Riven Disposition Guidelines

[Tiltskillet]

6 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Like, you might want to check Knell Prime has the dispo you want, and doublecheck Nagantaka Prime before the update.

@[DE]Connor

:P

Edited March 28, 2022 by Tiltskillet

[Braneman]

"this allows us to keep Dispositions within a family relatively close to each other, to avoid a situation where a weaker weapon becomes the stronger choice once a Riven is applied."

I don't like that one too much, it feels like it goes against what rivens were supposed to do in the first place.

[Tau.]

Anecdotally, it appears a massive burnout point with this game, is when some players fall for the trap of getting heavily invested in rivens. So often when someone mentions that they quit WF, the two points cited seem to always be Mesa or Rivens. 

Devs can state a thousand times that it is not the intent of the purple crack card system to enforce a topheavy power hierarchy, yet a certain portion of the playerbase culture always insists on viewing it that way. 

I wonder: Among the things the devs track - do you guys keep stats on the correlation between rivens and burnout/quits? 

[Her_Lovely_Tentacles]

Releasing new weapons with 0.5 Disposition kills almost all of the hype.

What's the point in getting the prime variant if the regular variant is just straight up better?
Having prime weapons be mastery fodder for 3-6 months just feels bad.

I'd rather take higher starting points and early dispo nerfs.

[Udoshi]

14 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

 

• Riven Dispositions generally span from 0.5 to 1.5. The Arsenal dots are not a static representation of these numbers, but representative of percentages - so a weapon with 1 dot is in the bottom 20% of Dispositions, while a weapon with 5 dots is in the top 20%.

Hey, could you change the dot system to just show the disposition # value in game? I hate having to look it up constantly in game

 

also like

make 0.7 or 0.8 a minimum floor for disposition because some weapons are just absoute garbage with regards to like, hitting an amount of decent stats. The 0.5 floor means rivens with a negative are almost 100% required, and that just rules out entire grades of rivens from being useful or not.

 

thanks

[Rasdan]

Here's an input.

Use exact numbers instead of dots ingame.

[TheLordOmega2]

I think rivens need a DEEP rework because they still fail at making low tier weapons viable, sure they can make nice weapons good, or good weapons amazing, but they never take you from even just "meh" to "good". (having them be additive to base stats would help a lot, but you'd need to rebalance them by a lot).

Le 28/03/2022 à 19:01, [DE]Connor a dit :

Riven Dispositions generally span from 0.5 to 1.5. The Arsenal dots are not a static representation of these numbers, but representative of percentages - so a weapon with 1 dot is in the bottom 20% of Dispositions, while a weapon with 5 dots is in the top 20%.

I didn't know that, but this show how needlessly obtuse that dot thing is.

Le 28/03/2022 à 19:01, [DE]Connor a dit :

Newly released weapons start at the minimum of 0.5. This gives us the opportunity to see how a weapon performs in players’ hands, so that we can make educated changes instead of starting at an artificially higher number. This saves us, and players, from having to constantly reduce new weapons after release. 

"Can't get worse if you start at rock bottom." This has always been terrible and kills any kind of new weapon hype.

In case you don't know, finding absurdly powerful combos is FUN.

Le 28/03/2022 à 19:01, [DE]Connor a dit :

• Although Rivens can be equipped to an entire “weapon family”, Dispositions are given to each individual weapon. You can equip the same Riven Mod onto Braton, Braton Prime and Braton Vandal, but the stats of the Riven may differ slightly depending on which weapon you are modding. 
• In the Riven Cycle screen, you can see how stats differ between weapon types you own by changing the option in the bottom right.

This is a terrible mechanic, plain and simple, it often kicks down weapons in a same family from upgrade to sidegrade when you take rivens into accounts, it's confusing and feels really unfair. Plus, the stats are shown only for the weapons you own, so someone farming a variant because they got a compatible riven will be REALLY disappointed when this mechanic hits them by surprise and makes their effort feel meaningless.

