Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide

[Mixnek]

Will there be a Public Test Cluster for this update? If not, why?

 

[Xsoskeleton]

1 hour ago, Malakai111 said:

There is no such cap on Condition Overload, and there never was.  

  *wheeze*

On 2021-06-18 at 9:00 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Condition Overload

Condition Overload’s maximum value is being lowered. It’s been some time since we originally changed this Mod, and in this time we’ve decided we’re still not happy with the way this goes up against other Damage Mods (namely Primed Pressure Point). We’ve reduced this to 80% to make it almost as good as Primed Pressure Point, and 3 Status Types back to where it was originally. It remains true that even though the maximum potential damage is lower now, we think it is still an extremely powerful Mod in its latest iteration.

It's literally IN the thread itself. Current CO we have avoided the capping but, i guess DE forgot they didn't implement the cap and thinks they did.
And even if it isn't capped in the end, my point still stands; pure status build using the melee alone is becoming less viable.

[Almagnus1]

If you consider Mesa to be OP... then you really aren't all that good to begin with.  Starchart content is so easy you can roll your face across the keyboard and complete most any of it.  Sorties basically mean you mostly know what your doing, arbitrations the actual test.  Steel Path is the only thing that somewhat has difficulty in this game, but even then... once you know how to build a proper melee weapon, it's a cake walk.

And for that matter... I've seen just about everything called OP on this forum, including ARCHWINGS of all things.  Someone calling something "horribly OP" without backing it up is a sign that they really don't know what they are talking about... kinda like you.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

37 minutes ago, Khyzz said:

>>Have anyone adressed the fact that these "on kill" effects will make people tryhard and fight for kills to keep the buffs up?

Who cares as long as the enemies are dying. Point of co-op is to help each other complete the mission. It doesn't matter who gets most kills.

[Crossfire78]

3 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

I'm ok with this.

Having to run Steel Path in order to get an item you need to run steel path makes no sense what so ever.

Omg the ignorance in that sentence...

You already can run Steel Path.

Its difficulty will not ramp up with the update, apart that you will have to hit the enemy 2 more times...

The mods are NOT necessary to play SP.

They will help you if yo go 3+ hours in a SP endurance run... thats it!

[ShogunGunshow]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Who cares as long as the enemies are dying. Point of co-op is to help each other complete the mission. It doesn't matter who gets most kills.

It matters if you stop having fun because your ability to do damage keeps falling off. Not everyone just plays to see the mission complete screen at the end - some people want to enjoy the gameplay.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

3 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

It matters if you stop having fun because your ability to do damage keeps falling off. Not everyone just plays to see the mission complete screen at the end - some people want to enjoy the gameplay.

That's why a solo option exists. ;)

[Mi-Marido]

32 minutes ago, Xsoskeleton said:

  *wheeze*

It's literally IN the thread itself. Current CO we have avoided the capping but, i guess DE forgot they didn't implement the cap and thinks they did.
And even if it isn't capped in the end, my point still stands; pure status build using the melee alone is becoming less viable.

You're still not understanding what Rebecca is saying.  She's making a comparison of Condition Overload with 3 status effects to Primed Pressure Point.  Again, there is no mention of a cap anywhere.

 

I'm not arguing your last point about pure status builds.

[(PSN)Alphonso-Alonso]

1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

If you consider Mesa to be OP... then you really aren't all that good to begin with.  Starchart content is so easy you can roll your face across the keyboard and complete most any of it.  Sorties basically mean you mostly know what your doing, arbitrations the actual test.  Steel Path is the only thing that somewhat has difficulty in this game, but even then... once you know how to build a proper melee weapon, it's a cake walk.

And for that matter... I've seen just about everything called OP on this forum, including ARCHWINGS of all things.  Someone calling something "horribly OP" without backing it up is a sign that they really don't know what they are talking about... kinda like you.

It’s Warframe. The whole game is a cakewalk.

 

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

That's why a solo option exists. ;)

Gee it’s almost like changing the entire game to accommodate the complaints of a single group of people is foolish- OH WAIT- Quiette shy’s video is why we are all here to begin with XD. 
 

it’s too late to tell people to play solo. This is the update we are getting and it is going to be painful for all of us. Because that’s fair?

[Patrykuzz]

Good thing i play Steel Path with Xaku, none of those changes affect me at all :P
But still i  do not like the meele changes. Many weaker weapons will be  even less usefull now.
Meta will shift to more specific warframes and meele weapons.
Range weapons mods should be on headshot or on hit not on kill same goes with berserker fury. Leave it at it is but on crit not on kill. 99% of the player base is telling you that on kill is a bad idea.
You are killing weaker meele weapons, can't you see it?
Or maybe you  know what you are doing, now more ppl will buy more rivens to compensate, which means more plat spend, which means more bought?

