"Play Solo!" Solution, or problem? Want to talk about this.

[ReddyDisco]

I play solo when there is:
1) Spy Sortie

2) Fishing/mining

3)Railjack

4)Syndicate mission

5)SP survival to test builds

6)Profit Taker/Exploiter 

There's plenty of reason why ppl would prefer to play solo. could be there was a player making bad puns, completely understandable 

[SenorClipClop]

Your post seems to talk about a lot of issues I think aren't directly related, but what you say is interesting, so I'll discuss a few points this made me think of.

• Bugs. Bugs happen, they are unintended, and I don't really see them factoring into design, as they aren't an intentional part of design.
• Ping, Lag, Hosting. These things are more to do with players' specs and less to do with game design. Chances are if you try to load into a game and never do, there's an issue either with a graphics/video card somewhere, or someone's internet connection isn't beefy enough. These are more player-to-player problems than they are development issues. That said, it'd be nice if there was an "Only Host" option for people with dicey connections, so that they could consistently load into games and either get a squad or play solo passively, and not have to worry about the dreaded Host Migration as much.
• Certain missions feel better without a (full) squad. Couldn't agree more! Spy missions have three vaults, and your 4th Tenno twiddles their thumbs. Some Defense maps have only 2-3 major enemy ingresses, and an enemy channel rarely needs more than 1 Tenno. And of course, having too many capable Tenno turns basically any mission into a cakewalk, boringly easy. It'd be really cool if we were able to set the size of squad preferred while hosting. "I'm hosting, I'll take 2 more in my squad and that's it." I would love that kind of control, as it lets you tailor the experience to the number of things to do, and the level of balance, you want.
  • "Just matchmake if you want a squad of a certain size." Takes time, and a big part of Warframe's multiplayer appeal is that matchmaking happens passively so you can jump right into a mission. People in the current system don't really LFG for a squad of 3 specifically, but in my experience Public squads usually just play the mission out if a 4th never shows, because 3 (or even 2) Tenno can handle it. Being able to set a squad size for yourself harms no-one and only benefits picky Tenno (like me).
• "Just play Solo." For a long time people have opined that certain options, used by themselves or by squadmates, make the game too easy, boring etc. and the game would be better if it were changed; others attempt to shoot those opinions down with "just don't use them" and "just play solo". The rebuttals are similar to what tabletop gaming calls the "Oberoni Fallacy" -- essentially, a thing isn't broken if the player can customize their own experience of that element appearing in the game. It's a fallacy because if you're suggesting a player can "fix" it for themselves, it must be broken, so you can't say it isn't broken. (To test this, go to Feedback and suggest "nerf Peacemakers" and watch people come at you red in the face.)

[CrimsonSpawn]

On 2021-04-23 at 6:35 AM, MollAgdeduba said:

 Bug: Ther are a lot of mission that go bug and they will not if played in solo mode. Since removing bug is difficult, especially the one related to online, maybe give the player a way to don't lose reward and exp before leaving an unplayable mission. Maybe /save in chat will add your current drop to inventory so you cna force the closing

This is the biggest issue for me, everything else, I can manage.

Toxic player? Easy as these have been very rare for me and usually very manageable, if not, I just leave the mission and start new, I would rather enjoy the mission than have to listen/stand such a player.

Noob, Easy, just explain what you have to do, in the chat, and even if they aren't able to follow and end up failing the mission, So what? they are new to the game. help them out and if they fail, then show them that its alright, since now when we're gonna start again, you'll know what not to do. The new player will think, wow what a nice guy and you'll think, hey, did I just help someone out? And if your thinking, why am I responsible for training other players? Your not and even then, you can respectfully say, "Listen, I'm sorta farming this node and kinda was hoping to get Z part by this amount of time and not that I have anything personal against you, but if you think that its gonna be difficult for you to do the X thing at Y moment, then I would recommend that you find someone in the trade chat who can help you out or try doing the mission on your own and looking it up in the wiki before entering a public squad." (Note: I've never actually said these words in game, Never had to)

Whenever the game bugs, its just horrible. Hours of gameplay is wasted and I leave thinking, well that really sucked. Giving a recent example, was doing an isolation vault on deimos, as soon as I reached the vault, it bugged and started showing the same symbols for all 4. So, each member in the squad tried opening doing random, failed all 3 attempts and vault didn't open. Another example, was doing the index, I randomly bugged, got killed and then no revive..... waited 10 mins, revived, players got 100 plus score and all of a sudden, host migration. After that, completely bugged. My rhino was standing on a platform stuck, could not open chat, menu or do anything else, had to press the Win to close the game. With RJ, every time I enter a public squad right now (Yes, right now, even after all the hotfixes) First 10 seconds, everything is fine, then I can't access any panel to enter gunnery or leave the ship, then I can't pass through doors, then Host migration..... and what's worse is that when it comes to, I'm stuck with the previews session's host's RJ... can't even get stuck with my own.

