Arcane Barrier, is it balanced?

[ScytodiDaedalus]

So, I'm asking what does some of the playerbase think about Arcane Barrier's "balance" and usefulness with its increasing ranks, since I just noticed that while the unranked version has 1% chance it has a 1s cooldown after procing, however MAX Rank Arcane Barrier has 6% chance but 6s Cooldown. I would've imagined the cooldown not being directly proportional to the actual proc chance, but I haven't had the chance to playtest MAX RANK Barrier to even know how useful it can be.

Anybody willing to explain if it's even worth farming or how it compares to Aegis?

[KitMeHarder]

14 minutes ago, ScytodiDaedalus said:

Anybody willing to explain if it's even worth farming or how it compares to Aegis?

It only triggers on shield damage, so if it is ever to be useful on anyone besides Hildryn, this nerf needs to be reverted. Same with Aegis and Grace respectively. (Aegis is at least so strong that other frames can try to use it, even if they use it poorly.)

[Oggyswe]

19 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

It only triggers on shield damage, so if it is ever to be useful on anyone besides Hildryn, this nerf needs to be reverted. Same with Aegis and Grace respectively. (Aegis is at least so strong that other frames can try to use it, even if they use it poorly.)

i use it on mag and harrow it works great there especially with adaptation 

[KitMeHarder]

On 2021-11-19 at 3:56 PM, Oggyswe said:

i use it on mag and harrow it works great there especially with adaptation

IMO seems kinda pointless on frames that can instantly heal their shields and get max over shields. Hildryn is the only exception because she spends shields constantly, allowing for a more passive playstyle. Plus her massive capacity basically guarantees it'll proc, and she can't use energize or any of the pistol arcanes (effectively).

Why not just use Aegis on those frames if you want a shield arcane?

[Oggyswe]

50 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

IMO seems kinda pointless on frames that can instantly heal their shields and get max over shields. Hildryn is the only exception because she spends shields constantly, allowing for a more passive playstyle. Plus her massive capacity basically guarantees it'll proc, and she can't use energize or any of the pistol arcanes effectively.

Why not just use Aegis on those frames if you want a shield arcane?

I mixed them up i use Aegis

[_Anise_]

On 2021-11-19 at 9:59 PM, Oggyswe said:

I mixed them up i use Aegis

I would say mag doesn't need that one either, since her edit:#3 recharges shields and her #4 charges overshields.

on mag I run Energize because she is energy hungry and Arcane resistance to prevent falling over dead from random toxic, she is pretty survivable at high level content using her default kit without the need for shield mods.

[Roble_Viejo]

Just yesterday I was trying a new Trin build and I didnt know what Arcane
to slap on, so instead of using Aegis like I always do, I used Barrier. 

Now I have no idea of how or why, probably it is indeed the cooldown,
but I noticed its much much worse than Aegis, even tho Barrier chance 
to proc is 6% but Aegis is 3%.

As I typed that down I realized that Aegis is better because how it works.
If you get Shield Regeneration instead of full Shields, you will probably 
get more shields in total, and because Barrier has a cooldown, it will never 
make up for the difference. 

I think Im gonna sell my Maxed Arcane Barrier now lmao 

[(PSN)Unstar]

If you put Arcane Aegis and Arcane Barrier on a Hildryn with a maxed Redirection and Adaptation, you can go AFK for 15 minutes and the odds are in your favor that she'll still be alive when you get back, even if you were surrounded by 10 Corrupted Bombards and 10 Corrupted Gunners all at level 150.

Not that you should do that, it's just something I tried in the Simulacrum to get a rough feel for just how safe Hildryn is with these arcanes.  Do you need these arcanes?  Of course not.  But are you nearly invincible while using them both, regardless of whether you're playing like a dumb-dumb or not?  Absolutely, yes indeedy.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

3 hours ago, ScytodiDaedalus said:

Anybody willing to explain if it's even worth farming or how it compares to Aegis?

it's good when it triggers, but it's not reliable.

it only activates on shield damage so the best frames to use it on are those with already large shields: Hildryn being the obvious example, but it can work on Frost or Harrow too. it's not worth using on low shield frames. Aegis is arguably a lot better as it can proc more often. even at max rank, that 6% doesn't happen often, expect on Hildryn. even then, Hildryn can just pillage shields, as can Mag and Volt with Capacitance. 

the time where it shines is when you're a shield-heavy frame that has taken one too many hits and your shield is about to break; if RNG is on your side, and the enemy doesn't break your shield gate, you get full shields instantly.

