There's not going to be Hema and Hirudo prime "because they're infested".

[xcrimsonlegendx]

I know everyone will say "duh of course they wouldn't prime infested guns!" but I don't really get how that makes any sort of sense given how things change in Warframe.

They admit on the panel for the first time that Hema and Hirudo are indeed his signature weapons directly from the weapon lead designer, this has been a point that has been debated for years among the community. Then they go on to say that they're not going to prime them simply because they're infested weapons while simultaneously showing off an infested warframe... that they are in the process of making the prime for...

I don't think that excuse can fly when they're officially Nidus' signature weapons, clearly they could be primed. They've already gone as far as to stretch the lore to accommodate Nidus himself but can't extend it a little further to cover his signature gear? As a Nidus main I'm more than a little disappointed that his signature set will never, ever be primed. (guess there's always infested lichces)  Instead we're going to get some random mis-matched old Tenno weapons that don't really belong with Nidus prime. By this logic we should have never gotten Helios prime, a corpus themed sentinel who managed to get a prime variant. I suppose that when Revenant prime comes out his signatures will be excluded as well, while still priming the sentient themed frame they belong to that stretches the bounds of what should and could be primed. I suppose they should stop making signature weapons for faction themed frames if they're just going to abandon them a few years later when the primes roll around.

EDIT: A lot of folks seem to be bringing up points that are unsubstantiated theories as evidence as to why Hema and Hirdo can't be primed due to lore but there is no solid evidence proving whether or not the Orokin made Hema and Hirudo or not. They made Nidus, its a natural assumption to believe that they would have created these weapons alongside their infested warframe. If Nidus' lore comes to tell us that he mutated from another frame in the future at some point it doesn't change the fact that the Orokin would have then primed him afterwards and therefor could have also primed his already established weaponry.

[Prexades]

Aside from the lich gear, Corpus and Grineer already have upgraded variants with the Vandal and Wraith versions. I wouldn't mind some special type of infested gear.

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

Smh. I was hoping to see elegant Orokin Bioengineered Weapons, like how the Unum is a bioengineered living tower with, someones personality/soul downloaded into it? All white ceramic, chitinious? and gold bling bling? 

I could imagine the Orokin using that as a punishment lol. Just, download a dudes soul into a gun, then use the gun to kill the guys family or something, something stupid and extreme but Orokin would be like "lol"

[xcrimsonlegendx]

7 minutes ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

Infested liches incoming? 🥳

Yep, Steve confirmed it back when Kuva liches came out.

[Atsia]

33 minutes ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

They've already gone as far as to stretch the lore to accomodate Nidus himself but can't extend it out to cover his signature gear?

Except nothing in the lore contradicts a prime for Nidus, while established convention for Priming does for the weapons.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

10 minutes ago, Atsia said:

Except nothing in the lore contradicts a prime for Nidus, while established convention for Priming does for the weapons.

Established convention doesn't mean anything when they can prime a Corpus sentinel without issue, proving that exceptions can happen.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

1 hour ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

Established convention doesn't mean anything when they can prime a Corpus sentinel without issue, proving that exceptions can happen.

playing devil's advocate for a minute here:

the Corpus took a lot of the Orokin's technology for themselves: we know from Lore entries that MOAs existed during the Empire serving alongside Dax, and the Fusion MOA is basically an exact copy of the Corrupted MOAs found in the Void Towers. there's no reason the same thing couldn't have happened with helios: originally made by the Orokin, reverse-engineered by the Corpus. 

[Atsia]

1 hour ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

Established convention doesn't mean anything when they can prime a Corpus sentinel without issue, proving that exceptions can happen.

Sentinels are actually Orokin/Tenno tech as well. Helios isn't Corpus in origin, so he actually fits.

[Colyeses]

1 hour ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

They admit on the panel that Hema and Hirudo are his signature weapons from the weapon lead designer, a point that has been debated for years among the community. Then they go on to say that they're not going to prime them simply because they're infested weapons while simultaneously showing off an infested warframe... that they are in the process of making the prime for...

The reason that infested weapons don't get primed is because Prime variants are supposed to be relics from the height of the Orokin empire. They are master-crafted versions of ordinary Orokin weapons, but as such, only Orokin weapons should get primed.

Nidus is an 'infested frame', yes, but not in the same way that the Hema and Hirudo are 'infested weapons'. For Nidus, it refers to the theme. For the Hema and Hirudo, it refers to the origin. The Hema and Hirudo were made by the infestation, while Nidus was designed by the Orokin to harness the infestation. Thus Nidus is an Orokin product and eligible for Priming, while the Hema and Hirudo were not.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

27 minutes ago, Atsia said:

Sentinels are actually Orokin/Tenno tech as well. Helios isn't Corpus in origin, so he actually fits.

It quite literally is designed to match the Arca set of weapons/armor with the exact orange/blue/black coloration theme and boxy corpus design. DE changes the lore as much as they want to suit their needs, trying to argue lore reasons for their design choices doesn't work, they literally retcon and contradict themselves at every turn. By this logic they could just say that Hema and Hirudo are tenno/orokin created infested weapons just as Nidus is and do whatever they want, they simply chose not to.
 

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

Instead we're going to get some random mis-matched old Tenno weapons that don't really belong with Nidus prime.

If it's true, sorry you aren't getting the weapons you want.  But I can't say I'm unhappy about this.   Locking new prime weapons to signature weapons bores me, and makes a lot of my favorite Tenno weapons unlikely to ever be primed.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

1 minute ago, Colyeses said:

The Hema and Hirudo were made by the infestation, while Nidus was designed by the Orokin to harness the infestation.

