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Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide


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 If possible adding an aura type mod slot for primary and secondary's would be great imo one of the problems with guns in the game is they are usually expensive to invest in now im not saying expensive weapons cant exist persay it is a grindy game after all but a lot of melee weapons can be used right of the bat with like 1 or 2 forma heck even 0 forma and they will carry you through out the game but with gun your talking at least 3 forma just to get in your must have mods.

The new mods we are getting while cool and a nice buff they are also expensive and will probably make the already expensive weapon investment more expensive if your plan is to make guns more appealing to use how about at least not making them more grindy than they are right now.

To be fair you could just reduce the cost of the new mods a bit but i think the aura idea is more fun since it would allow to rework some mods to make then usable stuff like thunderbolt, combustion beam etc would make great mods for it, these are the types of mods that are fun but u dont use them cus u cant make space for them in builds 

Edited by Ifeanoiba
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You said won't nerf melee too much, but what you done, Shame.

And the most important off all is Primary and Secondary weapons are not really buff, because all the new mods or others are drop on Powerful enemy of steel path, if player have no strong weapon how to defeat it. OK, maybe we can fight them by warframe skill, like xaku, but if we done this, what we need weapon for? It's not "balance". Do you play WF deeply? All your live show are in the low level map, you just know what you know, but you have no idea what we know.

You want players try to use more weapon you design, but now you send more your design to storage, UNBELEIEABLE.

Edited by EricLee0127
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there's no kill reg counter for Primaries unlike melee combo counter and how are we supposed to maintain the headshot kills when a single wave rotation on any node can spawn enemies between 10-20 seconds. Your not making Gunning any easier just making it more tedious than it was before. Use your Focus Group and the "special server" for some responses first

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Am curious to see how this will all... "feel" in practice. Like I am most sad about the Glaive nerfs, but at the same time, I can't be too sad, because when I use Glaive Prime, it makes Steel Path feel like regular Starchart. I started to get a bit lazy and taking in subpar experimental Primary and Secondary weapons to level in SP, because ultimately I knew I could just rely on the Glaive. I hope it still feels good... because I think its a fun weapon, with cool animations and fun synergy with Secondaries... 

A part of me is also curious if we could have gotten these gun buffs without melee being touched to see how things would play out. Since on one hand, I do think some of the way melee took advantage of speed, crit and priming for CO could get ridiculous, it was also really really super fun. Like their are better meta melee options than the Gram, but swinging it around with reckless abandon at dumb speeds, just *felt* great. Clustering a group of enemies together with Larvae or Magnetise, firing the Epitaph into them, then hitting them with a melee utilising CO, popping huge numbers, feels amazing. 

Those feelings/sense of fun might still exist post update, so I am not overly pessimistic about it, and if this update also makes it so more primary and secondary weapons can capture such feelings, then I am excited and hopeful for that. 

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i hope the stats for new mods are not final... or get adjusted. right now, as seen on screenshot, there is no difference between primary and secondary mods, aside being applicable on said weapon type. but compare the existing ones, e.g. multishot mods. primary MS gives 90%, secondary MS gives 120%. secondaries losing this round. and the same goes for dmg and cc alike.

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Quote

Orvius

Direct Hit Damage from 390 to 215

Radial Damage from to 520 to 293

Hahaha don't bother nerfing Orvius, you killed it along with the Zenistar with the melee changes already.

Glad I don't use Fury/Primed on any builds, that's going to hurt some.

So more grinding for SE oh well, gives us something to do. :P

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Looking forward to the changes. Most of the changes to the existing mods aren't a thing I'm too concerned about (much of a muchness to me), but the Glaive changes sound good, and the weapon arcanes sound cool.

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
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some weapons DESPERATELY need Berserker, like the Fragor or Gram... even with Quickening + Arcane Strike the Fragor Prime still feels so heavy and cumbersome, in a fast paced game like this... will you make another dumb nightwave boss like the wolf in the future? 

all the ON HEADSHOT KILL stuff... have you tried playing your OWN game with a controller?

the kuva nukor nerf will not stop there... if they can change the catchmoon into trashmoon and then spit in player's face like the joke that P guy did...

or if they can neuter the Bramma, by punishing players that grinded so hard and invested FIVE FORMAS in it... they can do it to the nukor too

Devs "guise...guise... we're addressing the arsenal divide, but not really, we're just touching the popular weapons and mods that proved to be efficient at killing enemies"

Players : "what about forgotten weapons that have never been touched since 2013?"

