Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide

[Danny99s]

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

and 3 Status Types back to where it was originally

Is CO capped at 3 statuses? Has it been explained by somebody so far?

[Jedi_pup]

golden instinct is nice but i really wanted to have it on a pet as a mod. 

[Azamagon]

The game needs a statsquish overall, not more powercreep. The melee nerfs are fine (particularly making Berserker part of the Fury-series), the rest seems kind of unnecessary.

I will say though, I'm gonna enjoy the primary/secondary weapon arcanes' qol effects (quicker reload, less recoil) - because those FEEL like they have an impact on the gun in question. Just adding more and more damage is boring to mod for, imo.

[Sylonus]

2 hours ago, Sanchezjoax said:

Why are you even playing this game then lmao

For the power fantasy, which is why it's so annoying when they make what I'm chasing feel bad again.

[Damocles]

Allow me to summarize for you:
~20 nerfs, 6 gun buffs but you can only choose 2

Glaives do half damage, and takes twice as long to throw

Blood Rush and condition overload takes 1/3 nerf EACH, so 5/9 compounded which is more than half if you used both

Berserker won't work on bossfights; needs kills to procc

Kuva Nukor now hits half as many enemies

We get new mods, but they also requires you to get kills to become a slight improvement to existing mods.

If you're not able to kill something, the buffs take no effect to help you kill something. Nice inverse feedback loop!

[GhostSX]

One question.

How does this fix any of the bad weapons at all ? This update is there for primary and seconday weapons to be effective in Steel Path etc but it doesn't because you can't kill anything with the already bad weapons like Burston Prime etc in Steel Path and so you dont get any of the benefits listed on those mods/arcanes because they're "On kill/On Headshot kill" effects.

[Leqesai]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Condition Overload doesn't interact properly with heavy attacks. Its damage bonus is not affected by the combo multiplier on heavy attacks.
It should go like this: (1 + CO bonus) x Combo Counter
Currently, it goes like this (Combo Counter + CO bonus)

Why would you expect condition overload to interact this way with the combo multiplier? The current math makes sense. You should not be getting a multiplier on top of CO with Heavy Attacks...

[Damocles]

18 minutes ago, GhostSX said:

One question.

How does this fix any of the bad weapons at all ? This update is there for primary and seconday weapons to be effective in Steel Path etc but it doesn't because you can't kill anything with the already bad weapons like Burston Prime etc in Steel Path and so you dont get any of the benefits listed on those mods/arcanes because they're "On kill/On Headshot kill" effects.

EXACTLY RIGHT my friend, very observant of you.

[Jukantos]

Steel path is the one thing in 7000 hours i never completed because of my dislike for instant hitscan death and the (perceived) need for melee spam.

So now none of my MR30 7000 hour almost complete set of gear will be strong enough to compete with Steel path enemies - and to grow the power needed to take them on, i'm supposed to... farm steel path and Acolytes specifically (the one enemy even my 10k hp Arcane Grace Inaros with max melee weapon power couldn't beat reliably)

Am i the only one who sees a frankly bizarre requirement vs "reward" loop there?

I get to play an even more miserable version of Steel path to eventually obtain the option to jump through added gameplay hoops to be powerful enough to kill the steel path enemies i already didn't enjoy fighting?

I.... i'm just speechless. I don't know what rationalization other than a falsely perceived desperate need to break up the power of melee could've justified this. Again, at MR30 with maxed old melee, Steel Path was miserable. Because Sponge enemies are neither difficult nor fun, they're just sponges.

[ReasonX]

2分钟前 , Petroklos 说:

Okay, sure, for Level Cap Missions, these might be a problem. So would be losing all your Combo Multiplier. Simple solution, don't let them run out. If the Buff Durations are too short we can complain about that, but lets actually test it first, eh?

And really now, since when are Level Cap Missions even remotely relevant to the Game's Balancing?

Eidolons don't need more Damage, that's why people can do 5x3s and even more/faster, Solo, with Volt, without infusing Roar. And for regular Squads, they don't need more Damage exactly because People can and should pick a Damage Buffing Frame. Lets not Powercreep the last bastion of Squad Play out of the Game, please.

On Lv9999 missions, we need more damage, but we died before the mod heats up.

On eidolon hunt, the new mods never heats up.

On daily missions, we dont need more damage, and have no interest to invest the new mods.

ALL OF the new mods are lv.10 mods, which needs lots of endos to upgrade, and they dont deserve their price.

Killing trigger is silly, it force you to use the same weapon and keeps shooting, and it will be very boring in long term missions.

It runs to the opposite side of DE's goal: let every weapon useful, let the game interesting.

 

[Matthias_Clan]

Having to grind steel path to get the mods and arcanes to be able to do the steel path is weird.  You’re basically saying that you don’t want melee weapons to be dominant, but you want us to use those dominant melee weapons to get the tools to make them not dominant.  But then you also make melees worse which means making the grind to get your ranged weapons stronger is going to feel that much worse.  Do you want people to lose interest in this part of your game?  Because this is how you lose interest in this part of your game.

Also Yeah the Arcane unlocked is a big no for me.  It further limits my ability to go into my arsenal and try a new weapon loadout and I hate it.  Forma is bad enough for that but I accept it as a necessary evil to keep the game profitable.

[Damocles]

22 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Why would you expect condition overload to interact this way with the combo multiplier? The current math makes sense. You should not be getting a multiplier on top of CO with Heavy Attacks...

