Why people dont want melee to be nerfed?

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

11 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

I suppose if killing enemies while under the effect of Dragon Keys is impressing you enough to make a forum post about it, I might as well show you this video:

The only difference is that I'm not invincible, that I'm killing faster, and that the weapon I used will receive massive buffs. I guess by your logic guns will be quadruple OP then?

Dude you’re using Shooting Gallery, you might as well be invincible.

Also using two self buffs (of which Toxic Lash is extremely strong) and an enemy debuff.

No S#&$ that a sniper with effectively no downtime while sitting in a chokepoint does okay

[Famecans]

true balance system without nerf anyone weapon.

the problem is on enemy.

[IIDMOII]

Remember, it isn't the players who made primaries underpowered, DE did. When our primary weapons haven't been able to compete for like a decade, wtf did anyone expect? 

The reason some people might be apprehensive about drastic changes is because DE made the game this way and the current meta is our reaction to those design choices.

The problem is, the way the game is designed, we all have to invest heavily in our builds. The prospect of wide sweeping changes, regardless of their necessity, will result in lost progression, time and money.

This has always been a DE problem. We are just shuffling around our builds reacting to their patches. Of course anyone with half a brain is going to gravitate to the most efficient weapons.

Dont blame the players, blame DE for allowing it to be this way on live servers long enough for it to become the norm. Its their willingness to release untested systems on live servers and then leaving it to rot for years at a time BEFORE deciding to make changes that irks most people. Not so much the lost power. 

[AlexMercer]

17 hours ago, Silvertap said:

I really don't get it...

Melee is so overpowered, it actually kills the game... Look at this

 

 

 

 

17 hours ago, Loza03 said:

People refuse to acknowledge that melee's current and immediate future state precludes much of the other stuff they want, such as interesting content, more variety in gameplay, Co-Op, Raids, decent enemy AI, less RNG and fewer progression gates.

I don’t like nerfs at all because i play and like this game for the power fantasy and i don’t care about the opinions from a youtuber or any other or that melee is overpowerd and also you can make interresting content that has nothing to do with melee like eidolons and orphix venom i find these content interresting and it has  nothing to do with how melee is powerful i mostly like all the content they have put out so far and if you don’t then that is your opinion don’t go saying this or that is killing this game without any proof or stats to go with it a video from a content creator is not any proof this post is only so far based on your opinion.

[vegetosayajin]

If you watched this video op you will know that even potato didn't want melee to be nerfed.
He put out this video just to say that it will still be the N1 option (we already knew that).
Before any current information was out (even if there will be just mods or gun rework) I was hoping that the gun buffs will be sufficient so that the melee nerfs don't feel just annoying.
Well the information is out and it will be just that - annoying, nothing will change except a few people running arbitrations/SP some more and buying a lot of forma.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

If cheesing it is more efficient than not, then the point is ultimately moot, because as mentioned, a not insubstantial number of people will choose efficient over fun.

Game is not perfect but you can see there is a way to make enemies harder to beat without increasing their HP/armor bar or some stupid timer (e.g. Orb mother).

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

12 hours ago, quxier said:

 

Your experience is one data point, mine is another multiple youtubers and forumites and DE themselves indicates that there are more data points otherwise.

If they find using more keys faster then I don't know what to say. That's weird for me. However I'm not going to go on and prove that. So I let it go.

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

It is worth noting that's a better ability, not AI, which is a subtle but important difference.

Well, I guess you can say this. For me AI includes what they are doing & using, hence his ability is "AI".

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

It's a chicken or the egg situation. DE was known for having a pretty fair grinding policy and making all the player's progress count back in the old days. But as players started getting more and more hundreds of thousands of nanospores and credits due to increased power and grinding technique, DE also started increasing grind to compensate.

The two are therefore intertwined. Reworking player's ability to auto-grind would in turn give DE more room to not need 1% drops to make items valuable.

When it was fair?

I can see most of old frames pre Octavia were fair to get (beat a boss few times to get all parts). Old Oxium farm wasn't bad (different map).

On other hand there were some stuffs that's hard to get (e.g. Incubator for your dogs - Nanospores were few planets ahead). Solo void relics are joke.

I can see it as mixed bag of "good" & "bad" grinds.

 

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Silvertap said:

I really don't get it...

Melee is so overpowered, it actually kills the game... Look at this

Just to make a note. Last I checked the extinguished dragon key only effects base damage and not the total damage of a modded weapon. So it is hard to use those 75% to compare the damage to how it will be after the melee nerfs, which according to math heads here on the forums equals a total damage loss of 68% or whatever it was. Which also includes drops in crit chance etc. that just cannot be shown in the video.

I mean he could have simulated it properly in a very very easy way by just equipping a R3 CO and R6 or 7 BR to get the correct, or near correct post nerf values.

[Loza03]

14 minutes ago, quxier said:

Game is not perfect but you can see there is a way to make enemies harder to beat without increasing their HP/armor bar or some stupid timer (e.g. Orb mother).