Devs : "here's more arcanes and mods for you to grind more" 

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Greetings, Tenno After reading the dev workshop for Arsenal divide, i have come to a conclusion: DE can do better. The changes are not good and will NOT mend the rift between melee and guns, and combat will NOT be balanced.
TABLE OF CONTENTS 
  • Gun Buffs
  • Melee Nerfs
DISCLAIMER: I borrowed "some" element from the main post. This is only my opinion, given based on my knowledge and experience of the game, and my opinion and yours may differ. No one is forced to read this but if you do I will appreciate it a lot.
Now let's get to the meat of this post
I have to stress: NERFING IS NOT THE KEY. A BALANCE BETWEEN NERF AND BUFF IS.
I. Gun Buffs
Warframe is an MMO, horde shooter, looter shooter game. The thing that makes player happy is getting loot, getting rewards. And for that to happen, we have to kill. Either by abilities or weapons.
When choosing weapons, the Tenno have a lot to consider...
  • Which weapons are strong enough for me to fight at this level?
  • Which weapons are best against this faction?
  • Which weapons are the most efficient and easy to use?
  • Which weapons do I have the most fun with?
  • Which Mods make these weapons perform best?
  • Which weapon make big numbers on the screen so we would know that whatever we use is really efficient
  • Which weapon can help us breeze through this mission quickly to start farming again because the farm is bad due to nerf or the way it is.
The average player will ask themselves at least one of these questions (usually more) before making a selection. Not all weapons are built equal, but ideally there are several answers to each query, so that Tenno can make their own choices from a variety of options and keep things fresh.
Generally speaking, I feel that gun stats are NOT in a good place. Not only are the Mods that are lacking, the gunplay system and stats also pales in comparison to Melees. Melees have an extensive array of mods that tailor specifically to them such as Condition Overload, Steel mods (x2 crit on heavy attack), etc... in couple with the swordplay itself. Melee weapons are quick, they deal high damage, they can hit multiple enemies at once, they have combo counter and heavy attack to buff their damage.
Warframe has more than 400 weapons and that number is only going to grow in the future. Of course with such an extensive arsenal to pick your equipment from, no player is expected to switch out their equipment frequently to be able to use all 400 weapons. But, some players don't want to run with the same 3 weapons all the time, or only be able to switch between "some" that would perform good at the level they are playing at. We want variety AND efficiency.
To remedy this problem, the solution is obvious: Buff the weapons.
1. Damage / status / crit buff:
The buff level would depend on the already existing stats. Especially those that are at the "middle" level - they perform good at lower to middle level, but fall off VERY quickly at higher levels with bullet sponge enemies, even with the help of crit and status, only because some cannot hit multiple enemies and players would be quickly overwhelmed. This serves to increase the number of 'viable' weapons for veterans and players who engage in high level contents.
2. Gunplay system:
Make weapons switch faster and more fluid to promote the usage of all equipped weapons.
Changes to the gun damage system:
Like melee, gun should have some way to boost their damage innately instead of relying only on mods.
  • All guns now get bonus damage on headshot.
  • All guns now get +bonus to crit chance on headshot. (a flat +10-20% would do)
  • Enough damage dealt to an enemy will now make them stagger in place (headshot/bodyshot, make them stagger really long when shot in the groin if yall wanna make a meme or some).
  • All these changes serve to improve the tendency to kill enemies quicker. You wanna kill them you shoot them in the head. In theory, all guns will benefit from these changes, and make players more incentivized to score headshot to boost their damage output.
Next, we need to revamp how guns work to bring them on-par with the melee system. Combo counter is not a good idea simply because: rapid fire weapons will gain combo faster that slow firing weapons. Instead, we rely on the existing idea of MODS.
Changes to gun mods:
To make the gunplay feel more rewarding and 'fun', the mods should be taken into account
  • Galvanized Mods should replace Acolyte mods and how they are obtained, or buff their normal counterparts:
    • "The general approach to these Galvanized Mods is that the unconditional upgrade is not quite as good as the non-Galvanized original, but the On Kill conditional increases them well above and beyond what is available with ‘conventional’ Mods in your Arsenal."
    • I like the idea of galvanized mods to give guns more power when they are used, like how Condition overload or blood rush boost melee damage.
    • However, with the existence of these mods, the 'normal version' of these mods for guns may become obsolete, due to the fact that people will always come after what's best no matter the cost.
