Newest Wave Of Incarnons Will Be Purchasable With Platinum

[TheArmchairThinker]

19 hours ago, Silligoose said:

 

More reason why they shouldn't sell any incarnon on the market and any future equipments, only cosmetics so you can't buy your way if you want that weapon (not even tradeable)

18 hours ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

I don't see an issue here. You can either wait and farm it or pay to acquire them early. 

And with Plat being quite accessible without spending $, depending on the price you don't even have to buy plat to acquire them.

Depending on price, it's not an issue.

We have this on so many companies, give them an inch and they'll try another inch until it becomes too late so no, don't let DE fall into the same hole and give no chance for "Warframe is p2w" BS or any predatory monetization

Everyone must do the grind

*Evil laugh*

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

27 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

More reason why they shouldn't sell any incarnon on the market and any future equipments, only cosmetics so you can't buy your way if you want that weapon (not even tradeable)

We have this on so many companies, give them an inch and they'll try another inch until it becomes too late so no, don't let DE fall into the same hole and give no chance for "Warframe is p2w" BS or any predatory monetization

Everyone must do the grind

*Evil laugh*

It's not even remotely predatory. Especially with the requirements you have to meet before you get to access them. 

Not only that you still have to either farm for the weapon or wait for it to come in Prime Resurgence. Or engage in Trade Chat to get them.

So if a player wants to spend platinum to speed things up in one area and use there time in another way to acquire it, that's more then OK.

And it's also not like they're exclusively purchasable. Someone who's already collected everything likely won't want to use plat on a Boar or Gorgon Incarnon.

But the player that's going to be waiting to get one AND say a Prisma Gorgon or Boar Prime Incarnon Adapoter would value it more.

I don't see a problem with this.

[SneakyErvin]

55 minutes ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

And that's your prerogative however what you value and what I or others value to spend platinum on is very different. 

I can only speak for myself but my schedule is 2 weeks on/off. When I'm at work, I only have so much free time as I'm also on-call. (I stay where I work). 

I can't get through a full Circuit with the time I do have. So generally, during this time is where I'm more active in the trade chat. 

In 30 minutes of time I'm making platinum. So in 30 minutes...I can bypass the 3-5 hour weekly Circuit and still get the incarnon that I may want this way.

So personally, I value this. Platinum isn't hard to come by and it's not coming out of my pocket. 

And that I can fully understand. I dont see any sense when it comes to spending actual money on them. You are in your case still enjoying aspects of the game to get these things, just not the circuit. Which to me is a good, swapping one type of content for something else. Though I wouldnt get my hopes up that 30 minutes would get people enough platinum for the genesis adapters. I'm actually really curious what the price will actually be for them. I would expect something between a potato and a weapon or something.

[Circle_of_Psi]

What's really funny is that some of the weapons presented porb won't live up to the ones we got from the Rotations, like Lex Incarron, tho I might be surprised! either way, if they are strong I'll def farm for it

[Uan91]

it would have been so much better if they created 2 or more circuits that run at the same time with different and never the same incarnon rewards., where to divide this looooooong cicle of incarnon rewards. 

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

What's really funny is that some of the weapons presented porb won't live up to the ones we got from the Rotations, like Lex Incarron, tho I might be surprised! either way, if they are strong I'll def farm for it

I want new skins and a bit of the cosmetic reworks on these weapons. Many of these old models sucks. A revamp on the model and animations would motivate me get Incarnons for them. A good renovation never hurts the game items. 

[Silligoose]

21 hours ago, TeaHands said:

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I would love to see someone attempt a p2w run of Warframe. Where at the end they have to do 1 full round of Void Armageddon on Solo Steelpath.

I suppose it could be interesting. Some would breeze through it, whilst others may strugle.

21 hours ago, stormy505 said:

Warframe is def Pay to Win, but also because the content is frankly not that hard and we aren't competing with other players to complete stuff I think a lot of people don't feel super pressured to spend on power increases. Also helps that premium currency is farmable ingame so stuff still feels within reach for F2Ps.

DE has handled it pretty well in my opinion, barring some of the farm grinds as mentioned earlier.

3 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

More reason why they shouldn't sell any incarnon on the market and any future equipments, only cosmetics so you can't buy your way if you want that weapon (not even tradeable)

To me it seems the p2w mechanic in Warframe does influence grinds and leads to some farming roads being far too long (eg Arcane R5 Arcane Energize), leads to faster power creep and leads to balance being neglected. 

It would be interesting to have know how the game would be handled if only cosmetics were purchasable. Updates would probably be less buggy and balance would likely be better, with band-aids being encountered less., since DE currently appears to be trying to monetize some of the fixes in one way or another, instead of just addressing the imbalance properly (eg they tend to release Augments for frames to help bring them up to speed instead of changing the frame's mechanics).