The issue is that the more that there's a power imbalance between different aspects of combat (for example, between melee and guns), the fewer avenues there are.

Consider how DOOM Eternal wouldn't really work as an endlessly-increasing power scale like Warframe. Weak points (or, how I think they'd best work for Warframe, support enemies) become obsolete when wide-spread weapons can blow the whole target away, for example.

Warframe's mod system - specifically critical hits - makes it so the higher the base stats of a weapon, the bigger the difference between small changes.

20 minutes ago, quxier said:

Well, I guess you can say this. For me AI includes what they are doing & using, hence his ability is "AI".

They do both fall under the broader scope of 'enemy design'.

IMO, the specificity of what aspect of that design is important. What the enemy has and what they do are related, but aren't the same thing.

27 minutes ago, quxier said:

When it was fair?

I can see most of old frames pre Octavia were fair to get (beat a boss few times to get all parts). Old Oxium farm wasn't bad (different map).

On other hand there were some stuffs that's hard to get (e.g. Incubator for your dogs - Nanospores were few planets ahead). Solo void relics are joke.

I can see it as mixed bag of "good" & "bad" grinds.

I joined I think at the tail end of this part of Warframe's history, but I distinctly recall how, at the time, all the praise was layered on the fair grinding philosophy of DE.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom:

Dude you’re using Shooting Gallery, you might as well be invincible.

Also using two self buffs (of which Toxic Lash is extremely strong) and an enemy debuff.

No S#&$ that a sniper with effectively no downtime while sitting in a chokepoint does okay

that's why i don't believe in these youtube videos. they have nothing to do with reality and only show one side of the coin. but they are popular for trolling ... no wonder.

I also know many tactics for SP. even one with an auto-clicker macro. but this is no longer playing. warframe is more likely to fly off the hard drive than I would play like that.

[Redfeather75]

Maybe for some people seeing the biggest number possible is more important than hitting one button all game.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

7 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Firstly the changes aren't going to do much, if you understood the mechanics you'd realise this. Secondly if you can't think of any other ways of doing SP effectively then you might want to improve your game knowledge.

Then could you suggest what you would do instead of using melee? Op's not doing anything to help anyone, and Melee was the only real way I could play it. Are guns even really good? I'm on console, we don't have those changes yet. I've been playing since 2018, I already know what I need to know, and you dont need to talk down to me. Just enlighten me.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

7 hours ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

i mean...i can melt enemies in SP even without the galvanized mod. 

why should galvanized mods not be good enough to make ttk even faster? lol

We dont have those changes yet, so idk what you're trying to say. All I said was these changes LOOK like they're gonna be bad. Idk if they actually are, all ik is that guns are still gonna be under used.

[Silvertap]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Just to make a note. Last I checked the extinguished dragon key only effects base damage and not the total damage of a modded weapon. So it is hard to use those 75% to compare the damage to how it will be after the melee nerfs, which according to math heads here on the forums equals a total damage loss of 68% or whatever it was. Which also includes drops in crit chance etc. that just cannot be shown in the video.

I mean he could have simulated it properly in a very very easy way by just equipping a R3 CO and R6 or 7 BR to get the correct, or near correct post nerf values.

That is not true, since he also used underleveled mods to get the same affect of the upcomming Condidtion Overload, Blood Rush and Berserker. He did what u sugested. And also used a key.

[Silvertap]

1 hour ago, vegetosayajin said:

If you watched this video op you will know that even potato didn't want melee to be nerfed.
He put out this video just to say that it will still be the N1 option (we already knew that).
Before any current information was out (even if there will be just mods or gun rework) I was hoping that the gun buffs will be sufficient so that the melee nerfs don't feel just annoying.
Well the information is out and it will be just that - annoying, nothing will change except a few people running arbitrations/SP some more and buying a lot of forma.

 

2 hours ago, AlexMercer said:

 

I don’t like nerfs at all because i play and like this game for the power fantasy and i don’t care about the opinions from a youtuber or any other or that melee is overpowerd and also you can make interresting content that has nothing to do with melee like eidolons and orphix venom i find these content interresting and it has  nothing to do with how melee is powerful i mostly like all the content they have put out so far and if you don’t then that is your opinion don’t go saying this or that is killing this game without any proof or stats to go with it a video from a content creator is not any proof this post is only so far based on your opinion.

I'm not saying that he said to nerf melee, he clearly stated his position in the vid. But it is good that you brought that up, everyone has their own opnion, as such i have mine, when i watched his vid, for me, it was just more foment to what i already though about the game, it is just that, it is clear proof that melees are overkil. And i think, that this distroys the possibility for game content, or at least makes it harder to be made. (MY PERSONAL OPNION, NOT THE TRUTH ABOUT THE WORLD)  

But if you guys want more solid arguments just read the thread, Mr. @Loza03 has done good arguments with fact and opnions about this opnion.

[quxier]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

The issue is that the more that there's a power imbalance between different aspects of combat (for example, between melee and guns), the fewer avenues there are.