There has never been anything said to substantiate that claim, its purely conjecture. Judging by the theme and appearance of Hema and Hirudo one might speculate that they were created at the same time as Nidus which would either make them Orokin-made infested creations just as Nidus is or whatever it was that created Nidus himself.

But I'm not going to debate lore, I'm not the guy to delve that deeply. I'm just saying that its feasible that they could have done it if they wanted to.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

8 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

If it's true, sorry you aren't getting the weapons you want.  But I can't say I'm unhappy about this.   Locking new prime weapons to signature weapons bores me, and makes a lot of my favorite Tenno weapons unlikely to ever be primed.

I could see how that's appealing and I do want more older prime weapons to resurface but I feel like that'd be better suited for frames that don't have a full set of signature weapons. Like Yareli who's only got one signature, that would allow for one mismatched weapon to be released.

While a frame like Nidus who has a very unique set of signature weapons is seeing the only chance he could ever have to see them released pass him by. If they don't do his signature weapons now, there is never a time where they'll bother to even consider it again and that's heartbreaking.

[SneakyErvin]

17 minutes ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

There has never been anything said to substantiate that claim, its purely conjecture. Judging by the theme and appearance of Hema and Hirudo one might speculate that they were created at the same time as Nidus which would either make them Orokin-made infested creations just as Nidus is or whatever it was that created Nidus himself.

But I'm not going to debate lore, I'm not the guy to delve that deeply. I'm just saying that its feasible that they could have done it if they wanted to.

They share appearance with the regular Nidus and they come from Dojo research. That means the tenno came up with those weapons to fit the regular Nidus at the time. Nidus Prime pre-dates that by many many years and the Orokin had it use other "normal" weapons. Not all Dojo researched things have an Orokin connection.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

They share appearance with the regular Nidus and they come from Dojo research. That means the tenno came up with those weapons to fit the regular Nidus at the time. Nidus Prime pre-dates that by many many years and the Orokin had it use other "normal" weapons. Not all Dojo researched things have an Orokin connection.

There are dozens of infested, grineer and corpus weapons that require dojo research. That doesn't make them tenno weapons.

[FrostDragoon]

2 hours ago, Prexades said:

Aside from the lich gear, Corpus and Grineer already have upgraded variants with the Vandal and Wraith versions. I wouldn't mind some special type of infested gear.

This used to be the solution to this dilemma. Nidus shouldn't be Primed. He *maybe* could be Umbra'd. Or perhaps they should do something entirely different for unique variants of infested frames/gear.

[Tiltskillet]

1 minute ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

I could see how that's appealing and I do want more older prime weapons to resurface but I feel like that'd be better suited for frames that don't have a full set of signature weapons. Like Yareli who's only got one signature, that would allow for one mismatched weapon to be released.

While a frame like Nidus who has a very unique set of signature weapons is seeing the only chance he could ever have to see them released pass him by. If they don't do his signature weapons now, there is never a time where they'll bother to even consider it again and that's heartbreaking.

My guess is infested advanced variants are inevitable and probably coming in the... not too distant future?  It's surprising to me we don't have them yet, actually.  So it wouldn't surprise me to eventually see Hirudo Lymphi, or somesuch.  And Prisma, Vandal, and Wraith can't be completely ruled out.

But yeah, there's a lot of infested weapons now and this was certainly the most likely opportunity to get better versions of those two particular weapons.

[Zeclem]

1 hour ago, Atsia said:

Except nothing in the lore contradicts a prime for Nidus, while established convention for Priming does for the weapons.

whats that established convention? 

we know infested was made by the orokin. why would it be so outlandish to have some infested weapons designed by the orokin just for nidus at the very least?

[Wyrd_Oh]

Simplest solution; Deimos Hema, Deimos Hirudo.

The lore? Someone dropped them in the Cambion Drift and it mutated. Put them inside special infested relics along with some other misc goodies and call it a day.

[SneakyErvin]

12 minutes ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

There are dozens of infested, grineer and corpus weapons that require dojo research. That doesn't make them tenno weapons.

Of course not. What I'm pointing out is that there is no reason to prime Hema and Hirudo since they are probably not Orokin in origin. And only Tenno weapons with Orokin origin has a prime.

edit: Or pure Tenno weapons like Boar/Boar Prime.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

probably not Orokin in origin

There's no reason to assume they aren't though, if the Orokin made Nidus its likely that they made his themed weapons is all I'm saying. It could go either way, we simply don't know but everyone makes a lot of assumptions.

[Deminisis]

There are infested Orokin fish on Deimos, so the concept is plausible.

Guess we'll just have to wait for some infested abominations for liches to get weapon variants.

[FrostDragoon]

We all knew this would eventually be an issue when Nidus and Revenant came out, because every frame will eventually get Prime variants. DE's model relies on it too much not to. My suggestion is that they shouldn't violate this lore with some contrived excuse, but instead take a page from Umbra and make a separate variant that is functionally similar to "Primed" without actually being named as such and probably not having the Orokin death orb energy passive--give it something else instead.

[FrostDragoon]

1 minute ago, Deminisis said:

There are infested Orokin fish on Deimos, so the concept is plausible.

Guess we'll just have to wait for some infested abominations for liches to get weapon variants.

Those fish were originally Orokin in nature. We don't have reason to believe Hema and Hirudo were.

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

There's no reason to assume they aren't though, if the Orokin made Nidus its likely that they made his themed weapons is all I'm saying. It could go either way, we simply don't know but everyone makes a lot of assumptions.

Except that those weapons come from the Bio Lab and not the Tenno Lab. If they were Orokin in design they'd be safe and not need a Bio Lab, since they'd use Helminth and not pure infestation. Otherwise Wukong, Zephyr, Banshee and Nezha would also be tucked away in the Bio Lab for safety.