 

[Felsagger]

14 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

To me it seems the p2w mechanic in Warframe does influence grinds and leads to some farming roads being far too long (eg Arcane R5 Arcane Energize), leads to faster power creep and leads to balance being neglected. 

It would be interesting to have know how the game would be handled if only cosmetics were purchasable. Updates would probably be less buggy and balance would likely be better, with band-aids being encountered less., since DE currently appears to be trying to monetize some of the fixes in one way or another, instead of just addressing the imbalance properly (eg they tend to release Augments for frames to help bring them up to speed instead of changing the frame's mechanics).

 

Which is correct. 

Silligoose, I read in another thread the concept Pay to Skip or P2S. This is the classical route that DE uses imposing time gates, gear checks, time sinks and resource gates for their market. DE UNDERSTANDS very well how a working class middle age man works. They read tables of statistical data of an average person with a job, set of obligations and standard working hours in an eight am to five pm work. under those circumstances they estimate the time tables and the gates. 

I don't know if Pay to Win is precise but I do know there are speed runs that are based the ownership of RNG top rolls on the rivens or grolls. The faster the skip, the better for the collection of resources AND platinum. Makes sense the way you correlate the concept in this game. I think that, maybe I'm wrong, that P2W and P2S are correlated here somehow. 

People that works, would pay since their schedule is tight to working hours, housekeeping, and grocery store purchases among other maintenance tasks. Of course the game creation is NOT for free so DE makes their money in this Pay to Skip model where the strategy is the classical time saver. We architects have a time saver standards for building archetypes and building precedents with space estimates of use with different tables. Of course we paid a lot for such book. 

Video games ARE a dangerous distraction and a hurdle of responsibilities if it is not managed well. DE fabricated this alternative called Pay to Skip for instant gratification. DE knows their sociological study and the proper estimates of averages, Gaussian curves distributions and their surveying data quite well. These nerds do their homework to perfection consulting psychologists and experts in behavioral science for their marketing strategies. 

SEE REBECCA's background education and her Curriculum Vitae. That gives you a good hint with what type of people you are dealing with. This is FUNDAMENTAL for any practice. I study my subjects carefully and how they think. Everybody SHOULD DO the same to know where they are and where we are in the DARWINIAN Food chain. 

The reality of PAY TO SKIP and the excess of extrinsic are business models that worked for DE, granted. However the construction of the game around those parameters such as the GAAS F2P P2P structure doesn't provide a great game, just an average. It gets a bit aggravated when the P2S and P2W models are inserted in the structure everywhere. Yes Warframe is a game of numbers, RNG and harvesting. The excessive focus on the economical strategy hampers the quality and delivery of the game. However a good focus on intrinsic gameplay, retention of veterans and options for higher difficulty may benefit the game on the long run. The downfall of this game happens when DE wants to push it as an IOS phone model. The game becomes simplistic, trivialized and even an insult to human intelligence with the worst AI ever. 

Well, that's how DE makes their money. 

 

[Frendh]

8 hours ago, DebrisFlow said:

A solution with a weekly limit of 2 earnable tokens to buy whatever 2 incarnons you want, from an omni-present shop, would both satisfy the requirement of diluting rewards over a long time span AND avoiding that frustrating idea of waiting up to 7 weeks for a missed opportunity while losing the progress of the previous week.

I am not opposed to this. I would not mind if they keep it the way it is and either adding more weeks or increasing the pool of 5 items per week to something that matches the new added amount of incarnons(if they add 30 new incarnons then the pool would be 10 instead of current 5).

[NecroPed]

12 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

You can buy credits and endos for absolutely horrid conversion rates with platinum. That ship has sailed.

From my understanding that was because they didn't want to do it but it was heavily requested by players. So I try not to hold that against DE. 

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

1 hour ago, NecroPed said:

From my understanding that was because they didn't want to do it but it was heavily requested by players. So I try not to hold that against DE. 

Those outrageous, new player trap prices were not requested by anyone. We shouldn't make excuses for stuff like that.

[Alpha_Tango]

Platinum and pay to skip works. I'll just wait and trade while waiting for the prices to come out.

[RichardKam]

Wow a company trying to make profit. So evil. Very capitalism.

[(XBOX)ONI LawIiet]

DE turn down the heat.

your froggies are noticing a little and boiling over a bit, you want a nice even simmer.