    • Locking them behind Steel Path, "hard content" as you would call it, would render the point of these mods moot. You need good weapons to farm Steel Path, but the guns without these mods are outshined by a small number of other weapon that can perform better. So you would still need to run the "META" weapons to be able to make your weapon useable. Thus it will not solve the meta problem.
    • So, by making them easier to obtain and completely replacing the normal counterparts, we wouldn't have to worry about mods being worse that another; Or buffing the normal counterparts so players would not rush to mindlessly farm Galvanized mods right away, and for player who doesnt have access to steel path, and still have the power level of Galvanized mods.
    • The drain should also be look at.
    • The + damage per status type should also be looked at. Even with the changes to Condition Overload, CO is still better than the damage output of these mods. The percentage should be +50% (no status type cap)
  • Some mods are obsolete. DELETE them:
    • There are currently more than 1000 mods in warframe. Some mods have literally no use. They should be removed to not dilute the drop table of mobs/missions.
    • Some of the mods in question maybe +Ammo mods, etc (a poll should be held to determine which mods/effect players find most "useless")
    • I understand that DE want to give new player choices to mod their weapons, but some mods are literally that useless. Why use +Ammo when we can just reload? etc...
  • Introduce new mods: : (numbers are placeholder only, and are at max fusion)
    • Shrapnels: AoE damage mods already exist in the game, like Combustion Beam, Acid Shells etc, but they are lackluster at best. In a horde game, getting many kills at once is the best. That's why AoE weapons are preferred over single target weapons. I propose to introduce some mods that would make single target weapons able to deal area damage, while maintaining balance. This idea comes in the form of "Shrapnel" mods: after killing an enemy, there is a chance that enemies in an area around killed enemies will be affected by status effect and percentage of the damage dealt. The status effect can stack. Killing a number of enemies in a short amount of time will increase the proc chance of this mod. The range of effect of these mods are increased compared to AoE weapons to compensate the fact that these mods will not proc all the time:
      • Arctic Shrapnel: apply cold damage/proc and deal 100% of the dealt damage and status effects (used to kill enemy) to enemies in a 5m radius
      • Searing Shrapnel: apply fire damage/proc and deal 100% of the dealt damage and status effects (used to kill enemy) to enemies in a 5m radius
      • Galvanic Shrapnel: apply electric damage/proc and deal 100% of the dealt damage and status effects (used to kill enemy) to enemies in a 5m radius
      • Venom Shrapnel: apply toxin damage/proc and deal 100% of the dealt damage and status effects (used to kill enemy) to enemies in a 5m radius
      • Lacerating Shrapnel: apply slash damage/proc and deal 100% of the dealt damage and status effects used to kill enemy) to enemies in a 5m radius
      • Colliding Shrapnel: apply impact damage/proc and deal 100% of the dealt damage and status effects (used to kill enemy) to enemies in a 5m radius
      • Perforating Shrapnel: apply electric damage/proc and deal 100% of the dealt damage and status effects (used to kill enemy) to enemies in a 5m radius
      • Singularity Shrapnel: Create a singularity at point of enemy killed, attracting enemies in a 5m radius and attract projectiles (like Mag's bubble), deal 100% of the dealt damage and status effects (used to kill enemy)
      • I made the decision to not include combinations of effects (like viral, blast etc) since the effect of the Shrapnel mods already include the spreading of dealt status effects to enemies in an area.
      • These mods will be "high level" mod that are hard to obtain like Galvanized mods since they can potentially be broken as hell.
    • Nano Enhance: serves like Condition overload but for guns. That's it. +40% Damage per unique Status Type affecting the target. x3 for weapons with more than 60% status or shotguns more than 30% status chance/bullet and <20% crit chance (modded) (no status type cap).
      • This mod serves to firstly increase the damage output of ALL weapons, and MAINLY to increase the damage output of pure status weapons.
      • The Galvanized mods already have this effect, but they cost more to use, are harder to find, so this would be a handy substitute.
      • This would make players actually want to use status weapons instead of using them just to spread procs. Thus improve variety
  • Existing mods:
    • Some mods need to be buffed, like Blunderbuss, etc
    • Already existing AoE mods:
      • Combustion Beam: deal 100% of the dealt damage and status effects (used to kill enemy) to enemies in a radius.
      • Acid Shells: It's okay, though the + max health % should be increased a little bit.
    • Drain should be looked at. Melees have Stances that boost the mods capacity while guns don't. Drain of gun mods should be looked at to compensate for this.
    • Some should be changed to exilus mods.