[Almagnus1]

54 minutes ago, (PSN)Alphonso-Alonso said:

It’s Warframe. The whole game is a cakewalk.

And the fact that you're so fast to talk down to others indicates the same also.  Hi Pot, you're looking rather black too!

Mesa will curbstomp most content up to the Steel Path where she suffers from the same problems that primaries and secondary weapons suffer... as do the rest of the exalted weapon builds for that matter.  The nerfs to the melee mods are completely unnecessary and actively damaging to the melee weapons as all it's doing is flipping the issue from melees being king, to primaries and secondaries being king.  Had the melee nerfs been delayed like 2-3 months down the road after we have the data to show that primaries and secondaries are still lagging behind the melees, then I'd agree they are necessary.

While Mesa has a great kit... this entire update is centered around what is necessary to make Steel Path work for something other than a melee, and the problem we have is that too many see Mesa outside of the Steel Path, and automatically assume she's going to be as OP on the Steel Path when the reality is that isn't the case.  In another thread, someone basically admitted they needed the Xorius to make Mesa work on Steel Path... that also lines up with my experiences with her there as even a Roar Mesa build just doesn't cut it because the damage doesn't scale like a melee can... which I don't really like as there are certain warframes that are actively bad to bring into Steel Path (not to mention currently anything that isn't a melee weapon).

But yes... keep assuming that it's all based on assumed fragility and not experience after seeing what DE does when frames start getting decried as OP when they really aren't (remember Ember?).  Maybe the bigger issue here is that we shouldn't have top tier builds in lowby zones?

[Sheppard_of_Fire]

making this a double grind now too get all this new stuff is a bit overkill if you ask me but if this is going to be the case lets address the Vitus drop rate please ...3% isn't going too cut it so time too buff that so that grind gives less of a bad taste as it does now .......Vitus gets us a few good mods and another way too buy kuva and now you dump these new mods in the same pool ....lets make the headache a bit less please as we can only take so many pills per day

[Fl_3]

1 hour ago, Crossfire78 said:

You already can run Steel Path.

Yes I can, but what about newer players? They run Arbitrations before they reach Steel Path.

What's so bad about new players having a chance to farm some mods that will help them in Steel Path before they get there?

All it's going to take me (and anyone else) to get hold of them is a little time, and lets face it, if we had something better to do we'd be doing that and not playing video games.

[RivaAurelius]

2 hours ago, Khyzz said:

I will not read 62 pages of feedback, but...

>>Have anyone adressed the fact that these "on kill" effects will make people tryhard and fight for kills to keep the buffs up?

That´s a issue Harrow and Nidus suffer on daily basis, so this will make more people just switch to solo mode making the game feel empty to those trying to run pubs.

How did I not realize this? How have the devs not realized this? I'm normally a solo player already but this will not incentivize teamwork at all. 

[ShogunGunshow]

I mean, apart from Merciless, the other buffs have a large enough duration that 'fighting for kills' shouldn't matter too much. Definitely not for the multishots that have a 20s duration, anyway.

[Crossfire78]

1 hour ago, Fl_3 said:

Yes I can, but what about newer players?

What about them?

How did you do it without the g-mods?

that argument is invalid...

1 hour ago, Fl_3 said:

What's so bad about new players having a chance to farm some mods that will help them in Steel Path before they get there?

Everything but just stay with the exonomics.... how many endo does a new player who cleared the star chart usually have?

Enough to max all g-mods when there are lots of other more useful and necessary mods?

i pretty much doubt that.

1 hour ago, Fl_3 said:

All it's going to take me (and anyone else) to get hold of them is a little time

Time i'd rather spent on a node of my choosing with a guaranteed drop chance of SE then "somewhere" in "some"" mission type i most likely don't like spending hours with nothing to show...

[Old_Fogie]

7 hours ago, ZenHare said:

Mixed on the new mods as well.

Multishot: Definitely worth it to replace Split Chamber and the other mods like it. Get those three.

Status Chance: It looks like they thought, "Hey, you know how Condition Overload (the main culprit) and Blood Rush (much lesser culprit) broke melee? Let's do the same for ranged attacks." Sometimes I wish they would just bite the bullet and kneecap Condition Overload and then re-balance the high end game. Saryn and other frames like her with Kuva Nukors are going to be everywhere in SP now.

Headshot: In SP Survival who has time to make headshots. For non-swarm missions, it help solo players with sniper rifles that don't have a way to bypass the large armor and health values. The 12 second timer sucks for a solo player though All in all it is going to be much easier with a beam weapon. I have a feeling as other people have pointed out is that the Kuva Nuko is going to be insane. 

Mods for shotguns in general: Do people still use shotguns in SP or in Warframe?