Imagine if basic damage mods didn't work as well on some variants because of "balance" or if you couldn't equip a certain mod on a variant against all intent and logic because the balance team is afraid of it (oh wait, this is Scattered Justice on the Kuva Hek).

Le 28/03/2022 à 19:01, [DE]Connor a dit :

• For each set of adjustments, we generate a “recommended” value for each weapon. This number is based 50% on usage stats from players at high Mastery Rank, and 50% from an “internal ranking”.

What does "high" mean? MR8 like for the "built for expert players" helmnith system? it allows hype from content creators to absolutely tank a dispo, it's bad and might have really bad side effects for these creators (getting hate for revealing "stealth meta" weapons, making them popular and getting them nerfed).

Le 28/03/2022 à 19:01, [DE]Connor a dit :

• These internal rankings are maintained by Digital Extremes developers based on a weapon’s perceived strength, and are adjusted when opinions change, or when a stronger variant of a weapon is released. Internal rankings are applied per family of weapon - this allows us to keep Dispositions within a family relatively close to each other, to avoid a situation where a weaker weapon becomes the stronger choice once a Riven is applied. 

Except it doesn't work, some weapons were built "around the system" (dragon nikana) to have a better dispo [than the nikana prime] at the cost of being slightly worse and are now irrelevant and some weapons are still plain better than their prime (aksomati) because of that (and other side factors like the prime not being much stronger or having a bad gimmick).

Le 28/03/2022 à 19:01, [DE]Connor a dit :

Warframe has a long history of reworks and system changes that can shift the power dynamic drastically over time. This is why Rivens are an ever-changing system: Tenno should have a reason to use their favorite weapons, instead of choosing solely based on power. With the knowledge that these Riven Mods can change over time, we encourage Tenno to remain flexible and experiment in response to changes, to truly master their Arsenals even further.

Riven mods never truly changed, only the dispo, and people still tend to cling to their favorite weapons (that often happen to also be the most effective ones) until they get nerfed into uselessness or they find the next hot thing, the dispo changes are most of the time just a painful downwards spiral, not a real stabilization at a reasonable level.

[Mixnek]

On 2022-03-28 at 7:01 PM, [DE]Connor said:

For each set of adjustments, we generate a “recommended” value for each weapon. This number is based 50% on usage stats from players at high Mastery Rank, and 50% from an “internal ranking”.

You see, your method is flawed in the sense that you limit players to only half the riven slots in regards to weapon quantity and base your decision on what is being used. With every new added weapon you make it increasingly impossible to test different weapons with rivens, since the ratio is now 2:1 (twice as many weapons vs. possible riven slots). Can there really be no system to increase max. riven capacity with new weapon releases, Connor?

[The_Worlds_Eater]

В 29.03.2022 в 00:01, [DE]Connor сказал:

With the knowledge that these Riven Mods can change over time, we encourage Tenno to remain flexible and experiment in response to changes, to truly master their Arsenals even further.

Kuva Bramma players:

[Voltage]

On 2022-03-28 at 1:01 PM, [DE]Connor said:

With the knowledge that these Riven Mods can change over time, we encourage Tenno to remain flexible and experiment in response to changes, to truly master their Arsenals even further.

Except people have been buying the same stats for the same types of weapons for 6 years. We've come full circle. You added the very Disposition mechanic because of people only going for Rivens for Tonkor. It's almost like Disposition has had no effect, players have been saying this for half a decade, and it's being ignored.

But sure, keep pretending the invested Riven owners experiment while Rubico Rivens for Rubico Prime have the same desired stats they've had since Chroma Prime Access was released. It's also not "experimenting" when everyone has to start cutting Base Damage multipliers in response to the Conditional Status Chance Base Damage meta that diminishes the opportunity cost of the multiplier.

[Morteno]

On 2022-03-29 at 8:09 AM, Her_Lovely_Tentacles said:

Releasing new weapons with 0.5 Disposition kills almost all of the hype.