Even when there isn't any bug, I'm still upset over the tiny fact that entering into your operator is so much smoother in solo than being in a public squad.

 

[CrimsonSpawn]

On 2021-04-23 at 10:28 AM, PublikDomain said:

I feel as though DE's art & design team have INFINITELY improved over the years or that their is a vast disconnect between the art & design team and the product pitching team

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

On 2021-04-23 at 8:35 AM, MollAgdeduba said:

Since wearframe is a "co-op game" evrything is supposed to be created around the "4 tenno team", but is the opposite.

Every Warframe is a spamming power island. There are no intentional synergies that exist or were designed to exist between Warframes. Nothing is balanced between Warframes.  Nothing in the game requires co-op to complete. All the lore quests are single player. That said, this game is really just a single player game with some multi-player aspects. Not co-op.  There is nothing co-op about this game. If this were a co-op game, 1 player wouldn’t be able to walk in to a room and delete everything there by turning into a walking simulator for everyone else, that’s not co-op. This game is single player with multiplayer options. 

[Tesseract7777]

On 2021-04-23 at 1:07 PM, MollAgdeduba said:

Second thing i want to say is that warframe is an online multiplayer co-op game. Is strange to say this, cause i think everyone should know this and for me look too obvious... but looking at what a lot of people think, make me feel confused. But at least this help me go deep in the question: 

If the game is a multiplayer co-op of 4 people, but "solo mode" has more benefit and less trouble than the "online mode", so is better play solo than online, is obvious that something is not working properly. What i want to know is what's for you that is "not working properly". *

Sure, I agree, it is a COOP game, but I think it is important to manage your expectations. 

I think you are confused, with all respect, as to why people tell others to "just play solo". 

The SAME people, who will tell you to just play solo, will also suggest, if you are a more social person, that you jump in with clannies, or form groups through recruit or discord or whatever. 

We are not saying the game "has more benefit playing solo". This game is harder to play solo, that doesn't mean it isn't still easy for some of us, but that's another can of worms. 

When people tell others to "play solo/play with clannies/make a group", it is almost always (and I don't mean you, as I don't know your history), because someone is being control freaky, and doesn't like that other players in a random group are using a frame they don't like/using an ability that annoys them/not approaching the mission the way they want/rushing things too much/taking their time too much/etc. etc. and can't accept that no matter how well designed the game, COOP matches with total randoms will always be utter chaos, and you need to embrace it and enjoy it. 

Pubs aren't for people who like a controlled situations. Pubs are for people who, if things go sideways, can both handle the mission, AND pick up allies at the same time, and enjoy it. They are for people who like the beautiful chaos of random situations where ANYTHING could happen, where this time they might be outclassed, or they might have to carry the mission, or someone might have some random build with bizarre colors, doing crazy things that somehow work. You just never know. Pubs are for people who enjoy the beauty of chaos. 

If that's not you, form a group, or go solo. It's that simple. 

COOP in this game works DANG GREAT. GREAT. I can go into any random mission with pubs and have a great freaking time every time. I don't understand why you think there is anything wrong with the current setup. I just don't understand. 

I do a random Pub and it is almost always faster than solo in any mission time, and I get to enjoy the purity of chaos at the same time. 

COOP in Warframe is working amazingly well. If you think there is something wrong with it, maybe random matches aren't for you, maybe you need to gear up better, maybe you need to manage your expectations better, or maybe all three. But it isn't the COOP itself. For those who enjoy chaos, there is nothing wrong with it at all. 

[SneakyErvin]

On 2021-04-23 at 3:35 PM, MollAgdeduba said:

Since wearframe is a "co-op game" evrything is supposed to be created around the "4 tenno team", but is the opposite. Nowdays play with more people have really a lot of more malus than play the game alone. DE, instead of aknowledge that something is wrong with the "online" and try to fix it, continue to boost the "solo mode", instead of making it a little bit difficult.

Well it really isnt a game with co-op focus since there is little or no change between going solo or co-op. You get slightly faster clear times on certain missions and some get more interesting (non steel path survival), but there is no real balance difference between solo and co-op, which is something pretty much every other co-op game has, and something I think WF has never had outside of normal survival and interception.