  • Maybe give us 1 or 2 more mod slots while you're at it.
And that wraps up my proposed changes to the gun modding and gunplay.
3. Primary and Secondary Weapon Arcanes
Arcane slot and Arcane:
  • In my opinion, arcane is a way of FURTHER increasing your damage output after all the mods and stuffs that you put on them. Unlike Galvanized mods, they should serve as the last upgrade to your arsenal, a thing for only the veterans and people who have played for a long time, so the way to obtain them as DE proposed is okay.
  • Still, it should not be locked behind a mere paywall that require MINDLESS FARMING to be able to obtain. I propose that the price should not be too high, and a "checklist" should be implemented to unlock it, stuffs that you would need to do and are able to complete them as you play and play, like kill X thousand enemies, perform X hundred headshots, ritual sacrifice of pets to the Orbiter's waste chute, etc... These objectives should not be easy to rush, but should not be ridiculously hard either. And it reward players who spend time with their weapons and also lock it behind a high level content.
The arcane themselves:
  • I like them. The drop rate and numbers should be looked at very carefully.
II. Melee nerfs
Enter melee weapons, and equally importantly, the nerfs that are coming to them. It is true that melees are overpowered af with the mods and how they deal damage (multi hit, crit chance scale with combo, ...) So i guess a little nerf is okay. However, what the nerfs are needs to be looked at
Attack speed:
Attack Speed increases for Melee are part of what makes it so dominant. This is especially true when the conditions to reach animation-breaking Attack Speed, and the result is animation noise with no distinction between hits, coupled with massive Damage output. 
This is true. But as I mentioned before, Warframe is a horde shooter, looter shooter. Efficiency should be prioritized over show. So the nerf should still be able to support the ability to increase Melee Attack Speed and Damage Output.
Berserker is changing from:
+30% Attack Speed (Max 75%) for 24s on Critical Hit To: Beserker Fury, cannot stack with Fury. On Melee Kill: +35% Attack Speed (Max 70%)  for 15s. Stacks up to 2x. 
This is important because: - It decouples it from Critical Chance. - Adds a more defined ramp up using ‘On Kill’ instead of On Crit, which means status melees should be able to shine even tho their crit chance is like 0% or something. - Renamed to Berserker Fury to communicate that it can no longer be equipped with Fury / Primed Fury. 
Blood Rush:
"Blood Rush’s maximum value is being lowered. This changes the achievability of consistent Red Crits from just one Mod (on most Melee weapons, some High-Critical exceptions), and now additional help will be needed via Mods, Arcanes, or Warframe abilities to achieve consistent Red Crits."
I agree. Though the nerf should be softer. Blood rush clearly benefits crit melees and hybrid crit/status melee, though it benefits pure crit melee much more since they can also use Condition Overload to boost their damage. So the % should be like +50-60%, in order to not force player to use 2 crit chance mods.
Condition Overload
"Condition Overload’s maximum value is being lowered. It’s been some time since we originally changed this Mod, and in this time we’ve decided we’re still not happy with the way this goes up against other Damage Mods (namely Primed Pressure Point). We’ve reduced this to 80% to make it almost as good as Primed Pressure Point, and 3 Status Types back to where it was originally. It remains true that even though the maximum potential damage is lower now, we think it is still an extremely powerful Mod in its latest iteration."
There should now be a more meaningful question: do you want front loaded damage on pure crit weapons and hybrid crit/status weapons or a build up but still deal low damage in the case of pure status melees?
With the help of status primers, condition overload boost the damage of melees to the highest tier. However, melees with high critical chance still outshine those with low crit, pure status chance because they simply cannot do as much damage as crit hits.
Condition Overload should be the mod to make pure status weapons viable at higher levels. Thus Condition Overload is changing from: +120% Melee Damage per Status Type affecting the target. To
+60% Melee Damage per Status Type affecting the target. x3 for weapons with <15% crit chance and >35% status chance (unmodded) (no status type cap)
Glaives Changes 
Glaives changes are reasonable.
Kuva Nukor
DE is touching 1 non-Melee item in the series of Nerfs. It’s the Kuva Nukor (surprise surprise). It’s a dominant Secondary with incredible power, which is warranted given its acquisition. It’ll keep all of its signature behaviour, but the general output is being notched down slightly with the following change:
  • Chains targets reduced to 3 from 4
With the proposed mod system, especially the Nano Enhance mod, the already monstrous Kuva Nukor will certainly be way way more monstrous than it already is. However, it will not be able to use the Shrapnel mod as it counts as an AoE, Beam weapon and it already has Combustion Beam. So the changes to target chains from 4 to 3 should be reasonable.
 