Avenues for damage but there are still other methods.

[Silvertap]

20 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Why do people need videos to tell them how to think? 

Why do people need rules in a video game that doesn't affect real life? We're not talking about nerfing rolling stops because they're potentially dangerous. 

If I wanted to, because of how the game is designed.....I could take those 5 to 15 extra duplicate mods I have and rank them up only to Rank 2 and play the game just fine with less damage....but I should also have the choice to switch those rank 2 mods out for rank 10 whenever I feel like it....because they were put in the game and sometimes I may want to do a 2 hour mission instead of a 2 min capture.

 

19 hours ago, Leqesai said:

I hate to be 'that guy' but most people need videos because most people are relatively incapable of critical thinking and analysis. School does not train kids to think critically.

Since both of you gave #$&(% answers, let me be a #$&(% with you too. In the vid tactical potato means to say that melee will still be powerfull after the update, but his general opnion is diferent then mine, he doesn't want nerfs. Now u say that i need i a vid to think for me, and the other dude stated that people needs vids as inference of incopetence os lack of critical thought, but can you guys actually watch a vid and understand it? It doesn't seen so.

Really, if you don't want to debate it is ok, but don't a be a #$&(%.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Silvertap said:

That is not true, since he also used underleveled mods to get the same affect of the upcomming Condidtion Overload, Blood Rush and Berserker. He did what u sugested. And also used a key.

I admit I skimmed through it since it isnt too exciting to watch someone facerolling WF content, so missed the part where he showed the mods. It doesnt make the video less stupid though, imo it makes the video completely pointless when using CO+BR deleveled and slapping the key ontop of it. The scope of the actual nerf is what is interesting, not things ontop of it that are unrelated.

Not that anyone in their right mind assumes that melee wont be fine or more than fine after the nerf to begin with.

edit: I guess my main point was that the video is silly, stupid, pointless and un-needed.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

31 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Not that anyone in their right mind assumes that melee wont be fine or more than fine after the nerf to begin with.

There are a whole lot of people that aren't in their right mind then. People proclaiming that melee is ruined or nerfed into the ground is what started this conversation about the uproar. People think their investment into melee is being made void because they have that underlying belief that melee isn't worth using anymore. I agree that they're insane for thinking that, but it's sadly less of a minority view than we'd like to think.

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

There are a whole lot of people that aren't in their right mind then. People proclaiming that melee is ruined or nerfed into the ground is what started this conversation about the uproar. People think their investment into melee is being made void because they have that underlying belief that melee isn't worth using anymore. I agree that they're insane for thinking that, but it's sadly less of a minority view than we'd like to think.

So very true.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb (XBOX)Regxxh:

There are a whole lot of people that aren't in their right mind then. People proclaiming that melee is ruined or nerfed into the ground is what started this conversation about the uproar. People think their investment into melee is being made void because they have that underlying belief that melee isn't worth using anymore. I agree that they're insane for thinking that, but it's sadly less of a minority view than we'd like to think.

It is insane when someone sells his opinion as the truth of the last instance. There are so many lies in your little post that I don't even want to address them.
.... and since you seem to be able to see into the future like a clairvoyant, can you provide the facts?

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

4 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said:

There are so many lies in your little post that I don't even want to address them.

I have a request:

 

5 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said:

can you provide the facts?

 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb (XBOX)Regxxh:

I have a request:

then FINALLY start with it.

[Jarriaga]

53 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

There are a whole lot of people that aren't in their right mind then. People proclaiming that melee is ruined or nerfed into the ground is what started this conversation about the uproar. People think their investment into melee is being made void because they have that underlying belief that melee isn't worth using anymore. I agree that they're insane for thinking that, but it's sadly less of a minority view than we'd like to think.

Agreed. That initial thread with the proposed changes is full of people angry at the melee nerfs and calling it unacceptable and that melee is dead.

Reality is that we are in fact getting a 45%-50% nerf to our melee DPS, and this is still more than enough to obliterate TSP unless you are a hardcore farmer that stays for longer than 2 hours in which case I don't think you are even a consideration on DE's mind. This is why I've been fine with the nerf overall despite removing Berserker from all my builds already.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

10 hours ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

Then could you suggest what you would do instead of using melee? Op's not doing anything to help anyone, and Melee was the only real way I could play it. Are guns even really good? I'm on console, we don't have those changes yet. I've been playing since 2018, I already know what I need to know, and you dont need to talk down to me. Just enlighten me.

If you already know what you need to know then you shouldn't need my help.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

2 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

If you already know what you need to know then you shouldn't need my help.

You really dont need to be a jerk about it, you really don't. You don't have to tell people they are playing the wrong way, or the way you're demeaning me. You're doing it because you WANT to be toxic in any conversation you're in, and I'm done with you. You have no right acting like you're better than others just because you can no life the game, or that you know everything about everything about the game. All I did was give me two cents on it, and you slam me because you're getting off to the bullying. You didn't bother trying to talk, all that was on your mind was being a jerk.