 

this is just the start, more aspirational content rewards hit the store eventually, arcanes, archon shards, kuva weapons, sister weapons. 

soon(tm)

and you thought you had less reason to log in and play now, just wait till you own all the games end game rewards before you even played it. 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

19 minutes ago, (XBOX)ONI LawIiet said:

this is just the start, more aspirational content rewards hit the store eventually, arcanes, archon shards, kuva weapons, sister weapons. 

Because it's not like Sister/Liches don't have there own trade value already right?

Oh.....wait.

1) You still have to complete the weekly Circuit to get the remaining rewards (which are generally worth getting)

2) Your not also buying the Mr required for weapons. Or Steel Path Access. Or bypassing the quests to get to the point where Incarnons are available.

This is a non issue. 

 

[(XBOX)ONI LawIiet]

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

Because it's not like Sister/Liches don't have there own trade value already right?

Oh.....wait.

 

some players are doing the content, and trading their rewards to other players who then ALSO have to go and play that content.

you trade for a guarantee at a specific lich that someone has already earned, to then go play the content and also earn it yourself.

 

that is a far cry from using mom and dads credit card swipe to get all the rewards before you even play the game. 

[0bsi]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)ONI LawIiet said:

you trade for a guarantee at a specific lich that someone has already earned, to then go also earn it yourself.

With the amount of people I see wanting someone to carry them to a Lich confrontation - I don't know how much "earning" some people are doing to get their Kuva/Tenet weapons.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2023-06-29 at 1:04 PM, Shotgunpilot said:

To help offer better ideas, each week for the circuit allow us to choose any of the 30(soon to be 35) adapters to play towards.  Can still only choose two a week so it would take the same time to unlock them all but would cut out the oh crap I missed the xxxx weapon this week, well now it will be 5 (soon to be 6) weeks before I can try again if life doesn't get in the way.

 

Edit: posted at the same times as other but I'm glad to see other with this idea, kinda like how with kuva and tenet weapons were truly random to start with what you got, now you can more so focused on what you want to farm towards.

I think this would ultimately be the case. The whole Incarnon Genesis project is still super fresh, especially in Warframe's case, so I wouldn't count your idea out.

[NecroPed]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Those outrageous, new player trap prices were not requested by anyone. We shouldn't make excuses for stuff like that.

Platinum bought credits and resources were literally requested by players. I remember seeing it. I also talked to people about it who wanted it. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

9 hours ago, Silligoose said:

I suppose it could be interesting. Some would breeze through it, whilst others may strugle.

DE has handled it pretty well in my opinion, barring some of the farm grinds as mentioned earlier.

To me it seems the p2w mechanic in Warframe does influence grinds and leads to some farming roads being far too long (eg Arcane R5 Arcane Energize), leads to faster power creep and leads to balance being neglected. 

It would be interesting to have know how the game would be handled if only cosmetics were purchasable. Updates would probably be less buggy and balance would likely be better, with band-aids being encountered less., since DE currently appears to be trying to monetize some of the fixes in one way or another, instead of just addressing the imbalance properly (eg they tend to release Augments for frames to help bring them up to speed instead of changing the frame's mechanics).

 

Pay to rush is what you keep describing. Pay 2 win requires necessity, ultimate advantage and exclusivtivity of power items through a pay wall. MR growth, star chart clearance, quest clearance, and SP access are all gates that prevent platinum from being an advantage. In essence, you have to be a vet to even access Incarnon Genesis content. An f2p player can reach that point at the exact same rate or faster...and there's absolutely NOTHING progression wise in the game a plat player can get that is out of reach of an f2p player who could simply trade item for item to get.  So, no, there's no winning with purchasing. 

In regards to the Incarnon platinum purchase idea, Reb clearly asked for feedback when she discussed the idea and outright asked if she's pushing it. I personally think it's fine if done as Pablo wants it but I will be watching out for their decision.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

41 minutes ago, NecroPed said:

Platinum bought credits and resources were literally requested by players. I remember seeing it. I also talked to people about it who wanted it. 

Jesus, that doesnt make their prices right. NOONE asked for those exchange rates.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)ONI LawIiet said:

that is a far cry from using mom and dads credit card swipe to get all the rewards before you even play the game. 

And yet you see Liches and Sisters in Trade Chat going for 150+ Platinum, depending on element and Ephemera. Is it really a far cry? Players are still spending here. Whether it's between players or in the Warframe market is irrelevant.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)ONI LawIiet said:

some players are doing the content, and trading their rewards to other players who then ALSO have to go and play that content.

you trade for a guarantee at a specific lich that someone has already earned, to then go play the content and also earn it yourself.

So why can't I do the EXACT same thing to earn platinum and then use it to buy the Incarnon Adapter(s) I want? 