In closing…
I have to stress AGAIN: NERFING IS NOT THE KEY. A BALANCE BETWEEN NERF AND BUFF IS.
Thank you for coming to my DEV-Talk and spending your time reading this. I hope you like this and it would not be lost in new. Please, give me your honest opinion and please DE for the love of god i love this game but yall are making it more stale than Ethan Winter's blood. I hope you will considerate player feedback also.
 
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I would like to know hm steel essence the mods are, so I can farm it till the steel essence nerf comes 

 

also interesting, a lot of people here complaining about the melee nerf, exact these people (I know their gamertag ) sitting half of the day in ingame chat and complaining they are bored because melee ist op und it’s to easy ……. Very strange 

Edited by (XBOX)CFG SatanDevil
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Dear DE,

I remind you that you made all the exilus mods for primary and secondary weapons be stuff about aiming and ammo. There are reload speed mods that could be moved there.

I also remind you that primary and secondary weapons don't have the equivalent of auras/stances.

We could make much better primary and secondary builds with those options. This is how I would suggest making primary and secondary weapons more powerful.

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I don't know where to start...

1. On devstream you talked about buffs and nerfs... I see only nerfs... I hardly put the galvanized mods in the buff category, I would put them in the "make players spend money for forma" category. In fact with the high cost, players need to have all slots polarized in order to use them, and probably won't be even sufficent. I can't see in the future, but after the update I think that the only weapons that will be used will be the kuva ones for the capacity... What are you going to do then, nerf them to toy weapons, or strip them of extra capacity? At least have the new arcana set the base capacity to 40...

2. About weapons stats: Are you kidding? Weapon stats are ok? Why you buffed reaper prime, while boltor prime and latron prime can hardly be considered prime weapons? Weapon stats are completely unbalanced... I hope it wasn't that you didn't have time to make a real rebalance of primary and secondary weapons and came out with the galvanized idea...

3. 7 forma gifted... For players like me who have around 50 primary and secondary weapons completely tuned that need to be re-polarized this is an insult, plain and simple...

4. Glaives... It's time to put them where they belong again: throw them into oblivion... After glaive's update they started to be useful. Put volatile rebound, blood rush (now nerfed), weeping wounds, viral damage and throw the glaive when combo counter was high enough... Now? With damage halved you can use them only on lower levels, that is never...

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So i thought the idea was to be getting rid of mandatory mods.  

seems like its mandatory to have   Serration, A Riven, a maxed out Arcane 

 

And why on earth put them in Steel Path.  nobody plays it..  its not fun or challenging its just bullet sponge central..   

Just like rivens failed to make less meta weapons viable, Steel Path failed to make an endgame challenge..   abort this and restart it now before it becomes an even bigger disaster.