What's the point in getting the prime variant if the regular variant is just straight up better?
Having prime weapons be mastery fodder for 3-6 months just feels bad.

Yeah, let me explain that to you. They got this idea in their head, that you will think 'it can't get any lower so it can only get better' and hype yourself up with the hope that some day, after at least 5 riven passes (taking an estimated 1.5 years) it will have gained enough dispo.
Secondly, that you'll get it anyway, because "wow, new stuff that I don't have yet!".
Those other points, like lagging behind the base weapon (in case of primes/variants) or lagging behind other comparable options that have better dispo, they really don't want you to think that far.
Nor that it is at cross-purposes with the powercreep driver: making new stuff if not straight up OP then at least strong enough to draw people to plat/primeshop.
If something is that strong to begin with and if they are thinking straight, they will not allow it to get stronger dispo later, because that would get in the way of repeating the cycle - or having to make the powercreep even steeper.
So we end up with these token .05 changes, that are more for show. Just to spell it out for everyone: .05 is 5 percentagepoints relative to a 1.0 disposition. +/-5 points on the scaling on a single mod out of the 8 fitted is not moving anything, there are far bigger differences to consider between weapons. And there are threshold points, specially outside the rapidfire weapons where you can not count on sheer number of hits to average things out.

On 2022-03-29 at 12:55 AM, Voltage said:

The average person isn't using Rivens, and the way Rivens are treated internally only punish those interested in Rivens. It would be alot easier if Disposition simply didn't exist and time was spent on lowering/increasing base stats when applicable every 3 months to keep things fresh.

Cute, so you want to extend the suffering to the average rivenless joes? What have they done to be targeted like that? Not flocked here to demand reform of a system they do not use? A system that is far out of their reach, through grind and reroll and layers of RNG, or will set them back $50+ in plat for a single weapon-specific mod that is subject to some deliberately opaque jo-jo "balancing" system that makes it nearly impossible to make informed decisions on how to spend time or money. Both of which could be spent more enjoyably than having to waste them on chasing some as rare, fickle and farfetched as rivens.
Most 'average' players correctly realize that the least losing move is to not take part in the system. If by rng they get one, that matches a weapon they like/have and it also happens to be good, then great, but they are not chasing it.

I do not see what the general idea with 'to keep things fresh' is. Have you seen the weekly framebuff invigorations system?
Does not become available until you reach max rank with entrati - a hideous requirement btw -  then every week there are 3 possible buffs and you get to pick one.
Do you consider that 'fresh'?

Also, have you honestly thought about how drastic the changes would need to be? People bramma/zarr/whatever because MUCH AOE / HITS MANY. And using indirect statbooster (furax a...) and whatnot.
Similarly at the other end, they don't braton, burston or tigris because, well, almost everything about them. Just like they don't bring mote amp if they can help it.
Invigorations give a small glimpse of it how hard things will have to be jacked up or hammered into scraps, to make it 'fresh' enough for people to upset their status quo and use not just something else like a similar sidegrade but a meaningfully different option.
It's the same with sorties: they outright say "this one you have to do with shotguns" and what not, to *force* the use of other stuff. Few things, short of blacklisting certain weapons or aoe-ish weapons, will actually get change.
Same things will likely get some 'cancelled' responses like sortie does already 'Sortie? Not today, bad restriction.' And that will of course spill over if you want a 'fresh' regime that actually delivers the kind of results you are looking for. Then instead it just becomes 'WF? Not this season'. Which means customers out the door as they discover other options. I dare say fewer will be gained from forced 'fresh' than will be lost to the prospect of their toys being "broken" for 3 months at a time.
Even if you wanted to contemplate such drastic measures, because some games with much larger audiences get away with it, think about why that is. When Dota or Lol do it, they know that very few will actually go somewhere else, because they can not get anywhere near as big a pool of players and "as tightly run ships" elsewhere and they would have to relearn a major wiki worth of details and much reflex action to become proficient in the competitor. Shooters are much more interchangeable.

