the game; get players to re-Forma everything if they want things to be more specialised. Specialisation breeds limitation, so having to re-Forma when new mods and stances are released feeds the cycle.

I'm fairly sure they make an absolute mint through people actually buying Forma every time a new weapon, frame, companion or set of mods is released...

I think you're spot on there. I have taken a liking to Burning Wasp thanks to your help in understanding it more and I'll be asking yoyr advice any time I'm unsure about any Stance choices.

Thank you so very, very much 

[Birdframe_Prime]

No worries ^^

1 minute ago, (PS4)Claudija said:

Which always puzzled me, why is there a polarity on a lot of Stance slots? It seems a really odd decision to make....

It comes from the simple desire that DE has had since the very beginning of the game; get players to re-Forma everything if they want things to be more specialised. Specialisation breeds limitation, so having to re-Forma when new mods and stances are released feeds the cycle.

I'm fairly sure they make an absolute mint through people actually buying Forma every time a new weapon, frame, companion or set of mods is released...

[(PSN)Claudija]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Afraid there's only two whip Stances out there at the moment. Burning Wasp is for single hits at high damage, with every hit dealing at least double-damage, the basic combo deals 3x damage each hit for only two hits. Forward Combo deals double-damage on all attacks with a Lift at the end, Forward-Block combo does two hits of 3x damage without the knock-down. Good for Heavy Attacks, though, has two hits at 4.5x multipliers with a guaranteed Bleed and Knock-down on both hits.

And Coiling Viper is the other, with even less options. It only has a Forward combo and Forward Block combo. First deals double damage on the first attacks, with a double-hit at the end for 4x damage, while the other deals double and triple damage with a knock-down. Same stats on the Heavy Attack, though, so if you build for it you'll be mulching quite a lot of enemies with the right Whip.

There's not really anything that takes advantage of what Whips can do, but they're pretty solid weapons even so. Atterax is still great for either the Light Attack build for Status and Crit scaling, or you can have fun with the Heavy Attack thanks to a decent damage and the stance. Scoliac is a really good alternative, thanks to a much higher base attack speed (to balance out the lesser Crit Chance) so it can still be built for Light Attack, but then the Heavy Attack is all Toxin damage, which makes it an absolute beast for Corpus killing through their Shields. And the Secura Lecta will do well with either, plus it has a base of Electricity damage as well as Puncture and Slash, with a high base speed so you can actually do a lot of work with it.

Kind of wish there really was something that would make them act more like whips, but... I think there's still time. Heck, maybe Deimos Arcana will have a whip stance?

Thank you for taking the time to help me out, I've been using Wasp mostly unless the Whip dislikes it. Which always puzzled me, why is there a polarity on a lot of Stance slots? It seems a really odd decision to make....

[Birdframe_Prime]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Claudija said:

Is there a Whips stance similar to the Whip and Sword Stance: Defiled Snapdragon that you can remember please?

Afraid there's only two whip Stances out there at the moment. Burning Wasp is for single hits at high damage, with every hit dealing at least double-damage, the basic combo deals 3x damage each hit for only two hits. Forward Combo deals double-damage on all attacks with a Lift at the end, Forward-Block combo does two hits of 3x damage without the knock-down. Good for Heavy Attacks, though, has two hits at 4.5x multipliers with a guaranteed Bleed and Knock-down on both hits.

And Coiling Viper is the other, with even less options. It only has a Forward combo and Forward Block combo. First deals double damage on the first attacks, with a double-hit at the end for 4x damage, while the other deals double and triple damage with a knock-down. Same stats on the Heavy Attack, though, so if you build for it you'll be mulching quite a lot of enemies with the right Whip.

There's not really anything that takes advantage of what Whips can do, but they're pretty solid weapons even so. Atterax is still great for either the Light Attack build for Status and Crit scaling, or you can have fun with the Heavy Attack thanks to a decent damage and the stance. Scoliac is a really good alternative, thanks to a much higher base attack speed (to balance out the lesser Crit Chance) so it can still be built for Light Attack, but then the Heavy Attack is all Toxin damage, which makes it an absolute beast for Corpus killing through their Shields. And the Secura Lecta will do well with either, plus it has a base of Electricity damage as well as Puncture and Slash, with a high base speed so you can actually do a lot of work with it.

Kind of wish there really was something that would make them act more like whips, but... I think there's still time. Heck, maybe Deimos Arcana will have a whip stance?

[(PSN)Claudija]

15 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Yeah, I would say that Stances are a huge part of weapon modding at the moment.

For example, there is a bit of a debate going on right now on the effectiveness for Dual Swords of Swirling Tiger versus Carving Mantis.

Swirling Tiger has an amazing basic combo with 5 normal hits on the first attack with a guaranteed Slash proc on the sixth hit, then the second attack is a 3x damage hit with another guaranteed Slash proc, while the third attack is a double-hit with a guaranteed knock-down at 3x damage. This takes only 2 seconds to pull off at normal speed, and any fast weapons will massively boost that, and the multi-hits on the forward combo and block combo are considerable.