 

 

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> Melee mods getting 'nerfed'  

- Berserker nerf: NOBODY pairs Berserker with Fury outside of meme builds and for slow hammers, OR people who uses mouse scroll/script to whirl themself into ball of death. Nobody. So that means this nerf mostly affects the non-'cheating' part of the community, i.e. console players who attackspeed is hardcapped by their input speed. Putting 'on kill' and lowering the active time also doesn't really matter, since enemy spawn, no matter on which type of mission, will have 'ramp up' from fodder to elite units and lastly to eximis. Even if the attack speed buff ends, you will still retain the damage buff, so you can kill these enemies and regain the atkspd buff.  

- Blood Rush nerf: You guys already know the condition to get 100% red crits are quite hard to get, as evidenced in the post: Need an already inherently high crit% weapon, need to equip several mods, need to equip mods of same set to Deconstructor Prime. All which can be considering 'limiting our choice', or in easier term, 'risk and reward'. But! By nerfing this mod you guys ALSO nerfing the OTHER low-crit weapons that can only hold their ranks in 'usable' tier by saving grace of using this mod. Nerfing this would single-handedly break the supporting platform all these weapons are standing on, and decisively throw them off the tierlist altogether. The end result? Shrinking of weapon meta, and players focusing on several few weapons instead of branching out. No, they will still not shift to primary and secondaries, which will end up lowering the riven dispos of these meta weapons, but it's still better than those band-aid mods.  

- Condition Overload nerf: By far, this is the most needed nerf to bring down melee potential. 80% is still enough to cause massive damage, considering we can potentially stack up to 7 debuffs with use of all our arsenal into one enemy. I agree with the nerf, and the number is alright. BUT only 3 status types? 240% damage cap? At that point, people will just change to Primed PP/ Sacrificial Pressure + Sacrificial Steel and use heavy attack meta again, this will cause the same problem with Blood Rush nerf: shrinking the 'usable' tier weapons and concentrating players' uses to a select few meta weapons.  

- Kuva Nukor nerf? Don't care, already shifted to Vermisplicer Primary anyway, which most probably will become the new meta status applicator aside from the Sporelacer. The only redeeming feature about Kuva Nukor was the inherit Radiation which causes enemy to not focus 100% on you or the defense target, which can be easily emulated with both alternatives.  

 

Now the real problem was the Glaive nerf. Why do you need to softcap the damage by using 'people often mispress the button when they wanted to do quick attack' excuse? How they mess a player that wanted to quick melee NOT tap the button furiously and repeatedly? That excuse is a false excuse. Even if they have a heavy attack setup equipped (which made the argument makes even LESS sense since you'd want to spam heavy attacks instead of quick melees if you already made your setup specifically for that), there's no way a Warframe player don't spam attack button. And even it that's really the problem, why don't change the heavy attack trigger back to what it's before? Yanno, R3? All these excuses for directly HALFING the glaive's damage output, it's unacceptable.

 

Lastly, do a quick check: how many players actually using Mesa's passive, i.e didn't equip a melee to get the bonus damage? That alone would tell how reliable a melee compared to guns.

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12 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

While there's some truth in that, I'm going to guess in DE's view this

1.  is too labor intensive

2.  has already been done.

On that second point:  the last time ranged weapon stats were overhauled was early 2018.  Melee stats were supposed to be revised shortly thereafter with Melee 3.0 but this was delayed and delayed some more until late 2019.  While both are a long time ago now from our perspective, I'd bet to DE it feels like they just finally got that whole project off their plate.  ...and look where we're at.

And while they could get the weapon system into somewhat better shape by rebalancing weapon stats, I don't think this is really the root issue, or one of them.  Those would be things like status, damage types, armor, the construction of damage multipliers, the role of single target weapons, and a few more things I'm forgetting at the moment.    I mean, increase the Daikyu's damage 10x and give it 100% crit and x5 crit multiplier, and it's still going to be a misfit toy compared to melee or AoE weapons.

Of course, DE isn't addressing those primary issues with this workshop either. 

They aren't changing gun stats because guns are perfectly viable for everything outside of Steel Path Grineer. 

TBH the call for buffing primary and secondary weapons has always been ridiculous. The game is piss easy and the real offender has been, for a long time, melee. The nerfs to melee are a step in the right direction.

The extra mods/arcanes for primary/secondary weapons is a pretty major buff and outside of Steel Path there is really no need for the power creep. 