Here is the kicker for you Volt, though I think you already get it. All that previous stuff is just pretending it matters to try to discuss it, so don't get hung up on it.
Rivens are basically a can of potty-scrapings meant to distract. You'll either never finish them or end up paying a fortune for what amounts to a deck of rare pokemon cards. Either way it gives DE money through the plat used to trade them and keeps some 'elements' busy that are vulnerable to gambling or can't quit until they have the best. Damned lot cheaper than making actual improvements and content, just have to keep tweaking that dispo, it really tunnelvisions many.
Now think again, do they really want a *working* riven system, one that converges (rapidly) on a longterm stable result? Or do they want to keep the distraction rolling, deliberately appearing hard of hearing and less intelligent than they have to be, to appear unable to make even marginal improvements.
Did you think it was for nothing that the adjustments are so minimal and at least 3 months apart? That you can not see the actual dispo (and its previous value) ingame? That "obvious" solutions/improvements, essentially crowdsourced several times over on the forum, go ignored?
Added bonus: obviously we few, the forumgoers, also have to have something to keep us busy and distract each other with, so we mostly don't go pointing out inconvenient things or at least get buried in the flow. Rivens and their threads really deliver on multiple fronts for DE.

Anyway. I am tired and I was being more candid than usual as my interest in WF is coming to an end, and with it the interest in being overly diplomatic about it, because WF is about to change undesirably in a big way. In hindsight the signs of trouble were there earlier, TNW just made it abundantly clear how far it might reach, without assurance that they won't break or block the core parts that I use.

[Voltage]

7 hours ago, Morteno said:

Cute, so you want to extend the suffering to the average rivenless joes? What have they done to be targeted like that? Not flocked here to demand reform of a system they do not use? A system that is far out of their reach, through grind and reroll and layers of RNG, or will set them back $50+ in plat for a single weapon-specific mod that is subject to some deliberately opaque jo-jo "balancing" system that makes it nearly impossible to make informed decisions on how to spend time or money. Both of which could be spent more enjoyably than having to waste them on chasing some as rare, fickle and farfetched as rivens.
Most 'average' players correctly realize that the least losing move is to not take part in the system. If by rng they get one, that matches a weapon they like/have and it also happens to be good, then great, but they are not chasing it.

I do not see what the general idea with 'to keep things fresh' is. Have you seen the weekly framebuff invigorations system?
Does not become available until you reach max rank with entrati - a hideous requirement btw -  then every week there are 3 possible buffs and you get to pick one.
Do you consider that 'fresh'?

Also, have you honestly thought about how drastic the changes would need to be? People bramma/zarr/whatever because MUCH AOE / HITS MANY. And using indirect statbooster (furax a...) and whatnot.
Similarly at the other end, they don't braton, burston or tigris because, well, almost everything about them. Just like they don't bring mote amp if they can help it.
Invigorations give a small glimpse of it how hard things will have to be jacked up or hammered into scraps, to make it 'fresh' enough for people to upset their status quo and use not just something else like a similar sidegrade but a meaningfully different option.
It's the same with sorties: they outright say "this one you have to do with shotguns" and what not, to *force* the use of other stuff. Few things, short of blacklisting certain weapons or aoe-ish weapons, will actually get change.
Same things will likely get some 'cancelled' responses like sortie does already 'Sortie? Not today, bad restriction.' And that will of course spill over if you want a 'fresh' regime that actually delivers the kind of results you are looking for. Then instead it just becomes 'WF? Not this season'. Which means customers out the door as they discover other options. I dare say fewer will be gained from forced 'fresh' than will be lost to the prospect of their toys being "broken" for 3 months at a time.
Even if you wanted to contemplate such drastic measures, because some games with much larger audiences get away with it, think about why that is. When Dota or Lol do it, they know that very few will actually go somewhere else, because they can not get anywhere near as big a pool of players and "as tightly run ships" elsewhere and they would have to relearn a major wiki worth of details and much reflex action to become proficient in the competitor. Shooters are much more interchangeable.