 

 

Yup. I use the Cedo. Build for status to use on SP mobs, proc and then go melee ( I don't have the nukor, so this method is ironic.). On anything below SP level, the Cedo levels with minimal effort, and has good mid-range sniping for those satisfying head shots. Additionally, physics are amazing with the Cedo, as I've banked the glaives off solids for ricochets to hit mobs in another area.

To whomever designed the Cedo, I owe you a steak dinner and a beer. I enjoy using shotties, and this is definitely a top tier room sweeper. My thanks.

[PollexMessier]

If you're moving these mods to arbitrations can we see some arbitration Qol changes too please?

Currently, if you clear an arbitration mission, it's gone. It doesn't stay there, you can't do it again. This is severely problematic because if your squad decides they want to leave early, you effectively lose that arbitration (Even if you can continue on your own, because the reduced enemy spawn rate will kill vitus essence drops), and you can't do an arbitration again until it refreshes, as a result of something completely outside of your control. This should not happen. You should be able to do the same arbitration multiple times.

One arbitration of a random mission type at a time is really restrictive. I get that you guys want players to play mission types they typically avoid, but in reality this just makes people want to avoid arbitrations all together until a mission type they want shows up. 3 random arbitrations should be available at a time so players have some choice in what they play. This can technically solve the previous point cus with 3 missions you can easily clear the refresh timer. But your squad extracting early will still result in you losing a mission you want if that issue isn't addressed too.

I'd be happy with ether change individually (the latter more than the former). But both together solves nearly every major issue I have with them.

[chitokana]

with all these new mods that give an effect on kill, can we get a ui change to display stats while abilities are active? maybe a toggle or something? ive gotten frustrated with the conditional mods that are already here and it would just be really nice for a calculator to not be necessary when figuring out how much damage my weapon will do after i kill X number of things. and if this is already a thing can someone tell me how to see it? lol

[Hawk1911]

4 hours ago, Sheppard_of_Fire said:

making this a double grind now too get all this new stuff is a bit overkill if you ask me but if this is going to be the case lets address the Vitus drop rate please ...3% isn't going too cut it so time too buff that so that grind gives less of a bad taste as it does now .......Vitus gets us a few good mods and another way too buy kuva and now you dump these new mods in the same pool ....lets make the headache a bit less please as we can only take so many pills per day

Hey, gotta sell those chance boosters right?

[ZenHare]

1 hour ago, Old_Fogie said:

To whomever designed the Cedo, I owe you a steak dinner and a beer. I enjoy using shotties, and this is definitely a top tier room sweeper. My thanks.

 

Oh yeah I almost forgot about that disgustingly overpowered shotgun.

[Old_Fogie]

1 hour ago, ZenHare said:

Oh yeah I almost forgot about that disgustingly overpowered shotgun.

I'll agree to that somewhat. Especially on lower end content. Anything below lvl 60-80 range, and the Cedo build I use will vaporize a mob with multiple status's.

But, if we're comparing perspectives on SP, then it really is no different from the Nukor, Bramma, or any other AOE proc wep used there. Additionally, I had to use 6 forma to get it to the point of being effective on SP. Pretty much comparable to the Kuva weps, yes?

Point being, players are going to use what ever wep is necessary for them in order to be effective on SP. Since I don't have the Big Boy toys, I have to make due with my disgustingly overpowered shotgun.... That is, until DE reads this and decides to nerf it as well 😁

 

[ZenHare]

11 minutes ago, Old_Fogie said:

I'll agree to that somewhat. Especially on lower end content. Anything below lvl 60-80 range, and the Cedo build I use will vaporize a mob with multiple status's.

But, if we're comparing perspectives on SP, then it really is no different from the Nukor, Bramma, or any other AOE proc wep used there. Additionally, I had to use 6 forma to get it to the point of being effective on SP. Pretty much comparable to the Kuva weps, yes?

Point being, players are going to use what ever wep is necessary for them in order to be effective on SP. Since I don't have the Big Boy toys, I have to make due with my disgustingly overpowered shotgun.... That is, until DE reads this and decides to nerf it as well 😁

 

I should have said "disgustingly overpowered for a shotgun." ;) It would be kind of nice if the others aimed themselves,

[(XBOX)Rhythm Grey]

17 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

That's kind of the point. It's reliable on live, where it's on-crit-hit and stacks last longer. But this change to on-kill, with only 10s stack time is going to make it unreliable and unpleasant for those weapons that need the extra kick in responsiveness.

ah, i just now noticed the slight change to the condition to trigger berserker.  it works just fine on critical hits rn. it shouldnt be changed to "on kill"  i see the point of your original post now.

[ZenHare]

Yeah the on kill is very odd. If the math for mods work like CO and you will see a difference of say a Kuva Hind doing 5k DPS without the buff and 50k DPS with the buff and you need the 50k DPS to kill stuff, then I will just stick with melee where I don't have to worry about keeping the timer up.