That's how sensible reasoning works, but that's not have its written in the game.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

4 minutes ago, -Damocles- said:

Allow me to summarize for you:
~20 nerfs, 6 gun buffs but you can only choose 2

Glaives do half damage, and takes twice as long to throw

Blood Rush and condition overload takes 1/3 nerf EACH, so 5/9 compounded which is more than half if you used both

Berserker won't work on bossfights; needs kills to procc

Kuva Nukor now hits half as many enemies

We get new mods, but they also requires you to get kills to become a slight improvement to existing mods.

If you're not able to kill something, the buffs take no effect to help you kill something. Nice inverse feedback loop!

Mods should go a head a pin this on top of this thread as TL;DR 

[(PSN)Alphonso-Alonso]

20 minutes ago, -Damocles- said:

EXACTLY RIGHT my friend, very observant of you.

Not to mention you will have to replace one mod on your “insufficient“ build to fit a conditional mod that will only activate once you kill an enemy you are struggling to kill at all. Then you turn to see 23 more guys rushing you. (Steel path generates more enemies with denser armor I am not trying to be hyperbolic)

[Duality52]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Any Player who owns a Kuva Nukor will receive an extra 2 x Built Forma.

Silly question, but will any player who got their Kuva Nukor captured by the Zanuka Hunter count as well?

The Galvanized Mods are an interesting blend of the Acolyte mods along with standard mods. But keep in mind that aiming down sights drastically lowers our mobility. The numbers could give an extra bump to make that mobility tradeoff.

I'm a bit surprised that Glaive Prime's forced Slash proc on explosion isn't getting touched. Controversial as it is, that should be changed to be more skillful over being easily spammed and achievable. 

Overall, decent changes along with how Berserker will be a standalone from (Primed) Fury.

[XaelathRavenstorm]

Most of them need tweaks but I am loving their direction so far.

The gun buffs through mods and arcanes turned out great although I think that the non-AOE weapon arcanes needs like twice the buff. The melee nerfs are not enough even though I don't use them as mashing E is the most boring way to play Warframe. Waiting for the 10th invigoration for the Warframe of your choice is pretty long. New Helminth abilities are pretty niche. I want more control on the Parazon finisher since we'll still 1 hit those enemies anyways.

I was expecting a second set of subsumable ability from a Warframe or an upgrade that allows you to subsume two abilities but it must be from different sources. Anyways, everything just needs more tweaks as they are already on the right track.

[Damocles]

2 minutes ago, ReasonX said:

On Lv9999 missions, we need more damage, but we died before the mod heats up.

On eidolon hunt, the new mods never heats up.

On daily missions, we dont need more damage, and have no interest to invest the new mods.

ALL OF the new mods are lv.10 mods, which needs lots of endos to upgrade, and they dont deserve their price.

Killing trigger is silly, it force you to use the same weapon and keeps shooting, and it will be very boring in long term missions.

It runs to the opposite side of DE's goal: let every weapon useful, let the game interesting.

 

I see there are 50+ players who see the same way. For some reason none of the developers see this problem. The fallacy of beating a boss that drops the only weapon that can be used to kill the boss itself.

[1597]

8 минут назад, Danny99s сказал:

Is CO capped at 3 statuses?

No, this thing has never been in the game.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

Why would you expect condition overload to interact this way with the combo multiplier? The current math makes sense. You should not be getting a multiplier on top of CO with Heavy Attacks...

Because that's how Pressure Point and all other damage buffs except CO work? It makes logical sense too. Combo Counter is one multiplier, damage mods are another.

Heavy attack go like this currently: (1 + PPP) x Combo Counter + CO
All I'm asking for is CO to go in the logical place of (1 + PPP + CO) x Combo Counter.
 

[Ms_Salami]

Paid arcane slots per weapon, are you serious?

[(PSN)NightzeroAX]

I'm convinced DE hates shot guns. I come back to this game and see Boar Prime's status gutted. Then we get two Impact > Slash mods (Hemorrhage Internal Bleeding) and still no Shotgun variant. Now we have these Galvanized mods and instead of Shotgun getting equal treatment we get a projectile exilus mod.....

 

The Steel Essence change makes solo farming even more dreadful now. Before we were at the mercy of our toilet paper cat now the cat is useless outside of Taveuni.

[operative-verona]

spicy post, but reasonable. not worried but it feels like primary and secondary changes won't be enough.

[Kmykzy]

Pretty good, pretty good, was expecting heavier nerfs to melee but there still probably way stronger than anything guns can do. Heavy attack and builds (except for the glaives heavy nerfs) weren't touched which is a plus imo.

[ReasonX]

11分钟前 , (PSN)Alphonso-Alonso 说:

Dude this exactly, DE this is a great example of how conditional mods do not adequately replace or even complement mandatory mods. Geez, that’s a horrifying investment to blow a bunch of essence on...

just turn the trigger up side down, let kills DISABLE the additional effect for a short period of time.

this will simply make everything interesting.

[(PSN)Alphonso-Alonso]

2 minutes ago, ReasonX said:

On Lv9999 missions, we need more damage, but we died before the mod heats up.

On eidolon hunt, the new mods never heats up.

On daily missions, we dont need more damage, and have no interest to invest the new mods.

ALL OF the new mods are lv.10 mods, which needs lots of endos to upgrade, and they dont deserve their price.

Killing trigger is silly, it force you to use the same weapon and keeps shooting, and it will be very boring in long term missions.

It runs to the opposite side of DE's goal: let every weapon useful, let the game interesting.

 

I suggested Berserk fury be triggered by “On Kill” instead of “Melee Kill” that way you can fluidly move between each different weapon without having to tunnel-vision using only the one type (and thus dividing your Arsenal XD)

maybe the conditional mods can activated on any kill (melee, parazon, etc)???

 

still doesn’t do anything for eidolon hunters or during hectic missions like disruption where you have the scramble to find a specific damage sponge who can nullify all your advantages.