Here is the kicker for you Volt, though I think you already get it. All that previous stuff is just pretending it matters to try to discuss it, so don't get hung up on it.
Rivens are basically a can of potty-scrapings meant to distract. You'll either never finish them or end up paying a fortune for what amounts to a deck of rare pokemon cards. Either way it gives DE money through the plat used to trade them and keeps some 'elements' busy that are vulnerable to gambling or can't quit until they have the best. Damned lot cheaper than making actual improvements and content, just have to keep tweaking that dispo, it really tunnelvisions many.
Now think again, do they really want a *working* riven system, one that converges (rapidly) on a longterm stable result? Or do they want to keep the distraction rolling, deliberately appearing hard of hearing and less intelligent than they have to be, to appear unable to make even marginal improvements.
Did you think it was for nothing that the adjustments are so minimal and at least 3 months apart? That you can not see the actual dispo (and its previous value) ingame? That "obvious" solutions/improvements, essentially crowdsourced several times over on the forum, go ignored?
Added bonus: obviously we few, the forumgoers, also have to have something to keep us busy and distract each other with, so we mostly don't go pointing out inconvenient things or at least get buried in the flow. Rivens and their threads really deliver on multiple fronts for DE.

Anyway. I am tired and I was being more candid than usual as my interest in WF is coming to an end, and with it the interest in being overly diplomatic about it, because WF is about to change undesirably in a big way. In hindsight the signs of trouble were there earlier, TNW just made it abundantly clear how far it might reach, without assurance that they won't break or block the core parts that I use.

My point was to make changes that affect everyone who plays the game. When you see a weapon get a massive disposition spike, maybe that weapon family should be examined and given some buffs. In the same manner, for the love of Captain Vor, look at Celestial Twin and AoE weapons. DE used to have a good stance on how bad AoE was for Warframe, but for years now it seems they just stopped caring and have even doubled down on it. DE should stop approaching Rivens like they influence anything. People who want good Rivens end up rolling for or trading for the same stats they always have. If anything their whole approach makes optimizing even more strict for attributes to be desirable. 

It would just be nice if DE could recognize some of these issues. I don't support the vocal players who want randomization removed. I think randomized mods are pretty cool. Disposition though is just dumb. The approach is also just as dumb as Kuva Hek and Scattered Justice.

The rest of your response just sounds very angry and while I don't have a lot to disagree with, I think the reality is all businesses look at are numbers at the end of the day. Consumers are numbers too. Best to just enjoy the game or you will find every corporation acts in faith toward their wallet, not your satisfaction.

[Graavarg]

8 hours ago, Morteno said:

Yeah, let me explain that to you. They got this idea in their head, that you will think 'it can't get any lower so it can only get better' and hype yourself up with the hope that some day, after at least 5 riven passes (taking an estimated 1.5 years) it will have gained enough dispo.
Secondly, that you'll get it anyway, because "wow, new stuff that I don't have yet!".
Those other points, like lagging behind the base weapon (in case of primes/variants) or lagging behind other comparable options that have better dispo, they really don't want you to think that far.

No. While we can't know exactly what DE was thinking, the main reason seemed to be the toxic trade with "probable" upcoming new primed weapons. Which was driven by the combination of a high disposition unfairly inherited from a lower-tier weapon (the non-prime version) for a weapon that is actually better overall (the primed version). In order to not have the dispo of the non-prime weapon drop through the floor the disposition was split into a non-prime and prime part, which can be different.

It is a bit more complex (like most things) but the short version would be that "greed" was to blame (also not uncommon).