I wouldn't lose sleep over not having it, it's situational at best. the only white arcanes really worth grinding for IMO are Energize and Grace, and you can omit Energize if you're a Zenurik user like me. Grace is really nice to have though.. 10/10 would regen health from the brink of death again.

 

[icybirdy44]

Speaking as an Inaros main, Grace can be even more ridiculous than the others, but it is balanced in that without shield gating, it is possible to die through being one-shot. That doesn't happen under normal circumstances, but there are a few instances like rare parts of Steel Path that can produce such a result.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

I see aegis and barrier as the shield versions of grace and guardian. Used together, they can work really well with high shield frames that also mod with faster recharge mods. My Yureli runs with Guardian and Barrier and the results are pretty satisfying, especially with adaptation in the mix. She moving enough to get barrier do its job while guardian provides a nice DR. If all else fails then the Rakta Dark Dagger and Vazarin school completes the survival setup and boom, a Yureli that can run with the big boys!

[ReddyDisco]

Shields need some kind of damage reduction or rework as to warrant any investment into shield based mods and arcanes, even with adaptation they don't last at all on higher levels which then leads to using decaying dragon key and brief respite to abuse shield gating.

[Tesseract7777]

16 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

Shields need some kind of damage reduction or rework as to warrant any investment into shield based mods and arcanes, even with adaptation they don't last at all on higher levels which then leads to using decaying dragon key and brief respite to abuse shield gating.

I think DE knows the mess they are made, but they are waiting until they have time to fully addresss the issue.

My guess is they plan to indirectly nerf decaying dragon key by actually making it useful to have higher shields instead of the opposite, they just haven't figured out the best/right way to do that yet.

[ReddyDisco]

3 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I think DE knows the mess they are made, but they are waiting until they have time to fully addresss the issue.

My guess is they plan to indirectly nerf decaying dragon key by actually making it useful to have higher shields instead of the opposite, they just haven't figured out the best/right way to do that yet.

I see the 'unintended' nerf coming too, only a matter of time. I just hope they buff shields and shield based mechanics in return

[Lutesque]

Let's see.... I get Smacked once by a Level 80 Charger and lose all 1600 of my Shields.... 

Adaptation has nothing to Adapt to...

And Because it happened in one hit... That means Arcane Barrier only Rolled it's chance to Proc Once...

I'm let you decided if you think it's Balanced 😐.

9 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

I would say mag doesn't need that one either, since her #2 recharges shields and her #4 charges overshields

Maggy's 2 (Magnetize) does no such thing.... You mixed it up with her 3 (Polarize).

9 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

 

on mag I run Energize because she is energy hungry and Arcane resistance to prevent falling over dead from random toxic, she is pretty survivable at high level content using her default kit without the need for shield mods.

Just so you know.... These Elemental Resistance Arcanes only Negate The Status Effect from Proccing... Since Both the Toxin Proc and Toxin Damage Bypass Shields you are still Vulnerable to Toxic Mutalist Opreys and Ancients.... And Noxes.

If you want to mitigate the Actual Toxin Damage you have to use:

 

[ReddyDisco]

3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

If you want to mitigate the Actual Toxin Damage you have to use:

These are kinda useless though, even with both equipped a single grapple hook from lvl180 toxic ancient will one shot a shield based warframe. What these do is provide a false sense of security where you think you can survive getting hooked but in reality you won't, its better to avoid or cc those at all costs 

[Reitrix]

4 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Let's see.... I get Smacked once by a Level 80 Charger and lose all 1600 of my Shields.... 

Adaptation has nothing to Adapt to...

And Because it happened in one hit... That means Arcane Barrier only Rolled it's chance to Proc Once...

I'm let you decided if you think it's Balanced 😐.

This has been the problem with Shields for a very long time. 

Shields vs Health in the early game is pretty well balanced. Health is tougher thanks to armor but doesn't naturally regen, Shields are weaker but recharge over time. 
For the most part, a Shield based frame will have about as much Shields as a Health frame has HP when using Redirection/Vitality etc. 
That basically holds true for most of the Star Chart. 