Is it really an issue if that's possible? 

Thats why I don't have an issue with it. There's plenty of items you can acquire and then sell for platinum. Not to mention you still have to play the content to get all the other rewards in The Circuit (Vs just farming the lich to get 1 item)

And its not like an MR 1 player will have access to even purchase them. You have to buy them from Cavalero.

Do you really see a difference here? I mean in one instance your just doing a trade with another player and in the other it's available in the Warframe Market. 

There's nothing predatory about it. At all.

[ShogunGunshow]

I bet they'll offer the incarnons for like 50 plat over the nearest purchasable dollar amount. Just to really commit to that mobile-like exploitation.

[CatboyPrincess]

chiming in to say that the current system is bad

[Silligoose]

12 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Which is correct. 

Silligoose, I read in another thread the concept Pay to Skip or P2S. This is the classical route that DE uses imposing time gates, gear checks, time sinks and resource gates for their market. DE UNDERSTANDS very well how a working class middle age man works. They read tables of statistical data of an average person with a job, set of obligations and standard working hours in an eight am to five pm work. under those circumstances they estimate the time tables and the gates. 

I don't know if Pay to Win is precise but I do know there are speed runs that are based the ownership of RNG top rolls on the rivens or grolls. The faster the skip, the better for the collection of resources AND platinum. Makes sense the way you correlate the concept in this game. I think that, maybe I'm wrong, that P2W and P2S are correlated here somehow. 

People that works, would pay since their schedule is tight to working hours, housekeeping, and grocery store purchases among other maintenance tasks. Of course the game creation is NOT for free so DE makes their money in this Pay to Skip model where the strategy is the classical time saver. We architects have a time saver standards for building archetypes and building precedents with space estimates of use with different tables. Of course we paid a lot for such book. 

Video games ARE a dangerous distraction and a hurdle of responsibilities if it is not managed well. DE fabricated this alternative called Pay to Skip for instant gratification. DE knows their sociological study and the proper estimates of averages, Gaussian curves distributions and their surveying data quite well. These nerds do their homework to perfection consulting psychologists and experts in behavioral science for their marketing strategies. 

SEE REBECCA's background education and her Curriculum Vitae. That gives you a good hint with what type of people you are dealing with. This is FUNDAMENTAL for any practice. I study my subjects carefully and how they think. Everybody SHOULD DO the same to know where they are and where we are in the DARWINIAN Food chain. 

The reality of PAY TO SKIP and the excess of extrinsic are business models that worked for DE, granted. However the construction of the game around those parameters such as the GAAS F2P P2P structure doesn't provide a great game, just an average. It gets a bit aggravated when the P2S and P2W models are inserted in the structure everywhere. Yes Warframe is a game of numbers, RNG and harvesting. The excessive focus on the economical strategy hampers the quality and delivery of the game. However a good focus on intrinsic gameplay, retention of veterans and options for higher difficulty may benefit the game on the long run. The downfall of this game happens when DE wants to push it as an IOS phone model. The game becomes simplistic, trivialized and even an insult to human intelligence with the worst AI ever. 

Well, that's how DE makes their money. 

 

Haha I love that sprinkle with which you again made it abundantly clear you... ahem... dislike the AI 😂 

Terms such as "pay2progress and "pay2skip" are terms used in lieu of p2w in an attempt to move a p2w game away from the stigma associated with the term p2w. I've come across it for over a decade now. I've seen it used by devs/publishers of certain p2w games, such as EA or Kixeye for that very reason, whilst also trying to obfuscate the business model and of course some fans of certain games cling to whatever replacement term is used, because they do not want to admit the game they enjoy has p2w elements or is p2w.

I agree with your assessment regarding DE's approach to monetization and their reliance on analytics when it comes to decision-making. We've heard them touch on the subject in some devstreams or social media, where they discuss balance changes, strongly focussing on usage/popularity as a reason for the nerfs/buffs instead of strongly focussing on something that matters when it comes to balance, such as asset performance. We see the impact of analytics not only in decisions discussed, but it is all over the place in the game. People may question why certain resources/assets on the Market are priced what they are - because it makes money. Credits are sold in a package of 50k for 25 plat, because people buy it at that price. That price point is no accident and is the result of analytics. Keeping the game p2p 

I believe a greater focus on intrinsic play, retention of veterans and options regarding difficulty to serve the varied spectrum of players would serve the game well in the long run as well and I also have the concern that the game is being dumbed down for the mobile market. 

At the end of the day it seems DE's decisions are largely based on analytics, not actual player feedback, however, they will cite player as backing for their decisions, since there will invariably be people who agree with whatever they decide to do.