The current system is a bit of a mess overall, since it is not the singular "power creep"-fix it wants to be. One reason is that power creep is like a drug, we Tenno dislike it, we don't really need it but we sure do crave it. One reason is the trading with rivens, which generates a platinum-Lotto effect from rolling them and where the prices are not allowed to fluctuate by supply and demand like in a normal market, due to the trading system sucking big time. And one reason is the riven slot system with an arbitrary and non-functional "upper limit", a limit which focuses riven use for Youtube's META-weapons and a player's "best weapons", further enhancing the difference between "the few powerful" and "the rest not so good"-weapons. The max limit actually stops player from enjoying and tinkering with rivens for the majority of weapons in the game, since it is simply "not allowed". Go figure.

The current disposition system where your in-game Warframe environment is affected from outside the game by DE manually tinkering with riven dispositions is, however, totally bonkers. Yes, there has to be some anti-dote for powercreep, and it can't be making new primed weapons weaker. But at least make the disposition a part of the actual game, with some built-in formulas that numerically adjust the disposition up or down directly from the actual in-game use. It can't be too hard to even create a lore backdrop for this, like something along the line of all weapon type rivens collectively acting like a "disposition battery cell", the more they are being used the more the dispo is being discharged, becoming weaker. And the less they are collectively used, the more the dispo gets re-charged and goes higher. And all this out in the open, in a node where Cephalon Samodeus can reside and players can check the trends and the current dispo for all weapons. Even the changes from day to day are infinitesimally small, this would be a heck of a lot better than "what is DE going to do after three months?".

[TARINunit9]

On 2022-03-28 at 10:09 AM, mikakor said:

yes, we know. but for the love of everything that is holy, PLEASE add a fast way to farm kuva + a way to LOCK the stats of the rivens so we can work up to something we want, and not always be a slave to RNG in it's purest form. 

They already announced on a devstream: there will be NO stat locking on Rivens

[Rigtis]

En 29/3/2022 a las 12:10, TheLordOmega2 dijo:

I think rivens need a DEEP rework

I mean... what in WF doesn't need a deep rework? 🙂

[mikakor]

On 2022-04-03 at 2:48 AM, TARINunit9 said:

They already announced on a devstream: there will be NO stat locking on Rivens

just like they announced that prime warframes would be limited. guess what, we now have a prime warframe for each warframe . 

things can always change. and stat locking should be a thing

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, mikakor said:

just like they announced that prime warframes would be limited. guess what, we now have a prime warframe for each warframe . 

They never announced that for Primes. Are you thinking of Umbras?

[mikakor]

31 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

They never announced that for Primes. Are you thinking of Umbras?

no no no. a long time ago they did say that primes were supposed to be limited. to i think the starter frames. like, a WHILE ago.  we're tlaking beginning of the game. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by mikakor

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, mikakor said:

no no no. a long time ago they did say that primes were supposed to be limited. to i think the starter frames. like, a WHILE ago.  we're tlaking beginning of the game. 

Sounds like pre-2013 or so

But as for stat locking, don't hold your breath. Steve claims (paraphrased) they've had interns suggest stat locking multiple times and the senior staff have shot it down each time

[mikakor]

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

Sounds like pre-2013 or so

But as for stat locking, don't hold your breath. Steve claims (paraphrased) they've had interns suggest stat locking multiple times and the senior staff have shot it down each time

well, the old gotta get trashed to let the new blossom. honestly i hope it passes eventually. we can see that the so called "senior staff" doesn't take at heart the respect of player's time. ;-; but thx for telling me. 

[Thordd]

I like rivens but there are many weapons that are very disappointing even with a "good" riven for it because the weapon damage simply is not there.   I am not sure the dev's summary touches on that topic at all.  Basically some weapons are not helped enough with a riven, which is the whole point of a riven.  

[(PSN)FluxOmega]

On 2022-03-28 at 6:21 PM, An8rchy said:

So, how does this explain the sudden disposition nerf on Paracesis? 
Right after Scarlet Spear, the disposition got nuked by .15 points. It wasn't even meta back then, and it was only because SS promoted the use of it. It really felt like a planned thing to nerf its disposition.
In my opinion, disposition still needs better ways to be calculated, AND new weapons starting at the lowest disposition possible simply disincentives people from getting / playing around rivens. Continuing that logic, even to this day, there's dispositions that makes values so low that they aren't even worth slotting. 
While on paper i agree to the way disposition is calculated now, there are still issues in this system that i wished it would be looked at more.