The problem with Shields at a high level is that we cannot improve our shield resistances to damage beyond that one single Mod: Adaptation. 
And as you say, it needs to take damage in order to scale resistances to that damage. 
EDIT: OH! Almost forgot, Adapation literally benefits Armor frames more than Shield ones anyway, because that DR stacks on top of all the OTHER DR that Armor frames have access to

They need to rework Shield mods so we can make Shields as tough as Health/Armor based frames. 
There are far more sources of health regeneration than Shield regeneration at the end game through arcanes, mods and Helminth.  
Regenerating Health is far more effective for staying alive because that health is backed up by Armor massively reducing incoming damage (Along with various DR abilities)
Shield Regen is far less effective due to being essentially capped at 25% DR (Which gets one shot by pretty much everything at high level) and unlike Health, does not regen while taking damage. 
We should not be relying on RNG Arcane procs and a singular mod from a mission type that can only be done once per hour and has an abysmal drop rate from said mission exclusively to make Shields even slightly less crap. 
INB4 all the elite dudes roll in with "lol l2p nub, WE dont need those things!"

Personally, i think our damage intake needs to be re-examined even for health frames. I can give Hydroid 1300 HP and 2500 Armor with his healing puddle augment and Grace procs and still be unable to properly survive in high level content despite literally never stopping. 
Meanwhile, My Parasitic Armor Ember facetanks practically everything in the game thanks to massive Armor on top of a 90% DR ability ...

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

17 hours ago, ScytodiDaedalus said:

So, I'm asking what does some of the playerbase think about Arcane Barrier's "balance" and usefulness with its increasing ranks, since I just noticed that while the unranked version has 1% chance it has a 1s cooldown after procing, however MAX Rank Arcane Barrier has 6% chance but 6s Cooldown. I would've imagined the cooldown not being directly proportional to the actual proc chance, but I haven't had the chance to playtest MAX RANK Barrier to even know how useful it can be.

Anybody willing to explain if it's even worth farming or how it compares to Aegis?

I have not found it to be useful, personally. I feel like by the time im wishing for more survivability what ends up happening isnmy shield just pops before this has a chance to proc. 

 

I like aegis better but even that im not super stoked on. I find myself usually running energize/guardian and if energize isnt relevant to the frame, grace.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

21 hours ago, ScytodiDaedalus said:

So, I'm asking what does some of the playerbase think about Arcane Barrier's "balance" and usefulness with its increasing ranks, since I just noticed that while the unranked version has 1% chance it has a 1s cooldown after procing, however MAX Rank Arcane Barrier has 6% chance but 6s Cooldown. I would've imagined the cooldown not being directly proportional to the actual proc chance, but I haven't had the chance to playtest MAX RANK Barrier to even know how useful it can be.

Anybody willing to explain if it's even worth farming or how it compares to Aegis?

The change is likely a counter to shield gating, which has made shields far more effective once zero is hit. Damage beyond Zero cancels out, effectively giving frames an additional chance at surviving until recharging occurs.

[Lutesque]

6 hours ago, ReddyDisco said:

These are kinda useless though, even with both equipped a single grapple hook from lvl180 toxic ancient will one shot a shield based warframe. What these do is provide a false sense of security where you think you can survive getting hooked but in reality you won't, its better to avoid or cc those at all costs 

I totally agree... Infact I was doing that just now 😁.... Sadly I died because I couldnt rely on my Specters  but the Strategy Definitely works.... Just not for my Nekros'...

 

5 hours ago, Reitrix said:

Personally, i think our damage intake needs to be re-examined even for health frames. I can give Hydroid 1300 HP and 2500 Armor with his healing puddle augment and Grace procs and still be unable to properly survive in high level content despite literally never stopping. 
Meanwhile, My Parasitic Armor Ember facetanks practically everything in the game thanks to massive Armor on top of a 90% DR ability ...

Indeed... DR is king.... Why else would DE give it to Liches... It's obviously that good...

 

[_Anise_]

14 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Maggy's 2 (Magnetize) does no such thing.... You mixed it up with her 3 (Polarize).

yep that I did, well it was more that I remembered the ability being the armor strip pulse I just mixed up what button it was on 🤣

 

14 hours ago, Lutesque said:

If you want to mitigate the Actual Toxin Damage you have to use

sadly I don't have any wiggle room to fit those into my build so the toxic status mitigation will have to be enough, my build is an endurance one meant for high level content (made by siomeone better than me 😅) so assume it should be fine without those mods

[Lutesque]

6 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

🤣

sadly I don't have any wiggle room to fit those into my build so the toxic status mitigation will have to be enough, my build is an endurance one meant for high level content (made by siomeone better than me 😅) so assume it should be fine without those mods

Neither Do I.... Infact Nobody does.... I think DE needs to reconsider Aura Mods again.... 🤔...

In any case Maggy can Definitely find a way around that.... With MOOOOOOOAAAAR POOOOOOOOOOWAAAAAAAA !!! 😱