Carving Mantis has much longer base combos with three guaranteed Slash procs in the chain, an average of 2-3x damage multipliers on the hits, but the downside is that the base combo also Lifts (which can be annoying if you aren't building for that). There's also a lot of multi-hits on the forward combo, and you can also mix in a forward-block combo that does a knock-down and the block combo which has another guaranteed Slash proc, lots of multi-hits and a 4x multiplier on the final knock-down.

They're both even on knocked-down enemies, though, with both stances doing a double-hit of 8x damage that procs Slash.

Stinging Thorn makes all the difference in the world for Daggers, with combos that deal massive amounts of bleed procs, have high damage multipliers on nearly every hit, and can even trigger Slam attacks on one combo.

Cyclone Kraken makes Machetes viable, where they almost never were before, with massive damage multipliers on the basic combo and the forward-block combo, plus any hit that's actually at normal strength is part of an attack that hits at least twice, if not three times. You also get a rather fun mechanic that's for Heavy Attack builds, which is the Stance has a guaranteed Bleed on the Heavy Attack.

That leads on to the more fun Stances, the ones where the Heavy Attack is a massive option for playing the weapon.

While Vulpine Mask is the only stance for Rapiers, it has the Heavy Attack you can build for which has a 4.5x damage multiplier and guaranteed bleed on both hits. Wise Razor has the same for the Two-handed Nikanas, and some of the Dagger stances will do that too, making things like the Karyst Prime an amazing Heavy Attack weapon.

And then you get to the ones that are... a little scary when you put on the stance.

The Kronen Prime with Soverign Outcast on them will build Combo in seconds. The first attack of the basic combo hits 6 times, the second hits 3 times with multipliers, the third hits 4 times a 2x damage with guaranteed bleed on every hit, and the final attack hits twice at 3x damage and knocks down enemies. The forward-block combo is a radial attack that hits 6 times on everything in a cone in front of you, meaning you can get insane amounts of multi-hits with that... it's absolutely blistering with the prime Tonfas, they're genuinely top-tier in the game with or without a riven.

It's kind of put DE under a little pressure. The upcoming Deimos Arcana update is supposed to release with a few new stances for weapons, and if they don't actually perform well... you're definitely going to hear about it from the players.

So.

Yeah, I would say that Stances make a huge difference right now.

You can customise a weapon, like a sword, to deal only a few massively multiplied hits on combo for a high-damage burs, or have that same sword multi-hit for building Combo and raising supplemental stats through modding. You can build for Heavy Attacks and one-shot enemies through massive defenses... it's really interesting for melee these days.

Is there a Whips stance similar to the Whip and Sword Stance: Defiled Snapdragon that you can remember please? I love Snapdragon as standard lashes around the frame for when surrounded such as Defense missions but Aim held with that is a Khora Whipclaw effect that tears up Eximus units, Demolists and Ancient Healer-type enemies and wondered if the second whips had a similar Stance? Thanks you for your help

[Brynslustafir]

IMO the difference in quality between stances is smaller now than ever before. Use whatever feels good to control, don't fret over attack speed or procs. 

[(PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO]

Nowadays, how the stance feels in-game, will make you love the weapon or hate it.

[VoidArkhangel]

Nikanas have two different finishers wich depends on the stance

[Cyloss]

Reaping Spiral has a 100% chance to procc slash on heavy attack, its the reason scythes are so popular

[(XBOX)CaptainSeth5423]

They do actually they can increase their and can deal a specific proc related to impact puncture and slash

[lnfine]

Arguably after melee rework stances are the only thing that makes the difference. Unless it's a really S#&$ty weapon.

[RobWasHere]

They do. Some has multipliers on hit damage, some do forced procs, some do multihits, some lunge your forwards giving mobility.

[Traumtulpe]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)amazing021throne said:

Well I saw this youtuber

That was your first mistake. I mean, you can watch them obviously, but don't take their clickbait seriously.

"This is broken: Absolutely insane damage warframe crazy crit learn to make plat from home click here now for a free trial* bonus enlargement pill included. (*free trials are not, in fact, free) Secret Big Bang build details in the video!!!!"

"Oh my god, that Youtuber stole my unique build where I put Roar on X Warframe, also Warframe is dying and so are we all, the end of the world is upon us vote Trump 2020 MAGA!"

[Xylena_Lazarow]

Mobility is the biggest difference. Damage? Technically, but its importance in this context is overrated. Melee is never short on raw damage.

[Proscriptor]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)amazing021throne said:

Topic

yes, big difference

[krc473]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)amazing021throne said:

Well I saw this youtuber who said "sovereignboutcast has the power of a gram prime riven "

I would suggest ignoring that person. The power of a riven isn’t fixed, it depends on the stats on the riven so it’s really not a good comparison.

 

Sovereign Outcast does have lots of modifiers on it. I have no idea how it compares to any riven. Here is a Wiki link, there is a table that shows them.

[(PSN)adachi_2]

2 minutes ago, krc473 said:

It really depends on what kind of differences you are talking about. But I guess the answer is: yes, they do. Possibly not all do.

Well I saw this youtuber who said "sovereignboutcast has the power of a gram prime riven "

[krc473]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)amazing021throne said:

Topic

It really depends on what kind of differences you are talking about. But I guess the answer is: yes, they do. Possibly not all do.