 

8 hours ago, (NSW)RATHURUE said:

- Kuva Nukor nerf? Don't care, already shifted to Vermisplicer Primary anyway, which most probably will become the new meta status applicator aside from the Sporelacer. The only redeeming feature about Kuva Nukor was the inherit Radiation which causes enemy to not focus 100% on you or the defense target, which can be easily emulated with both alternatives.  

I hope you understand that status applicator weapons, in general, are not going to be near as useful. They were already a stupid waste of time before but the changes to CO will pretty much kill the status applicator + CO thing people have been doing for awhile. Good riddance, I say. 

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vor 11 Minuten schrieb Jorak_Falconstar:

So i thought the idea was to be getting rid of mandatory mods.  

seems like its mandatory to have   Serration, A Riven, a maxed out Arcane 

 

And why on earth put them in Steel Path.  nobody plays it..  its not fun or challenging its just bullet sponge central..   

Just like rivens failed to make less meta weapons viable, Steel Path failed to make an endgame challenge..   abort this and restart it now before it becomes an even bigger disaster.

 

 

I am a nobody who plays Steel path. 
 

people who don’t play steel path don’t need the arcanes…. The normal star chart is easy enough. 
u need no riven, no meta weapons, no op melee for the normal star chart 

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13 minutes ago, Jorak_Falconstar said:

So i thought the idea was to be getting rid of mandatory mods.  

The idea of getting rid of mandatory mods is a really old thing, dude. DE have not been going this direction for what... 2 years? I believe talk of removing mandatory mods died off around the last major primary+secondary weapon buff a couple years back.

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Guns new Arcane and Galvanized mods trigger way too harshly in high level missions, it is difficult to make multiple kills to stack buffs within the duration of the buff.

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6 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I hope you understand that status applicator weapons, in general, are not going to be near as useful. They were already a stupid waste of time before but the changes to CO will pretty much kill the status applicator + CO thing people have been doing for awhile. Good riddance, I say. 

I do understand, but I used Kuva Nukor NOT for debuffing but mainly for CC-ing enemies. That's why my example was related to that usage, and not for the damage side.

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Just now, (NSW)RATHURUE said:

I do understand, but I used Kuva Nukor NOT for debuffing but mainly for CC-ing enemies. That's why my example was related to that usage, and not for the damage side.

Interesting.

Kuva Nukor is a major DPS weapon so I have no experience using it for cc...

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These changes should really be put on a public test server for people to get a first hands feel for it. And by that I mean having a PTS open for everyone for a week or more, not randomly pick a couple that can try it on one specific weekend. Then don't dismiss feedback and iterate (potentially with more PTS).

Excuse me for the caps, but that is by far the most important point in this post.

From what I can read in the OP, I'm not happy about the changes. Especially all the "on kill" triggers for effects. "on headshot kill" is a particularly bad one. The "while aiming" buffs have always been a pain.

The nerfs to Blood Rush and Condition Overload are far more than "minor", they are gutted by 33%. If this is not a lot, I don't know. EDIT: How did I miss the 3 status cap on CO. This is beyond a crazy huge nerf. Just the hard CO nerf cuts damage in a basic scenario in half (4 status effects). Combine that with the BR nerf and we're looking at about a 70% damage nerf in high end scenarios (a Jat Kusar with full BR, 5 status effects and only Organ Shatter will only do about 29% after the patch).

What I'm kind of missing is how these changes would make the Sporothrix viable in any content. We still have the problem that these single target non-crit weapons have no place in the game. All enemies where you'd want to use such weapons are more or less exactly made to counter them. Damage reduction that can only be "cheated" with crits, status immunity or very low caps on the amount of status stacks. I'm mostly talking Acolytes and Demolysts. Maybe even Juggernauts, also Eidolons.

Another important thing to me personally is how you think these changes will help me use guns in a SP solo survival. I don't see me doing 2 kills per second with these changes. Guns are still required to reload. Making guns reload while holstered the default no mods required(!) would go a long way.

Edited by 60framespersecond
Huge CO nerf
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Just now, Leqesai said:

Interesting.

Kuva Nukor is a major DPS weapon so I have no experience using it for cc...

Been using that since the first melee rebalance. Using arcane lockdown is fun and all, but that seems counter-intuitive to spam transference back and forth.

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