This one always puzzled me. I get that you want to use "usage" stats to help influence the disposition changes (I don't completely agree with this, certainly not at 50% anyway, if a weapon is fun people will use it, why punish them for that, and it's not making poor weapons better by doing so), but in the case of the Paracesis, you literally had an event that encouraged everyone to use that sword, so of course the usage stats are going to rocket. And let's not forget there are still Sentient ships in Railjack that people will be using the sword for. Whether someone is using the Paracesis because it's their favourite weapon, or because it gets the job done better against Sentients, the usage stats have been pushed up for the weapon, which has meant the disposition has been cut down to a minimum.

A better approach would have been to monitor the usage of this weapon outside of the event and game modes that encourage you to use it. This would show how many people are actually using the sword for the rest of the game content.

I hope you can see how crazy it is to say "the Paracesis is being used by a lot of people, so we need to reduce the Riven disposition" when you are running events and missions actively encouraging people to use the Paracesis! *face palm*

[Sasha-]

On 2022-04-02 at 10:17 PM, Morteno said:

is about to change undesirably in a big way. In hindsight the signs of trouble were there earlier

I'm sorry but you just seem incredibly salty about something (probably opinion related). Your entire post reads very angry and salty. 🙃 I thought TNW was great. I have been playing since 2013 lol.

[Numerounius]

On 2022-03-28 at 10:01 AM, [DE]Connor said:

• These internal rankings are maintained by Digital Extremes developers based on a weapon’s perceived strength, and are adjusted when opinions change, or when a stronger variant of a weapon is released. Internal rankings are applied per family of weapon - this allows us to keep Dispositions within a family relatively close to each other, to avoid a situation where a weaker weapon becomes the stronger choice once a Riven is applied. 
•  

On 2022-03-28 at 10:01 AM, [DE]Connor said:

Tenno should have a reason to use their favorite weapons, instead of choosing solely based on power.

On 2022-03-28 at 10:01 AM, [DE]Connor said:

• For each set of adjustments, we generate a “recommended” value for each weapon. This number is based 50% on usage stats from players at high Mastery Rank, and 50% from an “internal ranking”.
•  

Emphasis mine.

Once Khora Prime launches people will be flocking to the weapons that have the highest riven disposition since Khora Prime's exalted whip only cares about the riven stats and which ones are the highest. This rise in usage will cause riven disposition to change independent of how strong or weak a weapon is.

We have seen this happen with the Furax Wraith where people were using the weapon purely for amalgram furax body count. It is possible to become a problem with the upcoming incaron weapons heading into their first riven disposition upgrade where people can be equipping the weapon just for their sprint speed bonus.

I love to use the telos boltace so this is very concerning to me to have a riven disposition changed solely due to player usage for its parkour movements and not weapon power level.

It might be argued that a passive bonus is considered part of the power level as well but in the case of Khora's whipclaw the weapon's power isn't even being used, just its mods.

We have also seen how newer weapons can get shafted on riven dispositions changes since people are not using them purely based on power level and mainly just for their MR, see Ghoul Saw and how it received no changes on its first pass for a weapon that isn't even talked about anymore.

 

Can DE clarify this post and the riven dispositions guidelines regarding weapons and their usage based on their "passive" effects and/or being solely used for a riven and not just its power level? I laid out a couple of examples provided earlier in this post.

I can see this becoming a problem once Khora Prime and using rivens for whipclaw becomes enough of a problem to start influencing that 50% player usage stat that is being used.

[Rasdan]

You know the biggest problem of this explanation?

It's not ingame.

Imagine being a player that is oblivious of Forums' existence.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Rasdan
emphasis