A level 100 heavy gunner deals as much damage and takes as much damage before dying no matter if you are 1, 2, 3 or 4 players in the group, this is an idication that the game isnt designed for co-op, since nothing really scales properly with group size. There is also no real need for group composition, never a thought of what works well and not so well together. I can just take an example of a game that makes certain combos better or worse and has scaling dependant on group size.

Look at Outriders, you have 4 different classes, each with 3 different build paths. A Trickster built for Twisted Rounds (an ammo/damage enhancer skill) works well in groups that lets it constantly kill to keep the ammo topped of so the buff never falls off, it does however not work so well with say a Pyromancer built for AoE room clearing abilities, since most trash will be dead or die before the Trickster can get a killing shot. This means that with the optimal build which involved a low mag shotgun, the Trickster runs a big risk of running out of his buff. The same build also works better solo if the others in the group arent pulling their weight DPS wise, since mob health scales up with group size and if things dont go well on elite enemies, the Trickster again may run out of ammo since he needs to shoot more bullets in a group than he does solo due to scaling. However, at a certain point in progression and with Lootcifer smiling at you, you will eventually have a mod that lets you replenish ammo on demand with a skill, which opens up more opportunities for the class in group play, even if you are around slackers, tanks or drooling Pyromancer Saryn-cosplayers, this is because the mod will allow you to fully replenish your ammo simply by using your low cooldown teleport skill, so if you see an elite going down slow you can take a breather, do some moving and teleport back to it for a final burst with ammo fully stocked.

WF just doesnt have such synergies, needs and drawbacks. It is just a come-as-you-are single player game with a co-op option for S#&$s and giggles. In order for it to be more co-op focused DE would need to scale and rebalance everything properly for groups and solo.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

The advice of “play solo-“ is specifically for people complaining about who they get match made with.

 

You’re also leaving out half the advice, it’s “play solo- -or recruit a likeminded group.”

 

I don’t really see a problem 🤷 

[Pinegulf]

On 2021-04-23 at 4:35 PM, MollAgdeduba said:

Hi. Since ther's not too much left to do for me in game, i spent a lot of time here on the forum, and i have notice that more, and more problem have this as solution: "Play Solo".

'Play solo' is just verbal equivalent of giving you the middle finger. 

[Chicken-Biryani]

Bugs, bad ping, host migration are not under anyone's control (if your internet has issues, you can't be blamed for it). 

Trolling, intentional bad team-play... The same old story, avoid stepping in stinky poo. 

In my personal opinion, I value the fact that WF allows me to play both solo and with clan-mates/friends. I wouldn't have one, if I couldn't get both. 

There will always be issues with public gameplay. But if you look at the positives, ignore the negatives, and find yourself a place in a good clan with good players, it's a bearable experience. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

Warframe is a "whatever the hell you want to do today" game. You can pub it, solo it or chill with buds it. DE has given everyone virtually every way to play the game the player wants to play and even has a frame capable of fully providing that gameplay preference of the day.

[(PSN)Yggranya]

On 2021-04-24 at 9:21 PM, SenorClipClop said:

"Just play Solo." For a long time people have opined that certain options, used by themselves or by squadmates, make the game too easy, boring etc. and the game would be better if it were changed; others attempt to shoot those opinions down with "just don't use them" and "just play solo". The rebuttals are similar to what tabletop gaming calls the "Oberoni Fallacy" -- essentially, a thing isn't broken if the player can customize their own experience of that element appearing in the game. It's a fallacy because if you're suggesting a player can "fix" it for themselves, it must be broken, so you can't say it isn't broken. (To test this, go to Feedback and suggest "nerf Peacemakers" and watch people come at you red in the face.)

I didn't know about "Oberoni Fallacy" until now. It is fitting for many things. Thanks!

[Loza03]

Playing solo isn't a problem if done out of preference, but it's not a solution to multiplayer design issues. Saying just play solo (or just use recruit chat) in response to somebody bringing up a problem with the pub group experience is just ignoring the problem.

[Aldain]

Found another good reason to go solo.

WHO ON EARTH BRINGS A MAX RANGE STRANGLEDOME KHORA TO A DEFENSE MISSION?!

Good lord even hitscan weapons had trouble hitting the enemies that got sucked onto the ceiling...and that's not counting the ones that got dragged into random parts of geometry and below stairs!

[Zimzala]

8 hours ago, Pinegulf said:

'Play solo' is just verbal equivalent of giving you the middle finger. 

This idea is the thinking of a extrovert, IME, that refuses to accept ones happiness is ones own, personal, responsibility.

The world does not owe each player like-minded players.